Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Ragnar123]

Barca are not officially owing FDJ. The deffered payment wasnt a deffered perse. My guess would be that FDJ in covid times agreed to a paycut with barca offering an incrementally larger wage in year 3 to account for covid. Maybe 100k 200k and 300k after 2nd year onwards.

I also assume there's no legal binding or penalty accrued since it's practically a new contract made before the wages are accrued so it's not officially a debt.

Morally speaking Barcelona are owing FDJ money sure. Perhaps.

FDK would probably lose some potential earning if he moved to United in his 2nd year since the big wages would start to kick in in the 3rd year.

Barcelona do not officially force FDJ out. And up to this point hasnt made a move that can be categorised as forcing a player unethically. Like benching him or sending him to train with kids like we did with BFS. So when it comes to court there's no legal standing in Barcelona trying to force him out. Vague comments made by media arent submittable officially. Barcelona did accept a formidable bid by United, and that's not the same with forcing a player out. At least legally.

FDJ would love his money, rightly so. In no condition of being forced out. Was brought touring, and probably would continue to get game time if he stays.

Barcelona also in no hurry to sell or go bust. They got that covered somehow with their leverage. Stupid moves? Who cares. Laporta is save for a good few years ahead.

Barcelona probably had a decision to just accept the bid. It's a win win. FDJ move they saved money. FDJ stays, no problemo. They might even force United to cover his wages. It's a right logical move since their survival dont hinge on FDJ being sold.

Very well said! I'd give it a like if I could.

Yes and he doesn't say Frenkie has to be the player. Also he is talking in plural form. Barcelona just left 5 players out of preseason. Umtiti, Neto, Mingueza, Riqui Puig and Braithwaite. Also Pjanic and maybe Depay have no future at the club. We have still time left in the transfer window to sell players. Frenkie would be the easiest and most helping of course, considering his wages this season onwards. But there will be exits no matter what.

 

[Plant0x84]

Utd are legally permitted from doing this directly so Barcelona will have to find cash to pay him off or(hypothetical) Utd agree to buy a Barca player being sold for a similar fee to the owed wages(Memphis is available for €20m) and work on finding a loophole from there that will look legitimate on the books

Sounds sketchy as feck. Not something United should entertain let alone get involved with.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The Cycle starts again. Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

All jokes aside though this one has got boring now. I've accepted he's probably not coming, so anything different will be a nice surprise.

 

[Sky1981]

We're legally permitted from doing this so Barcelona will have to find cash to pay him off or(hypothetical) Utd agree to buy a Barca player being sold for a similar fee to the owed wages(Memphis is available for €20m) and work on finding a loophole from there that will look legitimate on the books

What Barcelona wants, is for us to be desperate, save face, and offers FDJ bigger wage to account for his loss. The money doesn't have to be via Barcelona.

Barcelona legally owns FDJ nothing.

It's up to us to lure FDJ, making him an offer he can't refuse so that he moves and forgone his 3rd year big wages.

 

[stoinz]

Barca are not officially owing FDJ. The deffered payment wasnt a deffered perse. My guess would be that FDJ in covid times agreed to a paycut with barca offering an incrementally larger wage in year 3 to account for covid. Maybe 100k 200k and 300k after 2nd year onwards.

I also assume there's no legal binding or penalty accrued since it's practically a new contract made before the wages are accrued so it's not officially a debt.

Morally speaking Barcelona are owing FDJ money sure. Perhaps.

FDK would probably lose some potential earning if he moved to United in his 2nd year since the big wages would start to kick in in the 3rd year.

Barcelona do not officially force FDJ out. And up to this point hasnt made a move that can be categorised as forcing a player unethically. Like benching him or sending him to train with kids like we did with BFS. So when it comes to court there's no legal standing in Barcelona trying to force him out. Vague comments made by media arent submittable officially. Barcelona did accept a formidable bid by United, and that's not the same with forcing a player out. At least legally.

FDJ would love his money, rightly so. In no condition of being forced out. Was brought touring, and probably would continue to get game time if he stays.

Barcelona also in no hurry to sell or go bust. They got that covered somehow with their leverage. Stupid moves? Who cares. Laporta is save for a good few years ahead.

