Only reasonable explanation has to be that he's living the Miley/Hannah Montana double life. He's Podrick around the Starks and Gendry around the Lannisters (or vice versa).
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
Only reasonable explanation has to be that he's living the Miley/Hannah Montana double life. He's Podrick around the Starks and Gendry around the Lannisters (or vice versa).
I think the idea is that she simply couldn't watch him die and in that moment wasn't prepared to do it.
The more time passes, the lower and more twisted Cersei is getting. She is truly becoming the 'Mad Queen' and the fact she's now willing to killing Jaime is a testament to that. She doesn't care any longer.
((i'm probably wrong and it is just an excuse))
Surely Danaerys is more likely to become the Mad Queen? I mean it comes from her dad, and her brother was also driven to erratic behaviour before being killed too.
Cersei's character has been more calculating than that up to now. I can see her being outwitted & being killed because of her decisions, I can't see her going mad though and I think that would be a cheap way for her to go too.
At least I don't want her to go in that way, because I quite like her
Ooh, dragon on dragon fight... I like.
I think that's spot on. It's a 'what can Jerome do this season?' brain-shart.
Anyway, nobody has commented on the new title sequence? I quite like it.
Surely Danaerys is more likely to become the Mad Queen? I mean it comes from her dad, and her brother was also driven to erratic behaviour before being killed too.
Cersei's character has been more calculating than that up to now. I can see her being outwitted & being killed because of her decisions, I can't see her going mad though and I think that would be a cheap way for her to go too.
At least I don't want her to go in that way, because I quite like her
I think Daenerys will possibly end up pretty unhinged, either by the revelation that Jon Snow is the true heir or because of some huge loss (her dragons?).
I don't know, I think Cersei is definitely headed in that direction. She's lost everything that means anything to her and everybody has abandoned her side. I think Tywin was spot on when he said that she thinks she's far more clever than she really is, because all of her plans have led her to total isolation and pretty much a doomed existence. She's totally consumed by vicious hatred and revenge and that could potentially drive her to total madness when she realises that she is going to lose.
Think about it, she's lost her children, her family are all either dead or have turned on her, and she's back to having to sleep with men (Euron) so she can cling to some sort of power. I honestly think she's at a point where she's lost all genuine grip on the reality around her (that moment where she's muttering about elephants after Euron and her do the do was strange) and can see her becoming even more erratic and cruel as this season goes on.
She is a good character though, and I do have sympathy for her. Tywin was obviously a completely unloving father who gave all his attention to Jaime, and she was married off to an awful man at a young age. It's completely understandable why she's become this awful person, very much a product of her environment and upbringing. She's experienced so much trauma though and I can simply see her unravelling as the season goes on, perhaps Qyburn will slowly start to realise what is happening and abandon her.
I feels like their trying to make him GOT's version of Jack Sparrow. They're trying to push the narrative that he's funny just because he's crazy/loopy. Even the dark eyes and sounding like he's drunk half the time. Not to mention he's also a pirate.
Cersei's character has been more calculating than that up to now. I can see her being outwitted & being killed because of her decisions, I can't see her going mad though and I think that would be a cheap way for her to go too.
At least I don't want her to go in that way, because I quite like her
Cersei is the best part of the show. I’ll be fuming if she’s offed so Snow/Aegon and/or Daenerys get to live happily ever after on the throne.
I like to think Euron has a major role in George's master plan, or else he really is just another Weiss and Benioff creation like Ramsay the uber villain.
Those are good points particularly about losing everything so far, I can't help but feel that the premonition from the witch has helped her prepare for this though? She was only really affected by Joffrey's death (but used it as an opportunity to attempt to kill Tyrion - which she wanted to do anyway), and more recently she's been affected by Jamie leaving to join up with the others.
I think (hope) her sleeping with Euron has a longer plan behind it, I don't think it was that simple and I would hope she has thought about the best way to use him to her advantage going forward.
She could definitely go mad due to the isolation, but we've seen her imprisoned and abandoned and she still fought through that - I just don't think that now she has the throne, this is the time for her to lose the plot. Or at least, if she does it will feel like a cheap end to a great character.
Aye, after rewatching the series i'm a big fan of hers - she's been one of the best characters.
Surely Danaerys is more likely to become the Mad Queen? I mean it comes from her dad, and her brother was also driven to erratic behaviour before being killed too.
Cersei's character has been more calculating than that up to now. I can see her being outwitted & being killed because of her decisions, I can't see her going mad though and I think that would be a cheap way for her to go too.
