Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

@robinamicrowave
Well, the nitpicking of these small details stems from the fact that when you say 'this show has gone completely stoopid', you are inevitably challenged for proof in favor of your argument. And 'Yeah you know, it's just the number of small stupid things' is rarely accepted.
 
Redlambs said:
Yeah I missed that joke. Must have been funny. Spanner is a poster I like though, so I'll let it slide this time.


But then again, I also dislike the "don't watch it then" crew, because that view is stupid too.
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This is awkward then.. you're sort of like the Homer Simpson to my Frame Grimes.. :/
Nah you're cool
 
DatIrishFella said:
Thanks for that, I knew the Dorne storyline was a late inclusion, although I thought it was due to keeping NCW under contract has they had nothing for his character in season five.

Also, I'd hardly call that a scathing account from Sapochik, more like a grueling retelling of the hardships that would obviously come with directing the most expensive battle scene in TV history. It's one thing writing and story boarding it, and then facing what I'd assume is a logistical nightmare come filming, for everyone involved. Of course compromises are going to be needed.

I mean, the director is on record as saying how desperate he is to come back for season eight.
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This is the biggest show on TV at the moment, he's hardly going to bite the hands that feed isnt he? Point remains it was extremely amateurish, and as good as the director's effort, it showed.
 
Back to guesswork:

there's surely a snake on Danny's table. Could it be the Tyrell? There are no Tyrells on Yaras ship and she was whispering counter productive words to Danny.. Almost to make her second guess all the time and go with her gut instinct to rampage. I think the Tyrell mother wants revenge and she wants it now. The only person who is as direct and cunningful is Euron, and maybe she made a pact with him. Help him get the throne if he kills Cersei for her after marriage.
 
I've been guilty of having a bit of a moan about the way the show has gone. Probably because, as a book reader, it's gotten really frustrating to watch the growing disregard for the type of meticulous plot coherence and accountability that characterises Martin's writing. Not to mention the increasing number of characters whose nature the show writers have really departed from, and generally caricatured (Euron being the latest). But even for those who haven't read the books, the drop in quality since season 4 is obvious, the petty criticisms now are largely down to the growing gap between what the show was and what it has become.
 
Yer'on.
He's my kinda guy. Mustach and pirate like. And he kills whatever he likes to kill.
 
2cents said:
I've been guilty of having a bit of a moan about the way the show has gone. Probably because, as a book reader, it's gotten really frustrating to watch the growing disregard for the type of meticulous plot coherence and accountability that characterises Martin's writing. Not to mention the increasing number of characters whose nature the show writers have really departed from, and generally caricatured (Euron being the latest). But even for those who haven't read the books, the drop in quality since season 4 is obvious, the petty criticisms now are largely down to the growing gap between what the show was and what it has become.
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Speaking of meticulous writing, have you read 'Down and Out in Westeros'? I think you in particular would enjoy it.
 
VP89 said:
Back to guesswork:

there's surely a snake on Danny's table. Could it be the Tyrell? There are no Tyrells on Yaras ship and she was whispering counter productive words to Danny.. Almost to make her second guess all the time and go with her gut instinct to rampage. I think the Tyrell mother wants revenge and she wants it now. The only person who is as direct and cunningful is Euron, and maybe she made a pact with him. Help him get the throne if he kills Cersei for her after marriage.
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Im not convinced there is a snitch in Danny's camp but if there is it seems likely to be someone with a hatred of Targerians. Someone with better knowledge of the Mad King back story might know. Do the Tyrells have unsettled beef with thr Targerians?
 
GhastlyHun said:
@robinamicrowave
Well, the nitpicking of these small details stems from the fact that when you say 'this show has gone completely stoopid', you are inevitably challenged for proof in favor of your argument. And 'Yeah you know, it's just the number of small stupid things' is rarely accepted.
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I'm all for people criticising the writing decisions that nearly destabilised entire storylines - like anything that happened in Dorne, or the whole Arya/Jaqen/Waif fiasco last season, or the clumsy intentions behind Sansa keeping the Knights of the Vale a secret from Jon - because there really were no excuses for how those plot points nearly collapsed. Honestly, the fan theories surrounding those storylines were more interesting than what we actually ended being served, and the way each storyline was handled was a mess (hence their eagerness in s6 & s7 to move on from them quite quickly), so I've no issue with haphazard shit like that being criticised. I love the show unconditionally because way back when I first started watching it I was hugely depressed from an illness that left me bedridden, and it gave me something with deep mythology to obsess over until I was no longer bedridden, but those storylines I've mentioned (and little flecks of the dialogue in s6) really did test my patience.

