Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

[RedSky]

That's what has been making me wonder about this season and parts of the last. The writing clearly has changed to tv land, chasing the shocks.

I think the same about Stannis too, I just refuse to believe a celebrated author would be so revered if he wrote that storyline. It was just a big, waste of time dead end if he's dead.

My theory (please note you may not want to read this if you are a casual tv viewer who doesn't want speculation)

Spoiler

I think the entire Stannis storyline is a vehicle for Melisandre to get to the Wall. George used Stannis as a red herring, when the key character is in fact Melisandre.

I keep picking up on her using the phrase Kings Blood and I think this is a really important plot device in the show. I don't know exactly how this works so here's my understanding:

- When a King dies it passes down to the next rightful ruler (next in line in the family tree).
- So when Robert Baratheon killed all of the Targaryens during the Rebellion the Targaryen line was wiped out making Robert the rightful ruler.
- When Robert was killed, the next rightful ruler (as pointed out by Ned Stark) was Stannis.

Melisandre has constantly been banging the drum from day 1 that Stannis was the rightful ruler. He was the one that should be King, he had "the Kings Blood" and that gave him power that normal men didn't have. So what changed?

Melisandre this season met Jon Snow. So lets assume that the theory about Jons mother being Lyanna Stark and his father was Raegar Targaryen is correct. That would mean that Robert Baratheon hadn't killed off the entire family tree and that would therefore mean that Robert never had the Kings Blood. He was a mere pretender, that in turn would mean that Stannis also never had the Kings Blood. So when Melisandre met Jon Snow (she discovered that he had the Kings Blood) and that therefore meant that Stannis was an imposter. So she led Stannis into a situation where there was no returning from and basically wiped out the Baratheon claim to the throne (removing a threat from Jon Snow).

The only hole in this argument is Daenerys? If all of the above is true why didn't Melisandre go to Daenerys rather than Stannis. Perhaps women aren't fit for ruling under the Lord of the Light? Thus meaning that Daenerys was never in contention for the throne in the eyes of the Lord of the Light?

 

[Redlambs]

I feel it has become convoluted and silly but I was expecting that, it is a fantasy program after all.

Jon Snow was the only 'shock' 'death' surely? Either Ramsey or Stannis were toast from the outset of this season. I don't enjoy Littlefinger that much so I guess it is what you like.

I don't know, I think I don't take it as seriously as some people seem to perhaps but I am looking forward to what happens in the next season.

But you see the funny thing there though right? We are all in the same boat, everyone of us want to watch next season! Otherwise we are completely wasting our time commenting on it. Like the bunch of nerds we are I suppose

 

[Randall Flagg]

I think the last couple of episodes saved what was a very poor season

yeah they probably overdid the deaths but I dont think for a moment Jon and possibly even Stannis are dead

Red Lady is back, she is part of that cult who can bring people back alive (Where have those guys gone by the way)

Jon Snow will be back next season I guarantee it

 

[RedSky]

goddamn it my carefully constructed theory is last post of previous page

 

[Classical Mechanic]

That's the problem. I know nothing about the books past the second and refuse to even read those wiki pages for fear of spoilers, but even an idiot like me can see where the storylines aren't quite right. And if tv plebs like me can see that, what must the book readers be thinking?

What are TV critics then, on the payroll or something?

@RedSky

I don't buy the hysteria over any of the arcs because I don't think the writers are stupid. I am sure that everything will have a purpose that will be revealed. What is the point in decrying 'bad writing' when you don't even know how the arcs conclude?

 

[DatIrishFella]

Who'd be interested in a dedicated thread about the theories on Jon Snow and other characters, book readers are allowed to discuss, but nothing that spoils future character arcs.

I just want someone to discuss the theory with I read the other day.

 

[Redlambs]

My theory (please note you may not want to read this if you are a casual tv viewer who doesn't want speculation)

Spoiler

I think the entire Stannis storyline is a vehicle for Melisandre to get to the Wall. George used Stannis as a red herring, when the key character is in fact Melisandre.