Barcelona probably had a decision to just accept the bid. It's a win win. FDJ move they saved money. FDJ stays, no problemo. They might even force United to cover his wages. It's a right logical move since their survival dont hinge on FDJ being sold.

thanks! This make sense.
Best option for him is to stay - either to piss Barca off or / and fight for his place. If he performs, there is no reason Xavi will cut his own nose and bench him.
Unless Barca threatens to bench him or demote him to under 18s, he should stay. And we should really move on to alternative targets or putting Savage/Zidane/Hanibal through some FDJ conversion program now.

 

[Chief123]

nobody is forcing him out.
Yes, the club pressures him through the press, but nothing officially is done. He is part of the pre season, every barca official says the club doesn't need him to leave. Would the club like him to leave this summer? Definitely. Does the club force him out? Definitely not.

To be fair they couldn’t force him out anymore than they already have. Told him to leave. Agreed fee with another club to sell him against his wishes.

The only other step they could take to force him out is physically throw him out of the training ground and take away his swipe access.

 

[RkkMan]

What Barcelona wants, is for us to be desperate, save face, and offers FDJ bigger wage to account for his loss. The money doesn't have to be via Barcelona.

Barcelona legally owns FDJ nothing.

It's up to us to lure FDJ, making him an offer he can't refuse so that he moves and forgone his 3rd year big wages.

The wages he's on are HUGE
Anything more would put him close to or on par with Ronaldo and as good as Frenkie is he's not worth offering almost double what he's earning. Even his current wage is excessive and unless the wages have A LOT of bonuses and incentives we'd have to walk away respectfully if it came to offering more money but I'm sure we have a good wage set for him if/when he comes

 

[Plant0x84]

What Barcelona wants, is for us to be desperate, save face, and offers FDJ bigger wage to account for his loss. The money doesn't have to be via Barcelona.

Barcelona legally owns FDJ nothing.

It's up to us to lure FDJ, making him an offer he can't refuse so that he moves and forgone his 3rd year big wages.

Correct, but the correct moral thing to do would be to reimburse him for some of his sacrifice for the club that he did in good faith. If they came to an arrangement I believe he would the content to leave the club and come to us. Trying to screw him out if 2 yrs wages is not right. It reflects very poorly on the club no matter how desperate their situation.

 

[RkkMan]

Sounds sketchy as feck. Not something United should entertain let alone get involved with.

If Barcelona completely refuse to pay what they owe some creative accounting will be necessary to get the deal done

 

[SirAF]

nobody is forcing him out.
Yes, the club pressures him through the press, but nothing officially is done. He is part of the pre season, every barca official says the club doesn't need him to leave. Would the club like him to leave this summer? Definitely. Does the club force him out? Definitely not.

Supports: Barcelona

Checks out! Barcelona are definitely trying to force him out.

 

[TheGame]

Barca is not withholding any money. Every player gets payed on what was agreed on so far. It would be nice if this misinformation would stop somewhere along the line.

But they are trying to get him to leave so they don't have to pay and they can get him off their wage bill to sign players without explicitly saying so. They wanted to hand out million euro contracts in the first place.

 

[Sky1981]

What I think Barcelona thinks :

We'd just take the bid for now, it's a good sum 75M. We could use the spare cash, and if FDJ accepts the move it'll meant he forgo his contract. Let's gamble a bid, maybe United the stupid English club is desperate enough, let's dangle them some carrot, say ambigous thing via the Spanish Media, let loose some rumors about FDJ loved to move, drip feed rumors about forcing FDJ to move. Let's see if United bites. If shits goes south, we can still sell to Chelsea, or PSG, or Bayern, FDJ is a good player. If United don't take the bait we'll just cover the 10M and sell him for 60M. At a potential 15M loss it's a gamble I'd take if I'm Barcelona

What I think FDJ thinks :

I'll be simply riding the waves and see where the wind blows. I know Barcelona has no problem with me staying, there's probably no direct "I'm not wanted" from Xavi, the big contract is kicking in. It's my payday. This is where I prefer to play. So Unless Barcelona making me very very uncomfortable like putting me in B team, or officially telling me I'm not wanted. I'll just see where it goes. I'd say a nice thing to Laporta, keep my avenue open. I'd say neutral things with a sprinkle of interest to United, who knows I need the plan B. Officially I'll say the right thing, and the right thing is to say I'm ok with where I am. If I decided to move nobody would hold me accountable. But if I say I want to move, the Barca fans would hate me, and if barcelona are not paying my wage, I'm Fecked. I'll be in an awkward position.

