Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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sglowrider said:
He can't possibly stay at a club that doesn't want you. No other clubs are coming in for him other than the one being managed by his former coach -- who I am 100% has spoken to him and pitched him his vision of how he will be used at United. And a vision that will maximise Frenkie's talents and not one that restricts him like in Barca.
What's the natural conclusion then?

My concern isn't whether we can get Frenkie -- its more like there is a steep learning curve in the PL. Both Pep and Klopp had long runways. I am not sure United fans will afford ETH one as long.
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Except he can? He has a multi-year contract with Barca.

I really don't think he's as convinced to join us as everyone in here seems to think he is. Few things to consider: Messi is owed money, still left Barca, despite them wanting to keep him, unlike De Jong. The reports of his constant communication with ETH have dried up (which is a given, I highly doubt ETH has the time to be speaking to his old mate everyday when he's trying to prepare a team for the upcoming season in a foreign country tour)

Also - he may have told ETH that he was open to it at the start, but just like any individual with any potential occupation change, he may have considered and is no longer as convinced.

Simply put - if he wanted to be here, I doubt he would not have been already.
 
De Jong got less favored at Barca because they value homegrown talents like Pedri and Gavi.

Would be a cruel twist of fate if he came here and discovered Iqball and Savave were our own Pedri and Gavi. :wenger:
 
Womp said:
Except he can? He has a multi-year contract with Barca.

I really don't think he's as convinced to join us as everyone in here seems to think he is. Few things to consider: Messi is owed money, still left Barca, despite them wanting to keep him, unlike De Jong. The reports of his constant communication with ETH have dried up (which is a given, I highly doubt ETH has the time to be speaking to his old mate everyday when he's trying to prepare a team for the upcoming season in a foreign country tour)

Also - he may have told ETH that he was open to it at the start, but just like any individual with any potential occupation change, he may have considered and is no longer as convinced.

Simply put - if he wanted to be here, I doubt he would not have been already.
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On the first bolded part maybe the latter's contract was structured in a way that enables him to still get his money even after a departure whereas it's been keenly dissected that if Frenkie leaves that €20m gets dissolved which gives him a big reason to dig his heels.
On the second bolded part if De Jong respects Ten Hag then he'd simply call him and let him know that he's changed his mind which would then prompt us to move on but we haven't. Ten Hag is not the type to accept being led into blind alleys.
There's definitely a lot more than meets the eye in this deal
 
Womp said:
Except he can? He has a multi-year contract with Barca.

I really don't think he's as convinced to join us as everyone in here seems to think he is. Few things to consider: Messi is owed money, still left Barca, despite them wanting to keep him, unlike De Jong. The reports of his constant communication with ETH have dried up (which is a given, I highly doubt ETH has the time to be speaking to his old mate everyday when he's trying to prepare a team for the upcoming season in a foreign country tour)

Also - he may have told ETH that he was open to it at the start, but just like any individual with any potential occupation change, he may have considered and is no longer as convinced.

Simply put - if he wanted to be here, I doubt he would not have been already.
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Just hope everything will be resolved before the dreaded 1000.
 
Womp said:
Except he can? He has a multi-year contract with Barca.

I really don't think he's as convinced to join us as everyone in here seems to think he is. Few things to consider: Messi is owed money, still left Barca, despite them wanting to keep him, unlike De Jong. The reports of his constant communication with ETH have dried up (which is a given, I highly doubt ETH has the time to be speaking to his old mate everyday when he's trying to prepare a team for the upcoming season in a foreign country tour)

Also - he may have told ETH that he was open to it at the start, but just like any individual with any potential occupation change, he may have considered and is no longer as convinced.

Simply put - if he wanted to be here, I doubt he would not have been already.
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Bingo
Also does anybody actually thinks that Barca is that stupid to declined giving 20m to de Jong, when they can get 75m in return AND save 80m in salary for the next 4 years?
The economical factor make sense for Barca to give Frenkie his delayed wage, rather than holding out 20m and losing 75m and having to pay those salary
 
RkkMan said:
On the first bolded part maybe the latter's contract was structured in a way that enables him to still get his money even after a departure whereas it's been keenly dissected that if Frenkie leaves that €20m gets dissolved which gives him a big reason to dig his heels.
On the second bolded part if De Jong respects Ten Hag then he'd simply call him and let him know that he's changed his mind which would then prompt us to move on but we haven't. Ten Hag is not the type to accept being led into blind alleys.
There's definitely a lot more than meets the eye in this deal
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The thing is - we know feck all about his conversations with De Jong (if they even happened). What he has or hasn't told ETH is anyone's guess. Not to add, the same journos reporting ETH was in discussion with FDJ, are the same ones saying FDJ isn't set on joining.

