Spot on! As it goes these days they'd have the plotting for several episodes previously giving 5 minutes to it in each thinking they were teasing us with the build up. The show has lost its spontaneity somewhat.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
- Thread starter ha_rooney
- Start date
Eh? What cliffhangers have we had this season exactly?
A cliffhanger would've been not showing John waking up. Or not showing whether he does or doesn't execute the prisoners.
A cliffhanger would've been not showing John waking up. Or not showing whether he does or doesn't execute the prisoners.
Yep. A dramatic ending is not the same as a cliffhanger.
If you read the context of FCBForever's post it's clear he didn't mean cliffhanger in the traditional sense, pedants. You can't say that the build up hasn't been slow this season and that it's a lot more fragmented meaning they have to "hint" more at what's about to happen next rather than write it in the traditional GOT style which used to be quite clever.
Jon Snow was the worst kept secret ever, one of the biggest deus ex machina in TV history. I remember being shocked when Ned's head went in the first series and thought "wow, I didn't see that coming!".
Jon Snow was the worst kept secret ever, one of the biggest deus ex machina in TV history. I remember being shocked when Ned's head went in the first series and thought "wow, I didn't see that coming!".
Last season was anything but clever. I personally feel GOT usually goes a bit more downhill every successive season, but, so far, this season 6 is shaping up to be a lot better than 5 which was average.
it's not being pedantic. there haven't been any cliffhangers. we haven't been left going "feck, feck, what happens next?" at any point.
if you want an example of shitty cliffhangers, watch The Walking Dead.
if you want an example of shitty cliffhangers, watch The Walking Dead.
Don't get me started on TWD, however, TWD has never been clever and you take it for what it is, GOT has. GOT is slowly turning TWD and that isn't a good thing.
And I guess that's the nail on the head, either because we know well in advance or the story hasn't and looks increasing unlikely to reach that point.
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Another thing that occured to me regarding young Ned. It didnt look like he had the big Valarian sword in that fight scene?
What's inside the castle Brann saw Ned going in? What will Jon do now? Especially the first is stupid as feck. Now that its teased, we all know whats gonna happen. The confirmation of all these theories suddenly won't be a surprise no more.
Right now, every storyline, for every episode, ends with some Kind of little cliffhanger or tease. Character and storyline development is really suffering because of this.
Nail on the head. They are intended as such, but either we know the result well in advance, or wie just don't care...
I totally agree, I'd rather they showed half the characters each episode and get more substance from each of them. More of the better storylines then, and more scope to improve the weaker ones too.
They should split it into two shows. Or maybe that wouldn't work as I'm assuming all stories will interlink.
It was a great episode. It raised lots of questions and moved the plot forward. It also played Jon Snow's return to life and punishment of the traitors really well. Very nuanced. Loved it.
I thought the same.
Maybe it's in my head but it felt like they're not so bound to the books now, they're looking to take the shackles off and progress the story at a bit of a quicker pace.
I suspect that GRRM has given them the bare bones of his next books but as they haven't been written they don't have to adhere as much detail as before.
I pray to the old gods and the new that they finish everything up by the 8th season.
As much as it's a joy ride too much of everything will spoil the taste. Imagine year 2025 it's game of thrones season 15 featuring jon stark as the lord of winterfell, arya the wanderer of the westeroos, and langley the bastard son of jon and danny rising against the imperial usurper led by none other than a disfigured roose bolton risen from death by melisandre the purple
As much as it's a joy ride too much of everything will spoil the taste. Imagine year 2025 it's game of thrones season 15 featuring jon stark as the lord of winterfell, arya the wanderer of the westeroos, and langley the bastard son of jon and danny rising against the imperial usurper led by none other than a disfigured roose bolton risen from death by melisandre the purple
Thing is I can see that happening!So all Arya had to do was stop the "I am a hitting bad ass gal" once and then she was ready to be a Nobody. Pretty strange.
I really don't get the "Jon coming back to life was predictable" criticism. The only reason everyone knew it was going to happen is because they laid the groundwork for it happening in previous seasons and then left everyone to think it over in the off season. That's an example of well structured story telling really. It's not even like they positioned his resurrection as one of the season's massive twists, it happened in the second episode.
I mean if they just go for non stop surprise twists for the sake of it then they end up with a show like Prison Break, which wouldn't exactly be an improvement.
He died at the end of the last season... The story telling is pish poor compared to earlier seasons, I don't see it as being well structured story telling when you're only giving each character 5-10 minutes of screen time (if that in some cases, Little Finger?) whilst having several hundred arcs and creating more each episode - it delays character growth, makes the viewer care less about the characters and thus their stories. Ned, Rob, Joffrey et al wouldn't have come as much as a shock had they too been given so little screen time.
You don't need non stop surprises and twists but it's good to actually develop stories.
It was never in doubt he would be resurrected, more how he would come back to life. It was still 50/50 in would the red woman bring him back with magic or would he rises from the flames of his funeral pyre in a Targaryen dragon styleee.
