Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

They have shown Danny slowly turning mad/getting worse as the show goes on but to have her kill a million innocents is shocking. Obviously she has to die now.

I watched an episode from early season 5 last night where she feeds a random mereen noble man to the dragons after they attack the city and baristan selmy dies, she even says afterwards that he may have been innocent. I saw it differently with the context of who she becomes where as the first time I watched it, Id have thought she was justified. Now I can see she is on a ladder on madness, basically it's no different to what her father did to ned's father and brother that started the rebellion in the first place.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This episode got really low ratings on IMDB. I guess the 'team dany' fans can't handle the arc that's been obvious for age. Looks like Emilia Clarke was one of them too.
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Perhaps its just more people finally waking up to the fact that the show is ending badly? Many waved off the episode 3 critism because they didn't enjoy the white walker storyline assuming that the Throne storyline was going to end well. Reality checked this episode.

It's the usual critism for me, all style and very little substance. Very good television if you switch your brain off and enter Marvel Mode though.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This episode got really low ratings on IMDB. I guess the 'team dany' fans can't handle the arc that's been obvious for age. Looks like Emilia Clarke was one of them too.
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Really? It was the one I enjoyed the most in this season. I might even watch it again.

The more I think about it the more I like it. Don't have a problem with Jamie and Cersei's ending. It seemed fitting and comfortably subverting expectations but not for the sake of it even though they wasted Lena Headey this season. Jamie and Tyrion had a nice scene together. Ditto The Hound and Arya. The visuals and just the sheer chaos of Drogon destroying Kings Landing though was incredible.

Intrigued to find out how they get through Drogon next week if anyone wants to get to Dany and also what happens with Jon after Greyworm gave him the stink eye for not attacking.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This episode got really low ratings on IMDB. I guess the 'team dany' fans can't handle the arc that's been obvious for age. Looks like Emilia Clarke was one of them too.
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No, I think its a combination of a bunch of things, including
  1. The master of whispers becoming very dumb ("hey john, wanna commit treason")
  2. Throwing away Jamie's redemption arc
  3. Making grey worm become a maniac
  4. Tyrion is now a moron
  5. Arya nearly dies about 10 times, but every time just makes it out
  6. Oh look, a horse
  7. Inconsistencies in scorpion power/accuracy
  8. Dany going mental in the space of about 4 scenes. People may say there's been build up to this, but there really hasn't. Losing some people you love doesn't turn you genocidal. Genuine madness might, but that wasn't nearly developed enough. Even Anakin Skywalker's turn was handled better than this.
  9. John Snow is an overpaid extra ("She's my queen", "I don't want it", repeat)
  10. Cersei getting a private hidden death
  11. Jamie and Euron's fight added 0 to the plot, Euron could have died on the ships and Jamie would have died underground anyway
  12. Jamie gets stabbed twice near his lungs, struggles to crawl. Then wow, can run, climb a bazillion stairs etc.
  13. Jamie ignoring the fact that Cersei literally took out a contact on his life. I DO understand the 'but he loves her', but I'm sorry, if someone actually tries to murder you, you generally don't go rushing to them a few days layer.
I don't think any really minds Dany going mental, but handle it properly.
 
Worst rating on rottentomatoes:lol:. Episode 5 was actually the best episode this season but then again, this season has been poor for GOT standards. Jamie’s ending was feckin terrible, makes no sense he went back to Cersei after everything. Tyrion was meant to the smart one yet this season his decision making has been atrocious. Actually make that 2 seasons. We won’t even talk about Varys:lol:
Dany going insane at such a quick pace is unrealistic and has completely ruined her character. Some poor writing this season that’s for sure. Episode 4 was the worst so far in my opinion.

Positives - first 2 episodes actually had some wonderful heartwarming moments which I enjoyed. Episode 2 in particular was nice. The wildling fella continued being awesome. Arya killing the night king was a great scene, despite what others say. Theon’s final moments were just perfect, fully redeemed himself in my opinion. My favourite reunion was in fact Sansa & Theon. The destruction of king’s landing was really well done. Hound vs mountain was perfect.
 
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Cersei really didn't age well. Used to be attractive before the high sect maniacs got their hands on her.
 
Berbaclass said:
I don't believe that at all because if it was they wouldn't have totally butchered it as they have.

Ruthless and evil aren't exactly the same thing. Doesn't explain what she did at all. It was way out of character IMO.

I don't think she's shown any real signs of 'madness' which should have been shown if they were indeed going that route. I think she's shown the very opposite and shown over 7 seasons that she is willing to be 'good' when confronted with difficult choices. She has never once done anything evil. She's murdered people but never innocent people before.
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But at some point there is that moment that makes you completely insane.

It's not like Hitler (pardon the comparison) foreshadowed killing 6 million Jews by killing 2 million and then everyone was like "Oh he's proper insane". He did and said a ton of crazy shit, and then at one point he started having Jews killed.
 
