Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Mr Pigeon said:
It's things like this that make me believe people are going over the top with some of their criticism.



https://www.spin.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-final-insult-was-tyrion-messing-with-the-chairs/

So Tyrion making a bunch of chairs look neat and professional, then posing before his council just come in and start smacking them about has some kind of hidden meaning. What a load of pretentious feckwittery.
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Just thought it was a call back to the scene where he dragged a chair noisily across the room.

ie he had contempt for the meetings and now he doesn’t.

That all got set against the same shit being discussed as at the first council scenes in the show.

Everything changes. Everything stays the same.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Fan service is when the writers deliberately put things in even if it goes against the established logic of the show, purely to satisfy a section of the viewers.

Bronn getting what he did was exactly that, it's an accurate description. He was very popular with the fans so he ended up on the council, even though it's completely illogical for that to actually happen.

What else would you call it? Natural plot progression, really?
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Yep. Bronn is only in because of his Q score. Pointless character probably only kept around for screen time.

Supposedly this is why they forced in the hilariously bad Dorne plots in the way they did. They needed work for the actors involved to keep them around.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Fan service is when the writers deliberately put things in even if it goes against the established logic of the show, purely to satisfy a section of the viewers.

Bronn getting what he did was exactly that, it's an accurate description. He was very popular with the fans so he ended up on the council, even though it's completely illogical for that to actually happen.

What else would you call it? Natural plot progression, really?
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Did Bronn becoming Master of Coin make no sense though?

Bran as King was the unorthodox choice. Can't produce any heirs, can't fight, can't even walk to the toilet. With the North becoming independent he was from a house that no longer swore fealty to the monarch, and he marked the first monarch of an age where hereditary rule had been abolished.

Brienne was presumably the first woman not only to be in, but to lead the Kingsguard.

Davos as Master of Ships makes some sense, but he's basically a smuggler who happens to have kept good company at the right time.

Tyrion as hand makes some sense, but his history certainly doesn't make him the most traditional of choices.

Even Sam is a bit of an odd choice for Grand Maester, I think, because it seems unlikely that he completed the same level of training at The Citadel as any of his predecessors.

Bronn worked his way from being a blade for hire to a Lord of Westeros, so while not the most obvious candidate for Master of Coin, he's proven he knows how to sniff out a source of cash, which is basically his job.

It was a council of misfits led by a misfit King, and perfectly fitting with the changes made to the rule of Westeros.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Not every decision was fan service, but yes a load of it was thrown in at the end. Bronn becoming Lord of the Reach being the key example of that, D&D did it purely because he was a popular character.

It was shitty writing, people are calling a spade a spade. This is a discussion thread about game of thrones, people think it's shit, they're going to say they think it's shit. It's literally like going in to a match thread after a 5-0 loss and posting some pointless comment like 'omg you guys should quit your day job look at how insightful my comment is cos you're not pro managers so can't criticise!!'.

Nobody feels superior, they just think it's shit and are hella' disappointed that 8 years of watching their favourite show has ended in a bag of absolute shite. Nobody is claiming they could do better, just that writers paid millions of pounds should be able to.

Jon's ending was fine, it wasn't sad at all. He gets to feck off North where he's happiest, he pets Ghost and goes adventuring with Tormund.
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The match day comment is meaningless and obviously over the top, it’s already been pointed that art is subjective, a 5-0 score line hardly is.

There’s also plenty claiming they could do better, I’ve seen numerous ‘what they should have done..’ posts.

I was disappointed at bran being chosen, I was agitated waiting for someone to pipe up that jon was the real heir. It caused drama though and it was one of a million ways it could have ended.

Like I said earlier, I found the Tyrion and Sansa bits strange but I wouldn’t just come in here screaming crap writing, shit d & d or whatever else that I’ve read here a million times. I’d like to question it and not in a sarcastic way, do that in this thread and it would be met with laughing smileys and crap writing from Season so and so what do expect nonsense.
 