I keep picking up on her using the phrase Kings Blood and I think this is a really important plot device in the show. I don't know exactly how this works so here's my understanding:

- When a King dies it passes down to the next rightful ruler (next in line in the family tree).
- So when Robert Baratheon killed all of the Targaryens during the Rebellion the Targaryen line was wiped out making Robert the rightful ruler.
- When Robert was killed, the next rightful ruler (as pointed out by Ned Stark) was Stannis.

Melisandre has constantly been banging the drum from day 1 that Stannis was the rightful ruler. He was the one that should be King, he had "the Kings Blood" and that gave him power that normal men didn't have. So what changed?

Melisandre this season met Jon Snow. So lets assume that the theory about Jons mother being Lyanna Stark and his father was Raegar Targaryen is correct. That would mean that Robert Baratheon hadn't killed off the entire family tree and that would therefore mean that Robert never had the Kings Blood. He was a mere pretender, that in turn would mean that Stannis also never had the Kings Blood. So when Melisandre met Jon Snow (she discovered that he had the Kings Blood) and that therefore meant that Stannis was an imposter. So she led Stannis into a situation where there was no returning from and basically wiped out the Baratheon claim to the throne (removing a threat from Jon Snow).

The only hole in this argument is Daenerys? If all of the above is true why didn't Melisandre go to Daenerys rather than Stannis. Perhaps women aren't fit for ruling under the Lord of the Light? Thus meaning that Daenerys was never in contention for the throne in the eyes of the Lord of the Light?

Spoiler

Wow, you've just broken a theory to me! I always figured Snow would have some big scheme in the royal blood thing, but actually being a Stark too? Makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, one thing you forget to mention is Stannis' blood does produce the power. The ghost baby, so at some point he is powerful enough right? I just think that him being a vehicle for Melisandre is pretty weak considering how long his storyline has gone on for though isn't it? I mean all this king's blood is all well and good, but surely the next rightful king by those rules was Jamie for killing the last one. I think we are reading too much into that whole thing, Stannis just had some really shit writing this season and I can't see that being GRRM considering it's in complete contrast to everything before.

 

[Shiva87]

I think the last couple of episodes saved what was a very poor season

yeah they probably overdid the deaths but I dont think for a moment Jon and possibly even Stannis are dead

Red Lady is back, she is part of that cult who can bring people back alive (Where have those guys gone by the way)

Jon Snow will be back next season I guarantee it

How sure are you? I just think RR Martin is sadistic. He thinks like -

"hmm.. i'm getting bored today, who should I kill? ..... Who is the fan's favourite right now? ... ... Wouldn't killing him be marvelous."

Next morning, Ned Stark/ Rob Stark/ Oberyn Martell/ John Snow (keep whichever name you like) are dead. I guess Tyrion and Daenerys would be shitting their pants.

 

[Redlambs]

What are TV critics then, on the payroll or something?

I'm not sure what the real point there with you is, but you clearly have no idea about critics and reviewers!

But no, that's not entirely what I meant.

I don't buy the hysteria over any of the arcs because I don't think the writers are stupid. I am sure that everything will have a purpose that will be revealed. What is the point in decrying 'bad writing' when you don't even know how the arcs conclude?

Who said anything about them being stupid? Chasing ratings and doing things how they think people want them though, that's smart.

 

[RedSky]

Spoiler

Wow, you've just broken a theory to me! I always figured Snow would have some big scheme in the royal blood thing, but actually being a Stark too? Makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, one thing you forget to mention is Stannis' blood does produce the power. The ghost baby, so at some point he is powerful enough right? I just think that him being a vehicle for Melisandre is pretty weak considering how long his storyline has gone on for though isn't it? I mean all this king's blood is all well and good, but surely the next rightful king by those rules was Jamie for killing the last one. I think we are reading too much into that whole thing, Stannis just had some really shit writing this season and I can't see that being GRRM considering it's in complete contrast to everything before.

