Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Pretty fast paced episode that was. Now I won't complain about the time travel issue, although it was funny seeing ser davos covering so much ground in one episode (dragonstone to KL to dragonstone to east watch), but I will not be picky with that.

My only issue with the episode was lack of interaction among the characters. I wanted to see more interaction between jon and jorah, jorah and gendry, gendry and dany, tyrion and bronn, ser davos and jorah.. I know in grand scheme all these things will become immaterial as the goal is to beat or stop the army of dead but still some interactions would have been good.

Also, where was theon, wasn't he at dragonstone, surely he could have popped up for couple of mins and showed his presence.

I know we can't be too picky as many wanted to see white walkers march towards the wall and dragons fighting but still some interactions would have been wonderful.
 
It's not like they don't know about the pacing issues, that's why they had a few characters emphasise the story as been running for years (Sam mentioned Bran had been north of the wall for years and survived) they just don't have the time now to get it all done.

There's probably 10 hours left in the whole series at this point. That being said they could have moved the story much better in earlier seasons so it wouldn't be so rapid at the moment but I'm loving it either way.
 
Untied said:
I'm not confused here right? The plan is literally to travel from Dragonstone, beyond the wall, capture a wight, take it back to King's Landing to prove that the dead are real to Cersei, which then means the war between her and Danerys can be put on hold so all armies can travel north to defend the wall. And this needs to be done before the army of the dead reaches the wall from Hardhome. Like that is the plan?

Let's map that plan out…

3ZFMIlC.jpg
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The whitewalkers probably walked the wrong way after hardholm, pretty sure they don't have google maps in the afterlife.
 
"Yeah, lets write it so he charges at a Dragon then gets pushed out of the way in the very last second and sinks into this sudden and very deep hole. Then his buddy drags him 300m under water and they escape because the victorious army that is looting this barren battlefield of ashes don't notice the general in his golden armour."

I can live with all the teleporting, but stuff like that is just so cheap and dumb that it's impossible to swallow.


Organic Potatoes said:
It was a wildly successful childrens' show at the time in Westeros.
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Keep your book talk out of this thread!!!!
 
Anyone else really hoping the hound would tell jon to bring him a fecking chicken?

Who's everyone's money on in a triple threat match with jon, jorah and the hound? Jons beat a whitewalker, jorah beat a high ranking dothraki warrior and the hound is invincible unless brienne has a rock in her hand against him.

I'd go for jorah personally
 
Jagga7 said:
The whole Daenerys can't take the city with her dragons is becoming a joke of a plot. Cerci blew up the Sept and everyone follows her no problem now. They could easily fly in Drogon and take out Cerci while she's in the Red Keep and they'd be little to no civilian causalities.
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Then you dont understand the difference between Cersei and Dany. With Cersei they follow her cause they fear her. With Dany she wants them to follow her cause they want to not because they are forced to. If she wanted to do what Cersei did, she could have taken Kings Landing by now, no questions asked.
 
Arbitrium said:
Anyone else really hoping the hound would tell jon to bring him a fecking chicken?

Who's everyone's money on in a triple threat match with jon, jorah and the hound? Jons beat a whitewalker, jorah beat a high ranking dothraki warrior and the hound is invincible unless brienne has a rock in her hand against him.

I'd go for jorah personally
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Jorah? He almost died fighting in the pits of Meereen. Hound is more powerful than Jon but I think Jon is quicker than the Hound and that ultimately will work in his favor.
 
Any chance of ser friendzone trying to take out John beyond the wall? Looked a bit like he thought Jon was trying to steal his glory when they had him announce he would lead the ranging.
 
Arbitrium said:
Anyone else really hoping the hound would tell jon to bring him a fecking chicken?

Who's everyone's money on in a triple threat match with jon, jorah and the hound? Jons beat a whitewalker, jorah beat a high ranking dothraki warrior and the hound is invincible unless brienne has a rock in her hand against him.

I'd go for jorah personally
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Jorah got lucky when the Dothraki arakh got stuck in his armour. The Hound is good but Jon has killed a white walker, survived Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards and has a Valyrian steel sword. Jon all the way.

Christ, I'm a nerd.
 
I must admit, the plan to bring a wight back as proof that the undead are marching is pretty absurd. Even if they did capture one quickly and brought it to Kings Landing and Cersei decided to obey and come to aid. It would all surely be too late anyway? I know the time lines are being somewhat ignored this season but they wouldn't be able to get all the troops organised in time.

Surely it would make far more sense for the greater good to simply attack Kings Landing kill the Lannisters, become the rightful Queen and order everyone North. Obviously not all the Houses would accept Daenerys but the majority would bend the knee. Instead they're risking Jon and co for an insane mission with not much chance of success. Seems a bit stupid to me. But it's the brain child of Tyrion and Jon Snow and their plans tend to be fecking stupid I suppose.
 