Alex99 said:
Did Bronn becoming Master of Coin make no sense though?
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Yes. He's a sellsword, being shrewd at selling his services does not remotely qualify you to manage an entire Kingdom's finances. He has no formal education or talent for bookkeeping (which is what most of the role will entail) and has no idea how to manage funds, why would you appoint him to that role? He's been a cutthroat his entire life and worked his way up by being a ruthless bastard who was prepared to kill whoever stood in his way, at one point saying that he'd only ask how much if asked to kill a newborn baby.

He's an awful choice as Master of Coin, and an awful choice as Lord of the Reach. He's a fun character but one who has been clearly established as a bad human being who is wily but not intelligent or educated, there's no way the fellow Lords in the Reach will just accept some random common assassin taking power. It's all just silliness.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
The match day comment is meaningless and obviously over the top, it’s already been pointed that art is subjective, a 5-0 score line hardly is.

There’s also plenty claiming they could do better, I’ve seen numerous ‘what they should have done..’ posts.

I was disappointed at bran being chosen, I was agitated waiting for someone to pipe up that jon was the real heir. It caused drama though and it was one of a million ways it could have ended.

Like I said earlier, I found the Tyrion and Sansa bits strange but I wouldn’t just come in here screaming crap writing, shit d & d or whatever else that I’ve read here a million times. I’d like to question it and not in a sarcastic way, do that in this thread and it would be met with laughing smileys and crap writing from Season so and so what do expect nonsense.
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No it isn't. You're criticising people for criticising something, it's stupid. People are allowed to say it's shit without being expert writers.

People are also allowed to have their own opinion on what could/should have happened, that doesn't mean they think they're superior writers to d&d (writing is a lot more than just general plot points) but that they think it went down a disappointing route. Do you honestly think you have to be a Hollywood level script writer to improve on what they did?

Oh man it caused drama, I guess you're right and we should all shut up about D&D. It was objectively very shit writing and a horrible way to end the show, hence why most people (reviewers or otherwise) are calling it shit and it will go down as one of the most disappointing ends to a major show ever. People have a legitimate right to be pissed off when they watch something for 7 years and invest time in to it and then two lazy tits shrug their shoulders and pull the *FIVE WEEKS LATER* bullshit in the finale.

Some of the actors deserve huge praise (Clarke for those final 2 episodes, Dinklage was immense in the finale, Coster Waldau incredible, Lena Headey a class act, among others) and some of the visuals and music were incredible. The writing however should absolutely be called out for what it is, they made a mess of the final season. Was it the worst thing ever or a disaster? No, but it was a huge step down from the established quality levels and there's a reason it's left a tiny minority satisfied.

I really don't think D&D care if people call them crap writers. They're millionaires who are now off to work on Star Wars. They're actually not bad at all and have written good stuff in the past, they just blatantly got lazy and rushed their way through the final season, so they deserve criticism.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
No it isn't. You're criticising people for criticising something, it's stupid. People are allowed to say it's shit without being expert writers.

People are also allowed to have their own opinion on what could/should have happened, that doesn't mean they think they're superior writers to d&d (writing is a lot more than just general plot points) but that they think it went down a disappointing route. Do you honestly think you have to be a Hollywood level script writer to improve on what they did?

Oh man it caused drama, I guess you're right and we should all shut up about D&D. It was objectively very shit writing and a horrible way to end the show, hence why most people (reviewers or otherwise) are calling it shit and it will go down as one of the most disappointing ends to a major show ever. People have a legitimate right to be pissed off when they watch something for 7 years and invest time in to it and then two lazy tits shrug their shoulders and pull the *FIVE WEEKS LATER* bullshit in the finale.

Some of the actors deserve huge praise (Clarke for those final 2 episodes, Dinklage was immense in the finale, Coster Waldau incredible, Lena Headey a class act, among others) and some of the visuals and music were incredible. The writing however should absolutely be called out for what it is, they made a mess of the final season. Was it the worst thing ever or a disaster? No, but it was a huge step down from the established quality levels and there's a reason it's left a tiny minority satisfied.

I really don't think D&D care if people call them crap writers. They're millionaires who are now off to work on Star Wars. They're actually not bad at all and have written good stuff in the past, they just blatantly got lazy and rushed their way through the final season, so they deserve criticism.
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I probably agree with you in a round a bout way, I just can’t take to the massive ott reaction to it though and laughing at others who are not disappointed with it.