Spoiler

Perhaps the Kings Blood power isn't in the people themselves but in the belief of the Priests?

• Melisandre thought Stannis was the rightful ruler thus granting him power.
• When Melisandre met Jon Snow she realised her error about Stannis.
• Melisandre's power is now being transferred to Jon Snow as he's the rightful ruler.

I thought about it yesterday when I watched that youtube video about the Priest Resurrection. The power seems to come from the Priests belief, the more belief they have the stronger the power?

 

[Redlambs]

The most 'shocking' moment in the series is going the be in the next novel FFS, they got the story line from GRRM. I am only aware of one 'shock' that is not supposed to be in the books.

So, you've completely overlooked the point here right? That it's not just the 'shocks' that it's the writing around them? Like all this outrage over both the Sansa and Shireen storylines being completely different to the reactions to the Ned or Oberyn or Red wedding ones eh? Maybe I've just imagined that.

Good to know.

 

[Redlambs]

Spoiler

Perhaps the Kings Blood power isn't in the people themselves but in the belief of the Priests?

• Melisandre thought Stannis was the rightful ruler thus granting him power.
• When Melisandre met Jon Snow she realised her error about Stannis.
• Melisandre's power is now being transferred to Jon Snow as he's the rightful ruler.

I thought about it yesterday when I watched that youtube video about the Priest Resurrection. The power seems to come from the Priests belief, the more belief they have the stronger the power?

Spoiler

Possibly. I still think maybe we are thinking too much about it now, maybe there isn't a masterplan as such and GRRM decided that weakening Stannis after Ghostbabygate would allow him to introduce the bastard? Maybe that's the point, that we are supposed to keep guessing who should actually win. But one thing I still don't get, is that if Stannis is really dead then why was so much of the show about him? It surely can't be Melisandre getting to the wall, I want to believe she is as shocked and clueless as we are about it now. Because if this was always a ploy for that, then it's pretty dumb considering she could have got there by far less dangerous ways.

 

[RedSky]

What are TV critics then, on the payroll or something?

@RedSky

I don't buy the hysteria over any of the arcs because I don't think the writers are stupid. I am sure that everything will have a purpose that will be revealed. What is the point in decrying 'bad writing' when you don't even know how the arcs conclude?

Don't tell me the writing hasn't been awful this season because it has. Way too many scenes this year across the board which has details ignored or coincidences or tv drama added in. They've cut loads of corners this Season (some examples):

- Bronn/Jamie strolling into the Dorne capital.
- Bronn/Jamie finding Princess Barbie at the same time that Sand Sluts tried to attack.
- Jon being let in with the Wildlings despite not agreeing with his decision one bit.
- Jon failing to make a speech which would motivate the troops, White Walkers raised the dead ffs, don't whisper it to Sam, tell them all!
- Manbeast walking away at the same time as Sansa lights the candle.
- Arya suddenly getting the face and becoming an assassin.

Those are ones off the top of my head. I love the show, but feck they've been cutting so many corners this season. The only bit of writing I remember cringing at in all of the previous Seasons was that awful attack by Theons sister when rather than knocking him out and carrying him to the boat, they leave him in the cage. I mean wtf, she sailed all that way just to leave him anyway? Oh yeah, because a half naked Ramsey was in the way.

What I guess has happened is that George has told the writers what he plans to happen to the characters. But the problem is that there's no build up to those key events. So the writers are having to invent the buildup and making a total hash of it. Before the writers had hundreds of pages of material to go through and work out a decent script/plan for each story. Now they have none of that material except bullet point events.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

So, you've completely overlooked the point here right? That it's not just the 'shocks' that it's the writing around them? Like all this outrage over both the Sansa and Shireen storylines being completely different to the reactions to the Ned or Oberyn or Red wedding ones eh? Maybe I've just imagined that.

Good to know.

I don't really care about the faux moral outrage of third generation feminists agitators that seem to be able to stomach a whole variety of violence and murder but not implied rape. They hijacked that scene to make some noise, no more, no less, the show wasn't getting darker at all.