At least I don't want her to go in that way, because I quite like her
I love Cersei, together with Jaime they're probably my two favourite characters. The bit with her crying after Euron left her shows how desperate she is and i'm surprised people have overlooked that scene because it does show how vulnerable she is. She's either lost her baby already or something is up with her pregnancy (perhaps she never really was pregnant).
Its doesn't help that her actress is so dull and slow in everything she does. She looks alright yes, but her eyes and her voice lacks the brilliance of truly intelligent people. Like Arya for instance, who of course has been reduced to a hitman. But Tyrion has been truly downgraded. He offers nothing anymore, although we all like him.
She and Arya played Littlefinger in the last season with their (badly done) fake feud. I’m assuming that’s what Arya was making reference to when she said that to Jon.
Cersei’s between season miscarriage could have lead to a change of heart.
Or Qyburn has gone behind her back and she isn’t behind that plan at all.
Nothing wrong with arrogance but he’s so hammy as feck. No cool factor at all.. Whereas the book version is the only badass Greyjoy and the redeeming character from the Iron islands. Also remember the wimp they picked out to play Rhaegar in the flashback that was annoying too in previous season.
I guess so, but I would also argue the fact that the Witch's premonitions have all come true could be the very thing driving her to madness, since the final prediction is that her younger brother will be the one to kill her. She knows she's going to die and the feeling of being unable to escape a destiny could easily drive someone as controlling as Cersei to madness, especially since she's obsessed with victory/revenge. I feel like she must be totally consumed by the idea Tyrion will get to kill her.
Her sleeping with Euron was simple desperation I think, he hinted he would leave with his fleet if he didn't get what he wanted, and she had to give in. She's desperate and has no allies so she's forced to do what she has to to stay 'in the game' so to speak.
I guess we'll see, I feel like something has to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Bit of a weird example but I can see it becoming like a Hitler's bunker situation, as slowly the reality of her own failure/fate dawns on her as her enemies close in and her 'friends' scramble to abandon her and save their own necks, eventually driving her to some insane act (burning King's Landing to the ground?) as a final desperate play.
She has the throne, but let's face it she's only really ruling over the Lannister lands because nobody else is following her. It's kind of a little hollow.
It’s funny if she thinks killing both her younger brothers is the way to escape the prophecy but she gets killed by the younger brother Greyjoy. I say funny but I would hate to see that twat as the main villain post the white walker battle.
Surely Danaerys is more likely to become the Mad Queen? I mean it comes from her dad, and her brother was also driven to erratic behaviour before being killed too.
Cersei's character has been more calculating than that up to now. I can see her being outwitted & being killed because of her decisions, I can't see her going mad though and I think that would be a cheap way for her to go too.
At least I don't want her to go in that way, because I quite like her
I'd say she's already halfway there (madness): she's manouvered herself into a isolation, she's blown up her own city, her children are dead, one of them driven to suicide by herself, she's lost her twin soulmate (or whatever you want to call their relationship) and actually sends a killer after him, she somehow manages to ignore an approaching zombie apocalypse and in the latest episode she has to more or less sell herself for an armada to someone she would've had killed for his insolence a couple of seasons ago.
I would also say that calling her calculating is an euphemism, I think the point of Cersei has always been that she's been driven (to the point of being consumed) by arrogance, pride and jealusy which has lead her to come up with short sighted schemes that always cost her down the line.
It would be more surprising if she didn't snap at one point, to some degree she already has.
Last edited:
Yes. The mother of dragons is likely to become the mad queen and will probably get toasted by the one remaining dragon (choosing between her or Jon) after the other two kill each other.
Idk, honestly is a bit of a stretch. It's already said that the Iron Islands is bunch of barren rocks, hence why they're robbing and looting. If she's really to bail on Jon Snow, can see her going to Dragonstone and not to II.
Desperation seems to be a recurring theme here, I'd argue that desperation =/= mania.
To be manic is to have no agency over your decisions and be driven by a lack of common sense, delusion & obsession - which I think suits Danaerys more than Cersei. However desperate Cersei is, she's still in control of her actions - it's just falling on death ears now. The idea that Danaerys is the rightful heir to the throne, last remaining Targ, everyone should bend the knee, mother of dragons etc only to be told that someone who is a half Stark has more claim to the throne than she does? There's no way she reacts positively to that & obviously mania is in her bloodline too.