Being all dramatic about investing 7 years of time into it :lol: it’s 45 minutes or so once a week for a few weeks over years, hardly tied down to a full time job with it. Each to their own though, you clearly seem to have got more invested in it than myself, no dramas.

And as you say, youre ‘allowed’ to think what ever you like, maybe have that in mind.
 
Anyway, why was Sansa the only one allowed to rule her own land, was it because the others had already said aye. Maybe they should have questioned it before agreeing with Tyrion, he’d convince anyone of anything.

Also, the Bronn thing and council at the end, was it purposely so bad to show that after all that fighting, wars and death that everyone thinks is for the best, it’s still the same old shambles of a table deciding things, only they exaggerated it.
 
Perhaps the only reason Bran accepted his role as king is so he could allow Tyrion become the real "ruler" as his hand and with some guidance from Bran.

He knew the other lords would never choose Tyrion to be king but instantly asked him to be Hand, then at the small council meeting he left Tyrion to handle it. I don’t think it was as simple as Bran just wanting to be King out of nowhere.

Plus the fact Bran has been seen staring at Tyrion all throughout this season, he was definitely up to something and is always a step ahead of the crowd.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I probably agree with you in a round a bout way, I just can’t take to the massive ott reaction to it though and laughing at others who are not disappointed with it.

Being all dramatic about investing 7 years of time into it :lol: it’s 45 minutes or so once a week for a few weeks over years, hardly tied down to a full time job with it. Each to their own though, you clearly seem to have got more invested in it than myself, no dramas.

And as you say, youre ‘allowed’ to think what ever you like, maybe have that in mind.
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People get invested in to tv shows and don't like when they turn to shit, it's disappointing. Obviously it's not a full time job or a huge deal, but fiction can be pretty important to people and this has been the case forever. Like Tyrion says in the episode, stories are important.

Of course people are allowed to think what they like. Personally I can't fathom why anyone who sat through and watched the quality of the earlier seasons can be satisfied by how it tailed off, but opinions are opinions.
 
I don’t understand why some posters are making sarcy remarks when people are rightfully criticising the way they ended this. They have failed to even come up with an ending that is not even half way better than the ones concocted in this thread by various posters. That is pitiful. We should have known the writers were going to feck this up from the moment they spent dilly dallying the first two episodes.

Probably the most complex book>TV adaptation ever and they spent the first two episodes on literally nothing. I can’t even remember, point being we all knew they would get it wrong we just wanted to believe they would spring a magical surprise and create an excellent finale. Without longing out my post @SquishyMcSquish has already highlighted how I pretty much feel. The feckers didn’t need two years for that btw :lol::lol: give over! might as well have released this bang average shite last year.
 
ArmandTamzarian said:
Perhaps the only reason Bran accepted his role as king is so he could allow Tyrion become the real "ruler" as his hand and with some guidance from Bran.

He knew the other lords would never choose Tyrion to be king but instantly asked him to be Hand, then at the small council meeting he left Tyrion to handle it. I don’t think it was as simple as Bran just wanting to be King out of nowhere.

Plus the fact Bran has been seen staring at Tyrion all throughout this season, he was definitely up to something and is always a step ahead of the crowd.
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The way the show is dumbed now, don’t you think they would have thrown more clues at the audience? Plus Bran saying ‘what do you think I came all this way for?’ is pretty telling imo.
 
kouroux said:
What's the reasoning behind keeping Tyrion alive for the unsullied ?
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This is what I find bizarre. They were murdering non-descript Lannister soldiers on the street just because they happened to fight for Cersei, yet suddenly only arrested Jon and detained Tyrion before demanding the leaders of the other major houses all came to KL for a conference.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Anyway, why was Sansa the only one allowed to rule her own land, was it because the others had already said aye. Maybe they should have questioned it before agreeing with Tyrion, he’d convince anyone of anything.

Also, the Bronn thing and council at the end, was it purposely so bad to show that after all that fighting, wars and death that everyone thinks is for the best, it’s still the same old shambles of a table deciding things, only they exaggerated it.
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It was a bit baffling. Why didn't the Iron Islands and Dorne want independence?