Untied said:
I'm not confused here right? The plan is literally to travel from Dragonstone, beyond the wall, capture a wight, take it back to King's Landing to prove that the dead are real to Cersei, which then means the war between her and Danerys can be put on hold so all armies can travel north to defend the wall. And this needs to be done before the army of the dead reaches the wall from Hardhome. Like that is the plan?

Let's map that plan out…

3ZFMIlC.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes it's stupid so was Jaimie escaping from the battle.
 
@RedSky
On top of that I think it's pretty obvious that Cersei wouldn't jut give in even if they show her a proof. She'd gladly watch the north go under as long as it distracts Dany and gives her an opening.
Remember when Ned tried to warn her and she basically told him: when you play the GoT you're all-in. You win or you die.

Tyrion must know this too, so I don't think he would/should entertain this idea even for a second, especially when it means sending Jon on (yet another) suicide mission, when he clearly has a good influence on Dany (convincing her not to use her Dragons against KL, when Tyrion couldn't get through).
 
RedSky said:
I must admit, the plan to bring a wight back as proof that the undead are marching is pretty absurd. Even if they did capture one quickly and brought it to Kings Landing and Cersei decided to obey and come to aid. It would all surely be too late anyway? I know the time lines are being somewhat ignored this season but they wouldn't be able to get all the troops organised in time.

Surely it would make far more sense for the greater good to simply attack Kings Landing kill the Lannisters, become the rightful Queen and order everyone North. Obviously not all the Houses would accept Daenerys but the majority would bend the knee. Instead they're risking Jon and co for an insane mission with not much chance of success. Seems a bit stupid to me. But it's the brain child of Tyrion and Jon Snow and their plans tend to be fecking stupid I suppose.
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They've basically decided to bag it up like it's an angry raccoon, take it to Kings Landing and let it loose in the castle. Laurel and Hardy hijinks.
 
Hate how Tyrian has been marginalized this season. Getting outsmarted at every turn by Cersei and Jaime ffs. And that stupid line to Jaime when he says something to the effect of "do you think I wanted to be born like this?" Completely out of character. :mad:
 
do.ob said:
@RedSky
On top of that I think it's pretty obvious that Cersei wouldn't jut give in even if they show her a proof. She'd gladly watch the north go under as long as it distracts Dany and gives Cersei an opening.
Remember when Ned tried to warn her and she basically told him: when you play the GoT you're all-in. You win or you die.

Tyrion must know this too, so I don't think he would/should entertain this idea even for a second.
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Indeed. All seems a bit... questionable? What do they hope to achieve anyway? Even if they do bring a wight and Cersei accepts it, she's still not going to stand down from her throne. So they'll still have to deal with each other afterwards anyway. So why delay the inevitable? Why not just sack the Red Keep and be done with it. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of them going North of the wall again, but I think the reason for it is stupid. Why not have Sam find something really useful in the North via books and a desperate attempt is launched to try and retrieve said item before the White Walkers hit the Wall?
 
Man of Leisure said:
Hate how Tyrian has been marginalized this season. Getting outsmarted at every turn by Cersei and Jaime ffs. And that stupid line to Jaime when he says something to the effect of "do you think I wanted to be born like this?" Completely out of character. :mad:
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It's strange the way his dialogue has gotten so weak since season 4. He's probably given some of the best on screen performances throughout the entire show, and now he's been reduced to such simple stuff that really doesn't involve much acting.
 
maybe her character will have a redemption arc, where she uses the wildfire against the whitewalkers
 
kps88 said:
That really felt awkward to me. They both fell in right next to Daenerys, looked certain they were going to be pulled out by the Dothraki and captured.
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One of the cut chapters from the book pretty much prove bronn could swim faster than a shark, and had the underwater power abilities of aquaman.
 
Arbitrium said:
It's strange the way his dialogue has gotten so weak since season 4. He's probably given some of the best on screen performances throughout the entire show, and now he's been reduced to such simple stuff that really doesn't involve much acting.
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I'd say the issue is consistency. Some of his scenes in 5-7 have been great, others have been awkward and out of character. I guess the issue comes from the fact the source material has run out and George certainly seems like someone who thinks everything he writes down to the tiniest detail and cross references everything over and over again to ensure it's all good. That's why the first 4 Seasons are so tight in terms of dialogue and plot.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Yes it's stupid so was Jaimie escaping from the battle.
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Haven't watched the episode yet, but even though I was 99.9% sure he'd somehow end up "safe" - it's just a bit unbelievable, isn't it? You literally just tried to kill Danaerys a few seconds ago, who has a massive dragon standing there right next to the water you just fell into with your heavy armor (sinking to the bottom no less!), her army having just annihilated yours and you're a Lannister....why would Danaerys simply not keep looking for you/your body (if she believed you to have drowned)?

