Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Lyricist said:
*mad queen theory*
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Your story could work in principle, but several key points are simply not there in the show or contradict what we have seen. Why should she hate Westeros and why should westeros people, especially the populace of king's landing, hate her? There has been no interaction between her and the common people of Westeros. It's not the common people who have killed her dragon and her friend, it's the ironborn at Cersei's order and Cersei's Zombie at her order.
Opposed to that, the common people have to hate Cersei, deeply. This is another thing the show has ignored completely - Cersei blowing up the sept of Baelor (together with half of all plotlines). Is everybody just cool with this huge act of blasphemy? In his last pointless negotiation, even Tyrion says to Cersei 'They hate you and you hate them'. The way things stand, a scenario similar to that in Essos, where Daenerys is seen by the people as the savior from tyrannical rule, makes simply much more sense.
 
One thing I have to give to Martin ( I assume the big decisions are still all his) is how wrong people guess for the most part what the outcomes will be. Cersei perishing in the rubble was a distant thought to favorites "she will be killed by Jamie, Arya, Tyrion etc"
 
DouLou said:
@Lyricist I commend your passionate defense of shit writing :lol:

Personally think Arya, Hound, Cersei, Jamie, Jon were all handled decently. But the razing of KL is and always will be completely daft.

As I've said before, this is the same Dany that cried and locked up her children when they killed a farmers child. The same Dany that always tried to be just and punish the wicked. She also offered mercy to those who would join her cause. She spoke about how she isn't here to burn down cities. She's really never once harmed someone who you could say is innocent, (maybe like one bloke?). She's only ever punished those who committed atrocities. So yeah, as much as you are trying... it is shit writing and she hasn't given any indication she could ever do that. Like I said, having her burn down the red keep killing Cersei and those civilians Cersei surrounded herself being collateral damage with would have been somewhat believable, but just going around killing most the population... come on now. Baffles me how people are defending it.

It's quite clear to be that with only 6 episodes left they had to do something dramatic, so now they've set it up for Dany to be killed. They couldn't have done that if she just burned a few people through collateral damage, they needed to make her go full Tyrant. So yeah, sow a few seeds that her rule might be undermined by Jons claim, kill her best friend for a bit of grief mixed in and hey presto, our Dragon Queen can now roast a bunch of kids cause surely that's enough reason too... right! Nevermind that it goes against everything she's been about for 7 seasons... she's the daughter of the mad King! She's grieving! She's angry! Nevermind that she's already won the war for christ sake :lol:



Hilarious how D&D really just can't write for shit. What the feck does he mean "Make this personal". This is the writing you are defending...
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You are missing the point entirely - this is not that same Dany - so much shit has happened she has completely changed from that person.
 
RoyH1 said:
One thing I have to give to Martin ( I assume the big decisions are still all his) is how wrong people guess for the most part what the outcomes will be. Cersei perishing in the rubble was a distant thought to favorites "she will be killed by Jamie, Arya, Tyrion etc"
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I thought that was great - it was a curve ball and much more realistic a death than your typical evil vs good fight that would have been entirely generic.
 
balaks said:
I thought that was great - it was a curve ball and much more realistic a death than your typical evil vs good fight that would have been entirely generic.
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I would have loved if Arya faced her up ,gave her a mean and just before proceeding giving a speech, a huge rock falls on Cersei :D Tbh, considering the destruction of the Red Keep, it makes sense to have some characters die in it
 
As for Dany burning a city, fanboys will justify with the same thing they use to justify plot holes throughout this show and others : "character development " :lol:
 
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Any chance that Bran knows that the only way Dany and her Dragon can be defeated is with an equal foe?

The last night king was a vain psychopath before being created by the children of the forest.

Maybe a new night kink must be created using Jon Snow so he is inherently good this time.
 
DouLou said:
@Lyricist I commend your passionate defense of shit writing :lol:

Personally think Arya, Hound, Cersei, Jamie, Jon were all handled decently. But the razing of KL is and always will be completely daft.