And why was Sansa being such a dick to her uncle? He willingly joined Robb's kingdom and fought for him when he could have stayed neutral. He covered for Robb's marital feck up. He spent years as a prisoner because he'd fought for the Starks. And now he's sat around a council where no one else seems willing to assume the responsibility.

I mean...if anything, he was right! Of all the major lords, he probably was the most logical choice. Tyrion is despised by most, Sansa's still young and new to ruling, Yara's probably too disconnected from everyone else due to being from the Iron Islands, Gendry was a bastard who'd just been given his lordship by someone who then proceeded to lose the plot, Bronn's a cutthroat who's just been elevated, and no one knows who the bloke from Dorne was.
 
Cheesy said:
and no one knows who the bloke from Dorne was
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:lol: There were a few other randomers there, the only one I recognized was Royce from the Vale. Wonder who the others were meant to be?
 
Should have been Robin from the Vale. He already knew timelines so it made most logical sense.

Cheesy said:
It was a bit baffling. Why didn't the Iron Islands and Dorne want independence?
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especially when Yara asked for it from Dany.
 
2cents said:
:lol: There were a few other randomers there, the only one I recognized was Royce from the Vale. Wonder who the others were meant to be?
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I'm guessing there were maybe one or two Reach lords there who ended up being completely okay with their new overlord being a cutthroat they don't know and who's never lived there before, and who got said position from someone who'd been Daenerys' hand at the time, the same Daenerys who's now dead.

But, yeah, even a name for yer man from Dorne would have sufficed. The show basically ignored 7/9 regions for the last season and so it felt ridiculous when Edmure/Robin etc all suddenly showed up again.
 
Cheesy said:
I'm guessing there were maybe one or two Reach lords there who ended up being completely okay with their new overlord being a cutthroat they don't know and who's never lived there before, and who got said position from someone who'd been Daenerys' hand at the time, the same Daenerys who's now dead.

But, yeah, even a name for yer man from Dorne would have sufficed. The show basically ignored 7/9 regions for the last season and so it felt ridiculous when Edmure/Robin etc all suddenly showed up again.
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Sylar said:
Should have been Robin from the Vale. He already knew timelines so it made most logical sense.
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I only just realized that weird young guy beside Royce was Robin all grown up. When's the last time we saw him, must be back in season 4?
 
Sylar said:
especially when Yara asked for it from Dany.
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Aye, it was her one specific condition for joining with Daenerys!

But in this same scene she goes from wanting Jon dead for killing her to suddenly being cool with one of Jon's closest family members ruling Westeros, and said king being backed up by someone else who betrayed her.
 
2cents said:
I only just realized that weird young guy beside Royce was Robin all grown up. When's the last time we saw him, must be back in season 4?
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I feel like there were a couple of scenes with him in Seasons 5/6. Littlefinger turning up in the Vale at some point to get their help for Sansa for the North etc. Felt like his incompetence and strangeness would at least turn out to be a small plot point, but nah.
 
Cheesy said:
I'm guessing there were maybe one or two Reach lords there who ended up being completely okay with their new overlord being a cutthroat they don't know and who's never lived there before, and who got said position from someone who'd been Daenerys' hand at the time, the same Daenerys who's now dead.

But, yeah, even a name for yer man from Dorne would have sufficed. The show basically ignored 7/9 regions for the last season and so it felt ridiculous when Edmure/Robin etc all suddenly showed up again.
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Not like they ever had a choice? Like Bronn said, every great house started with someone who was simply better at killing everyone else. Tyrells used to be stewards when Gardeners were ruling the reach, and the founder of House Tyrell was a champion at sword fighting.
 
Moby said:
Not like they ever had a choice? Like Bronn said, every great house started with someone who was simply better at killing everyone else. Tyrells used to be stewards when Gardeners were ruling the reach, and the founder of House Tyrell was a champion at sword fighting.
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Well...yeah, but presumably they were backed up by Aegon, who had three dragons to destroy anyone who disagreed with him.

What's Bran got to assert his authority on any of the other regions? By all accounts the Northern armies were decimated to a point in the war and aren't going to want to fight down south. Why are the Reach cool with Bronn being their main lord? There are other houses who could quite easily press a strong claim in order to then offer fealty to Bran.
 
