Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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If we don’t get FdJ and decide the other alternatives are too shit/expensive, I think we could possibly see a double pivot of Fred & Eriksen, with Martinez supporting from behind and Dalot pushing up into a defensive midfield position on the right similar to how Walker does for City. With any two of the three pushing forward and Bruno then floating left and right to support the forwards and create overloads. Leaving a square 4 at the back.

We’ll get some innovations with EtH, he’s not Ole pashun Solskjaer, nor Ralf spoofer Rangnick.
 
Calm before the storm. So obvious.
 
BuzzKillington said:
If we don’t get FdJ and decide the other alternatives are too shit/expensive, I think we could possibly see a double pivot of Fred & Eriksen, with Martinez supporting from behind and Dalot pushing up into a defensive midfield position on the right similar to how Walker does for City. With any two of the three pushing forward and Bruno then floating left and right to support the forwards and create overloads. Leaving a square 4 at the back.

We’ll get some innovations with EtH, he’s not Ole pashun Solskjaer, nor Ralf spoofer Rangnick.
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What have I just read…
 
Raiden Shogun said:
Again, I don't buy this 'owed deferred wages' having any type of legal ramifications for Barca. He and his agent likely got stitched up good and proper as nobody foresaw him leaving. IF he had any legal case, he could leave and sue us from Manchester as I've posted before, Barca won't be paying him 17mil.

I think had the club sat down with he and his agent, he would of accepted reduced wages in line with the new wage cap Laporta has implemented but instead, the club disrespected him, he's pissed. Wait for the dust to settle and I still think it's an option he might accept. Xavi wanted Bernardo Silva to replace him, it's looking impossible so I won't be surprised if the club start to backtrack, him going on tour might be the first sign. If not this summer, I'm pretty sure he will be leaving though. He doesn't work in the role Xavi plays him in and it's a waste of the players time and the clubs.
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Ye completely agree with this, someone(agent) fecked up somewhere and his only leverage is to refuse to move in the hope Barca buckle and make some sort of deal with him.

I cant see him getting 17mil from them either, so its all about if United blink and give Barca extra money up front to resolve the situation, but then again is there not big tax implications on that?
 
Gandalf said:
Clearly we don't think the available options are enough of an upgrade to warrant spending money on though. I have not really seen any credible alternatives mentioned that would actually perform the role the way the Manager wants and it is perfectly ok for him to feel he can improve someone currently in the squad. Maybe the magical unicorn that is Donny will finally find a role deployed deep with the tutelage of his old boss, perhaps Hannibal will be a revelation played there or maybe after 60+ games for Forest Garner is ready to kick on. FDJ was a nobody when Erik gave him that role at Ajax, the answer is not always to throw money at every problem.
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Lets hope you’re right mate. I can’t help being a little worried though.
 
Raiden Shogun said:
Again, I don't buy this 'owed deferred wages' having any type of legal ramifications for Barca. He and his agent likely got stitched up good and proper as nobody foresaw him leaving. IF he had any legal case, he could leave and sue us from Manchester as I've posted before, Barca won't be paying him 17mil.
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What don’t you buy about this?

His wages were deferred to help the club during the height of the pandemic, the wages were not forfeited.

Barcelona absolutely owe FDJ the 17 mil and he’ll be getting it one way or another. Especially with all the future revenue being sold off… first step to liquidation.
 
TrebleFan99 said:
What don’t you buy about this?

His wages were deferred to help the club during the height of the pandemic, the wages were not forfeited.

Barcelona absolutely owe FDJ the 17 mil and he’ll be getting it one way or another. Especially with all the future revenue being sold off… first step to liquidation.
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Whilst I agree. Im not sure his wages were legally deferred which is probably why there is an issue right now. Morally of course Barca need to pay him and Im sure they will.
 
It is this summer or never. Next year, plenty of top clubs will go back to the market after a disappointing season and try to strengthen. We are lucky that this summer none were really in for this type of midfielder for this kind of money.
 
Hmm his wage was over 14 million before Covid, then he was paid 3 million and 9 million for two seasons. That‘s less than 50%.
 
Cassidy said:
Whilst I agree. Im not sure his wages were legally deferred which is probably why there is an issue right now. Morally of course Barca need to pay him and Im sure they will.
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I mean legal or not won’t make a difference. Can you imagine what would happen to their reputation if they didn’t pay him? No player would want to play for them, period. And they’re obviously smart enough to know that and will eventually pay up.
 
NewYorkRed said:
I mean legal or not won’t make a difference. Can you imagine what would happen to their reputation if they didn’t pay him? No player would want to play for them, period. And they’re obviously smart enough to know that and will eventually pay up.
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Acting as if you do not see players signing for them this summer.
 