Kapardin said:
You are missing a subtle point. The writers are trying to take a leaf out of Gandalf's quote that "Nothing was evil in the beginning, not even Sauron". It is true that Dany wanted to rule over everyone out of her compassion for others, but slowly she began to consider her own compassion and ability to be merciful as justification of her destiny to rule. Which in turn led to a lust for power that ironically made her cast aside the very morals which had convinced her she was an able ruler. It was helped by the death of her loved ones like the 2 dragons, Jorah, Missandei etc to the point that her whole life had no more meaning other than seeking the throne. Then Jon comes in with a legitimate claim to take away even that -- which totally unhinges her as she cannot believe it isn't her destiny to rule.

I agree that the writing has turned to shit for the most part this season, much like Theon's balls cut off to turn him into Reek, but they have actually done two things very well - the Hound's and Dany's arcs. Though if they had more time, they could have spaced out Dany's descent to madness further to make it more gradual, but this isn't unacceptable as far as character arcs go.

One thing which was needless was the surrender. If the army of King's Landing had refused to surrender and Dany, not being content with killing soldiers, had burnt down innocents, it would have the same impact anyway and a plausible demonstration of her madness. There was no need to make them surrender, as it seemed then that her rage was pointless as she likes people who bend the knee to her.
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Slowly? ;)

It pretty much happened in the space of what... two episodes? And going from "I'm not here to burn your cities to the ground, that's Cersei" to "I'm burning every god damn thing I see" is a bit much isn't it?

I'm still a bit miffed how people think it all kinda makes sense cause of reasons... putting everything together it still feels very off. I wager it's going to be even worse next episode if Dany shows no regret and doubles down on her actions... will people still think that's a good arc then I wonder?

Anyways, I think GRRM will have something similar in mind... guess time will tell if he handles it any differently.
 
MJJ said:
He has been shown to be selfish, why would be come back to save Cersei?



Yes, why would you not have the scorpions loaded already when fighting a dragon? The scorpions went from being a big enough threat that missandei died to not even scratching drogon.
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Easy, he loves the fact that he impregnanted her and he was calling himself a king too
 
Anustart89 said:
But at some point there is that moment that makes you completely insane.

It's not like Hitler (pardon the comparison) foreshadowed killing 6 million Jews by killing 2 million and then everyone was like "Oh he's proper insane". He did and said a ton of crazy shit, and then at one point he started having Jews killed.
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I just think it was really poorly executed. Think they missed a trick by not including a closeup of her killing everyone with a mad look on her face.
 
Berbaclass said:
I just think it was really poorly executed. Think they missed a trick by not including a closeup of her killing everyone with a mad look on her face.
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Or that was intentional and we find out that Bran warged into Drogon and burnt everyone to make Daenerys look like a Mad Evil bitch allowing Jon to claim the Throne! Bran then winks at camera and pulls his face off to reveal himself as...
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This episode got really low ratings on IMDB. I guess the 'team dany' fans can't handle the arc that's been obvious for age. Looks like Emilia Clarke was one of them too.
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it's nothing to do with Team Dany or whatever. I've always thought she was a pretty meh character (especially because of the actress) and her arc has always been one of the boring ones. It's the fact that they completely fecked with her character in the space of half an episode, as well as other characters, and generally that the episode was really fecking dumb (but spectacular to watch).

I'd have no problem with her going mad queen if it actually made sense, but it really didn't.
 
MJJ said:
Her kingdom was over, he liked he impregnated a queen not Cersei.
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I think you're overcomplicating things, her Kingdom ws over but who knows what he was thinking, maybe he was planning ahead a rebellion.
Or maybe the sea current just drove him to that spot after barely surviving his ship exploding ?
 
DouLou said:
Slowly? ;)

It pretty much happened in the space of what... two episodes? And going from "I'm not here to burn your cities to the ground, that's Cersei" to "I'm burning every god damn thing I see" is a bit much isn't it?

I'm still a bit miffed how people think it all kinda makes sense cause of reasons... putting everything together it still feels very off. I wager it's going to be even worse next episode if Dany shows no regret and doubles down on her actions... will people still think that's a good arc then I wonder?

Anyways, I think GRRM will have something similar in mind... guess time will tell if he handles it any differently.
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This episode is a pretty good tool to reveal who is a truly brainwashed fan of the series.
Dany becoming evil isn't the issue, how fast it happened is and you explained it well.
It that doesn't bother viewers then it says it all
 
kouroux said:
I think you're overcomplicating things, her Kingdom ws over but who knows what he was thinking, maybe he was planning ahead a rebellion.
Or maybe the sea current just drove him to that spot after barely surviving his ship exploding ?
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But then why not take the boat there and row away?
 
Massive Spanner said:
it's nothing to do with Team Dany or whatever. I've always thought she was a pretty meh character (especially because of the actress) and her arc has always been one of the boring ones. It's the fact that they completely fecked with her character in the space of half an episode, as well as other characters, and generally that the episode was really fecking dumb (but spectacular to watch).

I'd have no problem with her going mad queen if it actually made sense, but it really didn't.
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It made sense. She had an history of mental illness in her family and suffered a massive amount of stress and loss in a short space of time. Those are the kind of conditions that can result in a breakdown in the predisposed.

OK it was rushed in the sense of showing her being broken but the arc was foreshadowed for a long time.