GoT is a fantasy series that only scratches the surface of human darkness when it comes to violence and murder. It is an adult show with adult themes, if you are of sensitive disposition then why watch?

@RedSky

Cutting corners because they can't possibly fit all the story into the capacity they have. It is needs must. There are some cheesy lines and bad acting, but again, there are dragons and shape shifting assassins. It isn't Nordic noir.

 

[Walrus]

It’s been more mixed than anything. Stuff like the Sand Snakes has been awful for the most part, with some truly diabolical lines, but then characters like Tyrion have remained interesting for the most part.

I was actually disappointed with Tyrion for the first half of the season - although once he hooked up with Jorah, he improved enormously. The first half was just him piddling about getting drunk and whining a lot.

My theory (please note you may not want to read this if you are a casual tv viewer who doesn't want speculation)

Spoiler

I think the entire Stannis storyline is a vehicle for Melisandre to get to the Wall. George used Stannis as a red herring, when the key character is in fact Melisandre.

I keep picking up on her using the phrase Kings Blood and I think this is a really important plot device in the show. I don't know exactly how this works so here's my understanding:

- When a King dies it passes down to the next rightful ruler (next in line in the family tree).
- So when Robert Baratheon killed all of the Targaryens during the Rebellion the Targaryen line was wiped out making Robert the rightful ruler.
- When Robert was killed, the next rightful ruler (as pointed out by Ned Stark) was Stannis.

Melisandre has constantly been banging the drum from day 1 that Stannis was the rightful ruler. He was the one that should be King, he had "the Kings Blood" and that gave him power that normal men didn't have. So what changed?

Melisandre this season met Jon Snow. So lets assume that the theory about Jons mother being Lyanna Stark and his father was Raegar Targaryen is correct. That would mean that Robert Baratheon hadn't killed off the entire family tree and that would therefore mean that Robert never had the Kings Blood. He was a mere pretender, that in turn would mean that Stannis also never had the Kings Blood. So when Melisandre met Jon Snow (she discovered that he had the Kings Blood) and that therefore meant that Stannis was an imposter. So she led Stannis into a situation where there was no returning from and basically wiped out the Baratheon claim to the throne (removing a threat from Jon Snow).

The only hole in this argument is Daenerys? If all of the above is true why didn't Melisandre go to Daenerys rather than Stannis. Perhaps women aren't fit for ruling under the Lord of the Light? Thus meaning that Daenerys was never in contention for the throne in the eyes of the Lord of the Light?

Spoiler: Just speculation

I think you are on the right sort of lines - I had my own sort of theory about Melisandre being on a mission to basically destroy the Baratheon bloodline. She killed Renly, she killed Shireen, and she indirectly killed Stannis and his wife. I definitely think she will resurrect Jon Snow and he will have some major part to play with her as well.

Your theory on Kings Blood is interesting though, but I dont think it is a requirement for anything - after all Thoros was able to resurrect Berric 6 times through simply belief and asking the Lord of Light, rather than using Kings Blood. Therefore either the entire Kings Blood thing was a red herring, or Melisandre was using it (as a concept) to trick Stannis, or it is a sort of placebo for her in that because she believes that she needs it, she does.

I dont agree with those saying that the Stannis story arc meant nothing and was a waste, regardless. You could say the same for basically any character who tried to do something and failed.

I don't really care about the faux moral outrage of third generation feminists agitators that seem to be able to stomach a whole variety of violence and murder but not implied rape. They hijacked that scene to make some noise, no more, no less, the show wasn't getting darker at all.

GoT is a fantasy series that only scratches the surface of human darkness when it comes to violence and murder. It is an adult show with adult themes, if you are of sensitive disposition then why watch?

I agree with this wholeheartedly - however this season there does seem to have been a tendency to just throw in 'shocks' for the sake of ratings, rather than maintaining integrity and believability in the storyline.