Why would I want to come at United for the same salary? This is my preferred club. So unless some big offer comes in. I'm quite happy where I am. I'm having proper game time, good chance for Trophy. Why would I want to risk coming to United for a potential 4th spot fight? And that's a big if. I could still move next summer, I believe in my ability. And United has been the graveyard of players, maybe I'll wait a bit and see how's the bald dude doing. I'm at Barcelona, not Stoke.

What United thinks:

???

 

[Plant0x84]

The wages he's on are HUGE
Anything more would put him close to or on par with Ronaldo and as good as Frenkie is he's not worth offering almost double what he's earning. Even his current wage is excessive and unless the wages have A LOT of bonuses and incentives we'd have to walk away respectfully if it came to offering more money but I'm sure we have a good wage set for him if/when he comes

The reason his wages are huge are because he gave up a large portion of his salary for 2 years. It’s the clubs doing not his.
His standard wage is around €260k, which is not astronomical by any stretch. I imagine we’ll pay him around the same amount.

 

[Sky1981]

The wages he's on are HUGE
Anything more would put him close to or on par with Ronaldo and as good as Frenkie is he's not worth offering almost double what he's earning. Even his current wage is excessive and unless the wages have A LOT of bonuses and incentives we'd have to walk away respectfully if it came to offering more money but I'm sure we have a good wage set for him if/when he comes

Except it's not that easy. Our season hinges on signing FDJ. And it will not look good losing FDJ after the whole summer being played like a schmuck.

If I'm Arnold I'd say feck it, here's 15M more and I become the hero. Rather than being pelted by eggs by the angry fans. Not my money anyway.

Realistically speaking, 15M is not much. Only our ego is hurt, money wise it really is peanuts.

But even with 15M it's only Par for FDJ. He'll need substantially more than that to lure him away from his preferred club.

 

[Plant0x84]

What I think Barcelona thinks :

We'd just take the bid for now, it's a good sum 75M. We could use the spare cash, and if FDJ accepts the move it'll meant he forgo his contract. Let's gamble a bid, maybe United the stupid English club is desperate enough, let's dangle them some carrot, say ambigous thing via the Spanish Media, let loose some rumors about FDJ loved to move, drip feed rumors about forcing FDJ to move. Let's see if United bites. If shits goes south, we can still sell to Chelsea, or PSG, or Bayern, FDJ is a good player. If United don't take the bait we'll just cover the 10M and sell him for 60M. At a potential 15M loss it's a gamble I'd take if I'm Barcelona

What I think FDJ thinks :

I'll be simply riding the waves and see where the wind blows. I know Barcelona has no problem with me staying, there's probably no direct "I'm not wanted" from Xavi, the big contract is kicking in. It's my payday. This is where I prefer to play. So Unless Barcelona making me very very uncomfortable like putting me in B team, or officially telling me I'm not wanted. I'll just see where it goes.

Why would I want to come at United for the same salary? This is my prefered club. So unless some big offer comes in. I'm quite happy where I am. I'm having proper game time, good chance for Trophy. Why would I want to risk coming to United for a potential 4th spot fight? And that's a big if. I could still move next summer, I believe in my ability. And United has been the graveyard of players, maybe I'll wait a bit and see how's the bald dude doing. I'm at Barcelona, not Stoke.

What United thinks:

???

We know that it not correct, it’s been reported.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

They are owed in the future, starting this season. But if he leaves now, barca doesn't owe him a penny legally. At least that's what logic says, because if he had any legal claim on the money despite the transfer, he would have left already.

”legally”, but feck me that is scumbaggery of the highest degree.

