Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

He tried to kill Daenerys two episodes ago, mate. He destroyed House Tyrell in the episode before that. Definitely the actions of a morally-minted man, those.

Its war. What do you expect?

He's kind enough to give the ol cnut a quick painless death.

I think all along jaime is an honroable man. Apart from banging his own sister everything he does is honroable to say.
 
I dont think marriage means anything to both of them.

A bastard iirc is if you don't know the parents. If they both have kids it'll be legitimate son of Jon and daenarys.

Jon was a bastard because ned didn't let him know who his mother are.
Nope.

Bastards are children born out of wedlock.
 
I dont think marriage means anything to both of them.

A bastard iirc is if you don't know the parents. If they both have kids it'll be legitimate son of Jon and daenarys.

Jon was a bastard because ned didn't let him know who his mother are.
I thought a bastard was a kid born to two people who arent married? You dont need to know who the parents are.
 
Cersei isn't really an animal. Well she is in someways but not literally.

Neither was Hodor, tbf.

Have a conceptual question regarding White Walkers
The corpses that are brought to life by White walkers are Wights. They can be killed simply by fire. So, the question is since the Viserion is basically a wight, can't it be simply killed if one of the other 2 dragons simply spits fire on it or say, anyone fires an arrow with fireball at tip on it?

Im assuming, more surface area so it can pretty much be put out if people shoot arrows.
The other dragons I assume would be able to do it, esp Drogon being the biggest beast.#

I think the biggest problem is the source material though. When GoT was universally agreed to be 'good' it was a time when it was world-building, unwieldy, and vast. Boiling that down to a tight narrative that lives up to the world that was created was always a challenge, and I understand it's a similar problem that GRRM is struggling with in the books too.
And a lot of people will always compare and wonder 'what if' with regards to source material.
I do wonder how the series would been seen if it was written in exactly the same way but viewers didnt know about source material (eg to say, that would never happen in the books). That will always be on some peoples minds even if they dont think it affects their judgment.
 
It depends what the criticism is to be fair. There are perfectly valid criticisms to be made, and I'm not for a second suggesting I am the arbiter of what they are, but an awful lot of this thread is preoccupied with moaning about things that have been explained because the poster wasn't paying attention. Another great portion of it is people subjecting GoT to a greater deal of scrutiny than they do virtually every other TV series because of the popularity of the show, and their desire to be contrarian.


I think the biggest problem is the source material though. When GoT was universally agreed to be 'good' it was a time when it was world-building, unwieldy, and vast. Boiling that down to a tight narrative that lives up to the world that was created was always a challenge, and I understand it's a similar problem that GRRM is struggling with in the books too.
Isn't a lot of the fawning and praise also extremely lame and childish fan boy stuff? So there's silly stuff on both sides which is natural for a show as big as this.

GoT is more deeply scrutinised than most shows but that's always bound to happen with a quality show that sets a high bar. Breaking bad was also extremely deeply critiqued because it was one of the best shows ever. And it was criticised for 'little' things because it set high standards. You hold Giggs to higher standards than you do kleberson.
 
Cersei was only ever destined to have three children. Either this pregnancy is false, or she loses the baby.
But if witches are to be believed, then are we sure Dany isnt going to have a kid either(not that I want that)?
 
I don't have much to add on the first part of the post since I am not aware of how Martin will handle this, but I do think he will go down a different path, not just with the conclusion (As in the end point) but how he gets there.

Regarding the second, I think the subtlety could have been achieved if the show was maybe a couple of episodes longer. Retain the 8 seasons, but add a couple more episodes and you have subtlety I was referring to without the drop in quality. But then again, the writing since Season 6 has been quite average, so there is no real guarantee of that either.

Even if you add 2-3 more episodes there wont be enough room for a proper built up like we had previously. Too many story arcs.

It's has to he converged and trimmed or there won't be enough time for everyone.

Sure it might help a bit but unless they add 3 seasons it'll still feel rushed, just as it is now.
 
He tried to kill Daenerys two episodes ago, mate. He destroyed House Tyrell in the episode before that. Definitely the actions of a morally-minted man, those.

The thing about war is that each side think they are the good guys.
 
