Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

RDCR07 said:
I am wondering how exactly is Jaime going to be of any help in the North unless he can bring his bannermen? Its not like he is a great fighter without his left hand. Maybe take Bronn with him but who else in terms of numbers?
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Yeah I'm not sure what he's bringing to the table really. Not like they should trust him and what use is he without a decent army alongside him? I guess he can offer his 'expertise' and agree to lead their armies from the front against the whitewalkers.

Also he's not exactly popular in the North is he? Bran will probably warg into him at some point and do the 'stop hitting yourself thing' (with his metal hand obviously)
 
Jamie is an experienced and accomplished military General, he completely out thought Tyrion before the dragons came into play. He's surely a level above anyone else in Daenerys' corner in that sense. He can be useful.
 
It's a pretty big psychological blow to the Lannister forces, though. Having your commander and the brother of your Queen decide you're on the wrong side isn't going to boost morale.

And even if he's not a great soldier in hand-to-hand combat anymore, he still knows as much as anyone about armies.
 
Adebesi said:
Jamie is an experienced and accomplished military General, he completely out thought Tyrion before the dragons came into play. He's surely a level above anyone else in Daenerys' corner in that sense. He can be useful.
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Yeah that's the way I think they'll go with it. Like I said though he's not exactly trustworthy.
 
Overall I would say it was a very good season with some great visual effects. I didn't like the pacing at times but I thought they got it spot-on for the finale.

I thought Arya & Tyrion's characters took a step back this season. Arya didn't really do much except act weird to Sansa & kill Littlefinger, although the opening scene from the season was awesome. Tyrion basically got out-smarted by Cersei every time he came up with a plan. I was disappointed neither really developed this season. Cersei was brilliant throughout.

Euron also was a weird one - superb in the first 2/3 episodes & then gone until the last episode
I think he's the father to Cersei's kid.

Looking ahead, they've got so much to fit into 6 episodes. The great war, Cersei/Euron attacking with this new army, the battle between Jon/Dany & Cersei (assuming they survive the North), other stuff with Euron & the eventual fall-out from everything. I'm hoping they don't rush things & have an actual & logical ending.
 
Holy feck! I was going through some earlier footage of the show and saw the scene between Bran and Benjen where Bran was told that Benjen was stabbed in the stomach by a walker, and saved by the children of the forest. They had to stab him in the heart with dragon glass for that, but this means there's a way to prevent someone from turning. I wonder if there will be any significance to this next season.
 
Bronn will definitely go with him cause Cersei doesnt trust Bronn. Dany needs to send word to the Second Sons.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
I was also thinking this, he clearly feels responsible for the deaths of Mycella and Tommen. Perhaps he's been convinced by Cersei to switch sides so he isn't "responsible" for another Lannister death.
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Cersei was responsible for both Mycella's and Tommen's death not Tyrion.
She was responsible for Tyrion's trial where the Mountain killed the Viper which was the reason that Mycella was killed. Tommen killed himself because Cersei killed his Queen.

Cersei is the type of person who likes to deflect her crimes on to others.
 
Jaime's ability as a battle commander will be useful both in terms of tackling the NK and the Lannister/Golden Company forces. He would be a valuable asset to have around and Cersei's inability to value him was one of the reasons he walked away.. he could see that she had no real love for him, but even worse a huge lack of respect for him and this is evident in her actions throughout the series i.e. cheating on him but also freely rubbing the offer of marriage from Euron in his face.

One of the big aspects of Jaime's character is this quest to be remembered as a majestic knight, a 'hero' and that is what is so tragic about his arc thus far... not only was he called a 'kingslayer' despite saving all of KL, but his remaining outstanding ability.. his ability to fight is taken away from him with his hand being chopped off. The only thing that remains now for him outside of his love for Cersei (which has also gone to shit), is salvaging some honour and ensuring he is remembered for some positive deeds - as right now if he were to die, his obituary and standing as a 'great' knight would be in pieces.

This is a guy who could have had titles and honours handed to him on a plate and forsakes it all in order to blaze his own path to what considers glory.. and thus far, he has been pissing in the wind. I expect huge achievements from him in the final season, and to be remembered a hero.. but I doubt he will survive or have a truly happy ending.
 
I've also done some research on why the undead dragon breathes blue flame instead of yellow/orange/red. A blue flame indicates complete combustion, red or yellow flames may be the sign of incomplete combustion. With hydrocarbon flames, the amount of oxygen supplied with the gas determines the rate of combustion, flame colour and temperature.

