IMO, Daenery's is a very inconsistent character that is sometimes difficult to support. One moment she acts like a deer in headlights not understanding anything and taking advice from everyone like she's clueless and the other she acts all tough. It is hard to take her seriously when she acts all "Mother of Dragons!" when you've just seen her being totally clueless just seconds ago.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
Everyone gets advice from other people no matter who you are.
I was thinking the same today. Not as dramatic as you as I have liked quite a few other characters from time to time. But Cersei is brilliant. One of the reasons why winds of winter is also probably my favourite episode along with Hardhome. The music and cersei makes that one of the most gripping watch ever in Got history.
Disappointed at the lack of pedantry in here this week. I mean seriously, how deep could that water have possibly been? Ridiculous
I think this tends to happen more and more in all TV series as they approach the end.
We still havent seen Ghost this season have we? I mean I know he is in Winterfell but since he is the only remaining domesticated direwolf, there could have been a scene where the 3 siblings meet him.
There's getting advice and then there's literally being clueless "erm.. do queens do this? Should I do this? Please tell me" and then when she acts tough she makes that very cringy touch/smile face. It's not believable.
Like 99 percent of her decisions are carried out by Tyrion and her staff.
I think you're looking at it from an overall view point of an audience. But put yourself in her shoes. First, she wants to do things the right way but not burning cities to the ground. So she goes with the plan of her staff since she is new to Westeros. But that plan goes tits up when her three allies are taken from her. In that moment, she is thinking Im backed into a corner so should I abandon my whole plan and just burn Kings Landing to the ground? Then she takes advice from Jon who is so similar to her in terms of the way they do things and get reassurances of still doing things the right way.
Disappointed at the lack of pedantry in here this week. I mean seriously, how deep could that water have possibly been? Ridiculous
Yeah that was odd, but then again it is fairly typical movie/tv show thing to do. Show someone sinking in what seems like deep water only to have it not be that deep actually and someone reaches in and rescues them. I think they used it twice in the LoTR series. Once when Sam went after Frodo who was rowing away, Sam seemed to sink quite a bit, but Frodo just reached in and grabbed him. Then when Frodo fell into the swamp with all the dead guys in it. I think it is one of the symbolic things movie/show makers like to use about how the person feels like they are sinking into deep water but really aren't or some weird thing like that.
Yeah but seeing someone like that, who struggles so much to come up with any decision, is difficult to support. Also difficult to take her seriously when she is serious. Take John Snow on the other hand and how he dealt with the decision to go to Dragon Stone. He sought advice but was firm in his decision. Even when he's firm he doesn't over do it.
After loathing the whole Sam Tarly arc for seasons, I am finally liking him during this one. Still think his wife is annoying but Sam isn't all that bad. The fact that the secret cure for Jorah Mormont was literally peeling of the scales and applying an ointment was a bit silly but it was a feel good moment so I don't mind it much
I thought that episode was going to be really bad after Jon took her into those caves and showed her the paintings. It was so cheesy. I think the worse possible ending to GoT would be all the warring factions chumming up to fight the Nightking and his buddies. Like some sort of horrible message about the benefits of cooperation and unity.
The last two episodes are as nailed on to be epic as the next is to be a disappointing bore for most.
My season finale prediction is still on course though, so I'm glad about that.
Another way to look at it, they are probably being a bit more accurate to human behavior by not having her and Jon react the exact same way to being thrown into some what similar situations.
What's your prediction ?
I hope everyone is ready for the VERY long wait after the next few weeks. It's going to kill me
Jon Snow had no choice. Also he had made up his mind to go. His "asking" for advice was just a courtesy telling his fellow people of the North. Dany has a choice - either go gung ho and destroy everything or take a more "diplomatic" approach.
That would be something that makes quite a lot of sense with how the show has gone so far. Cersei has been on Arya's list since the beginning, so if Arya finishes her arc by completing the list she has to face Cersei somehow. They've also shown Arya fighting very capably against Brienne, so winning a hand-to-hand versus a one-armed Jaime isn't much of a stretch, and lets face it, Jaime needs to at least get a chance fight for his life for his character considering his significance to the show. If he just gets stabbed in the back by a lurking Arya it would be so anticlimactic.
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The finale will have The Wall collapsing. Somehow related to whatever happened with Bran when the Night King touched him in a vision and the magic protecting the cave was affected.
And then everyone is like, 'ah feck, we've been doing this all wrong!'
And then everyone is like, 'ah feck, we've been doing this all wrong!'
Can you guys please title the spoiler or at least let us know what the spoiler is in regards to so we can decide if we want to read it or not?
Yeah, if that spoiler is true pretty douche
You're not referring to mine, are you? I try to title them unless it's not obvious what I'm guessing at.
and now with him be the TER, he is the biggest voyeur in the kingdom. Wenger would love this.I think you've kinda misread what I put in the first paragraph and it's affected how you've digested in the rest of my post.
I agree that Daenerys has left leaning politics, what with her liberation of the slave cities, but she's learnt over the course of six seasons that she can't beat the system via liberal means, and the people around her aren't afraid to tell her that. She's ultimately had to win by fire and blood, and she's developed a taste for it. This was great when she was burning fascists, killing slave owners and stamping out right-wing rebel militia groups (which is essentially what the Sons of the Harpy were). We could gladly cheer her on as she went about those plans because she knows how to sack cities and remove their hideous leaders.