But if witches are to be believed, then are we sure Dany isnt going to have a kid either(not that I want that)?
The witch never said she'll never have a kid. She said she'll have to pay with a life for a life. I reckon either Viserion's death compensates for that, or maybe Jon's resurrection does.
 
But Tyrion doesn't know that from a viewer's perspective. His creepy shadowing during boatsex probably has more meaning than we know of as of now.
Maybe he is just worried it might be harder to be hand of the Queen and convince Dany of things if her and Jon get together? I mean if they both say recommend something different, Dany might side with Jon. As a result it could have a huge effect on the future.
 
Miscarriage leading to full on transition into the mad queen, leading to the final battle for Westeros.

Giving birth to a dwarf, which pisses her off which causes her to kill the child. Which causes Jamie to kill her :smirk:
 
Have a conceptual question regarding White Walkers
The corpses that are brought to life by White walkers are Wights. They can be killed simply by fire. So, the question is since the Viserion is basically a wight, can't it be simply killed if one of the other 2 dragons simply spits fire on it or say, anyone fires an arrow with fireball at tip on it?

Technically it should, but Viserion is an ice dragon. Is he breathing ice, or is it icy fire? There might be an exception to the rule then.

For TV thrills, they are probably going to do a huge set-piece. Jon riding on Rhaegal vs Night's King on Viserion one-on-one combat is on the cards, reckon it should be a great watch.

As for Tyrion, I am totally convinced that he is in love with Dany and is going to plot against Jon. Its' about time the show got another evil schemer now that Littlefinger is dead. Quite possible that Tyrion is probably going to die as well.
 
He tried to kill Daenerys two episodes ago, mate. He destroyed House Tyrell in the episode before that. Definitely the actions of a morally-minted man, those.
He is clearly a conflicted character.

You are either being massively obtuse in order to back up your tedious criticisim, or 4 seasons of character development have flown right over your head.
 
The witch never said she'll never have a kid. She said she'll have to pay with a life for a life. I reckon either Viserion's death compensates for that, or maybe Jon's resurrection does.
Dany: "I cant have kids"
Jon: "Who told you that"
Dany: "The witch who killed my husband"

Seems pretty clear to me.
 
Isn't a lot of the fawning and praise also extremely lame and childish fan boy stuff? So there's silly stuff on both sides which is natural for a show as big as this.

GoT is more deeply scrutinised than most shows but that's always bound to happen with a quality show that sets a high bar. Breaking bad was also extremely deeply critiqued because it was one of the best shows ever. And it was criticised for 'little' things because it set high standards. You hold Giggs to higher standards than you do kleberson.

Maybe elsewhere, but I see little of it here.

At any rate, it's silly to let your personal enjoyment get spoiled by other peoples.
 
It's the 'liking the show' bit Buchan fails on unfortunately. He only pops up to tells us how shit he thinks it all is, but apparently the thought to stop watching hasn't occurred to him.

I do like the show. I jus find the trajectory of certain (fan-favourite) characters a bit too convenient, that's all.

Snow has dodged certain death about fifteen times since S01. He's an abysmal decision-maker and an even worst strategist, e.g. look at how he almost wrecked their plan to convince Cersei to call a truce all because he wouldn't give an oath he couldn't promise to keep and supposedly a man of honour. Give me strength. This level of cheese is beyond the pale.

In a show where death and destruction are faithfully delivered to every single person who makes a mistake, however slight, Snow and Daenerys continually get preferential treatment. If this is the ending that Martin envisaged, fine. I have no problem with that. It's the incessant false peril that these characters find themselves in which grates, as we know full well they'll come out the other side smelling of roses. How is that tension-filled drama? It becomes monotonous after the third time, let alone ten plus.
 
True forgot that. But then Hodor was more of an animal. That's harsh. But he was mentally weak/challenged which might have helped Bran. Bran is a superstar what Robinamicro wanted to be but never could become.
:lol: This is going to be the 28-3 effect on Falcons. We are never going to let this go Rob.
 
Dany: "I cant have kids"
Jon: "Who told you that"
Dany: "The witch who killed my husband"

Seems pretty clear to me.
Go watch the earlier episodes for the proper version of the curse. Dany's little recap left out several things.
 