As I've said before, this is the same Dany that cried and locked up her children when they killed a farmers child. The same Dany that always tried to be just and punish the wicked. She also offered mercy to those who would join her cause. She spoke about how she isn't here to burn down cities. She's really never once harmed someone who you could say is innocent, (maybe like one bloke?). She's only ever punished those who committed atrocities. So yeah, as much as you are trying... it is shit writing and she hasn't given any indication she could ever do that. Like I said, having her burn down the red keep killing Cersei and those civilians Cersei surrounded herself being collateral damage with would have been somewhat believable, but just going around killing most the population... come on now. Baffles me how people are defending it.

It's quite clear to be that with only 6 episodes left they had to do something dramatic, so now they've set it up for Dany to be killed. They couldn't have done that if she just burned a few people through collateral damage, they needed to make her go full Tyrant. So yeah, sow a few seeds that her rule might be undermined by Jons claim, kill her best friend for a bit of grief mixed in and hey presto, our Dragon Queen can now roast a bunch of kids cause surely that's enough reason too... right! Nevermind that it goes against everything she's been about for 7 seasons... she's the daughter of the mad King! She's grieving! She's angry! Nevermind that she's already won the war for christ sake :lol:



Hilarious how D&D really just can't write for shit. What the feck does he mean "Make this personal". This is the writing you are defending...
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I can hardly imagine George isn't meaning to have her do that as well though? The execution was a bit cack, but I doubt they came up with the general direction of the ending.
 
:lol::lol:
"I laughed as it was happening, because of all the Dany fangirls/-boys who will have to explain why they have a child murdering lunatic permanently inked on their bodies, or why they named their children after such."
 
Pexbo said:
Any chance that Bran knows that the only way Dany and her Dragon can be defeated is with an equal foe?

The last night king was a vain psychopath before being created by the children of the forest.

Maybe a new night kink must be created using Jon Snow so he is inherently good this time.
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Surely Jon could just kill her 1v1?

As for the dragon, tough luck now that Jack Sparrow and his scorpions are gone.
 
MJJ said:
Explain the logic behind euron and Jamie's fight

Or the iron fleet not having the fecking scorpions ready like seriously you guys have one job.
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She dropped from the sky (obscured by good and sunlight from what I remember) and got into close quarters fighting mate. She got the drop on them this time rather than the reverse last time (where the dragons had her at range and she had to close the distance without getting hit).

They are ballistae not gun turrets, what are they supposed to do up close? In the carnage they make a point of showing her whizzing around in CQ. Honestly, not an issue here....

As for JL he's got one hand and Euron is a prat.... Wasn't expecting stunts, martial arts and acrobatics were you? Underwhelming? Yes maybe.... JLs death was worst.
 
RoyH1 said:
One thing I have to give to Martin ( I assume the big decisions are still all his) is how wrong people guess for the most part what the outcomes will be. Cersei perishing in the rubble was a distant thought to favorites "she will be killed by Jamie, Arya, Tyrion etc"
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I highly doubt any of those decisions are his. Getting killed by rubble is a far cry away from the masterfully crafted deaths of epic characters such as Ned, Robb, Tywin, Joffrey and Oberyn.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Stannis burned people for no other reason than the red woman told him to.
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All this recent hyping up of Stannis is hilarious. He had the charisma of a turd, constantly made shit decisions, lacked morals and had the sex appeal of a Tory. He was a boring character.
 
afrocentricity said:
She dropped from the sky (obscured by good and sunlight from what I remember) and got into close quarters fighting mate. She got the drop on them this time rather than the reverse last time (where the dragons had her at range and she had to close the distance without getting hit).

They are ballistae not gun turrets, what are they supposed to do up close? In the carnage they make a point of showing her whizzing around in CQ. Honestly, not an issue here....

As for JL he's got one hand and Euron is a prat.... Wasn't expecting stunts, martial arts and acrobatics were you? Underwhelming? Yes maybe.... JLs death was worst.
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They diid not even have the scorpions loaded, like you are in a war. You are anticipating an attack and you can't have your only weapon loaded? In total, they fired one bolt instead of 30 compared to last episode.