Think I'll rewatch from the beginning again. I hate fantasy type shows but this hooked me.
 
You do all realise the books are going to end the same way?
 
sullydnl said:
Thinking about it today, it wasn't as bad as I initially thought it was last night, when the words "Dexter" and "lumberjack" were leaping to mind.

I already liked everything up until the point the dragon fecked off. Now the final ending for the different characters is sitting better with me too. It's a good end to their individual stories, it just wasn't a particularly dramatic one. Really it was the summit and council scenes that screwed the episode for me though.

Where yesterday I thought the ending was straight up terrible, now I think the same basic endpoints could have been fine if they'd executed it better. Which is probably my complaint for the season as a whole really. I liked pretty much all the broad beats and set pieces but the way the writers carried us from one to the other was, well.....
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I'm the opposite.

Yesterday I thought... well at least it had a few good moments.

Today I can't remember what those were and I think it was just poo.
 
Cheesy said:
Well...yeah, but presumably they were backed up by Aegon, who had three dragons to destroy anyone who disagreed with him.

What's Bran got to assert his authority on any of the other regions? By all accounts the Northern armies were decimated to a point in the war and aren't going to want to fight down south. Why are the Reach cool with Bronn being their main lord? There are other houses who could quite easily press a strong claim in order to then offer fealty to Bran.
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Reach have no army left. Neither do Dorne. Bran or north has the biggest army as Sansa said.
 
Gambit said:
You do all realise the books are going to end the same way?
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Yep, exactly the same end. The journey would be a lot more detailed obviously but its easy to right stuff in a book as compared to filming it all especially at such a scale. But it will be fun watching the people outraging at the show with the whole 'at least we have the books to satisfy our imaginary theories' :lol:
 
Gambit said:
You do all realise the books are going to end the same way?
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Here's Martin writing yesterday:

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different?

Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.

I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to...
Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…
 
Moby said:
Reach have no army left. Neither do Dorne. Bran or north has the biggest army as Sansa said.
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Which brings up several other plotholes in itself. The Reach is meant to be an area the size of a country...but if there are no armies or major houses left who's governing it? If no one is, why has it not descended into anarchy? Like the Stormlands it's seemingly just been left vacant until someone's conveniently able to take over.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Simple answer there, the others have always been happy to be part of the six Kingdoms, it benefits them I’d imagine. The wild North on the other hand, more powerful than the rest hasn’t.
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Even the Iron Islanders?

Who seem to be constantly declaring independence?

And who are angry with the killing of their queen?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Why does every main character need to "impact the story in any game changing way" or not be in the show at all? Who makes these rules?!?
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If they're not impacting the story they should at least be interesting. Which Bran wasn't, he was boring as feck. And that's sort of the point of main characters isn't it? To me it appears logic makes these rules.
 
simonhch said:
Anyone else find it hilarious that Ser Davos suggested to the Unsullied they settle in empty lands and start their own house? A house they can’t populate because none of them have nuts.
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that is brilliant

did the writers forget? :lol:
 
Cheesy said:
Which brings up several other plotholes in itself. The Reach is meant to be an area the size of a country...but if there are no armies or major houses left who's governing it? If no one is, why has it not descended into anarchy? Like the Stormlands it's seemingly just been left vacant until someone's conveniently able to take over.
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It may well be in a local conflict, we don't know. Unless someone has enough resources to claim for the entire region, it won't enter the bigger picture and once someone with the backing of an army or in this case the king of the six kingdoms - who seemingly is blindly followed by the common man - takes it over it all just becomes same as before. It can be assumed that in the absence of the local lords, they directly report to the king/queen sitting in KL which was Cersie so far and right after her death, Bran was made king.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Simple answer there, the others have always been happy to be part of the six Kingdoms, it benefits them I’d imagine. The wild North on the other hand, more powerful than the rest hasn’t.
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There we go, I’ll happily go with that.

Although Yara wanted independence from Dany, she probably just didn’t mind a ruler like bran. He seemed pretty harmless in that chair to be fair, no wonder they all agreed, probably think he’s going to be a push over.
 
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