No point debating him. Enjoy the show and you're just a "fanboi".
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
I find it incredible you're talking about writers making Cersei behead them as soon as they reach KL.. Because that's "true to her character". She's survived this long because she's smart, and not stupid enough to try ambushing a big chunk of people that are accompanied by at least one fecking dragon.
As tiryon said in the last episode, she won't try to do anything stupid because the moment she lifts one finger the dragon will burn all of KL. Seriously mate, follow the episode properly.
Does anyone else watch GOT Academy. I just found them the other day and I really like them. Funny, smart guys who will give credit to the show when it's deserved but will also call bullshit on the bad D&D writing. They've helped make this season a lot more interesting for me. They throw in some insightful historical parallels too, much better thought out than the reductive tvtropes-level bullshit you usually find online.
Thank you!
To answer your point about the number of episodes - I believe it's down to budget, the salaries of the actors plus the budget for each episode has spiraled as a result of the show's success.
It's a shame because they could've extended at least 2 more seasons out of this and slowed the pace down I feel
Love the term fanboi. TBF, some people have made some good points to his questions but you know its moot when it resorts to that.
Equally as bad as when people question some stuff and the result is 'its dragon guys'
Ya that makes sense I guess. The current way they're ending the last 2 seasons will be a treat for people in a few years who only start watching it. 2 seasons of mental episodes back to back I suppose.
Didn't you do the exact same thing ?Love the term fanboi. TBF, some people have made some good points to his questions but you know its moot when it resorts to that.
Equally as bad as when people question some stuff and the result is 'its dragon guys'
I'm not surprised. I'm certainly not someone who complains about the show for the sake of complaining but even I thought this was a poor episode.
It's more the predicaments they were in. I would've expected one of Jamie/Bronn to have at least been captured, if not killed considering everyone else was killed/captured. Same when Suicide Squad went North of the Wall, to face that massive army & only lose 1 person of note is a little unrealistic. Although, I suppose the dragon is a 'death'!!
Great cinematography and action scenes with terrible writing which basically sums up this entire season so far. How many times did they hint a baby between Jon and Daenerys? They were about as subtle as Gendry's warhammer.
Err, I quite liked that episode. The knight king definitely deserves respekt. True leader.
Match day thread?
I know full well the writers aren't going to do that. But what we know of Cersei up to now, she's far more likely to want to do that rather than join forces with Snow & Daenerys like some ludicrous The Expendables megateam. I find it preposterous that you're trying to argue otherwise.
What?
The plan would have seemed more logical in the first place if they'd just had Jon mention something he was taught by Qhorin Halfhand in season 2: that if you go scouting beyond The Wall, whether it's to hunt wildlings or wights, it's best to travel in small groups and wait for a splinter group to attack quietly, as to not attract too much attention. Not mentioning it, either because they felt it was unnecessary or because they forgot (most likely the latter), just leaves them open to scrutiny they've frankly invited upon themselves.
Another tiny tweak to the script which could have avoided quite a lot of confusion would have been if they'd just occasionally mentioned that time was passing, that they hoped Gendry made it back to Eastwatch, that they'd been "out here for two days". I liked the fact that the sky went dark and that morning came, but there's no reason why they couldn't have done it again.
I'm sure the physics and times check out with regards to Gendry making it back to Eastwatch, sending a raven, and Daenerys reaching Jon, but a little more time spent explaining would have made all the difference. Instead what we're left with is questions and the illusion that roughly a day has passed when it could have easily been four or five.
Another tiny tweak to the script which could have avoided quite a lot of confusion would have been if they'd just occasionally mentioned that time was passing, that they hoped Gendry made it back to Eastwatch, that they'd been "out here for two days". I liked the fact that the sky went dark and that morning came, but there's no reason why they couldn't have done it again.
I'm sure the physics and times check out with regards to Gendry making it back to Eastwatch, sending a raven, and Daenerys reaching Jon, but a little more time spent explaining would have made all the difference. Instead what we're left with is questions and the illusion that roughly a day has passed when it could have easily been four or five.
I like to think I'm straight up aggressive but cool. You just shout shit about the show for attention. I'm worse for giving it you.