Euron could easily have escaped but chose to come back to fight JL? It makes no sense.
 
padr81 said:
Especially as there was wildfire stashed all over the city, they could have had Dany burn the red keep and a chain of wildfire go off wrecking the city.
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I guess the point is that she's gone mad? No point looking for reasonable behaviour from a mad person....

Anyway I'm out, lot of unnecessary nitpicking going on.
 
My predictions for the final season re: Arya and Sam:

The faceless men come collecting their due - To have Arya kill, not Dany, but Drogon. And Sam's gonna help her do it as an agent of the Maesters, since magic is most likely going to disappear again when the last dragon dies and we can all start a new age of science and scholarship.

Tyrion sorts out Dany. Jon does what is right, regardless of how stupid or smart this may be.
 
kouroux said:
:lol: This is funny.
Those clowns were made out to be the toughest mercenaries and how they got erased was hilarious
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I thought that scene was brilliant. The captain of the Golden Company, all proud and fearless on his beautiful horse, 5 seconds later, gone.
 
MJJ said:
They diid not even have the scorpions loaded, like you are in a war. You are anticipating an attack and you can't have your only weapon loaded? In total, they fired one bolt instead of 30 compared to last episode.

Euron could easily have escaped but chose to come back to fight JL? It makes no sense.
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It was a coincidence, I think he was coming back to get Cersei and found Jaime in his way
 
MJJ said:
They diid not even have the scorpions loaded, like you are in a war. You are anticipating an attack and you can't have your only weapon loaded? In total, they fired one bolt instead of 30 compared to last episode.

Euron could easily have escaped but chose to come back to fight JL? It makes no sense.
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You saw them loading the Scorpions. If they arev then shown reloading them obviously they've been shooting them. Personally I don't need every shot to be shown.... I'm sure they fired a lot more than 30 shots, in amongst the panic and chaos.

Euron came back to fight JL? He knew JL was going to be there? Or he was going back to Cercei and bumped into JL? Looked like the latter to me...

Y'all getting carried away here....
 
MJJ said:
They diid not even have the scorpions loaded, like you are in a war. You are anticipating an attack and you can't have your only weapon loaded? In total, they fired one bolt instead of 30 compared to last episode.

Euron could easily have escaped but chose to come back to fight JL? It makes no sense.
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Its laughable, but some people say its good TV so they turn a blind eye to the utter trash plot and script now. All the characters have became unlikebale and devoid of personality since the books ended. Its clearly obvious that Martin simply gave a very sparce vision of what was going to happen and D&D did bugger all writing round it and just hit on his key points.
 
The scene between Jaime and Euron could have made more sense of Euron saw him and Cersei embracing him and Cersei mentioning the child is Jaimes not Eurons.

Euron having suffered a fatal would knocks out Jaime cold and ties him up or something whilst he chokes Cersei to death (thus fulfilling the Valonquar prophecy).

Then Jaime somehow gets free and he n Euron have a fight to the death. Not great but plot wise makes more sense.

Or even opposite way round - Jaime sees Euron embrace Cersei and mentions the child and implies no it is his and Even though it is really Jaimes in his rage he kills Euron and Cersei (by choking her).

Arya arrives on the scene to see Cersei has already been killed and runs back to where the Mountain and Hound were fighting, the Mountain is getting the better of both of them and is about to kill Arya only for Hound to sacrifice his life and push the Mountain and himself off the building and fall into the fire (cue emotional scene).
 
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kouroux said:
It was a coincidence, I think he was coming back to get Cersei and found Jaime in his way
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He has been shown to be selfish, why would be come back to save Cersei?

afrocentricity said:
You saw them loading the Scorpions. If they arev then shown reloading them obviously they've been shooting them. Personally I don't need every shot to be shown.... I'm sure they fired a lot more than 30 shots, in amongst the panic and chaos.

Euron came back to fight JL? He knew JL was going to be there? Or he was going back to Cercei and bumped into JL? Looked like the latter to me...

Y'all getting carried away here....
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Yes, why would you not have the scorpions loaded already when fighting a dragon? The scorpions went from being a big enough threat that missandei died to not even scratching drogon.
 