With enough oxygen, you get complete combustion and the flame burns blue at a temperature of around 1,980°C. A yellow flame is indicative of incomplete combustion and carbon monoxide emissions. Yellow flames only burn at around 1,000 °C. The yellow colour is due to incandescence of very fine soot particles that are produced in the flame.

Ergo, we can conclude that the undead Viserion breathes flames much more efficiently and those flames are almost double in temperature, compared to those of Drogon and Rhaegal.

PS - all this goes out the window if it turns out that magic is the source of the dragons' flames, and not basic science.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Yeah that's the way I think they'll go with it. Like I said though he's not exactly trustworthy.
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I dont think the trust issue will come up so much when it comes to the immediate problem of fighting the dead because the sides in that fight are so clear. But yes it does raise interesting questions about what happens after that, which should be interesting to develop.

RDCR07 said:
Bronn will definitely go with him cause Cersei doesnt trust Bronn. Dany needs to send word to the Second Sons.
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Yes, and because if Bronn stays in King's Landing itll be harder to avoid having him on screen with Cercei.
 
van der star said:
I've also done some research on why the undead dragon breathes blue flame instead of yellow/orange/red. A blue flame indicates complete combustion, red or yellow flames may be the sign of incomplete combustion. With hydrocarbon flames, the amount of oxygen supplied with the gas determines the rate of combustion, flame colour and temperature.

With enough oxygen, you get complete combustion and the flame burns blue at a temperature of around 1,980°C. A yellow flame is indicative of incomplete combustion and carbon monoxide emissions. Yellow flames only burn at around 1,000 °C. The yellow colour is due to incandescence of very fine soot particles that are produced in the flame.

Ergo, we can conclude that the undead Viserion breathes flames much more efficiently and those flames are almost double in temperature, compared to those of Drogon and Rhaegal.

PS - all this goes out the window if it turns out that magic is the source of the dragons' flames, and not basic science.
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dphObdv.gif
 
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van der star said:
I've also done some research on why the undead dragon breathes blue flame instead of yellow/orange/red. A blue flame indicates complete combustion, red or yellow flames may be the sign of incomplete combustion. With hydrocarbon flames, the amount of oxygen supplied with the gas determines the rate of combustion, flame colour and temperature.

With enough oxygen, you get complete combustion and the flame burns blue at a temperature of around 1,980°C. A yellow flame is indicative of incomplete combustion and carbon monoxide emissions. Yellow flames only burn at around 1,000 °C. The yellow colour is due to incandescence of very fine soot particles that are produced in the flame.

Ergo, we can conclude that the undead Viserion breathes flames much more efficiently and those flames are almost double in temperature, compared to those of Drogon and Rhaegal.

PS - all this goes out the window if it turns out that magic is the source of the dragons' flames, and not basic science.
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It breathes blue flames cause it's eyes are blue. GoT science bruh!
 
Coxy said:
What oath?

It was explained in the series that because he died - he completed his oath. He said it last season.
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Yeah it was explained to the viewer. Not to everyone in Westeros. Hell they don't even know that he died and was resurrected.

In the very first episode of season 1 we see Ned execute a NW deserter. And from the perspective of everyone else who isn't Davos, Sansa, the Freefolk and members of NW, Jon is and should be a deserter and Oath breaker. There is no reason for them to think otherwise.
 
Jons been trying to convince people of the bigger threat all season. Pretty safe to assume that they don't give a feck about knights watch vows. And even if someone brought it up, it's pretty easy for him to palm it off given what he knew about the WW and why it's important they band together.
 
harshad said:
Yeah it was explained to the viewer. Not to everyone in Westeros. Hell they don't even know that he died and was resurrected.

In the very first episode of season 1 we see Ned execute a NW deserter. And from the perspective of everyone else who isn't Davos, Sansa, the Freefolk and members of NW, Jon is and should be a deserter and Oath breaker. There is no reason for them to think otherwise.
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I don't think there is a need to really go into that.. we as the viewers are aware and the characters who gave a shit about him being in the NW all know what happened. Bringing it up now as a plot point would be irrelevant and it has rightfully been ignored IMO.
 
van der star said:
I've also done some research on why the undead dragon breathes blue flame instead of yellow/orange/red. A blue flame indicates complete combustion, red or yellow flames may be the sign of incomplete combustion. With hydrocarbon flames, the amount of oxygen supplied with the gas determines the rate of combustion, flame colour and temperature.