 

[Brownie85]

They have agreed a fee for his sale and told him to leave. Is that not forcing him out? Brainwashed

People are doing all they can to convince themselves the deal won't happen. I can understand that as we've been led on in the past but there's reports out there saying he needs to be sold and we've agreed a fee. If that's not a clear indication they want him out I don't know what is

 

[RkkMan]

Except it's not that easy. Our season hinges on signing FDJ. And it will not look good losing FDJ after the whole summer being played like a schmuck.

If I'm Arnold I'd say feck it, here's 15M more and I become the hero. Rather than being pelted by eggs by the angry fans. Not my money anyway.

Realistically speaking, 15M is not much. Only our ego is hurt, money wise it really is peanuts.

But even with 15M it's only Par for FDJ. He'll need substantially more than that to lure him away from his preferred club.

I doubt it and we don't know this for sure. I don't think he's so hell bent against joining us we'd need to pay MLS level wages to lure him here

 

[Sky1981]

We know that it not correct, it’s been reported.

To be fair we don't know what's behind Xavi's door.

For all we know the media could be briefed by Barcelona to stoke our interest and jacking up the price. There are intention FDJ, but only if the price is right.

 

[Plant0x84]

Except it's not that easy. Our season hinges on signing FDJ. And it will not look good losing FDJ after the whole summer being played like a schmuck.

If I'm Arnold I'd say feck it, here's 15M more and I become the hero. Rather than being pelted by eggs by the angry fans. Not my money anyway.

Realistically speaking, 15M is not much. Only our ego is hurt, money wise it really is peanuts.

But even with 15M it's only Par for FDJ. He'll need substantially more than that to lure him away from his preferred club.

We cannot pay Frenkies deferred wage ourselves, it is not legal. It simple cannot happen.
Also I would question why you would advocate for it when it’s questionable morally. Why should we pay Barcas debts?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What I think Barcelona thinks :

We'd just take the bid for now, it's a good sum 75M. We could use the spare cash, and if FDJ accepts the move it'll meant he forgo his contract. Let's gamble a bid, maybe United the stupid English club is desperate enough, let's dangle them some carrot, say ambigous thing via the Spanish Media, let loose some rumors about FDJ loved to move, drip feed rumors about forcing FDJ to move. Let's see if United bites. If shits goes south, we can still sell to Chelsea, or PSG, or Bayern, FDJ is a good player. If United don't take the bait we'll just cover the 10M and sell him for 60M. At a potential 15M loss it's a gamble I'd take if I'm Barcelona

feck me the stupidity on this post.

It might make a little sense if Frenkie and Ten Hag didn’t have a very good relationship

It would take one phonecall from the manager to his former player to tell the club, ”this is all Barça bollox, move on”.

 

[TheGame]

People are doing all they can to convince themselves the deal won't happen. I can understand that as we've been led on in the past but there's reports out there saying he needs to be sold and we've agreed a fee. If that's not a clear indication they want him out I don't know what is

The problem is the feckers don't want to give him the money and the jury still seems to be out on whether he wishes to leave or is being forced out.

 

[Plant0x84]

People are doing all they can to convince themselves the deal won't happen. I can understand that as we've been led on in the past but there's reports out there saying he needs to be sold and we've agreed a fee. If that's not a clear indication they want him out I don't know what is

The mind boggles. For what it’s worth I think the club have paid this one just right.

 

[Tavern in the town]

Except it's not that easy. Our season hinges on signing FDJ. And it will not look good losing FDJ after the whole summer being played like a schmuck.

If I'm Arnold I'd say feck it, here's 15M more and I become the hero. Rather than being pelted by eggs by the angry fans. Not my money anyway.

Realistically speaking, 15M is not much. Only our ego is hurt, money wise it really is peanuts.

But even with 15M it's only Par for FDJ. He'll need substantially more than that to lure him away from his preferred club.

Does it? That seems a bit dramatic.