Case in point, a few days ago you said Emilia Clarke was the worst actress on TV, or words to that effect. I said that was ridiculous, you then called me your favourite word, "fanboi".
I made a reasonable point about her acting skills but you didn't respond since your debating skills amount to "Fanboi".
This is largely correct. I don't mind them coming up with the idea of wanting to prove the existence of White Walkers to Cersei, but the problem is that sending a team of Jon and Daenerys' most valuable men beyond the Wall into a situation of certain peril to maybe obtain one wight if they're lucky and all don't die to someone who's almost certainly not going to listen is a daft plan.
The most sensible measure for Daenerys to take would be to just...take the capital. Yes, it'll result in a high number of deaths, but considering what's coming it'd realistically prevent a lot more, and she's shown herself to be willing to burn hundreds/thousands when taking on the Lannister army. But again...she isn't going to do that, presumably, because they're not ready to kill off Cersei yet.
And for what it's worth...I don't mind plot armour when it's used correctly. You naturally don't want to kill off every protagonist, because then you're left without a story, but the writers have done a poor job of trying to make the plot work this season without it being obvious what they're doing. The plan to capture a wight wasn't done with any inherent logic; it was done because we haven't had a proper confrontation with the WW's yet this season, and the writers wanted one. The Lannister/Targaryen battle was visually magnificent, but the fact that the consequences were minimal and Jaime got away unharmed suggests it was done because the writers wanted a big battle, but couldn't be arsed to result in it having any lasting effect. And I say that as someone who thought episode four was a fantastic watch.
Had to share this. Thought it was hilarious
They randomly had a scene of Tyrion asking about the succession and what comes after, then when Jon gives tries to give Longclaw back to Jorah, Jorah says give it to your future children. Then Daenarys says to Jon at the end that she can't have children. They hadn't mentioned it for ages and but they referenced it a lot in this episode. Pretty obvious she will get preggers in season 8.
I don't see why my assessment of Clarke's acting skills is so controversial. It's a well-held view among many who watch the show. My position on it further intensified when I heard of the ludicrous salary she receives. It's nothing personal. More power to her.
In contrast, Dinklage, Headey, Cunningham, Coster-Waldau, Bean, Charles Dance etc. all out-perform(ed) her, for me. By quite a distance, too.
Why season 8? Why not next episode?
Wanting and obliging are two different things. You think Danny and John want to go and rendezvous with Cersei? Feck no, they are circumstantially obliged to. Cersei is also circumstantially obliged to entertain it. To suggest anything otherwise actually preposterous.
Cersei wants to chop their heads off. We know that. They know that. But that doesn't mean she will or is in the opportune position to do so. Why you think it's logical that she will try to is beyond daft considering the weapons they have up their sleeves if she lifts a finger.
Yeah, Jorah had a lil convo with Jon. But they could have easily had him say, 'weve been here a couple of nights, weve run out of food, the fires wont last long, and the ice is almost frozen.'
I think that helps a bit.
Ive been thinking about this, but is it the most sensible thing?
Given whats been established we know:
-Jon wants as many people as possible to fight the Army of the dead (and Lannisters still have numbers)
-Dany wants KL but she sorta doesnt want to use foreigners hence why she went along with the initial Tyrion plan
-She doesnt want to hurt innocent people but has never had issues killing / torturing those who arent innocent in her eyes (as far as weve seen, there are still residents in KL)
-Cersei doesnt want to give up the throne, but knows shes fighting a losing battle (submit and die, or fight and die).
-Cersei has a kid coming and a truce (but with an underhanded plan behind it) gives her best chance to survive with her unborn kid
And going from that
-Dany taking KL would result in losses on both sides which given whats coming is not great.
-Jon is a dumbass who acts before thinking. (TBF, hes been like this since s1 so at least his character is consistent)
The plan essentially is a bad idea. But then, what else can they do to try and get Cersei on their side? We as TV watchers know what shes been upto, but as characters, Jon and Dany havent seen this. And Tyrion doesnt know whats happened beyond s4. Olenna is the only one I guess.
I do however think it could have been done better/ with less issues with a bit of thought.