With enough oxygen, you get complete combustion and the flame burns blue at a temperature of around 1,980°C. A yellow flame is indicative of incomplete combustion and carbon monoxide emissions. Yellow flames only burn at around 1,000 °C. The yellow colour is due to incandescence of very fine soot particles that are produced in the flame.

Ergo, we can conclude that the undead Viserion breathes flames much more efficiently and those flames are almost double in temperature, compared to those of Drogon and Rhaegal.

PS - all this goes out the window if it turns out that magic is the source of the dragons' flames, and not basic science.
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Does this mean if we can get Viserion back on side i.e. warg him, his flame would have more chance of doing damage to the NK..
 
Adebesi said:
Jamie is an experienced and accomplished military General, he completely out thought Tyrion before the dragons came into play. He's surely a level above anyone else in Daenerys' corner in that sense. He can be useful.
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Is he though? They've more or less given him that rank because they realised they literally had nobody else on Cerseis side apart from Randall Tarly. All the great military commanders in Westeros are dead. I don't see how Jamie is better than Jorah or even Barristan Selmy if they hadn't killed him off. For that matter I don't think Jon is a great war general either. They killed off so many characters that they don't have very many of those.

Although I guess since they don't care about political intrigue and story telling any more they can just go for visual effects. Jamie was humiliated by Robb Stark, the only reason they gave him a victory over Tyrion is to add some level of believability to Cerseis side.
 
van der star said:
Oh, and how is undead Viserion flying around with massive holes in it's wings? I get that this is a fantasy show, but that's aerodynamically impossible, they should keep the make believe to a certain extent, and not just blatantly disregard physics all together.
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Excellent parody post, well done. :lol:
 
Raees said:
I don't think there is a need to really go into that.. we as the viewers are aware and the characters who gave a shit about him being in the NW all know what happened. Bringing it up now as a plot point would be irrelevant and it has rightfully been ignored IMO.
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Don't think it's been ignored so much as not mentioned till it's convenient for the writers. Dany suspects it already. I expect most of next season to be more fan service. Don't get me wrong, it'll still be half way decent with the budget they have, but they seem to have completely changed pace from GRRM's vision. A couple will die but I think they'll go for a happy ending which is something i can't see Martin doing.
 
So if there is an army of twenty thousand that could be hired by gold and is supposed to be the best army, atleast according to Cercei,why didn't Jon and Dany go pitch the wright idea to them.. Or go take the gold from the Iron bank to hire them.. If they were really famous sellswords.. Surely having Daario should have helped them negotiate with the sell swords.. And what makes those Islands where aarya traines (Bravos?) and this Essos place safe from the walkers that none of the them are being informed about the threat..
 
kotha said:
So if there is an army of twehty thousand that could be hired by gold.. And is supposed to be the best army atleast according to Cercei,why didn't Jon and Dany go pitch the wright idea to them and take the gold from there to hire them.. If they were really famous sellswords.. Surely having Daario should have helped them negotiate with the sell swords.. And what makes those Islands where aarya traines (Bravos?) and this Essos place safe from the walkers that none of the them are being informed about the threat..
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They're across the narrow sea? The walkers can't swim across, and I doubt even the storms of winter will solidify a water body that big.
 
Can't wait for the next season. Some of this season was a little rushed imo so hope they don't do that next season

I think Jaime could save Brann in some sort of way to make up for what he done to him in the tower in season 1. Also think he will be the brother to kill Cercei
 
kotha said:
So if there is an army of twenty thousand that could be hired by gold and is supposed to be the best army, atleast according to Cercei,why didn't Jon and Dany go pitch the wright idea to them and take the gold from there to hire them.. If they were really famous sellswords.. Surely having Daario should have helped them negotiate with the sell swords.. And what makes those Islands where aarya traines (Bravos?) and this Essos place safe from the walkers that none of the them are being informed about the threat..
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So they can play the Cersei catches Dany by surprise angle, which will then result in Daario and the second sons making there way to Westeros to join in that and the final battle. As of this point even with a Dragon on his side the NK can still be stopped. Hamper the numbers of the living more and you tilt it back favourably in his corner. Which is fine by me since I'm rooting for him. They've more or less followed battle logic thus far, I can't think of too many cases where the underdog has won. Even BOB was courtesy of the Knights of the Vale riding in very late to save the day.
 