Don't tell me the writing hasn't been awful this season because it has. Way too many scenes this year across the board which has details ignored or coincidences or tv drama added in. They've cut loads of corners this Season (some examples):

- Bronn/Jamie strolling into the Dorne capital.
- Bronn/Jamie finding Princess Barbie at the same time that Sand Sluts tried to attack.
- Jon being let in with the Wildlings despite not agreeing with his decision one bit.
- Jon failing to make a speech which would motivate the troops, White Walkers raised the dead ffs, don't whisper it to Sam, tell them all!
- Manbeast walking away at the same time as Sansa lights the candle.
- Arya suddenly getting the face and becoming an assassin.

Those are ones off the top of my head. I love the show, but feck they've been cutting so many corners this season. The only bit of writing I remember cringing at in all of the previous Seasons was that awful attack by Theons sister when rather than knocking him out and carrying him to the boat, they leave him in the cage. I mean wtf, she sailed all that way just to leave him anyway? Oh yeah, because a half naked Ramsey was in the way.

What I guess has happened is that George has told the writers what he plans to happen to the characters. But the problem is that there's no build up to those key events. So the writers are having to invent the buildup and making a total hash of it. Before the writers had hundreds of pages of material to go through and work out a decent script/plan for each story. Now they have none of that material except bullet point events.

I also agree with this - the writing has been worse this season. Some storylines and scenes felt rushed, whilst others seemed pointlessly dragged out. The pacing was all over the place, too many short cuts, too much of trying to orientate the show around episodes, rather than the storylines themselves.

Your last paragraph has it spot on - the TV writers have started to take over, and the results are bad. I always feel that if you are writing an adaptation, stick to the source material as best as possible. Now if they are going in their own direction then we end up with different storylines for the show and books, and that annoys me.

 

[RedSky]

Spoiler

Possibly. I still think maybe we are thinking too much about it now, maybe there isn't a masterplan as such and GRRM decided that weakening Stannis after Ghostbabygate would allow him to introduce the bastard? Maybe that's the point, that we are supposed to keep guessing who should actually win. But one thing I still don't get, is that if Stannis is really dead then why was so much of the show about him? It surely can't be Melisandre getting to the wall, I want to believe she is as shocked and clueless as we are about it now. Because if this was always a ploy for that, then it's pretty dumb considering she could have got there by far less dangerous ways.

Spoiler

If my theory is correct then Melisandre would only have discovered the error in her judgement when she got to the Wall. At that point her allegiance changed from Stannis to Jon Snow and knowing that Stannis would be a danger to Jon Snow decided to wipe him out. She had no knowledge that Jon existed until she met him at the Wall.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

My theory (please note you may not want to read this if you are a casual tv viewer who doesn't want speculation)

Spoiler

I think the entire Stannis storyline is a vehicle for Melisandre to get to the Wall. George used Stannis as a red herring, when the key character is in fact Melisandre.

I keep picking up on her using the phrase Kings Blood and I think this is a really important plot device in the show. I don't know exactly how this works so here's my understanding:

- When a King dies it passes down to the next rightful ruler (next in line in the family tree).
- So when Robert Baratheon killed all of the Targaryens during the Rebellion the Targaryen line was wiped out making Robert the rightful ruler.
- When Robert was killed, the next rightful ruler (as pointed out by Ned Stark) was Stannis.

Melisandre has constantly been banging the drum from day 1 that Stannis was the rightful ruler. He was the one that should be King, he had "the Kings Blood" and that gave him power that normal men didn't have. So what changed?

Melisandre this season met Jon Snow. So lets assume that the theory about Jons mother being Lyanna Stark and his father was Raegar Targaryen is correct. That would mean that Robert Baratheon hadn't killed off the entire family tree and that would therefore mean that Robert never had the Kings Blood. He was a mere pretender, that in turn would mean that Stannis also never had the Kings Blood. So when Melisandre met Jon Snow (she discovered that he had the Kings Blood) and that therefore meant that Stannis was an imposter. So she led Stannis into a situation where there was no returning from and basically wiped out the Baratheon claim to the throne (removing a threat from Jon Snow).