Also agree with you about minimal consequences. Jamie getting away is the worst thing about this season for me.
Exactly. I'm resigned to the inevitable Snow-Daenerys victory at this stage but I just wish they'd have her take the throne in a Game of Thrones-faithful way, not some quasi-political metaphor for our times. She could overthrow Cersei and take King's Landing in about ten minutes and then Snow and co. could plan for the Night King's assault. This ham-fisted, clunky plotline is detracting from the tight, intelligent writing of old. I don't see why it's a sin to suggest otherwise.
She hasn't hooked up with Jon yet. It would hilarious if they did it all in the next episode though.2 more seasons of winter arriving ? Great war ? I don't think many people would have had the patience.
Please don't read this if you've not seen s7e6.
I'm willing to wait until the end for this to become clear, simply because I have a feeling that the characters we like are going to witness the mistakes they made this season hit them hard. Daenerys has been advised not to take King's Landing immediately because thousands of people would die and the remaining common folk would find it hard to adjust to "foreign soldiers", "foreign savages" and a Targaryen queen ruling them after destroying their city.
As far as the writing this season has gone, that particular plot direction has perhaps been the strongest, or at least the most reasonable. When Daenerys sailed across the Narrow Sea in the season six finale most of us were expecting Cersei to be dead within three episodes, but to level the playing field they've shoehorned in this (believable) angle that Tyrion's frightened of her becoming a fire-breathing authoritarian, and as far as I'm concerned it's worked.
But as a result, Tyrion and Varys' advice has allowed Cersei to take an armistice after a huge defeat, broker a deal with the Iron Bank and use that loan to fund the services of a mercenary army from Essos. Not only that, but Tyrion's decision to send a small group beyond The Wall to capture a wight has handed an actual dragon to the Army of the Dead. As a result, the common people they wanted to save from a fiery death are now at greater risk than before.
For years now, ever since Bran envisioned a dragon flying over King's Landing and ever since Daenerys stood in a destroyed throne room covered in snow (or ash), people have been convinced it would be her to do it. But who's the one character that would burn King's Landing to the ground without a second thought for the people he'd be killing? Mr. Night King, of course.
Considering the show has been criticised for treating its main characters too kindly since Jon Snow's resurrection, I think keeping them alive to watch their world fall to bits, and have it all be a result of their poor decision making, would be worse than any knife to the gut or arrow to the heart they should have otherwise received along the way. My prediction is that good will "win", but they'll have to rebuild their world from scratch once it's over.
As far as the writing this season has gone, that particular plot direction has perhaps been the strongest, or at least the most reasonable. When Daenerys sailed across the Narrow Sea in the season six finale most of us were expecting Cersei to be dead within three episodes, but to level the playing field they've shoehorned in this (believable) angle that Tyrion's frightened of her becoming a fire-breathing authoritarian, and as far as I'm concerned it's worked.
But as a result, Tyrion and Varys' advice has allowed Cersei to take an armistice after a huge defeat, broker a deal with the Iron Bank and use that loan to fund the services of a mercenary army from Essos. Not only that, but Tyrion's decision to send a small group beyond The Wall to capture a wight has handed an actual dragon to the Army of the Dead. As a result, the common people they wanted to save from a fiery death are now at greater risk than before.
For years now, ever since Bran envisioned a dragon flying over King's Landing and ever since Daenerys stood in a destroyed throne room covered in snow (or ash), people have been convinced it would be her to do it. But who's the one character that would burn King's Landing to the ground without a second thought for the people he'd be killing? Mr. Night King, of course.
Considering the show has been criticised for treating its main characters too kindly since Jon Snow's resurrection, I think keeping them alive to watch their world fall to bits, and have it all be a result of their poor decision making, would be worse than any knife to the gut or arrow to the heart they should have otherwise received along the way. My prediction is that good will "win", but they'll have to rebuild their world from scratch once it's over.
Hmm. That episode was all over the fecking place for me. The show is entertaining, no doubt, but the script is as clunky as you like. That’s been one of my pet peeves since they’ve deviated from the books. Some of the dialogue and plot contrivances have been very poor.