The problem for her is that she can't quite sustain peace once she's settled in as the ruling party. She liberates Astapor and Yunkai in season three but immediately leaves them behind. By season four they've both returned to slavery and by season six the masters of both cities have exploited the power vacuum, taken back control and attacked Meereen. Her entire storyline in Meereen was essentially proof that she's useless at ruling and constantly needs advice on how to compromise. It was yet another city she waded into and took over with relative ease but struggled to understand the history of. In the end she was almost driven completely out of town until she returned to defeat the slave masters by force, again. It was self-defense but force all the same.
Now, however, she's got other things on her mind. She doesn't just want the Iron Throne, she incorrectly believes that she has a birthright to that chair. That monologue she delivered to Jon in her throne room that ended with the words "I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms, and I will" was heightened arrogance at best and pure delusion at worst. She's a conqueror as opposed to a ruler, as Daario said in season six, and nothing that Daenerys has done since day one has swayed me from that opinion. In season two during her visit to Qarth she shouts "I will take what is mine - with fire and blood, I will take it!" By the looks of things she's not backing down from those words. Liberating slaves and murdering fascists is no longer on the table so she's got her radar firmly set on sitting in that chair, and she's willing to do anything to get it done as quickly as possible.
Daenerys is a new player to the Game of Thrones and it's changed her already as far as I'm concerned. She's now burning characters we sympathise to get that job done. Not just Jaime, Bronn and Dickon but young Lannister boys too. Lannister boys like the ones we got to know in the first episode of this season, the kids who'd rather be at home instead of fighting in someone else's wars. She's been impatient to use her dragons to seize Westeros ever since she had the chance to cross the Narrow Sea and Olenna's "Be a dragon" speech has essentially enabled her blood lust. She can and will crush anybody in her way now, ruling those who bend the knee by fear.
Along the way she will realise that as soon as she sits on that throne, someone will want to take it from her by any means necessary. My prediction is that she'll either be Queen of the Ashes or not queen at all.
No not you. A couple of posts above yours.
Aye, it's sort of spoiled just about everything else on tv for me.
I understood your point in the first place and i understand it now, it's just that i don't agree with it. First of all she has a better claim to the throne than anybody else now living in Westeros. 25 years after Robert's rebellion and Baratheons/Lannisters dynasty doesn't easily wipe out 3 centuries of Targaryen rule over Westeros that easily. When she says that she has a right to the throne these are not just empty words and we've been told in the show that there are lots of common folk who still consider the Targaryens as their rightful rulers.
But back to the main point i was making, you choose to see only the things about her that (may) hint towards her ending as another mad Queen. She's fighting against that and this is the struggle that we've been witnessing in her PoVs in the past 6 seasons. What you list in your second post are her failings. Well, she's not a Disney like Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty type of person waiting for her sweet Prince. She has flaws, lots of them, and after being sold by her brother for an army, after being raped by her husband and after being ridiculed by almost everyone she meets as a queen with no land or army, she feels angry, she's overly suspicious (see how she treats Tyrion and Varys now that things went south for her) and she has decided that she will take no shite from anyone. I can't blame her for that.
The struggle is obvious and it's the main thing in her whole story arc, will she remain a good person or will she give in to the violence. The very fact that she doesn't resolve to violence until violence becomes- what she sees as- a last resort, it's an indication that she hasn't yet crossed to the other side. The Lannister boys are soldiers at war who have killed Tyrell boys an episode earlier. Dany uses a "super weapon" that everybody involved in this war would use if he/she had it at his disposal. She didn't try to kill Jamie, the dragon simply tried to protect her and she doesn't know who Bronn is. And Dickon is a turncoat even if he feels bad about it.
To me the very fact that she tells Jon to bend the knee and a few moments later she apologies to House Stark for what the mad King did to them is an indication that she can keep her self in check. Maybe things will pan out the way you predict but i wasn't arguing about that. In my opinion it will be a waste of a good character. They can find ways to be done with her but more clever ways. An ending that will fit all this inner struggling in a world that demands of high nobles to act like vultures with little affection for the ones beneath them. Not a happy ending by any means but not a "caricature of the Mad King" type of ending either.
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All good points, these, mate. Thanks for clarifying. Sadly I can't form response to match the time and effort you took to post them, but know that I can't agree or disagree either way. I have my points and you have yours, but I've taken yours into account (especially your view that Dany uses violence as a last resort). I imagine the answer is somewhere in the middle of where we're both stood. We'll surely come back to this when it's all over.
I agree with a lot of your post but when he said that Dany isnt the rightful heir to the throne, he is right. Jon technically is. The realm just needs to find proof that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married AND that Jon is their son. Until then Dany is the rightful heir.
No, surely the rightful heir is Robert's son who rowed off in like season 2 and we havent seen since!
What happened to him
Isn't he technically a bastard since Rhaegar was married to Oberyn's sister in the first place? I thought that his relationship with Lyanna was kept secret and that secret cost Ned his head in the end.
If Rhaegar timed it right between the Mountain smashing his wife's head and Jon's conception, may be Jon hits the jackpot.
I think one of the themes of the show is that the idea of 'legitimacy' has been undermined and become increasingly haphazard or ad hoc. I mean, the only thing that gives the Targaryans legitimacy is dragons and legitimacy, not bloodline. I don't expect the show to end with the 'right' or most 'legitimate' contender on the throne.
Hope Sir Davoa tells Danny about Gendry and she decides to kill him, so she goes hunting for him before falling in love and they end up married