How many transfers do you know which end up happening which have literally been stagnant for over a month? When was the last time we had any news that wasn't rehased, for example.

I just don't see this happening tbh. I highly doubt Barca are willing to lose so much money from the transfer and his stay over a 17m payment. Especially as they've shown they are more than happy to spend money when these mythical levers are pulled to get what they want.

It just seems like a player who initially may have been intrigued by the idea, who no longer wants to follow through with the change.
 
reelworld said:
Bingo
Also does anybody actually thinks that Barca is that stupid to declined giving 20m to de Jong, when they can get 75m in return AND save 80m in salary for the next 4 years?
The economical factor make sense for Barca to give Frenkie his delayed wage, rather than holding out 20m and losing 75m and having to pay those salary
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Barça want him to feck off without paying him the 17m, or paying him as little as possible so hell yeah it makes sense :lol:
 
DSG said:
Yes and no. It’s based on the fact that we are still chasing him. There’s no point in even putting in an offer for de Jong if he doesn’t want to sign a contract and has no interest in us. If it was a situation where the player’s contract was running down and he wanted a new contract from his current club, using us as leverage, that’s a different matter (Ramos). If the player wanted to move, but the club didn’t agree with us on price, also a different matter (Sancho). If there were several clubs in for him and he was using us to get the best offer from the club he really wanted to go to, also a different matter (Ronaldinho).

This is very clear. Barca want to sell him, we’ve met the price. No other clubs are coming in for him. Frenkie is owed back wages. If there was no chance of signing him because the player didn’t want to move and wanted to stay and fight for his place, then it would be over< we wouldn’t be wasting time.
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Maybe, maybe not, it could simply be a case of De Jong not saying an out right no to to us just to keep his options open and we are still chasing becuase there is a small glimmer of hope.
 
Womp said:
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I just don't see this happening tbh. I highly doubt Barca are willing to lose so much money from the transfer and his stay over a 17m payment. Especially as they've shown they are more than happy to spend money when these mythical levers are pulled to get what they want..
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Barça aren’t willing to lose that though, hence why they are at stalemate.
My guess, pre-season will be made clear to him that he’s not a starting player this season, a move Barça will believe gets him to drop his demands for full repayment.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Barça aren’t willing to lose that though, hence why they are at stalemate.
My guess, pre-season will be made clear to him that he’s not a starting player this season, a move Barça will believe gets him to drop his demands for full repayment.
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How exactly do we know this though? This is a club that is in severe financial turmoil who have just had a Galactico-esque window. Suddenly they are only financially savvy when it comes to De Jong's payments? It just sounds like posturing to me. They would be far better off both from a sporting and financial perspective if they were to pay him that money to feck off. They'd make a ridiculous amount of money from us and would get a player they no longer want off the books, which is why it's difficult to believe a 17m payment which is a fraction of the money they'd recoup from us alone would be what's holding up this transfer up for 2 months.
 
Womp said:
The thing is - we know feck all about his conversations with De Jong (if they even happened). What he has or hasn't told ETH is anyone's guess. Not to add, the same journos reporting ETH was in discussion with FDJ, are the same ones saying FDJ isn't set on joining.

How many transfers do you know which end up happening which have literally been stagnant for over a month? When was the last time we had any news that wasn't rehased, for example.

I just don't see this happening tbh. I highly doubt Barca are willing to lose so much money from the transfer and his stay over a 17m payment. Especially as they've shown they are more than happy to spend money when these mythical levers are pulled to get what they want.

