I think that's wrong. Her reaction was all about Arya's new skills. It had nothing to do with Brienne.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
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I think that's wrong. Her reaction was all about Arya's new skills. It had nothing to do with Brienne.
I think it's starting to become clear Sansa knows that Littlefinger is a manipulator, only worrying about himself. She even said to Bran that Littlefinger never gives anything for free without a reason. I think she's on to him, and is playing him.
These could be really good if someone with a sense of humour made them!
Agree with those above, too. 'The Winds of Winter' is my favourite episode of the show - every single element of that was pitch perfect. An utter masterpiece.
In terms of battle scenes, I think we've had better, too. 'The Battle of the Bastards' was better choreographed and it had the suspense of not knowing what would happen. The element of suspense is eliminated once you have a few hundred men attacked by thousands of Dothraki and a fecking fire-breathing dragon.
It was a few thousand men, you can tell that with the aerial shots as the line of soldiers was at least 1 mile wide and they were 3/4 ranks deep. @SmashedHombre I think the purpose of setting fire to the caravan was to prevent the Lannisters from running away and ensuring she didn't hit her own troops. She trapped them for slaughter.
Also, the theme of Daenerys' plot that episode was 'inspire the innocent rather than killing them'. That was the point of the conversation between Jon/Davos and Missandei and then the further conversation when Daenerys asked Jon for advice on the beach. By killing the Lannister army, the south will rise to Daenerys not because their Lords tell them but because Daenerys destroyed invaders (this is assuming that the Dothraki don't pillage and raid which i'm sure they've been ordered not too as they need the locals on their side to provide the food). She did what many thought was impossible, crush the Lannisters. Also now that she's committed her troops on land, I guess that means Euron will be less useful.
Stannis and his army were on boats, they simply sailed around the wall
Nah, still doesn't make sense. She has a dragon and the Dothraki have horses, they could have run down any Lannisters (that did somehow manage to escape) at leisure.
Also surely the Dothraki are the invaders? The Lannisters are the rulers of the south.
Guess you guys are right. Its just that the way people remark at her sword, it made me think that it was also Valyrian Steel
Well what else was she meant to do with her dragon when the Lannisters formed a long line and the Dothraki were already engaged? Just fly around? She was killing Lannister troops as well as destroying the Caraven.
Lannisters are basically the Brummies of Westeros. The south is controlled by the Tyrells (south west) and the Martells (south east).
Dothraki are not Westeros true, but the Lannisters just killed all of the main house of their area (Tyrells) and then stole their gold and plundered their land for food. So in the mindset of the average citizen, they'd be despising the Lannisters and would be extremely happy to see Daenerys crush them. It's also worth pointing out that the Tarlys just betrayed the Tyrells in a very similar way to how the Boltons betrayed the Starks. So the Tarlys will be hated by the other houses of the south west just as much as most of the North hated the Boltons).
The Lannisters just stole a large part of the reach' food supply. So doubt the people of the reach think highly of them.
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They were talking about the dagger
Well, yeah.The Dothraki would have ridden over the Lannisters in no time. Alternatively she should have just torched the whole Lannister line and let the Dothraki run down any survivors. Burning all the supplies just made zero sense.
House Lannister sit on the throne and are the rulers of the Westerlands- that makes Daenarys the invader as she invaded Lannister lands. Maybe the Tyrells will be happy to see the Lannisters crushed, but at the same time the Lannisters will be happy to see the Targaryans crushed. There is no good guy in this show and Daenarys just burned thousands of soldiers alive, she has no high road.
I don't think you're understanding my point but no worries. I'm not sure I have the will power to explain it a 3rd time.
This is exactly how I see it, and exactly why I find the pandering to, and cheerleading of, Daenarys so galling.
She is as self-entitled as anyone in the show, if not more.
Jon's a pretty "good guy" to be fair in the shows context. Most of the shows more "likeable" / "good" characters are blokes it seems... like him, Davos, Lord FriendZone etc.
The only two main female characters the show doesn't present as being a bit bitchy/power mad are Brianne and Arya, and even Arya is turning into a bit of a psychopath.
It's war Buchan. The difference is that Cersie murdered well over a hundred innocent people in Kings Landing with Wildfire and destroyed a Religious building, Jamie killed the Mad King when he threatened to do the same. Daenerys wanted to do the same in this very episode but was argued not too by Tyrion and Jon Snow and instead she attacked a Military target. She hasn't killed any civilians yet (in Westeros), Cersie has done.
The Lannister soldiers obviously had no say in what Cersie did, but she is essentially the Mad King now. She's as Evil as they come, there is no grey area with her character. Jamie has abandoned his morals by following her as did the Tarlys by betraying their natural Lord and breaking the oath. They made the same decision the Boltons did to the Starks. The only difference in all of this is that the Tarlys haven't had enough screen time to hate the father as much as we did Lord Bolton.