The only hole in this argument is Daenerys? If all of the above is true why didn't Melisandre go to Daenerys rather than Stannis. Perhaps women aren't fit for ruling under the Lord of the Light? Thus meaning that Daenerys was never in contention for the throne in the eyes of the Lord of the Light?

It probably is something like that but it's all a bit flaky. You're forgetting about her brother too who got Goldfingered in Season 1.

TBH I don't really get how the Baratheons have any Kingsblood in them at all as they're just usurpers themselves which is where the first part of that theory re:Jon

Spoiler

(that he is a secret Targ)

will probably come into play in the future.

 

[RedSky]

It probably is something like that but it's all a bit flaky. You're forgetting about her brother too who got Goldfingered in Season 1.

TBH I don't really get how the Baratheons have any Kingsblood in them at all as they're just usurpers themselves which is where the first part of that theory re:Jon

Spoiler

(that he is a secret Targ)

will probably come into play in the future.

To be fair, we only met Melisandre in Season 2 and he was already dead at that point.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

What are TV critics then, on the payroll or something?

@RedSky

I don't buy the hysteria over any of the arcs because I don't think the writers are stupid. I am sure that everything will have a purpose that will be revealed. What is the point in decrying 'bad writing' when you don't even know how the arcs conclude?

Clearly you've never seen Lost...

 

[Redlambs]

I don't really care about the faux moral outrage of third generation feminists agitators that seem to be able to stomach a whole variety of violence and murder but not implied rape. They hijacked that scene to make some noise, no more, no less, the show wasn't getting darker at all.

GoT is a fantasy series that only scratches the surface of human darkness when it comes to violence and murder. It is an adult show with adult themes, if you are of sensitive disposition then why watch?

@RedSky

Cutting corners because they can't possibly fit all the story into the capacity they have. It is needs must. There are some cheesy lines and bad acting, but again, there are dragons and shape shifting assassins. It isn't Nordic noir.

Wow, and I mean actually wow.

You are so far away from the point it's unbelievable, well done Seriously, and I'm not taking the piss here at all I swear, but that's the most out of context I've had a post taken on here for a long long time! Feminists

I agree with this wholeheartedly - however this season there does seem to have been a tendency to just throw in 'shocks' for the sake of ratings, rather than maintaining integrity and believability in the storyline.

To be fair, he was making up a point there. Funnily enough, I agree with him on that!

 

[Redlambs]

Spoiler

If my theory is correct then Melisandre would only have discovered the error in her judgement when she got to the Wall. At that point her allegiance changed from Stannis to Jon Snow and knowing that Stannis would be a danger to Jon Snow decided to wipe him out. She had no knowledge that Jon existed until she met him at the Wall.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying you are wrong as we are batting around theories here. But I think it's pretty bad writing still because if it was all going nowhere, surely the tv guys would have cut a lot of it? See what I mean?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Wow, and I mean actually wow.

You are so far away from the point it's unbelievable, well done Seriously, and I'm not taking the piss here at all I swear, but that's the most out of context I've had a post taken on here for a long long time! Feminists

What exactly is your point because you seem incoherent to me obviously! Are you saying that because people reacted badly to those scenes that they must have been badly written?

 

[RedSky]

Oh yeah, I'm not saying you are wrong as we are batting around theories here. But I think it's pretty bad writing still because if it was all going nowhere, surely the tv guys would have cut a lot of it? See what I mean?

If i'm right then the writers were pretty quick to end the storyline though after the important bit.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

What I guess has happened is that George has told the writers what he plans to happen to the characters. But the problem is that there's no build up to those key events. So the writers are having to invent the buildup and making a total hash of it. Before the writers had hundreds of pages of material to go through and work out a decent script/plan for each story. Now they have none of that material except bullet point events.

That sounds very plausible indeed.

 

[Redlambs]

If i'm right then the writers were pretty quick to end the storyline though after the important bit.