Bit of retrospect - while some performances can be criticised (Kit Harrington as Jon Snow, Emilia Clarke as Daenerys) and others perhaps a bit over-the-top praised (Peter Dinklage/Tyrion), I have to say:

Lena Headey and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Cersei and Jamie were fecking brilliant throughout all the seasons. Cersei as a multi-dimensional villain and Jamie's transformation from one-dimensional pretty boy villain to thoroughly gray and most interesting character in the show are probably the two most difficult roles to do justice in the show. I thought they pulled it off masterfully.

I also liked their ending. When the the two of them are together in private are probably the only times where Cersei and Jaime feel truly real as persons. Having them die together in a human moment when no one else are around felt very much appropriate to them. Also, Jaime always wanted to die "In the arms of the woman I love." So happy ending for him.
 
DouLou said:
@Lyricist I commend your passionate defense of shit writing :lol:

Personally think Arya, Hound, Cersei, Jamie, Jon were all handled decently. But the razing of KL is and always will be completely daft.

As I've said before, this is the same Dany that cried and locked up her children when they killed a farmers child. The same Dany that always tried to be just and punish the wicked. She also offered mercy to those who would join her cause. She spoke about how she isn't here to burn down cities. She's really never once harmed someone who you could say is innocent, (maybe like one bloke?). She's only ever punished those who committed atrocities. So yeah, as much as you are trying... it is shit writing and she hasn't given any indication she could ever do that. Like I said, having her burn down the red keep killing Cersei and those civilians Cersei surrounded herself being collateral damage with would have been somewhat believable, but just going around killing most the population... come on now. Baffles me how people are defending it.

It's quite clear to be that with only 6 episodes left they had to do something dramatic, so now they've set it up for Dany to be killed. They couldn't have done that if she just burned a few people through collateral damage, they needed to make her go full Tyrant. So yeah, sow a few seeds that her rule might be undermined by Jons claim, kill her best friend for a bit of grief mixed in and hey presto, our Dragon Queen can now roast a bunch of kids cause surely that's enough reason too... right! Nevermind that it goes against everything she's been about for 7 seasons... she's the daughter of the mad King! She's grieving! She's angry! Nevermind that she's already won the war for christ sake :lol:



Hilarious how D&D really just can't write for shit. What the feck does he mean "Make this personal". This is the writing you are defending...
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You are missing a subtle point. The writers are trying to take a leaf out of Gandalf's quote that "Nothing was evil in the beginning, not even Sauron". It is true that Dany wanted to rule over everyone out of her compassion for others, but slowly she began to consider her own compassion and ability to be merciful as justification of her destiny to rule. Which in turn led to a lust for power that ironically made her cast aside the very morals which had convinced her she was an able ruler. It was helped by the death of her loved ones like the 2 dragons, Jorah, Missandei etc to the point that her whole life had no more meaning other than seeking the throne. Then Jon comes in with a legitimate claim to take away even that -- which totally unhinges her as she cannot believe it isn't her destiny to rule.

I agree that the writing has turned to shit for the most part this season, much like Theon's balls cut off to turn him into Reek, but they have actually done two things very well - the Hound's and Dany's arcs. Though if they had more time, they could have spaced out Dany's descent to madness further to make it more gradual, but this isn't unacceptable as far as character arcs go.

One thing which was needless was the surrender. If the army of King's Landing had refused to surrender and Dany, not being content with killing soldiers, had burnt down innocents, it would have the same impact anyway and a plausible demonstration of her madness. There was no need to make them surrender, as it seemed then that her rage was pointless as she likes people who bend the knee to her.
 
onemanarmy said:
I just figured out Varys was trying to poison Dany. Shouldn't have taken me that long :lol:
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Same. I thought Tyrion was a bit of a cnut for dobbing him in when they'd both spoke about the same thing.

Because the tone of the show has changed to the point where every point is hammered home now it seems at odds with expecting the audience to connect the dots like you did with the earlier seasons. I mean even in this episode you had Tyrion state at least half a dozen times "stop attacking when the bells ring" so we knew where that would lead...
 
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