Is that end of season 1 or beginning of season 2?
Don't remember. But a YouTube search should do the trick. I'd even recommend getting the full version of the scene from a book excerpt or something, since they left out part of it in the show.
 
I like this. She's hellbent on having a successor to rule Westeros, as she alluded to a few times in the S07 finale. If she loses this child, she could very well go 'Mad Queen'.
It'd make sense if they show her having the miscarriage about the same time the battle against the Others is reaching it's conclusion and they end the episode when the two events conclude.
 
I like this. She's hellbent on having a successor to rule Westeros, as she alluded to a few times in the S07 finale. If she loses this child, she could very well go 'Mad Queen'.
But that depends on if she is actually pregnant. I still think she is faking it.
 
He didn't know about the marriage annulment. Which i found amusing considering he's supposed to be this all knowing being.
He is still new at this. He can see everything. But maybe he misses out on things from here and there but can always go back to it when people talk about it. But then again in this situation, he should have gone back to see what happened to his aunt. I mean he knew she gave birth so go back a year and see who she was with and how she was "kidnapped".
 
He is still new at this. He can see everything. But maybe he misses out on things from here and there but can always go back to it when people talk about it. But then again in this situation, he should have gone back to see what happened to his aunt. I mean he knew she gave birth so go back a year and see who she was with and how she was "kidnapped".

But then again, he was always under the impression that his aunt was kidnapped due to the stories he heard as a kid. Kidnapped, raped and wham, a kid is born.
 
I expect the same but am struggling to understand the transformation. He's definitely being portrayed as the reluctant good bad guy. But it appears to be at complete odds with who he has been for most of the show. He's a rapist. Almost a child murderer. And throughout the first few seasons was the most slimy smug shit in the entire show.

I like the actor to be honest and I like the character too because he's been played superbly. But I've not gotten on to the bandwagon of him being good. I suppose it's not a bandwagon when that is how he indeed portrayed. But I just struggle to see how it's possible.

With Tyron for example you could see the goodness or at least the genuineness behind his drinking ways right from the start. Jamie's 'transformation' seems much less believable to me.

He's been a cnut for one season and the remainder of the seasons have shown him trying to battle with his own moral compass. It is clear the main factor behind him doing 'bad' stuff is Cersei.. whenever she is in his life, he veers towards the dark side and when he is away from her, he is capable of doing good. The show is at its best when it is capable of making characters like Jaime, likeable - maybe not to everyone but clearly he has alot of fans and that is testament to the character and the actor himself who has managed to make him capable of rooting for.

Pun aside, you can count the bad things Jaime has done on one hand.
 
Yep.

"Oooh, I love _______'s arc. Great character development."

Erm, no. Characters acting completely out of character is just plain shit. It's lazy, contrived writing to give the masses the ending they what. Jaime transforming into a goodie-two-shoes now all of a sudden is just moronic. He was a millisecond away from murdering Daenerys two episodes ago and now he's going to fight for her and Snow. Laughable.

To be fair, he wasn't going to 'murder' Dany.. he was attacking the leader of the opposition army who had just burnt all his army, as a commander in battle it was part of his duty to try and kill her to secure victory. I don't think that should in any way count against him in terms of how good a person he is.

I don't see it as lazy contrived writing, when this has been building up ever since season 2/3 when he first came across Brienne.
 
Yep.

"Oooh, I love _______'s arc. Great character development."

Erm, no. Characters acting completely out of character is just plain shit. It's lazy, contrived writing to give the masses the ending they what. Jaime transforming into a goodie-two-shoes now all of a sudden is just moronic. He was a millisecond away from murdering Daenerys two episodes ago and now he's going to fight for her and Snow. Laughable.

Jaime trying to murder Daenerys wasn't at all evil though. As far as he's concerned, she's the daughter of a man who burned people alive as a hobby, and the fact that the first time he's encountered her is while she's roasting his men alive on a dragon, with murdering pillagers fighting alongside her, only reinforces that opinion.

Jaime's not perfect but his characters changed drastically from earlier seasons. He genuinely upholds his vow to try and get the Stark children to safety by sending Brienne to find them. He's able to take Riverrun in Season 6 without spilling a lot of blood.

The reason he's fighting alongside Daenerys/Snow now is because he's aware of the undead threat. Something he wasn't aware of a couple of episodes ago.