 

[Brownie85]

What I think Barcelona thinks :

We'd just take the bid for now, it's a good sum 75M. We could use the spare cash, and if FDJ accepts the move it'll meant he forgo his contract. Let's gamble a bid, maybe United the stupid English club is desperate enough, let's dangle them some carrot, say ambigous thing via the Spanish Media, let loose some rumors about FDJ loved to move, drip feed rumors about forcing FDJ to move. Let's see if United bites. If shits goes south, we can still sell to Chelsea, or PSG, or Bayern, FDJ is a good player. If United don't take the bait we'll just cover the 10M and sell him for 60M. At a potential 15M loss it's a gamble I'd take if I'm Barcelona

What I think FDJ thinks :

I'll be simply riding the waves and see where the wind blows. I know Barcelona has no problem with me staying, there's probably no direct "I'm not wanted" from Xavi, the big contract is kicking in. It's my payday. This is where I prefer to play. So Unless Barcelona making me very very uncomfortable like putting me in B team, or officially telling me I'm not wanted. I'll just see where it goes. I'd say a nice thing to Laporta, keep my avenue open. I'd say neutral things with a sprinkle of interest to United, who knows I need the plan B. Officially I'll say the right thing, and the right thing is to say I'm ok with where I am. If I decided to move nobody would hold me accountable. But if I say I want to move, the Barca fans would hate me, and if barcelona are not paying my wage, I'm Fecked. I'll be in an awkward position.

Why would I want to come at United for the same salary? This is my preferred club. So unless some big offer comes in. I'm quite happy where I am. I'm having proper game time, good chance for Trophy. Why would I want to risk coming to United for a potential 4th spot fight? And that's a big if. I could still move next summer, I believe in my ability. And United has been the graveyard of players, maybe I'll wait a bit and see how's the bald dude doing. I'm at Barcelona, not Stoke.

What United thinks:

???

So Laporta has said if he wants to stay he needs to take a pay cut. He has no obligation to do so, but refusing too will likely cause Barca a lot of financial hurt.

Barca have also said that FFP means they have to sell players and that they can't say more on de Jong to United.

Xavi is reportedly open to selling de Jong as whilst he likes him as a player, he understands the financial need for him to go.

The big contract is the problem. They need him gone before that kicks in, otherwise they're in shit Street and their wage structure goes up in smoke big time. De Jong can, by all means, refuse to leave and refuse to take a cut, and make Barca honour their contract to him, but doing so will cripple the club. Would he do that to the club he supposedly loves? He's reportedly ruled out a pay cut so what open is left

 

[Plant0x84]

To be fair we don't know what's behind Xavi's door.

For all we know the media could be briefed by Barcelona to stoke our interest and jacking up the price. There are intention FDJ, but only if the price is right.

We don’t need to know ‘what’s behind Xavis door’ we can read exactly what Laporta and Alemany are saying in the press.

 

[Sky1981]

We cannot pay Frenkies deferred wage ourselves, it is not legal. It simple cannot happen.
Also I would question why you would advocate for it when it’s questionable morally. Why should we pay Barcas debts?

1. We can technically. Raising our bid to 90M and let Barca deal with it or simply Jacking up the signing Bonus for FDJ. FDJ doesn't care what we labeled the money. Money is money.
2. Morally speaking? Nobody forced us to buy a player, it's just football. We're free to walk away at any moment.
3. Barcelona are not forcing us legally or formally. They simply stood by with the current condition.
4. Barcelona never said they're not paying FDJ wages, up to now. They're "YET" to lie and cheat morally speaking. Accepting a bid is not the same with forcing a player out.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The fact he mentioned developing a player in that position made me think they've considered things and he would just continue with what he has, unless there is another player out there that he considers to fall under the bracket of the first part of what he said. We don't know if he was referencing de Jong alone, but he obviously considers it a possibility that we may not get him/other targets.

As I say, our biases lead us to believe what we want to believe.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

To be fair they couldn’t force him out anymore than they already have. Told him to leave. Agreed fee with another club to sell him against his wishes.

Of course they can, they show him he’s no longer considered a starter and that he’ll be spending lots of time on the bench. Probably starting with their first pre-season game.

 

[devilish]

I don't think it'll be a case of blame but a universal message of "we'll only sign the right players or none at all".

CM was last year's Achilles heel and the CM had actually been further weakened with the departure of Matic, Mata and Lingard. If we don't make it to top 4 then fingers will be pointed at. ETH's obsession and stubbornness towards anything Dutch league related will stick up like a sore thumb.