Thought Jamie's death was correct too. He would never give up Cerci his twin, mother of his children and the love of his life. Their relationship was qualitatively unique and they were always going to die together and alone.

I think it's just a case of people investing in cool dude Jamie becoming a nice fella but his bond with Cerci would never be bettered or broken.

The brief sidestep to Brienne was pointless, granted.
 
My thoughts:

Love the opener where Varys tells a girl to get the feck back in the kitchen :lol:

The episode as a whole was very entertaining

Jamie and cersei deserved better deaths but great rop-a-dope in her line of dying by the hands of her lover

Dany went from breaker of chains to burner of children too quick. They should have longed that out more. She's great in this new mode

Mountain v Hound was great

Still no answer to Bran playing Raven simulator 5000 two eps ago

Euron aka Captain Jack sparrow is dead. Glad.

Best ep of the season so far.

As predicted by all, Dany is the final boss. Let's hope it's not Bron that kills her though.
 
kouroux said:
Euron is irrelevant anyway
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Killed two Sand Snakes
Killed a Dragon
Killed Daddy Greyjoy
Destroyed two fleets
Imprisoned two Characters
Stabbed Jaime Lannister twice

Say what you like about him, but he hasn't been irrelevant. Probably has one of the bigger kill counts in the entire series.
 
RedSky said:
Killed two Sand Snakes
Killed a Dragon
Killed Daddy Greyjoy
Destroyed two fleets
Imprisoned two Characters
Stabbed Jaime Lannister twice

Say what you like about him, but he hasn't been irrelevant. Probably has one of the bigger kill counts in the entire series.
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Irrelevant as in "will he be a memorable character ? " For me, not at all. I felt the urge to skip each of his scenes
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It made sense. She had an history of mental illness in her family and suffered a massive amount of stress and loss in a short space of time. Those are the kind of conditions that can result in a breakdown in the predisposed.

OK it was rushed in the sense of showing her being broken but the arc was foreshadowed for a long time.

Thought Jamie's death was correct too. He would never give up Cerci his twin, mother of his children and the love of his life. Their relationship was qualitatively unique and they were always going to die together and alone.

I think it's just a case of people investing in cool dude Jamie becoming a nice fella but his bond with Cerci would never be bettered or broken.

The brief sidestep to Brienne was pointless, granted.
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They spent seven seasons bigging her up as not being like her father, as being fair and just, as being basically the main protagonist of the show. I would've had no problem with them switching it on its head under the face of her losing so much etc. but the way they did it was stupid. They rushed it way too fast and with very little actual foresight or anything. Plenty of people I know who watch the show and don't seem to give a toss about all the other stupid plot devices that have occurred this season were really confused as to how the hell she just decided to start murdering tens of thousands of women and children in the city that just fecking surrendered that she's always wanted to rule!
 
Dirty Schwein said:
My thoughts:

Love the opener where Varys tells a girl to get the feck back in the kitchen :lol:

The episode as a whole was very entertaining

Jamie and cersei deserved better deaths but great rop-a-dope in her line of dying by the hands of her lover

Dany went from breaker of chains to burner of children too quick. They should have longed that out more. She's great in this new mode

Mountain v Hound was great

Still no answer to Bran playing Raven simulator 5000 two eps ago

Euron aka Captain Jack sparrow is dead. Glad.

Best ep of the season so far.

As predicted by all, Dany is the final boss. Let's hope it's not Bron that kills her though.
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Raven simulator won't be explained I think. Just brushed under the carpet
 
Massive Spanner said:
They spent seven seasons bigging her up as not being like her father, as being fair and just, as being basically the main protagonist of the show. I would've had no problem with them switching it on its head under the face of her losing so much etc. but the way they did it was stupid. They rushed it way too fast and with very little actual foresight or anything. Plenty of people I know who watch the show and don't seem to give a toss about all the other stupid plot devices that have occurred this season were really confused as to how the hell she just decided to start murdering tens of thousands of women and children in the city that just fecking surrendered that she's always wanted to rule!
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She lost her mind. She went 'mad'- the Mad Queen, a state of being commonly associated with irrationality.

Loads of people swear that they will escape the shadow of their parents vices and bad behaviour but end up repeating them.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
She lost her mind. She went 'mad'- the Mad Queen, a state of being commonly associated with irrationality.

Loads of people swear that they will escape the shadow of their parents vices and bad behaviour but end up repeating them.
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Because of what? A few fecking bells sounding? We'd seen nothing prior to that to suggest she lost her mind!

She lost her mind at that moment because the writers wanted a cool battle sequence and for Jon to be the one to take the throne, basically. Because that's all season eight is, characters doing really dumb, inexplicable things so that they can reach the right destinations and close out plots.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Why does she have to behave in such a linear way? Why couldn't she have some echos of conscience somewhere inside her to cause the pause?

Surely humans are much more complicated than you seem to imply here.
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Now I don't follow. We see a pretty normal battle with enemy forces and assets being destroyed (very easily... but that's that). But when the City signs its surrender, she suddenly starts torching people indiscriminately. Where is there an indication for pause against or cause for this behavior?
 
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