Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Klopper76 said:
Does anyone else sympathise with Allister Thorne over the whole Jon Snow thing? His explanation for doing what they did seemed fairly reasonable to me.
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Wut? No, of course not. Just because you don't agree with the Lord Commander doesn't mean you have to kill him. Treason is a sin of the highest order, especially in a community like the Night's Watch. I found it hard to believe so many guys went quiet after his 'explanation'.

Besides, Thorne has been a cnut since day one, especially to Jon himself when he was new at the Wall. He deserves nothing better than the likes of Janos Slynt.
 
Because that was the biggest reveal, but yeah, I get that (although I hardly ever look at titles tbh).

I agree with the Arya stuff, as long as it goes somewhere. as long as its not some silly thing where after all her training, shes stabbed by the faceless guy who says "one never saw that coming". ugh. lol.

Klopper76 said:
Does anyone else sympathise with Allister Thorne over the whole Jon Snow thing? His explanation for doing what they did seemed fairly reasonable to me.
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I get his thinking. I dont get his actions though given what @RobinLFC said. Surely with the number of people that were gathered, not everybody will agree and some will fight for Snow?
 
Klopper76 said:
Does anyone else sympathise with Allister Thorne over the whole Jon Snow thing? His explanation for doing what they did seemed fairly reasonable to me.
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No he is blinded by his hatred of the Wildlings along with Snow and refusing to accept that they have a bigger problem heading their way. Time for everyone in the Watch to figure the feck out that the damn wall was not built to keep the Wildlings out.
 
RobinLFC said:
Treason is a sin of the highest order, especially in a community like the Night's Watch. I found it hard to believe so many guys went quiet after his 'explanation'.
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Well, that's the point, isn't it? Jon Snow was basically a traitor to everything that the Night Watch is, from his and many others point of view?

I don't support Thorne in this, but this particular argument can go both ways
 
harms said:
Well, that's the point, isn't it? Jon Snow was basically a traitor to everything that the Night Watch is, from his and many others point of view?

I don't support Thorne in this, but this particular argument can go both ways
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But Jon is breaking the rules for the greater good, and the old guard are too stubborn and ignorant to believe that Winter is coming.

Jon realised that it will take a united Westeros to win this imminent war.
 
Hmm, so perhaps Jon actually is dead but Mel is going to take his form.
 
RobinLFC said:
Wut? No, of course not. Just because you don't agree with the Lord Commander doesn't mean you have to kill him. Treason is a sin of the highest order, especially in a community like the Night's Watch. I found it hard to believe so many guys went quiet after his 'explanation'.

Besides, Thorne has been a cnut since day one, especially to Jon himself when he was new at the Wall. He deserves nothing better than the likes of Janos Slynt.
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i would have been one of those guys who went quiet. He had me convinced.

I understand that his betrayal of Jon was wrong but his motivation is understandable. He's spent his life fighting the wildlings and as far as we know hasn't seen a White Walker yet. In his eyes the real enemy is already on the their side of the wall. Maybe arranging a meeting with HR would have been better.
 
WhoDaGOAT said:
But Jon is breaking the rules for the greater good, and the old guard are too stubborn and ignorant to believe that Winter is coming.

Jon realised that it will take a united Westeros to win this imminent war.
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Thorne and most of the Night Watch didn't know that - for them those White Walkers are just a myth or a lie from Jon Snow to move forward with his plan to move the wildlings south. The only thing that is strange here is that it was more logical to kill him before he opened the gates, but I guess with Stannis there they couldn't take the risk. They also know that Jon already broke the rules of the Night Watch by being with Ingrid - so it's easier to believe that he made some secret pact with the wildlings behind the Night Watch back

So Thorne and his people are doing this to the greater good too - so that the Night Watch can return to solving their usual problems - dealing with wildlings and defending the realm from them and not from some ancient mythological magical creatures

From the objective point of view we know that Jon is right and Thorne is a thick bastard, but the characters on the show don't know what the viewer does.
 