Good final. Bran received the boxset for GoT on demand. He pretty much has the most power in the show now...if he survives the battle against the dead.

He knows every dirty secret/move anyone has pulled.
 
kotha said:
So if there is an army of twenty thousand that could be hired by gold and is supposed to be the best army, atleast according to Cercei,why didn't Jon and Dany go pitch the wright idea to them.. Or go take the gold from the Iron bank to hire them.. If they were really famous sellswords.. Surely having Daario should have helped them negotiate with the sell swords.. And what makes those Islands where aarya traines (Bravos?) and this Essos place safe from the walkers that none of the them are being informed about the threat..
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Because the show writers hadn't thought of them until that point.
 
kotha said:
So if there is an army of twenty thousand that could be hired by gold and is supposed to be the best army, atleast according to Cercei,why didn't Jon and Dany go pitch the wright idea to them.. Or go take the gold from the Iron bank to hire them.. If they were really famous sellswords.. Surely having Daario should have helped them negotiate with the sell swords.. .
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The word in Essos in that they hate Dany cause of what she did - she locked up one of the influential men and her dothraki girl in season 2 cause they conspired together to steal her dragons. So Essos wont support Dany's cause. Thats the main selling point for Cersei to hire him.
 
Raees said:
I don't think there is a need to really go into that.. we as the viewers are aware and the characters who gave a shit about him being in the NW all know what happened. Bringing it up now as a plot point would be irrelevant and it has rightfully been ignored IMO.
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I am not sure if any of the northern lords are also aware of his death and resurrection. And when Cersei goes on about how she will have his word that the north will not attack the Lannisters because he is supposed to be an honourable person, doesn't make sense when from her perspective he has broken his Oath of NW, a crime that is punishable by death.
 
Liver_bird said:
Is he though? They've more or less given him that rank because they realised they literally had nobody else on Cerseis side apart from Randall Tarly. All the great military commanders in Westeros are dead. I don't see how Jamie is better than Jorah or even Barristan Selmy if they hadn't killed him off. For that matter I don't think Jon is a great war general either. They killed off so many characters that they don't have very many of those.

Although I guess since they don't care about political intrigue and story telling any more they can just go for visual effects. Jamie was humiliated by Robb Stark, the only reason they gave him a victory over Tyrion is to add some level of believability to Cerseis side.
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We know he won several battles in season 1, correcting the faults of the Freys at Riverrun. He was beaten by Robb but that was taken more as a sign of Robb's skill than Jaime's lack of skill - and he learnt from his defeat to beat Tyrion at Casterly Rock. You can't discount that battle without discounting any other.

I agree that we haven't seen Jon as a great general yet.
 
2E_MUFC said:
Can't wait for the next season. Some of this season was a little rushed imo so hope they don't do that next season

I think Jaime could save Brann in some sort of way to make up for what he done to him in the tower in season 1. Also think he will be the brother to kill Cercei
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I reckon the same on the last part.
 
harshad said:
I am also surprised that no one is calling out Jon for breaking his Night's Watch Oath. As far as the rest of Westeros is concerned, Jon joined the Night's Watch, an Order where men serve for life and deserting the Night's Watch is a crime punishable by death. His resurrection has been kept under wraps and except perhaps Davos, Sansa, and the members of the Night's Watch no one knows what happened at Castle Black.

I would have thought that Cersei at least would have brought up his supposed Oath breaking as a reason for not trusting Jon.
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Lannisters, and that includes Cersei, have been betraying everyone and everything for years. She was betraying her husband by fecking her brother and passing of their offspring as Robert's children. They betrayed Ned Stark and murdered him, they set up the Red Wedding, they destroyed the entire Tyrell clan and did many other horrible things. They changed allegiances and fecked over their allies constantly. Lannisters accusing anyone of not being trustworthy should be considered a bad joke.

And the whole Night's Watch oath thing only matters when status quo remains the same. When the big wars break out, many laws, rules and regulations disappear. When the social order is turned upside down and thousands of people die on a regular basis, everything becomes about survival. Now wildlings are part of the Watch, for example, the Starks are allies of the last Targaryen queen and Dothrakis are fighting alongside them. A few years earlier none of that would seem even remotely possible.
 