It's not like that stretch of water was that vast that you could somehow manage to swim and escape anyway?

Like I said, I haven't watched the episode yet, so there could be a better explanation, but from what I read on here that Bronn simply "dragged" him out of the water on the other side of the river/water - to safety....come on!

Would have been much more plausible if he got captured and either used as a pawn or Tyrion somehow managing to convince Dany not to kill him.
 
RedSky said:
I'd say the issue is consistency. Some of his scenes in 5-7 have been great, others have been awkward and out of character. I guess the issue comes from the fact the source material has run out and George certainly seems like someone who thinks everything he writes down to the tiniest detail and cross references everything over and over again to ensure it's all good. That's why the first 4 Seasons are so tight in terms of dialogue and plot.
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I feel like his delivery has got significantly weaker though, albeit the material he has to work with has been a bit different from his court room rant. That speech is a lot of people's favourite ever scene in the show in terms of dialogue, he quite clearly has the balls to say what's on his mind in an alpha-male way, but he's resorted to almost sympathetic reasoning with Dany.
 
The Blackwater Rush is, as the name implies, a very fast-flowing river. Bronn and Jaime could have used the current to quickly swim downstream and out of sight away from the battleground.

At least that would sort of explain things. I didn't even consider the possibility of Jaime and Bronn escaping when they took the plunge a week ago.
 
Did Dany even know who it was that was charging her? I think we have a case here of people assuming that because they are sitting at home watching the show and know something is happening and who is doing it, then that means everyone in the show knows it also.

Yup she turns at the last minute to see him, but remember she has no idea what Jaime Lannister looks like, so to her it is most likely just another Lannister soldier attacking her. Plus Drogon turns his head in front of her so she does not see what happens to Jaime. For all she knows he burned up. So while Tyrion was looking for some sign of Jaime, why would Dany or any of the Dothraki for that matter?

Tyrion does not seem in a hurry to have Jaime killed, so he most likely would not be tipping off any of the Dothraki to look for Jaime.

Now yeah if we assume they swam that entire way underwater, it's a bit of a stretch, but a bit of a common stretch we see in movies/shows all the time.
 
JustAFan said:
Did Dany even know who it was that was charging her? I think we have a case here of people assuming that because they are sitting at home watching the show and know something is happening and who is doing it, then that means everyone in the show knows it also.

Yup she turns at the last minute to see him, but remember she has no idea what Jaime Lannister looks like, so to her it is most likely just another Lannister soldier attacking her. Plus Drogon turns his head in front of her so she does not see what happens to Jaime. For all she knows he burned up. So while Tyrion was looking for some sign of Jaime, why would Dany or any of the Dothraki for that matter?

Tyrion does not seem in a hurry to have Jaime killed, so he most likely would not be tipping off any of the Dothraki to look for Jaime.

Now yeah if we assume they swam that entire way underwater, it's a bit of a stretch, but a bit of a common stretch we see in movies/shows all the time.
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I assume his armor gave away his rank. Also Tyrion spotted him from a mile away and then just forgot about him?



Jon vs Jorah
stepped in as the son old Mormont never had
wields the family sword
gets friendly with the Dragons
gets really friendly with Dany in a way Jorah never could - Jorah: I'll lead the ranging | Dany: fine -> Jon: I'll go too | Dany: oh noe you can't I don't want you to :***(
Jorah wants to go off on the mission to be a hero -> Jon: I'll lead that mission and be the bigger hero

Plus Jon is selfless and "good" in a way that must be extremely annoying for a more nuanced character like Jorah.
 
do.ob said:
I assume his armor gave away his rank. Also Tyrion spotted him from a mile away and then just forgot about him?



Jon vs Jorah
stepped in as the son old Mormont never had
wields the family sword
gets friendly with the Dragons
gets really friendly with Dany in a way Jorah never could - Jorah: I'll lead the ranging | Dany: fine -> Jon: I'll go too | Dany: oh noe you can't I don't want you to :***(
Jorah wants to go off on the mission to be a hero -> Jon: I'll lead that mission and be the bigger hero

Plus Jon is selfless and "good" in a way that must be extremely annoying for a more nuanced character like Jorah.
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Jorah is about 30 years her senior. Fair play if he ever taps it.
 
do.ob said:
I assume his armor gave away his rank. Also Tyrion spotted him from a mile away and then just forgot about him?