NewYorkRed said:
I mean legal or not won’t make a difference. Can you imagine what would happen to their reputation if they didn’t pay him? No player would want to play for them, period. And they’re obviously smart enough to know that and will eventually pay up.
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If I understand the situation correctly I’m not so sure they will pay him. when he deferred his contract was extended by 2 further years so the new contract replaced the old one. The obligation is a moral one to pay him what he *should* have earned in the last two years, rather than then owing him anything legally. Obviously its a shitty way to cheat an employee but I bet businesses that aren’t Barca fc do his kind of crap legally all the time.
I would guess that why Laporta is trying to shift the choice onto Frenkie, so he *chooses* to walk away from the money rather than being told Barca won’t pay.
 
Cassidy said:
Acting as if you do not see players signing for them this summer.
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Plant0x84 said:
If I understand the situation correctly I’m not so sure they will pay him. when he deferred his contract was extended by 2 further years so the new contract replaced the old one. The obligation is a moral one to pay him what he *should* have earned in the last two years, rather than then owing him anything legally. Obviously its a shitty way to cheat an employee but I bet businesses that aren’t Barca fc do his kind of crap legally all the time.
I would guess that why Laporta is trying to shift the choice onto Frenkie, so he *chooses* to walk away from the money rather than being told Barca won’t pay.
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The players are joining this while this is happening, its not settled yet. If it ends up with them not paying him what he is due trust me there will be backlash from players.

Right, thats what I said, it is a moral obligation but one that if they don’t make good on then good luck to them trying to sign other top players. Can you imagine working for a company where you knew management did this to a fellow employee? Not a chance would you work for them in future. Zero.
 
NLunited said:
Hmm his wage was over 14 million before Covid, then he was paid 3 million and 9 million for two seasons. That‘s less than 50%.
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Why did they give him such high wages to begin with? Barca's pull should have been enough. I think we were linked with him but it wasn't anything serious. Who else was he linked with? Bayern?
 
Cassidy said:
Acting as if you do not see players signing for them this summer.
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They’re bringing players in but in my opinion they should not be allowed to spend on transfers without paying their current roster of players the money they are owed. They’re making their own financial situation even worse which is hard to imagine. How their supporters are behind this is beyond me. As mentioned in my previous post they are headed down the road to liquidation.

Not to mention the unprecedented financial doping that is the selling of future revenue, absolute bizarre from Barcelona.
 
peridigm said:
Why did they give him such high wages to begin with? Barca's pull should have been enough. I think we were linked with him but it wasn't anything serious. Who else was he linked with? Bayern?
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PSG. Maybe other teams as well, I can‘t remember if any of the rumors were from trusted sources. City, Bayern.

His wages are substantial but not ridiculous. Barça will be on the hook for more than twenty million a year (including deferred wages) unless they get their heads out of their arses.
 
BuzzKillington said:
If we don’t get FdJ and decide the other alternatives are too shit/expensive, I think we could possibly see a double pivot of Fred & Eriksen, with Martinez supporting from behind and Dalot pushing up into a defensive midfield position on the right similar to how Walker does for City. With any two of the three pushing forward and Bruno then floating left and right to support the forwards and create overloads. Leaving a square 4 at the back.

We’ll get some innovations with EtH, he’s not Ole pashun Solskjaer, nor Ralf spoofer Rangnick.
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We could also try to develop Zidane into that role too. It seems he is perfectly fit to play under ETH system, and he is highly rated by our manager too according to reports.
 
peridigm said:
Why did they give him such high wages to begin with? Barca's pull should have been enough. I think we were linked with him but it wasn't anything serious. Who else was he linked with? Bayern?
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Before he went to Barcelona? I believe PSG and City were mentioned as interested clubs at that time.
 
arthurka said:
Anyone get Di Maria vibes from this?
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Nawh more like Fabregas and Bale when Moyes came in. Neither of them were actually interested, which brought us to overspending on Fellaini on deadline day even though we could have gotten him for half the price a month earlier when he had an active release clause
 
Devilyouknow said:
Because we only had a broad agreement on the total but not on the addons. Barcelona just weren’t accepting the structure of the deal until we offered more upfront. As far as I remember it was tweeted that they would accept the fee if we front loaded more of the fee anyway and they did. That’s the easy part done.
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The original reported deal was 65m + 20m in add ons. Barca and United is figuring out how to pay the 20m. They already agreed the fee was 65m upfront. Their negotiation should be on how to pay the 20m, not increasing the basic fee because that would mean that United were giving Barcelona a favor. Since the other issue then is de Jong salary, wouldn't it make sense that United relent to helped with the wage issue?
If that still does not work, either Barca renegade on their part to fix the wage issue with de Jong OR de Jong himself rather stay and make Barca paid him his salary even with the risk of not being played/played out of position and let Barca figure out themselves how to register the other players.