Cersei has dealt with adversity all her life, if she was going to snap then it would make more sense for her to have done it before this point. Having gained the throne (however frivolous it is at this point) it would feel cheap if now is the moment that causes her to lose her shit. I just hope she dies in a memorable moment thats worthy of the journey her character has been on, being driven to mania wouldn't be that (imo)
It turned into how to train your dragon. Felt like I was watching some cheesy romcom.
Something I’ve just read online regarding the spiral symbol the White Walkers have been leaving in their wake:
The mountain that Last Hearth sits on mirrors the exact same spiral shape the White Walkers lay dead bodies in (as seen here in the new intro):
https://media.giphy.com/media/UpIzl4LUZWRTyNxE3O/giphy.gif
Interesting.
https://media.giphy.com/media/UpIzl4LUZWRTyNxE3O/giphy.gif
Interesting.
Yeah this is another thing they seem to have decided to just fly right past when it would have been better to show a bit of build up to it and how they actually snuck on to the boat. I’m sure this episode just came across a bit sloppy due to the, trying to bring all the story arcs together so they can finish this beast but some of the dialogue has just been terrible and reactions to things. No one would act as they did to that Bram bomb. They were all just chilled. Not bad acting just bad directing and scripting.
Depends which way they flee, as Iron Islands is to the West and Dragonstone to the East. Not to mention Eurons fleet is right at Kings Landing which is right next to Dragonstone.
They'd probably go to White Harbour first and use ships from that point until they reach Dragonstone. Either way don't think Danny will bail on Jon tbh. They'll probably beat the white walkers till the 4th episode and then focus on Cercei./SPOILER]
So from this thread, ive read:
-The episode was too rushed, but also a filler episode where nothing happened and was too slow.
-A scene was crap unless it means more for a future episode (have a feeling if that wasnt shown, then people would have complained when the dragon ride happened later on with no experience)
-Not enough action but also at the same time not enough dialogue (good dialogue) but some liked the scenes where there was no talking.
Is that right?
I also liked @Dante post regarding this being 90% done and the end game - complicated politics is out the window, its just war and fantasy now. With 5 eps left, introducing new backstabbing, politics and scheming would mean a lot of issues. We are going to get conflict. I cant see Dany/Jon being all plain sailing now that Jon knows the truth and 'nothing lasts'.
Would be quite funny if:
-The episode was too rushed, but also a filler episode where nothing happened and was too slow.
-A scene was crap unless it means more for a future episode (have a feeling if that wasnt shown, then people would have complained when the dragon ride happened later on with no experience)
-Not enough action but also at the same time not enough dialogue (good dialogue) but some liked the scenes where there was no talking.
Is that right?
I had no issue with the scene. I do however think it was too easy for Jon to do it, and quite accepting of Dany that a non-Targ can just be accepted by a dragon. Then again, one let Tyrion stroke him, right? Guess she can always think shes mother of dragons and the dragon allowed Jon cos she said so?
I do think the talk of a white walker (knight king) riding a undead dragon should have caused more issue especially given the way it was delivered as news and how big a deal that was. More of a deal was made about no elephants.
I do think the talk of a white walker (knight king) riding a undead dragon should have caused more issue especially given the way it was delivered as news and how big a deal that was. More of a deal was made about no elephants.
I also liked @Dante post regarding this being 90% done and the end game - complicated politics is out the window, its just war and fantasy now. With 5 eps left, introducing new backstabbing, politics and scheming would mean a lot of issues. We are going to get conflict. I cant see Dany/Jon being all plain sailing now that Jon knows the truth and 'nothing lasts'.
Would be quite funny if:
Dany actually knows Jon is related, and found out someway, and is just scheming right now to ensure she gets the throne and by keeping Jon close, it will stop him from trying to solely claim it as his - even though it seems like he doesnt want it.
Is this a wind up? Millions of people rejoiced when Joffery died. If he died very few would bat an eyelid.
Agreed. Everyone who lays claim to the throne has been portrayed to have faults. Dany is the best of the lot, but she is prone to fits of rage and ego, and also has a cruel streak as was highlighted by her burning Sam's family alive. She wants absolute submission like an obedient slave despite being the "breaker of chains" herself.
In contrast, the two people who don't want the throne are the best suited for it - Jon and Tyrion, who are both portrayed as fair, just and wise. And now Jon is obviously going to claim the throne. I think this is paving the way for an enmity with Dany leading to her eventual death (by White Walkers) with Jon inheriting the dragons.