.
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But again from Dany's perspective, watch the scene again Drogon blocks her view, she may very well assume whoever that dumb bastard is that just charged her, well he's a pile of ash now isn't he. Plus it all happened quickly, so she might not have taken in all the details of his armor and such. It really is not a stretch to assume that Dany had no clue who charged her or that she knew he was in the river. Remember our vantage point as viewers is not the same one the characters in the show are seeing.

Tyrion did seem to be looking for something on the battlefield, though he might just have been taking in all the damage. Plus as I said, I don't think he is in a big hurry to see his brother at best a prisoner or in the worst case dragon food. So yeah I think Tyrion might have not said a word to Dany even if he knew Jaime was in the river. Plus as we saw later in the show, he may have felt the best chance of a peaceful solution is having Jaime around their evil bitch sister.
 
RDCR07 said:
Then you dont understand the difference between Cersei and Dany. With Cersei they follow her cause they fear her. With Dany she wants them to follow her cause they want to not because they are forced to. If she wanted to do what Cersei did, she could have taken Kings Landing by now, no questions asked.
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Yes that's the stupid logic the show is using. It really does make no sense though.
 
Yeah thats the only 2 things that really annoyed me: Jamie escaping as easily as he did with Bronn. He was pretty deep end of last ep so it required Bronn to dive in deep, hold him and help drag him to the other side of the water all whilst not being seen. Would have been nice if they tried to capture the person that ran at Dany trying to kill her (regardless of who it was). Tyrion wouldnt say 'thats jamie' but surely having an eye out rather than assuming they are dead would make more sense? Dunno.

Also what has Euron been doing all this time? Has he just been torturing Yara? Im assuming a few weeks if not a month have passed since that moment
 
Tyrion didn't say anything to Dany because Dany would have the least amount of mercy on Jaime than anyone else she's come across. Dany gets a hold of Jaime, who charged at her with a spear, its death by dragon fire for JL.

Dany is used to handsome people on horseback trying to poke her with a spear though :lol:
 
Really like where its going, think it could have done with another season's worth of episodes though just to give it a bit more focus, Its properly "big thing happening at x, big thing happening at y jump to big thing happening at A, big reveal about B" every episode without enough time to properly digest it.
 
JustAFan said:
But again from Dany's perspective, watch the scene again Drogon blocks her view, she may very well assume whoever that dumb bastard is that just charged her, well he's a pile of ash now isn't he. Plus it all happened quickly, so she might not have taken in all the details of his armor and such. It really is not a stretch to assume that Dany had no clue who charged her or that she knew he was in the river. Remember our vantage point as viewers is not the same one the characters in the show are seeing.

Tyrion did seem to be looking for something on the battlefield, though he might just have been taking in all the damage. Plus as I said, I don't think he is in a big hurry to see his brother at best a prisoner or in the worst case dragon food. So yeah I think Tyrion might have not said a word to Dany even if he knew Jaime was in the river. Plus as we saw later in the show, he may have felt the best chance of a peaceful solution is having Jaime around their evil bitch sister.
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Someone gets within a whisker of killing the most important person on the battlefield and no one notices or even decides to look for him? Finding them couldn't be that hard considering they had dozens of horses and a dragon at their disposal. Just didn't feel right or earned to me.

The Tyrion stuff you mentioned would have actually been a very interesting plot point to explore.

I don't usually like nitpicking like this, but these small things are adding up each episode to the point where they become distracting. It makes the decision to end the last episode with the shot of him sinking with armor on even more ridiculous.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Yes that's the stupid logic the show is using. It really does make no sense though.
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I think it makes sense. They are trying to show the irony between Cersei and Dany - how the Mad King's daughter isnt like her father but now we have a Queen who is like the Mad King and isnt afraid to burn down the land if it means she still sits on the throne. Tyrion and Missandei said how they "want" to follow Dany because she gave them her freedom and as a result they are more loyal to her than the Lannister army to Cersei cause they fight for her due to fear. The Lannister army surrendered to Dany. You think the Dothraki would surrender to Cersei if they are captured? They are loyal to Dany and hence would rather burn than serve another king/queen.
 
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JustAFan said:
But again from Dany's perspective, watch the scene again Drogon blocks her view, she may very well assume whoever that dumb bastard is that just charged her, well he's a pile of ash now isn't he. Plus it all happened quickly, so she might not have taken in all the details of his armor and such. It really is not a stretch to assume that Dany had no clue who charged her or that she knew he was in the river. Remember our vantage point as viewers is not the same one the characters in the show are seeing.
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Thats actually a very good point. Dany does indeed not know who Jaime is or what he looks like. She saw Drogon breathe fire and might have assumed the people who charged her are dead.
 
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