harms said:
Thorne and most of the Night Watch didn't know that - for them those White Walkers are just a myth or a lie from Jon Snow to move forward with his plan to move the wildlings south. The only thing that is strange here is that it was more logical to kill him before he opened the gates, but I guess with Stannis there they couldn't take the risk. They also know that Jon already broke the rules of the Night Watch by being with Ingrid - so it's easier to believe that he made some secret pact with the wildlings behind the Night Watch back

So Thorne and his people are doing this to the greater good too - so that the Night Watch can return to solving their usual problems - dealing with wildlings and defending the realm from them and not from some ancient mythological magical creatures

From the objective point of view we know that Jon is right and Thorne is a thick bastard, but the characters on the show don't know what the viewer does.
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They think they're doing it for the greater good, that doesn't justify their actions though. If anything they've made the situation a lot worse again.
 
harms said:
Thorne and most of the Night Watch didn't know that - for them those White Walkers are just a myth or a lie from Jon Snow to move forward with his plan to move the wildlings south. The only thing that is strange here is that it was more logical to kill him before he opened the gates, but I guess with Stannis there they couldn't take the risk. They also know that Jon already broke the rules of the Night Watch by being with Ingrid - so it's easier to believe that he made some secret pact with the wildlings behind the Night Watch back

So Thorne and his people are doing this to the greater good too - so that the Night Watch can return to solving their usual problems - dealing with wildlings and defending the realm from them and not from some ancient mythological magical creatures

From the objective point of view we know that Jon is right and Thorne is a thick bastard, but the characters on the show don't know what the viewer does.
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Everything that Jon and Stannis did was out of desperation, and they should have realised this. Stannis, a respected man, wouldn't associate himself with them if he had another choice. The old guard should have realised this. Thorne was just bitter than a younger, more charming man (actually a boy) was able to appeal to the hearts of his men more than he could. The sleeping with Ingrid part would make him suspicious though, I do admit. But they could have imprisoned Jon or simply banished him to beyond the wall instead of committing acts of treason themselves. It was all pure ego.
 
RobinLFC said:
They think they're doing it for the greater good, that doesn't justify their actions though. If anything they've made the situation a lot worse again.
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Well, maybe Jon was only thinking that he is doing it for the greater good. Who knows, maybe the White Walkers, after conquering the world with their army of undead will provide free health care for Westeros or establish the democratic institutions instead of an absolute monarchy or the ruling of the religious fanatics.

We can only judge their actions on what they know, even if we are seeing the wider picture because we have seen every major event in the realm so far. And Thorne was right to do so, based on the information that he was given (or not given).
 
harms said:
Well, that's the point, isn't it? Jon Snow was basically a traitor to everything that the Night Watch is, from his and many others point of view?

I don't support Thorne in this, but this particular argument can go both ways
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The issue is that if Thorne has been at Hardhome he'd not be doing this right now. Same for most of the Nights Watch, they have no real understanding of whats coming despite many of them venturing north on the doomed expedition. Although I think many of those that went on the expedition are probably dead anyway.
 
WhoDaGOAT said:
But they could have imprisoned Jon or simply banished him to beyond the wall instead of committing acts of treason themselves. It was all pure ego.
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Nah, have you seen the first episode of the first season? There is only one punishment for the treason in the north - death.
 
harms said:
Nah, have you seen the first episode of the first season? There is only one punishment for the treason in the north - death.
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This isn't technically the North though. It's a separate entity set up by King's Landing.

And if that is your logic, he was murdered in secrecy and not by one executioner. Shouldn't those who murdered him be held accountable also?
 
Those loyal to Jon Snow were of the hope that Melisandre could use her magic to bring him back, although I got the impression that she's having a loss of faith. I'm inclined to think that he will be back be it through Melisandre or as a white walker because i'm reading far too much in to the scene where he was facing the Night's King whilst the boat was leaving.
 
moxdevil said:
Those loyal to Jon Snow were of the hope that Melisandre could use her magic to bring him back, although I got the impression that she's having a loss of faith. I'm inclined to think that he will be back be it through Melisandre or as a white walker because i'm reading far too much in to the scene where he was facing the Night's King whilst the boat was leaving.
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Sam also said "Don't worry about Jon, he always comes back" during the Hardhome episode. That to me is the writers teasing us knowing that Jon was going to "die" only to be revived later.
 