I think blowing up a sept and missing (in all your delight about seeing hundreds of people die) that your son is going to be deeply depressed about it is kind of losing touch with reality. I'd say facing the prospect of either fighting an army of elite Eunuchs and Dragons united with the north or an overwhelming zombie apocalypse with no one but a mercenary company and a dodgy pirate by her side should make her desperate, but she isn't which to me is another sign of delusion.
It's true that from a modern point of view she faced adversity all her life, but at the same time, being a Lannister and being the queen she was always very powerful, giving her some measure of control over her situation and when she was young she could dream about being queen, when she was Robert's queen she could dream about getting him out of the way, when she was queen regent she could dream about creating a dynasty, etc. I think she's getting closer to the end of the line that regard.
Not that long ago she was completely outraged at the suggestion of being married to Loras, who being gay and a bit simple, would've probably been quite easy to manage/ignore. Now she's having to feck Euron (who shares a lot of bad qualities with her late husband) at his demand. That got to eat part of an already stressed soul and it signifies her loss of power.
Dany definitely has a strong feeling that being queen is her birthright and destiny and a certain harshness that comes with it, but on the other hand unlike Cersei she's also acted mercyfully and benevolent. She won't like Jon's claim, but I think it's pretty open what stance she will take after the inital shock.
I dont understand why the bankers are backing cersei, who clearly is outmatched. wait I've got it, bankers are stupid
I wondered about that at the time? Why wouldn't he have any use for a knife? It's not like he was given a pair of Puma Kings.
You have Danaerys who has killed thousands and burned Sams father and brother for refusing to bend their knees. Davos who fought for a King who murdered his own daughter and brother because of the witch he was cheating on his wife with. You have Tyrion who killed Davos's son with wildfire. Theon who betrayed the Starks and killed two little boys. Sansa who lied about the butcher boy and got her wolf killed. Jamie who pushed Bran out a window, bashed Karstarks sons head in with a rock and has killed hundreds of other people. Arya who seems to get all her jollies from watching people die and Jon who is a zombie and a traitor to his vows as a brother of the nights watch.
Other than those though, there's not much moral ambiguity.
She was cool with it. They were poly. Dont kinkshame them
Speculation:
Jon/Dany will beat back the White Walkers within the next 2 episodes. They cant really delay longer than that because they still have to leave time (in the show) to go back down south and deal with all that drama with Cersei.
Tensions will continue to rise between Jon and Dany now that he has found out his lineage. This has been set up to an extent by making a big deal about how the northeners dont trust her, and only trust Jon. Also that Jon himself doesnt seem entirely happy with her at time in the first episode. Furthermore, Jon has now started riding a dragon (Rhaegon no less - fitting given that Rhaegar is his dad). I reckon that Jon and Dany will split up due to both wanting to claim the crown, and Jon will take Rhaegon, leading to an epic three-way battle between the two of them and Cersei, including the potential for dragon-riding-fight between Jon and Dany.
Jon/Dany will beat back the White Walkers within the next 2 episodes. They cant really delay longer than that because they still have to leave time (in the show) to go back down south and deal with all that drama with Cersei.
Tensions will continue to rise between Jon and Dany now that he has found out his lineage. This has been set up to an extent by making a big deal about how the northeners dont trust her, and only trust Jon. Also that Jon himself doesnt seem entirely happy with her at time in the first episode. Furthermore, Jon has now started riding a dragon (Rhaegon no less - fitting given that Rhaegar is his dad). I reckon that Jon and Dany will split up due to both wanting to claim the crown, and Jon will take Rhaegon, leading to an epic three-way battle between the two of them and Cersei, including the potential for dragon-riding-fight between Jon and Dany.
I think the bank is playing Cersei.
"but sometimes tragedies are necessary to restore order and rational leadership"
Cersei basically paid the fee of her own assassination. The bank will hire Jaqen or Arya and get her killed.
"but sometimes tragedies are necessary to restore order and rational leadership"
Cersei basically paid the fee of her own assassination. The bank will hire Jaqen or Arya and get her killed.
If the elephants all stomp their feet at the same time could that cause a tidal wave
Ffs.
Aphex Tywin
I think people make too big a deal out of Dany burning the Tarlys. I think in the world of GoT it's perfectly normal to expect a pledge of fealty from defeated enemies, especially since Tarly was supposedly such a powerful general, someone you can't just allow to walk back to your enemy. Someone who reads as much as Samwell should probably understand this as well.
imagine getting wound up by a typo when it comes to a fictional character