Well yeah, and my point is that's shit writing! I said a few posts back that it's probably me wanting it to all be better written than that. I'm clutching at straws on that one, but not with Snow where we agree

Full circle complete

What exactly is your point because you seem incoherent to me obviously!

Obviously my friend But you have to agree that you have been pretty keen to fill in the blanks yourself rather than ask!

Are you saying that because people reacted badly to those scenes that they must have been badly written?

No, not at all. People reacted badly to every event, I still wish Ned would come back!

But there was just something off about certain events. Take Oberyn for example, half of us were shocked, the others were almost a little happy about how it was done. That strikes me as some knew it was coming (I'm going to look such an idiot now if that isn't in the books! ), whereas the Sansa rape and Shireen deaths were genuinely treated as shock to everyone. It just seems to me that It's getting clear what's in the books and what's written for t.v. Look even right now in this very thread about Snow's death, it's all being treated as a plot point and we are making theories far more than condemning it. That strikes me as a natural progression now we've thought about it, a real story. Sansa, Shireen, Stannis? Yeah we've had theories, but none make proper sense other than Shireen being Ep 9 and we all know that's the shocker traditionally.

This is why I'm so very tempted to hit the book thread, I think I care more now about if I'm looking an idiot than the actual show

 

[Sylar]

would be funny if the next season starts of with Jon Snows body being burnt in the first scene to stop him becoming a wight Then everybody realises "shit, hes actually gone"

 

[LeChuck]

I don't know if you are being genuine here or if it is actually interesting.

It's like...the common theory about Jon Snow's lineage + some crap about magic and fire. It's nothing special, tbh.

 

[Kaos]

Anyone else actively rooting for the white walkers now? There's pretty much no one likeable left alive south of the wall, so I hope they go to town on all of them, starting with the cnuts at the wall.

 

[Redlambs]

Go read the buzzfeed post that Uzz referenced above.

It's like...the common theory about Jon Snow's lineage + some crap about magic and fire. It's nothing special, tbh.

I assume that's the one Redsky broke to me in here?

But yeah I can see it. You'd have to be blind to not see there's something up there, and Snow's death only fuels that as he simply has to come back at some point or there's a lot of totally worthless nonsense going on!

 

[Redlambs]

Anyone else actively rooting for the white walkers now? There's pretty much no one likeable left alive south of the wall, so I hope they go to town on all of them, starting with the cnuts at the wall.

I said to the missus last night when watching again, that they are the only ones doing something for any real purpose! We don't know actually what that is, but at least they are one big fecking army, not a bunch of kids arguing

 

[GloryHunter07]

My theory (please note you may not want to read this if you are a casual tv viewer who doesn't want speculation)

Spoiler

I think the entire Stannis storyline is a vehicle for Melisandre to get to the Wall. George used Stannis as a red herring, when the key character is in fact Melisandre.

I keep picking up on her using the phrase Kings Blood and I think this is a really important plot device in the show. I don't know exactly how this works so here's my understanding:

- When a King dies it passes down to the next rightful ruler (next in line in the family tree).
- So when Robert Baratheon killed all of the Targaryens during the Rebellion the Targaryen line was wiped out making Robert the rightful ruler.
- When Robert was killed, the next rightful ruler (as pointed out by Ned Stark) was Stannis.

Melisandre has constantly been banging the drum from day 1 that Stannis was the rightful ruler. He was the one that should be King, he had "the Kings Blood" and that gave him power that normal men didn't have. So what changed?

Melisandre this season met Jon Snow. So lets assume that the theory about Jons mother being Lyanna Stark and his father was Raegar Targaryen is correct. That would mean that Robert Baratheon hadn't killed off the entire family tree and that would therefore mean that Robert never had the Kings Blood. He was a mere pretender, that in turn would mean that Stannis also never had the Kings Blood. So when Melisandre met Jon Snow (she discovered that he had the Kings Blood) and that therefore meant that Stannis was an imposter. So she led Stannis into a situation where there was no returning from and basically wiped out the Baratheon claim to the throne (removing a threat from Jon Snow).