If he comes back, I hope he comes back "changed". Like a either proper cnut or maybe a bit like Alan Carr.
 
Good episode. That scene at the end, can't notrememberthat! :wenger:.

Like many said, writing was average. I for one actually think one of the Sandsnakes girl is cute (The won who killed Areo), but I am pretty sure they replaced the others or maybe they are that meh. Daenary's going to that place where Khal's widows only go means there will be a rescue mission from Jorah and co. Tyrion will look to seek out the leader of those rebels, but I doubt it will be that interesting.

The story at the wall is going to be epic for this season, I can already feel it. That's what I am most looking forward to. After that, the Lannister arc. And ffs, when will Bran finally appear.
 
For some reasons I was expecting a lot more, especially with the epic trailers released the past few weeks.. I was left meh..
 
TBH, were in 2016. As I said before, weekly episodes is a thing of the past. Its all about binging now :P
 
Ijazz17 said:
Like many said, writing was average. I for one actually think one of the Sandsnakes girl is cute (The won who killed Areo), but I am pretty sure they replaced the others or maybe they are that meh.
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They haven't replaced any of them. They are just that meh.
 
The death of Areo and Doran was actually well done, if you're "one of them" I'm sure you'd be fuming but thankfully the TV show seems intent on killing off the Dorne side arc. It's unnecessary and adds nothing to the overall plot this late in the game.

If you actually pretend the Tystane scene didn't happen it was a pretty great premiere.

I'm hoping Davos gets a huge push this season. He's so fecking great. Like Ned Stark 2.0 minus the fighting ability.
 
Also, is it at all possible that Snow could return, but the only way possible is if Mellisandre dies in the process. I really don't see her lasting beyond this season. She really has no influence on anyone any more. I doubt the key is the necklace though, that must just be a ruse to fool the audience. Must be the potions like someone mentioned here.

Also can I add, I absolutely hated that joke with Daenyr's and the Dothraki's. That's some really low level writing there. It has absolutely no place for Game of Thrones or for any HBO show for that matter.

Right, off to see Veep :drool:. #HBOFest
 
The last scene went from 100 to 0 very quickly.

Dothraki bore me to death. And the Arya storyline is tedious as feck.
 
I have to admit, when Theon was so keen to jump into those ice water all I could think was 'Well, obviously, as there's no danger of shrinkage'.
 
Klopper76 said:
i would have been one of those guys who went quiet. He had me convinced.

I understand that his betrayal of Jon was wrong but his motivation is understandable. He's spent his life fighting the wildlings and as far as we know hasn't seen a White Walker yet. In his eyes the real enemy is already on the their side of the wall. Maybe arranging a meeting with HR would have been better.
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There were a load of Brothers went up to Crasters with Old Mormont and saw what happened when the Walkers attacked. How many saw the two dead fellas come back alive to attack the old man agaon once they were back? Then there were another load who were at Hardholm and saw how they raised the dead to add to their army.

Quite aside from forgiving the wildlings, or needing them to fight alongside them. Every body left on the other side of the wall is another body they are going to have to fight eventually. The Nights Watch had to either kill every wildling and burn their bodies which they didn't have the numbers to do, or do what Jon did.

Thorne fancies himself as a leader so should be old enough and wise enough to put his own feelings aside and see the right decision for what it is.
 
Jon will be back, im sure of it.

They wouldn't bother keeping his frigging corpse and all davos going in there making the stand if it's only to bury his remains.

Slow episode, wae boring going halfway. But it's rather expected as a season's opener.

Can't wait for the fabled 9th episode, but then again a year wait for the 7th season... Argh...m
 
People seem to see greatness in John Snow when they meet him, there are those like Sam who followed, those like Stannis who tried to use it for his own end and then there is Thorne who felt threatened (and jealous) by it and that was always going to end badly for one of them.
 
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