It just seems like a player who initially may have been intrigued by the idea, who no longer wants to follow through with the change.
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First bolded part- That's the stance De Jong will stick to as long as he's owed the money no matter what. This is the obstacle that hasn't been fully explored to know FOR SURE how willing/unwilling the player would want to come
Second bolded part- Pogba and Maguire. Varane to a lesser extent
Third bolded part- You're right that Barca won't want to lose out on £17m in a £68m transfer which is exactly why Utd are waiting. Barca are trying to take the cheap option of selling without paying him off and like Utd/FDJ will drag things out as long as possible but at some point they'll have to make a decision and only then we'll see how the deal fully pans out
 
How the very f@ck do barca think they can be allowed to owe anyone £14m. I used to look at this club and think "that's how you run things..." Right now, I hope FdJ's lawyer is adding interest to the sum daily
 
RkkMan said:
First bolded part- That's the stance De Jong will stick to as long as he's owed the money no matter what. This is the obstacle that hasn't been fully explored to know FOR SURE how willing/unwilling the player would want to come
Second bolded part- Pogba and Maguire. Varane to a lesser extent
Third bolded part- You're right that Barca won't want to lose out on £17m in a £68m transfer which is exactly why Utd are waiting. Barca are trying to take the cheap option of selling without paying him off and like Utd/FDJ will drag things out as long as possible but at some point they'll have to make a decision and only then we'll see how the deal fully pans out
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Fair enough, I can see why some people would take that stance. I guess I'd just like to believe Barca would be smarter than to be delaying the inevitable. That being said, I'm really not sure how delaying the decision is benefitting anyone. It's reducing the opportunity for FDJ to come to terms with his move, it's potentially opening the window for United to get cold feet and look elsewhere, increasing the risk of FDJ getting an injury etc.

Not to add - with all the transfer business they are doing in the mean time, they're clearly illustrating to FDJ and United that they are in a position to clearly pay FDJ what he is owed, so it's hardly doing them any favours in that regard either.

I guess I'm just not convinced that's the reason this transfer hasn't gone through. Barca seem desperate to get rid of him and have shown they are financially irresponsible and are willing to pay money for things they want - just would be very convenient to assume they are finally being difficult on 17m when they'd recoup that money in troves with the sale of the player alone.

I guess we will find out soon enough regardless.
 
Womp said:
How exactly do we know this though? This is a club that is in severe financial turmoil who have just had a Galactico-esque window. Suddenly they are only financially savvy when it comes to De Jong's payments? It just sounds like posturing to me. They would be far better off both from a sporting and financial perspective if they were to pay him that money to feck off. They'd make a ridiculous amount of money from us and would get a player they no longer want off the books, which is why it's difficult to believe a 17m payment which is a fraction of the money they'd recoup from us alone would be what's holding up this transfer up for 2 months.
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Fee was agreed not even 10 days ago, so where you getting 2 months from?

I’ve maintained all along that Barça want/need one of two things, and their preferred thing would be to keep him, have him sign a new deal on the 150k /week he was on last season and therefore forgo 17m in back payments + tens of millions in future payments.
That would get Frenkie in line with their new wage structure and get them a midfielder for his entire prime years for ridiculously cheap.

What Barça cannot have, is his current wages going forward, they cannot sell off parts of the club every Summer.
 
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Trex said:
I would love that I'm a bigger fan, we shouldn't underestimate ETH ability to integrate youth and get the best out of them, he has a rich CV of achieving that from his time at Ajax.
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100% agree. One of the reasons wr appointed him, he has the past record to incorporate youth players.
 
If this will not be resolved soon he will stay. He said it multiple times, he likes it there and would have no problem to stay with barcelona. Imagine to havr to lose the complete preseason in a worldcup year.
If he stay for another 6 months they will play him anyway because he is too good. he will be able to transfer after a wc tournament and might go to a championsleague contender.

Do you really think he will transfer on the last day of the transfer window?
 
backpass said:
If this will not be resolved soon he will stay. He said it multiple times, he likes it there and would have no problem to stay with barcelona. Imagine to havr to lose the complete preseason in a worldcup year.
If he stay for another 6 months they will play him anyway because he is too good. he will be able to transfer after a wc tournament and might go to a championsleague contender.

Do you really think he will transfer on the last day of the transfer window?
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I think if he doesn’t sign a new deal with Barça they’ll do everything possible to kick him out and make it known he’ll spend a lot of time on the bench during a WC year.
 
Womp said:
Except he can? He has a multi-year contract with Barca.