RDCR07 said:
The word in Essos in that they hate Dany cause of what she did - she locked up one of the influential men and her dothraki girl in season 2 cause they conspired together to steal her dragons. So Essos wont support Dany's cause. Thats the main selling point for Cersei to hire him.
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Just to clarify Essos is not one united kingdom but a collection of different cities and some of them have nothing to do with the other. What Dany did with the influential man and her dothraki girl in Qarth has no bearing on how the people of Bravos would react to her, if she ever visited Bravos.

Dany's main fight in Essos was against the culture of keeping slaves and there are some cities who are more infamous for their Slave Trade. So while it would seem that the these cities whose main economy depends upon slave trade would be united against Dany, that doesn't go for every city in Essos.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I watched that and felt somewhat disappointed. Not merely because of the last episode but because of the direction the series has gone in. I mean, GoT is a very good show and will be regardless of what happened in season 6/7 or will happen in season 8. But I've developed a few issues with the show that keep me from genuinely loving it now (and over the last 3 seasons, I guess).

For one, the "main" characters are all too weak. They're all fairly bland, can't really act and pale in comparison to the strong supporting cast. The ones who aren't so (Cersie and Jaimie) are complete shitbags one of which has been given far too much importance/master tacticianness. Tyrion has over the seasons become more and more irrelevant. I've always felt that while killing off important characters made a big impact, I thought it left big vacuum both in terms of the story as well as the personalities you were watching. Short term impact but long term loss IMO.

The other is that essentially game of thrones has gone from being fantastic, gritty and deep show, to what now really resembles a Hollywood blockbuster dressed in top quality drama clothing. It's still very good just nothing special anymore.

As for the last episode, like episode 6, the writing is just average. The whole dragon pit scene was extremely clumsy and showy, and had very little depth. I've seen the term fan-fiction being said about this season a lot. And it's bang on the money. There's a lot of punchlines in place of good dialogue. A lot of unions that are supposed to make you make fans go 'yaay'. A lot of last minute saves that entire scenes are set up merely to ensure happen so that a main character survives/looks good. And then there's a predictability. Most people knew (almost) John's heritage. And did we need to see the marriage happen to show us the genuineness of the parents relationship? The Little Finger shit was predictable and people saw it coming 5 episodes ago.

All of the above is fine because it wont change that it's an excellent show that I will always watch. It just reduces the level a good notch or two.
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Agreed. I also think it's telling that as soon as the episodes air, there's wall-to-wall whooping and hollering from the fanbois, but once you sit back and digest/analyse the episodes, the weaknesses are very apparent.
 
Raees said:
Jaime's ability as a battle commander will be useful both in terms of tackling the NK and the Lannister/Golden Company forces. He would be a valuable asset to have around and Cersei's inability to value him was one of the reasons he walked away.. he could see that she had no real love for him, but even worse a huge lack of respect for him and this is evident in her actions throughout the series i.e. cheating on him but also freely rubbing the offer of marriage from Euron in his face.

One of the big aspects of Jaime's character is this quest to be remembered as a majestic knight, a 'hero' and that is what is so tragic about his arc thus far... not only was he called a 'kingslayer' despite saving all of KL, but his remaining outstanding ability.. his ability to fight is taken away from him with his hand being chopped off. The only thing that remains now for him outside of his love for Cersei (which has also gone to shit), is salvaging some honour and ensuring he is remembered for some positive deeds - as right now if he were to die, his obituary and standing as a 'great' knight would be in pieces.

This is a guy who could have had titles and honours handed to him on a plate and forsakes it all in order to blaze his own path to what considers glory.. and thus far, he has been pissing in the wind. I expect huge achievements from him in the final season, and to be remembered a hero.. but I doubt he will survive or have a truly happy ending.
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I expect the same but am struggling to understand the transformation. He's definitely being portrayed as the reluctant good bad guy. But it appears to be at complete odds with who he has been for most of the show. He's a rapist. Almost a child murderer. And throughout the first few seasons was the most slimy smug shit in the entire show.

I like the actor to be honest and I like the character too because he's been played superbly. But I've not gotten on to the bandwagon of him being good. I suppose it's not a bandwagon when that is how he indeed portrayed. But I just struggle to see how it's possible.

With Tyron for example you could see the goodness or at least the genuineness behind his drinking ways right from the start. Jamie's 'transformation' seems much less believable to me.
 
So what was that look that Tyrion had at the end there? When Jon went into Deanery's cabin.

First i just read it as him thinking that this romantic relationship of theirs is going to cause some issues. But i don't know now.
 
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