The many characters with many arcs is a product of the source material. All the hopping around we're seeing this season existed in previous seasons too, including the earlier ones you're saying were better. In fact these scene setting early episodes where we touch in with the various characters are standard.
It certainly wasn't and as evidence you can see a breakdown of screen time by character here: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls076752033/ A lot of the top are by characters such as Ned, Robb and Catelyn who haven't appeared in many Seasons, alot of the earlier season characters had more screen time per arc.
Main characters in previous seasons wracked up a lot of screen time before being killed. Should this surprise me in some way? People have still been complaining about the fractured nature of the story telling since season 2 at least. An episode like Blackwater that stuck with one location was a massive novelty.
For example, look at this review of an episode from season 2:
http://m.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-ala...-thrones-the-prince-of-winterfell-fear-itself
"By bouncing from region to region, character to character, season 2 often creates the illusion of forward movement that isn't really there. We've spent a fair amount of time with Jon Snow and Ygritte over the past three weeks, but even though the power has passed from one of them to the other over that time, it still feels like they've been wandering around that glacier for far longer than they have. We jump in on them, or on other characters, and hear them engage in variations on the same discussion, over and over. When it's a good combination of characters — say, Arya and Tywin, or Tyrion and anybody they put Tyrion with — the repetition doesn't matter, but even the good moments (of which this episode had several) can't stop me from feeling like we've spent eight hours putting everyone in position for when the next phase of the story will actually start."
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That's just it though, the show has no "main" characters anymore (except perhaps Jon), everyone's stories just aren't progressing at the same rate as earlier seasons, it's not just characters who were killed but also characters such as Little Finger and Tyrion.
This isn't just a gripe I have, look back through the thread since the last episode and there are plenty of people stating the same issue - it's too fragmented for anybody to care. You don't even get the great dialog exchanges anymore as 5-10 minutes per character doesn't permit it.
Not to mention that in Season 1, the story began with lots of characters all converged together. It was a lot easier for all the Starks to rack up screentime, for example, when they were mostly all alongside each other in the early stages.
Probably not wise to be fighting Dayne with that huge greatsword. It would've been like The Mountain vs Oberyn all over again except no surprise head crushing.
Again, having no "main" characters is a product of the source material.
I know it isn't a gripe only you have. It's a gripe a lot of people have had for several seasons.
The weird thing about this show is that, in regards to having protagonists and antagonists, it's closer to a soap opera than a standard tv series or film.
Whereas in those you get someone to root for until at least near the end, GOT just kills off the leading characters time after time and leaves you wondering what it's actually about.
Whereas in those you get someone to root for until at least near the end, GOT just kills off the leading characters time after time and leaves you wondering what it's actually about.
Im kinda agreeing with @sullydnl on this. Previous seasons were pretty much like recent seasons. The only thing is that some of the dialogue seemed better before than, say, last season (eg Dorne). But it seemed to follow the same path each season, building up to around episode 8 or 9 where something massive happens. (with that episode normally focused on one or two arcs).
For me, ep3 felt like everything progressed except Dany and Sams stories (but at least with Sam we know hes sailing somewhere).
For me, ep3 felt like everything progressed except Dany and Sams stories (but at least with Sam we know hes sailing somewhere).
Aye, at any given time there are usually a few plotlines on the back burner that don't really progress much while others take centre stage. For Arya's plotline now see Theon being tortured by Ramsey before, or Bran while he was making his way up north before that, or Dany for most of the series really. In each case they basically went into a holding position where a large chunk of a season went by without anything major happening to them.
He wasn't carrying it in the fight at the brothel in season 1 either. It's really huge and not suited for battle, an executioner's blade maybe. Donn't forget that after Tywin melted it, two longswords were created out of it. I think it was a symbol of the Starks' authority more than anything else, a ceremonial sword if you like.
Plus if the sword was used during the Revellion, it would probably be with Ned's father or his older brother in King's Landing and not with Ned at the Tower of Joy.
ah ok, was his father alive during the rebellion?
No. Their execution was basically the start of the rebellion.
The rebellion started when the Mad King executed Ned's dad and brother, and ordered Jon Arryn to execute Ned and Robert Barratheon who had been fostered by him.
They were both murdered by the Mad King and that was the spark, alongside Lyanna's abduction, that started the rebellion. Jamie witnessed it all and did nothing and that's probably the reason he and Ned never got along well after that. My point was that, if the leader of House Stark always carried Ice with him in all occasions, the sword would probably be in King's Landing and Ned probably took it back after the rebellion.
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the rebellion really started before that when Rhaeger kidnapped Lyanna. Killing Ned's dad and brother escalated it further.
From GoT wiki:
Nicknamed the Mad King, his reign became increasingly erratic and murderous. As a result, tensions between House Targaryen and several other Great Houses began to rise. The brutal fallout from Prince Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna Stark of Winterfell saw many Houses in the realm rebel against his rule.
If Aerys had handed Lyana back to the Stark's and sent Rhaegar into exile in Essos for a few years, the war could have been avoided. It was only after Aerys started executing high Lords that the others rose in rebellion.
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Ice was a ceremonial sword and never used in combat.