I really don't think he's as convinced to join us as everyone in here seems to think he is. Few things to consider: Messi is owed money, still left Barca, despite them wanting to keep him, unlike De Jong. The reports of his constant communication with ETH have dried up (which is a given, I highly doubt ETH has the time to be speaking to his old mate everyday when he's trying to prepare a team for the upcoming season in a foreign country tour)

Also - he may have told ETH that he was open to it at the start, but just like any individual with any potential occupation change, he may have considered and is no longer as convinced.

Simply put - if he wanted to be here, I doubt he would not have been already.
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Barca does not owe him money. If they did, it wouldn’t matter if he left or stayed. The debt would be there. Otherwise, what would happen if he retired? Would the debt cease to exist? Would he have to continue to play until they repay?

They deferred his wages into the latter parts of his contract. That means there is no debt. The reason they want to sell him is because those wages will be voided when he signs a new contact with another team.

De Jong, quite rightly, feels they are now trying to screw him on his wages after he was kind enough to move 80% of his wages to the latter years of the contract to help them financially.

He is a his dream club. That probably doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be excited to play for Manchester United if the reality is that Barcelona can’t afford to keep him. I’m sure he would love to play here. But I don’t think anyone would want to move from their dream club and be screwed of £17 million + loyalty bonuses.
 
Can't we just give Barcelona the £17M and take one of their prospects as return. Somewhere they're deep. Stupid I know but damnit I want this done already
 
backpass said:
If this will not be resolved soon he will stay. He said it multiple times, he likes it there and would have no problem to stay with barcelona. Imagine to havr to lose the complete preseason in a worldcup year.
If he stay for another 6 months they will play him anyway because he is too good. he will be able to transfer after a wc tournament and might go to a championsleague contender.

Do you really think he will transfer on the last day of the transfer window?
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Just because a player says he wants to stay doesn't mean that he will stay. We've seen it loads of times when a player says they're staying and love the club only to move a month later. It's football, loyalty is a dying art now.

He says in public I want to stay, in private we have no idea what's being said
 
star-wars-quigon.gif
 
pocco said:
ETH interview has basically set the groundwork for us not getting him. We'll just say De Jong was the only "available" option that would work and we only want to sign the right players. We've got players who can be developed there etc etc.
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In another interview he said there’s a list. So we’ll look at them too
 
pocco said:
ETH interview has basically set the groundwork for us not getting him. We'll just say De Jong was the only "available" option that would work and we only want to sign the right players. We've got players who can be developed there etc etc.
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I think it's more about him putting his foot down by hinting that he doesn't want cheap knock offs. However we know the club more then he does so they'll probably interpretate it as you said. Then they will blame him for us not signing a new CM
 
sglowrider said:
My concern isn't whether we can get Frenkie -- its more like there is a steep learning curve in the PL. Both Pep and Klopp had long runways. I am not sure United fans will afford ETH one as long.
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Guardiola won the league in his second season, amassing 100 points. Not much of a runway needed.

Klopp finished fourth in his first full season at Liverpool. I think we'd be content with that, too.
 
devilish said:
I think it's more about him putting his foot down by hinting that he doesn't want cheap knock offs. However we know the club more then he does so they'll probably interpretate it as you said. Then they will blame him for us not signing a new CM
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I don't mind not getting De Jong this window, Klopp had to wait to get Van Dijk. If he doesn't think there's another player out there worth splashing the cash at then I'll back him on that.
Especially considering we have some good young midfielders and the fact he's helped a lot of young players to develop their game at Ajax.
 
I'm thinking that whilst he's on tour, the chances are we're not going to hear much, unless Barca develop some sense, get their lever money in and pay de Jong what he's owed. Then we should see some movements. Until then, it's just going to be more of the same, winding people up and frustrating them
 
Trex said:
I don't mind not getting De Jong this window, Klopp had to wait to get Van Dijk. If he doesn't think there's another player out there worth splashing the cash at then I'll back him on that.
Especially considering we have some good young midfielders and the fact he's helped a lot of young players to develop their game at Ajax.
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We can't afford another season of McFred especially since our CM is actuallyweaker then last year's. Also playing well in preseason games is a different cup of tea to real football else Periera would have been the new Paul Scholes
 
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