But the kind of nitpicking I have an issue with, i.e. criticising every single tiny detail that doesn't perfectly add up, is taking the levels of scrutiny to an unfair height. The logic of this show has never been hugely consistent and the speed of time in each storyline has never been perfectly matched up; as I said just before, it's relied on bending the rules with deus ex machina, cheesy bombast, and high speed transit services to get one character from A to B. People are complaining about Jon travelling to Dragonstone too quickly in s7 when it took Tyrion six episodes of s1 to go from Winterfell to the Wall to the Inn at the Crossroads to the Eerie and back to King's Landing. Daenerys took four episodes of the first season to travel from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak. Littlefinger must have the skill of teleportation to move as quickly as he did in seasons 4 and 5. If people had always complained about this aspect of the show - using convenient narrative devices to keep things entertaining, making characters travel at the speed of light to keep things moving - then I'd have no issue with them raising these issues now. But these sorts of complaints only ever reference events that happened once the show had moved past the books.

It's a double standard which says, to me, that GRRM fans can't warm to how the show has changed in the last three seasons. And that's fine, if you grew up reading the books it must be a bit frustrating. But to carry on watching a show just to pick holes in it and attempt to put down people's reasons for enjoying it is a waste of everyone's time. Some occasionally sloppy dialogue and accelerated plot movement might be a bit annoying, but I much prefer it to waiting seven/eight years for an increasingly unwieldy 1,000+ page book. If GRRM's fans are unhappy with Game of Thrones since they stopped being able to reference his source material then maybe they should encourage him to hurry up and stop taking on side projects.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The other major failing of this production was the casting of Kit Harrington and Emelia Clarke. Both are sub standard actors for a show of this size.
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Kit Harrington isnt bad per say. But I think Emilia Clarke is trying to toooo hard to be this bad ass queen she is supposed to be.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The other major failing of this production was the casting of Kit Harrington and Emelia Clarke. Both are sub standard actors for a show of this size.
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I actually think Kit Harrington's quite decent but Clarke's shite.

I'm also starting to think that Sophie Turner isn't really all that convincing either. Not sure what the consensus is on that one though.
 
Cheesy said:
I actually think Kit Harrington's quite decent but Clarke's shite.

I'm also starting to think that Sophie Turner isn't really all that convincing either. Not sure what the consensus is on that one though.
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Yeah I'm not sold on Sophie Turner either. When you compare them to people like Tyrion who is played by someone who can actually act it's an obvious gulf in class.
 
Cheesy said:
I actually think Kit Harrington's quite decent but Clarke's shite.

I'm also starting to think that Sophie Turner isn't really all that convincing either. Not sure what the consensus is on that one though.
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They are all pretty and that matters for TV/movies. Acting is overrated whereas looks on the other hand....
 
Cheesy said:
I actually think Kit Harrington's quite decent but Clarke's shite.

I'm also starting to think that Sophie Turner isn't really all that convincing either. Not sure what the consensus is on that one though.
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I know what you are saying about Sophie Turner but I think it is the same dynamic as Harrington and Clarke. Non of them play convincing leaders IMO.
 
Cheesy said:
I actually think Kit Harrington's quite decent but Clarke's shite.

I'm also starting to think that Sophie Turner isn't really all that convincing either. Not sure what the consensus is on that one though.
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She's terrible. Kit seems okay to me, but Sophie and Emelia are just terrible actors.

Though in Sophie's case, she was young.
 
Snowjoe said:
Yeah I'm not sold on Sophie Turner either. When you compare them to people like Tyrion who is played by someone who can actually act it's an obvious gulf in class.
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I've been unable to make my mind up on Turner for a while but the longer the show goes on the less convincing I find her. She also seems kind of unsure whether she's playing a savvy young woman or naive teenager.

RDCR07 said:
They are all pretty and that matters for TV/movies. Acting is overrated whereas looks on the other hand....
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Plenty of hot actresses in the show are very good though. Natalie Dormer was consistently decent. Lena Headey's excellent...even if Cersei's appeal has kind of faded as she slips into insanity.
 
Redlambs said:
She's terrible. Kit seems okay to me, but Sophie and Emelia are just terrible actors.

Though in Sophie's case, she was young.
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So is Maisie Williams though, and she's a superb actress.

It is admittedly probably quite hard to reliably expect a young actor/actress to be as good as you hoped they'd be once they age.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I know what you are saying about Sophie Turner but I think it is the same dynamic as Harrington and Clarke. Non of them play convincing leaders IMO.
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Yeah, Clarke was fine as the timid Season 1 Daenerys but ever since then she's largely been crap.
 
I think Kit has steadily grown into his role and become better and better to the point where I no have no complaints about him.

It's been the opposite with Emilia Clarke who did fine back when Dany was an insecure girl trying to find her feet but is struggling big time trying to sell the ruthless, cold queen.

Think Sophie Turner is great.
 
Snowjoe said:
Yeah I'm not sold on Sophie Turner either. When you compare them to people like Tyrion who is played by someone who can actually act it's an obvious gulf in class.
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Sophie Turner has had some challenging stuff to deal with in all fairness and I think she holds herself well, considering her role was basically to be a dim-witted teenage girl with zero perspective on life.. she played it to a tee and I think she's done well.