Maybe or maybe not...... If he spend big on say Neves and he turns out only half decent most people would bash him for wasted money like they do with Ole and Maguire, so its best we back the manager for now either way.
I personally feel we made our most important signing already, ETH himself.

There are many players that can improve CM without us having to spend 100m. We lack both quality and strength in depth.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Perhaps, I just can't see them leaving him on the bench every game though. I believe he was one of the last back to pre season training, so I expect he might not start the first game or two. We'll see in a couple of weeks how they are using him.

Every game of pre-season? I can.

 

[Sky1981]

So Laporta has said if he wants to stay he needs to take a pay cut. He has no obligation to do so, but refusing too will likely cause Barca a lot of financial hurt.

Laporta said many things, he also said he don't want to sell.

Barca have also said that FFP means they have to sell players and that they can't say more on de Jong to United.

This is sorted, they're Ok now. They're not forced to sale. Wise to sell but not forced to sell.

Xavi is reportedly open to selling de Jong as whilst he likes him as a player, he understands the financial need for him to go.

That's exactly ambigous line to keep us dangled.

The big contract is the problem. They need him gone before that kicks in, otherwise they're in shit Street and their wage structure goes up in smoke big time. De Jong can, by all means, refuse to leave and refuse to take a cut, and make Barca honour their contract to him, but doing so will cripple the club. Would he do that to the club he supposedly loves? He's reportedly ruled out a pay cut so what open is left

It is a problem, but it's a gamble they're willing to take. My guess is that they want FDJ gone, but are smart enough to make us pay and not being the bad guy.

FDJ staying will not cripple the club. It simply means Barcelona loses the gamble and probably pays his 10M and made him known that he's not wanted at the last minute. We wouldn't say no to that.

 

[Widow]

It wasn't a good sign when he got on the plane for the preseason tour of the US but we have to remember to relax, Frenkie goes to Hollywood, apparently.

 

[Real Name]

People take whatever managers say too literally.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

FDJ staying will not cripple the club. It simply means Barcelona loses the gamble and probably pays his 10M and made him known that he's not wanted at the last minute. We wouldn't say no to that.

Is exactly what I expect to happen.

Unless FdJ is a complete moron and has no self worth so he signs a new deal.

I see no scenario where he stays on his current deal.

 

[Real Name]

CM was last year's Achilles heel and the CM had actually been further weakened with the departure of Matic, Mata and Lingard. If we don't make it to top 4 then fingers will be pointed at. ETH's obsession and stubbornness towards anything Dutch league related will stick up like a sore thumb.

That and Fletcher getting promoted 2 times in 6 months.

 

[Sky1981]

Is exactly what I expect to happen.

Unless FdJ is a complete moron and has no self worth so he signs a new deal.

I see no scenario where he stays on his current deal.

Can united gamble with this?

We should just gave the whole deal a 2 day deadline or tell both of them to feck off.

But the problem is FDJ isn't that desperate to come, any bluff would be called straight up.

 

[Plant0x84]

FDJ staying will not cripple the club. It simply means Barcelona loses the gamble and probably pays his 10M and made him known that he's not wanted at the last minute. We wouldn't say no to that.

So then why advocate for dodgy deals and sketchy accounting or overpaying millions when waiting is the correct thing to do?!

 

[Sky1981]

So then why advocate for dodgy deals and sketchy accounting or overpaying millions when waiting is the correct thing to do?!

I never advocate that. If it's up to me I'd walk away.

Just saying that if we really want him to come his deferred payment is not a big issue. It's only 15M. We've spent 80 on Harry fooking Maguire.

And big signing bonus to lure a player aren't shaddy accounting, it's just us flexing our financial muscle. We don't even need to technically say we're covering his wages, just making him an offer he can't refuse.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Again and again and again.

We want Frenkie to stay, but FFP means we need to sell him, or he needs to sign a new deal.

If he signs that deal he’s a moron, because no, FFP means they could just, you know, stop signing new players and pay him as per his contract.
He’s obviously not “important”, but they want to butter him up, ideally they want him to give up tens of millions and stay.

Everything points to there being zero chance of him staying on his current deal, it’ll be a new one, or gone to United.