The only hole in this argument is Daenerys? If all of the above is true why didn't Melisandre go to Daenerys rather than Stannis. Perhaps women aren't fit for ruling under the Lord of the Light? Thus meaning that Daenerys was never in contention for the throne in the eyes of the Lord of the Light?

Robert didnt kill all of the Targerians though, 3 survived. Aemon, Dany and douchebag brother.

Not to mention all of Robs bastards.

 

[LeChuck]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/you-know-nothing-tv-fans#.oi7A7D26M8


Only read if you want to know a fan theory about Jon Snow. Everything in that post above is from the TV show. There's nothing from the books or George Martin. That's my disclaimer before I'm quoted and Cina is tagged.

 

[Redlambs]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/you-know-nothing-tv-fans#.oi7A7D26M8


Only read if you want to know a fan theory about Jon Snow. Everything in that post above is from the TV show. There's nothing from the books or George Martin. That's my disclaimer before I'm quoted and Cina is tagged.

That's the first link I've actually clicked on from here, and I agree with it. I've read the first 2 books recently, but have avoided as many spoilers and talk in that direction as I can, and I can get behind that theory. There's been plenty of hints looking back, feck it I need to start from the beginning whilst waiting for next season now!

 

[crimsonife]

They might actually just be skipping Jon for one season. I've seen that fire theory and it's totally plausible.

Where will Sansa and Reek go though? Either the Wall because she doesn't know Jon's been stabbed or the Iron Islands because of Theon.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This is why I'm so very tempted to hit the book thread, I think I care more now about if I'm looking an idiot than the actual show

Read the books man, that is what I intend to do.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

I think Snow is dead.

He wasn't even my favorite character. I'd have loved if he has been killed off earlier along with that waster Sam Tarley. But having made him so central it seems odd to get rid now.

By the end of the series they'll pretty much kill everyone. I doubt there will be a 'happy ending'.

 

[LeChuck]

I like how the females in the religious group wear hijab.

 

[Kaos]

Did no one notice Ellaria tossing her handerchief away fail?

 

[Redlambs]

Read the books man, that is what I intend to do.

I'm going to mate, I've done the first two.

I get the feeling we aren't going to be any more clued up by this point though! We'll all be watching the next few seasons arguing over what possibly happens, and then:

By the end of the series they'll pretty much kill everyone. I doubt there will be a 'happy ending'.

That would be amazing!

 

[Tyrion]

I think Winterfell might be the place a lot of it kicks off, the Stark kids all return and all have their super powers. Apart from Sansa who they might as well fire from a catapult at the enemy.

Sansa is the only useless character imo. She lied to save Littlefinger and I thought she'd finally stopped being the victim. Now she's on the run from an abusive husband. Again.
My main wish for her storyline this season was that she'd start to be an influence in the series but it's just been harder to watch as she was married off to the biggest psycho in the series and tortured some more.

Pity that the one character that I absolutely hate (Dany) is probably never going to get killed, I have no idea whether it's the way her role is written or just the actress but I find her scenes hard to watch

That's what puts me off her character. She seems to be the only lucky contender for the throne.
She's abandoned and walks into fire, she comes out with dragons. She comes up to an impenetrable city, a mercenary leader kills his two partners and joins her side and the slaves of the city overthrow the rulers of the city suspiciously easily. She is dealing with a divided city, Tyrion Lanister is on the way who is conveniently well placed to govern the city while she's on holiday. She's trapped, surrounded by enemies and the dragon that has traveled across the whole region appears with less than 5 minutes warning and her bodyguards survive to look for her.

Spoiler: Speculation/Fear

I can see her crossing the Narrow Sea in a few seasons with the dragons, Unsullied, free soldiers who've joined her and 100,000's of Dothraki. If she attacks King's Landing with anything less than an Aircraft carrier she accidentally walks into, I'll be surprised.

I don't actually hate her. Certainly not compared to others. But it's hard not to be frustrated when much more interesting characters are killed off and betrayed in circumstances that she'd walk out of magically.