Kit Harrington, plays his role to perfection as well. I don't think they're both having to 'act' per se, as I think they are just being themselves but they suit their roles and are doing it justice.

Emelia has always been cheesy in the way she acts, but she was always undergoing hardship, and was not the centrepiece of the show but evergrowing so one sympathised with the character and overlooked her acting, but now she is meant to be the main character and I think the role has outgrown her acting capacity. Nevertheless, I think the directors in general need to be doing better because even the great characters and actors are coming across poorly in recent episodes and you can't blame the cast for that.. it is hw they are being directed/filmed.
 
Cheesy said:
I've been unable to make my mind up on Turner for a while but the longer the show goes on the less convincing I find her. She also seems kind of unsure whether she's playing a savvy young woman or naive teenager.



Plenty of hot actresses in the show are very good though. Natalie Dormer was consistently decent. Lena Headey's excellent...even if Cersei's appeal has kind of faded as she slips into insanity.
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Yeah but Lena has been acting for a while. For a lot of these people, this is the first significant role. So its easy to see some of them are still learning. Plus no one knew what their roles will grow into. No one hires actors based on what their roles will be in season 7. Also the scrutiny involving each character and their actor is tenfold cause its one of the biggest and best shows of all time.
 
Raees said:
The classic 'you've not been involved in TV production' so how dare you criticise the quality of a TV show argument. Excellent.
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Ah the classic this is bad this is bad this is bad with no actual reasons other than I dont like so ill repeat it over and over.
 
watched that video about how the white walkers get around the wall :lol: if that's what happens I won't watch a single episode After it
 
Redlambs said:
Yep, that was the point.

Maisie has grown up to be a decent actress, Sophie hasn't. Who knows with kids.
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I wasn't a fan of Sophie's acting in the first episode but she was much better in Stormborn. She's playing Sansa a bit too modestly for my liking, as opposed to cold and numb, given what Sansa's gone through, but she's not unwatchable by any means.
 
VP89 said:
Back to guesswork:

there's surely a snake on Danny's table. Could it be the Tyrell? There are no Tyrells on Yaras ship and she was whispering counter productive words to Danny.. Almost to make her second guess all the time and go with her gut instinct to rampage. I think the Tyrell mother wants revenge and she wants it now. The only person who is as direct and cunningful is Euron, and maybe she made a pact with him. Help him get the throne if he kills Cersei for her after marriage.
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I kinda hope its not Olenna as thats just introducing something near the end to fit a turn. If there was an established issue with the Targs and Tyrells maybe? Or if it was the Martells doing the double cross (with Oberyn still alive) getting revenge for his sister being betrayed by her husband (who was a Targ) who ran away / kidnapped Neds sister (and thus left her with no protection to die). Dunno?

But yeah, maybe the last part could happen. Olenna wanted Cersei gone and saw a direct way to do it, and to set things in motion for Dany to fly in. She made a pact with him whilst also openly supporting Dany. One of them now kills cersei? (I still would laugh if Euron marries Cersei then kills her)
 
VP89 said:
Back to guesswork:

there's surely a snake on Danny's table. Could it be the Tyrell? There are no Tyrells on Yaras ship and she was whispering counter productive words to Danny.. Almost to make her second guess all the time and go with her gut instinct to rampage. I think the Tyrell mother wants revenge and she wants it now. The only person who is as direct and cunningful is Euron, and maybe she made a pact with him. Help him get the throne if he kills Cersei for her after marriage.
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But they are starting anway. Its not like she thinks Dany is going to conquer another city to get rid of their masters. Its like the war was gonna next week but with this incident, it started this week you know. Its wouldnt have made much of a difference. Dont think she would risk the death of her allies to get the war started sooner.
 
VP89 said:
Back to guesswork:

there's surely a snake on Danny's table. Could it be the Tyrell? There are no Tyrells on Yaras ship and she was whispering counter productive words to Danny.. Almost to make her second guess all the time and go with her gut instinct to rampage. I think the Tyrell mother wants revenge and she wants it now. The only person who is as direct and cunningful is Euron, and maybe she made a pact with him. Help him get the throne if he kills Cersei for her after marriage.
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Can't see any of that being introduced this late in the day.
 
VP89 said:
Back to guesswork:

there's surely a snake on Danny's table. Could it be the Tyrell? There are no Tyrells on Yaras ship and she was whispering counter productive words to Danny.. Almost to make her second guess all the time and go with her gut instinct to rampage. I think the Tyrell mother wants revenge and she wants it now. The only person who is as direct and cunningful is Euron, and maybe she made a pact with him. Help him get the throne if he kills Cersei for her after marriage.
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I dnt think there will be anymore complicated plot from now on, not with so many arcs that needs to be wrapped up. It'll be straight forward from now on imo, some plot along the main players perhaps but they ain't gonna add layers
 
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