It's a shame that they're ruining Jamies character really. If you go back to Season 3 when he was in the bath with Brienne and he discussed what happened with the Mad King his reason for murdering him was to save the people. Yet when confronted with the same scenario with Cersie he lets it slide because he likes to poke her vagina. Ignoring the fact that her doing it led to his final child dying and the hundreds of innocent people that she murdered. It makes his reasoning for killing the Mad King a load of bullshit in hindsight.
did she know what was in the wagons? If not she was just going for all out destruction of the enemy.
Thanks mate, thats what I thought too, I went back and watched episode 7 again when he goes to the iron bank and gets funding for the war. It still doesn't make sense though quite how 8000 men subdued an army of 100,000. I think the only explanation is because they captured the leader and thus everyone else just surrendered. Like a few plots so far throughout the programme, that's a bit of a stretch. It does aways leave a fair bit for the viewer to piece together themselves. I don't mind that, it's just with so many characters and sub plots it can be difficult to remember everything all the time. Well especially for me anyway
Maybe i should have waited another year before watching. I'd read the books but @Locka has put me off explaining the format, I don't think I could be arsed with it tbf.
Even if she did, it's kind of hard to control fire like that. Like what happens if everyone on the ground just went and stood by the wagons?
Thanks mate, thats what
I thought too, I went back and watched episode 7 again when he goes to the iron bank and gets funding for the war. It still doesn't make sense though quite how 8000 men subdued an army of 100,000. I think the only explanation is because they captured the leader and thus everyone else just surrendered. Like a few plots so far throughout the programme, that's a bit of a stretch. It does aways leave a fair bit for the viewer to piece together themselves. I don't mind that, it's just with so many characters and sub plots it can be difficult to remember everything all the time. Well especially for me anyway
I'd read the books but @Locka has put me off explaining the format, I don't think I could be arsed with it tbf.
Well in Medieval times Calvary were the tanks of that era and would obliterate armies with no Calvary. So although it does seem a bit crazy on screen, it's not that unbelievable. I would advise you don't post in here though Wang as you might read something that will spoil the rest for you. Feel free to spam me questions until you've caught up.
Or you can click on threadmarks and read the posts we were making at the same time. Most of your questions will probably be being discussed at that time.
Does it even matter what was in there? If it was food she could use it. If it was weapons/armor she could use it. If it was gold she could use it. Destroying your loot when you overwhelm the enemy seem entirely pointless to me under any circumstances.
Also in some shots you can see how she clearly targets the wagons.
I don't think they are ruining him at all. As early as in the first episode we see him (try to) kill an innocent child. Family (Cersei) is the most imporatant thing in the world for him and it trumps his morals. It's his inner conflict we've seen throughout the show.
And aside from that it's not uncommon for people to grow less idealistic and more cynical/indifferent with age.
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I think its more to show that Jon already has the loyalty of the other Lords and now Ayra instantly won the loyalty/admiration of Brienne planting the seed that Sansa should seize power for herself. Pretty much what Littlefinger said would happen.
Littlefingers next betrayal is blatantly obvious and wishing it would just be over and done with now. Im hoping its a case of the audience are being played and we and Littlefinger are being led to believe Sansa will side with him and she doesn't.
Well in Medieval times Calvary were the tanks of that era and would obliterate armies with no Calvary. So although it does seem a bit crazy on screen, it's not that unbelievable. I would advise you don't post in here though Wang as you might read something that will spoil the rest for you. Feel free to spam me questions until you've caught up.
Thanks mate, I think that's the best option
I was posting with my hand over the screen as to not see anything Although the fecking adverts on Sky don't help nor do the picture adverts on Sky On Demand, as they often feature pictures of various characters in series 7 and the one thing about this show is you never know who will die and when. Sky have kind of ruined that for me a bit. Seems like his entire character arc has reverted straight back to what he was in Season 1 Episode 1. If family was so important to him then he'd mourn the loss of his father and kids, instead he raped Cersie when Joffers bit the dust (right next to his body) and then couldn't give a damn when the other two died. All he does is live to serve Cersie and that's it. He was developing into a really good character back in Season 3/4, but he's just as much a robot as the Mountain is.
Thanks mate, I think that's the best option
Yeah, if you can be bothered i'd read through the threadmarks now and then. Some of the reactions is pretty funny as are the arguments/discussions we've had. It's why the threadmarks exist.
I never got why he did that? Was so bizarre.
I was actually coming around to liking him but like you said he's doing a u-turn back.
I see Dany's goal in that battle as destruction of the enemy force so yeah with the wagons and soldiers all mixed up torching the lot of them really is not that odd a decision. Especially since she had no idea what was in them.
This was a message battle. Send the word my dothraki and dragon are unleashed and we intend to destroy completely any army in our way!
This was the overwhelming victory she needed to try and turn the war around.
This was a message battle. Send the word my dothraki and dragon are unleashed and we intend to destroy completely any army in our way!
This was the overwhelming victory she needed to try and turn the war around.