The dialogue between the Hound and Tormund in particular was awful; it was straight out of some terrible buddy cop movie.
I’m not buying this antagonism between Arya and Sansa, either. Not sure if it’s the writing or the acting in this case. I’d probably lean more towards the writing as i actually think Maisie Williams is a good actress. Sophie Turner not so much, but she’s fine. I’m just really not convinced by it.
Also, come on - only one person dying from the magnificent seven that went out on this “suicide mission” Nah, that’s nonsense. Tormund could have gone. Or the Hound. Or even Jorah. Hell, even all three of them. But only Thoros? Not having it.
There were some cool aspects of the episode, of course. I always love seeing the White Walkers, and the Night King in particular as he’s my favourite character in the show, bizarrely enough. I’ve said this before, but i really want him to win this whole damn thing ‘cause he’s so bad ass.
And, of course, the resurrected dragon. No matter how cynical i sometimes felt during this episode, that brought a smile to my face that i couldn’t contain. They have a dragon!!
I just feel like Game of Thrones is becoming like any other tv show on at the moment, though. The unpredictability of it is what made it so good. Now, it’s all becoming a little too contrived. Still expertly made and entertaining, but just very different.
The dialogue between the Hound and Tormund in particular was awful; it was straight out of some terrible buddy cop movie.
I’m not buying this antagonism between Arya and Sansa, either. Not sure if it’s the writing or the acting in this case. I’d probably lean more towards the writing as i actually think Maisie Williams is a good actress. Sophie Turner not so much, but she’s fine. I’m just really not convinced by it.
Also, come on - only one person dying from the magnificent seven that went out on this “suicide mission” Nah, that’s nonsense. Tormund could have gone. Or the Hound. Or even Jorah. Hell, even all three of them. But only Thoros? Not having it.
There were some cool aspects of the episode, of course. I always love seeing the White Walkers, and the Night King in particular as he’s my favourite character in the show, bizarrely enough. I’ve said this before, but i really want him to win this whole damn thing ‘cause he’s so bad ass.
And, of course, the resurrected dragon. No matter how cynical i sometimes felt during this episode, that brought a smile to my face that i couldn’t contain. They have a dragon!!
I just feel like Game of Thrones is becoming like any other tv show on at the moment, though. The unpredictability of it is what made it so good. Now, it’s all becoming a little too contrived. Still expertly made and entertaining, but just very different.
Yep. And then we'll have the "OMG! The foreshadowing in this show is unbelievable!!1!!'
The foreshadowing since S04 has been rather transparent, let's be honest. Callbacks and repeated lines, even between unconnected characters, to S01-S04 can be attributed to lazy and uncreative writing, for me, rather than literary genius. It's obvious the showrunners are tired of the show now and just want it over with. It's understandable, I suppose, after so many years and so many potential side-projects on the back-burner.
Craster's boy was still alive though.
Indeed so we'll see.
Had to share this. Thought it was hilarious
The Phil Thompson Liverpool-Targaryen comparison.
Aye, the issue is less whether the time and travelling logistics actually made sense and more that they failed to convince the audience that they made sense. Having unexplained time gaps when people uneventfully travel from point a to point b is absolutely fine but in this case the time it would take for Dany to arrive was absolutely central to the peril the group was in. It shouldn't have been that hard for the episode to establish a clearer internal timeframe.
I just feel like a lot of the events particularly at the start of this season have just been brushed aside. They could have elongated some of the incidents (Euron, Arya & The Freys, Bran etc) and ended this season with the NK reanimating the dragon for example.
@robinamicrowave
If that dragon flying over KL is the Night King's, wouldn't KL be in snow as winter would be here ? I think that vision/dream has been interpreted in various fashions too much. The vision of the throne room with the snow makes more sense and is more telling IMHO
I was browsing r/asoiaf the other day and a thread about the leaked episode (before it aired but after I'd watched it) and I read a comment from someone I subsequently suspected had read the leaked script in response to the possible Snow-Daenerys romance. He/she had just posted a one-sentence comment and included a hashtag, which I believe will come to fruition.
Wait until #boatsex in E08