I tend to agree with this. They are less subtle and more blatant with these things on the show now. Sansa is clearly, imo, being set up to look like she'll side with Littlefinger but I highly doubt she will, it seems like they are trying too hard to make it look that way. It would also explain why no one seems to be talking about what he's done, nor Bran actually saying anything useful. They are stringing it out whilst we wait for the characters at Winterfell to actually be drawn into something to do.
I don't think it's that simple. First of all he's an elite soldier and leader in a time of crisis, extensive mourning isn't in his job description. Then you have to factor in that he in a way had to keep up appearances since officially the kids weren't really his - something which might also cause a relatively distant relationship to them. And last but not least him not mourning Joffrey imho was part of his inner conflict, because it can be explained by him seeing Joffrey for what he really was and thus seeing his death as inevitable. And his relation to his father wasn't the best
On the other hand he helped Tyrion escape when Cersei wanted him dead and iirc he gave Brienne the sword when she was technically working against Cersei's will.
To me Jaime is a good guy who got corrupted by Cersei / his duty to Tywin and my guess is that somewhere along the way that will be adressed.
I wouldn't be surprised if he "betrays" or even kills Cersei at some point when she attempts something insane in the face of losing to Dany
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I don't buy that. We've seen him isolated and away from everyone except Cersie and not once has he mourned for his children. He also clearly gives a shit about Joffrey as seen by him rushing to his body during his death scene. He's shown feck all reaction to any of the other childrens deaths and not once did he question what the feck Cersie has been doing. I also find it ridiculous given his history that he hasn't put together the similarity of the Mad King and Cersei, its identical.
Queen of Thorns was right, he's a slave to her. But the problem is that we've been shown his inner conflict about the Mad King scenario but when dealt with a similar situation we've seen no conflict in him. He's reverted back to "the things we do for love" mode. Which is basically a character reset. I'd have expected a bit more for his character given we're 7 Seasons in. Perhaps his character is suffering from the Season speedup.
Didn't he cry with Mrycella in his arms at the end of the stupid Dorne sideplot? You would have expected him to rush to Joffery at the Purple Wedding regardless as he still his ''uncle'' and he is still Kingsguard at that point. But yeah Jamies character seems to have gotten lost along the way. Although you could probably argue that he is too conflicted by his feelings for Cersei to act against her.
Thanks mate, thats what I thought too, I went back and watched episode 7 again when he goes to the iron bank and gets funding for the war. It still doesn't make sense though quite how 8000 men subdued an army of 100,000. I think the only explanation is because they captured the leader and thus everyone else just surrendered. Like a few plots so far throughout the programme, that's a bit of a stretch. It does aways leave a fair bit for the viewer to piece together themselves. I don't mind that, it's just with so many characters and sub plots it can be difficult to remember everything all the time. Well especially for me anyway
I'd read the books but @Locka has put me off explaining the format, I don't think I could be arsed with it tbf.
Yeah I think the problem I had with that battle was that it didn't really show the true scale of the wildling army, just watching it now looked like there were a couple of 100 haha.
A few things I noticed though
Wildlings were caught off guard & I don't believe they've ever fought an army that big before let alone one entirely on horseback. Wildlings are not disciplined in the way most of the professional armies are, they fight as individuals and not as a group.
Although I think the biggest thing was being attacked from both sides and not actually being able to see them coming for the most part due to the forest.
He kinda did when he changed her mind about the way she wanted to off Olenna, he realized so much savagery wasn't needed.
Don't think so. They hug when she tells him he she knows he's her dad and then she dies in his arms but there's nothing more to it. You don't really get a reaction from Jamie from what I remember. Agree with your last sentence, but you'd expect some kind of inner struggle and argument. I don't think we've seen a reaction in Season 7 to Tommens death or her blowing up part of Kings Landing. He just accepts it. I should probably rewatch Episode 1 as I don't remember the scenes very well. But from memory we have no speech along the lines of "what the feck are you doing blowing up Kings Landing!".
Ah well. I guess now that we're relying on tv writers the writing is going to deteriorate.
That is comfortably the best television scene I have ever seen, and one of the best episodes I've ever seen in general. Incredible.
looks like he is being set up to defect again. The pained look on his face when the Dothraki said 'your people can't fight, the prospect of him saving his beloved brother from execution and the fact that Jamie now knows he didn't kill Joff. He might even save his buddy Bron too.
My theory is that history will basically repeat itself. Cersei will stand in the throne room commanding her armies and loyalists to "burn them all", and Jamie does the same thing he did the last time a ruler gave commands like that, becoming Queenslayer as well. After killing his only purpose in life, he'll kill himself right after.
It could also be that if you take a dragon to a battle, it will feck shit up. Maybe Dany didn't have as much control as we think, dragon just destroying everything in sight regardless if it would be useful...but that what's you get.
Yeah a lot of the Dorne subplot I've blurred from memory so while I could tell you what happened Im not sure how or who reacted