There's a real chance that de Jong use United as a safety net, that if all the above failed, he had the option to come to United rather than backing himself in a corner with only the above options
 
Carrick_16_Red said:
Good Point... That is really surprising. Maybe Barca just bluffed and got an increased offer from us. Now they are again back to lowballing FDJ.
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yeah it's not being talked about and I find it pretty strange. United was willing to pay more to make sure the deal gets done as we saw with Martinez. It doesn't really make sense that United are willing to pay more upfront and get nothing in return. There's a possibility that Barca told us they promise to sort it out with de Jong even after getting the extra money, but then renegade on the promise. But there's also a possibility that de Jong himself doesn't really fancy himself playing in Europa League with the level of talent our current team have and is doing everything in his power to stay at Barca and only come to us when there's no other way.
I'm leaning more on the second scenario because I think Barca themselves would favor the first scenario much more since it helped them a great deal
 
peridigm said:
Why did they give him such high wages to begin with? Barca's pull should have been enough. I think we were linked with him but it wasn't anything serious. Who else was he linked with? Bayern?
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I think because PSG made a big salary offer that Barca had to beat to land De Jong in early 2019.
 
Not sure if this was posted here, but this twitter thread by SwissRamble explains the financial issues in great details, including the current issues of players registration.

It is a very long thread though

 
FrantikChicken said:
Nawh more like Fabregas and Bale when Moyes came in. Neither of them were actually interested, which brought us to overspending on Fellaini on deadline day even though we could have gotten him for half the price a month earlier when he had an active release clause
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Half the price?

Release clause 23.5 million, we paid 27.5 million.

An extra 4 million.
 
Suedesi said:
Don't believe the Barcelona propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

It's inconceivable to me that Lewandowski has taken a paycut to join an inferior team it just doesn't add up.
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Barcelona’s summer spree is not about building a team but selling a story
 
Nytram Shakes said:
That’s just speculation. That’s just hoping that De Jong does want to and will agree come here if the defected wages gets sorted. Most reports state that he is reluctant to move here. You can interpret that as been entirely down to not wanting to discuss moving until the differed wage situation is sorted, but that is pure speculation based on no fact.
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Yes and no. It’s based on the fact that we are still chasing him. There’s no point in even putting in an offer for de Jong if he doesn’t want to sign a contract and has no interest in us. If it was a situation where the player’s contract was running down and he wanted a new contract from his current club, using us as leverage, that’s a different matter (Ramos). If the player wanted to move, but the club didn’t agree with us on price, also a different matter (Sancho). If there were several clubs in for him and he was using us to get the best offer from the club he really wanted to go to, also a different matter (Ronaldinho).

This is very clear. Barca want to sell him, we’ve met the price. No other clubs are coming in for him. Frenkie is owed back wages. If there was no chance of signing him because the player didn’t want to move and wanted to stay and fight for his place, then it would be over< we wouldn’t be wasting time.
 
lex talionis said:
Very helpful. What I'm struggling with is how much of what we consider to be facts are actually facts. Do we really know as fact, for example, that Barcelona need Frenkie to leave so that they can sign new players? If this is fact, fact then United are sitting in the catbird seat and it's only a matter of time before Barcelona bend to our will.
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The financials have been heavily reported by multiple sources, all corroborating the same thing.

There is a possibility that Barca uses other means to cut payroll and Frenkie stays, but everyone agrees that the must cut payroll, including Barca themselves.

That’s why United are prepared to wait it out IMHO.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
Not sure if this was posted here, but this twitter thread by SwissRamble explains the financial issues in great details, including the current issues of players registration.

It is a very long thread though

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So even SwissRamble agrees. It's only a matter of time before Barca has to sell Frenkie.
 
Raiden Shogun said:
Again, I don't buy this 'owed deferred wages' having any type of legal ramifications for Barca. He and his agent likely got stitched up good and proper as nobody foresaw him leaving. IF he had any legal case, he could leave and sue us from Manchester as I've posted before, Barca won't be paying him 17mil.

I think had the club sat down with he and his agent, he would of accepted reduced wages in line with the new wage cap Laporta has implemented but instead, the club disrespected him, he's pissed. Wait for the dust to settle and I still think it's an option he might accept. Xavi wanted Bernardo Silva to replace him, it's looking impossible so I won't be surprised if the club start to backtrack, him going on tour might be the first sign. If not this summer, I'm pretty sure he will be leaving though. He doesn't work in the role Xavi plays him in and it's a waste of the players time and the clubs.
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Three scenarios:
1. A furlough where the company basically says EVERYONE, even the tea lady, takes a 10% or 20% cut in wages. This is to protect the company from going under. This has legal precedence, the wages are not deferred, and no one will get them back.
Or
2. The company goes to certain individuals and asks them to take a pay cut. Voluntary. Will not get wages back.
Or
3. The company goes to certain employees and asks them to defer wages. In this case, there is a legal document that outlines the terms of the deferment. If the document does not cover any transfer scenarios, then you’re in a gray area, legally speaking, so there is some risk. And no one wants to go to court because it is expensive and time consuming and contentious.

I don’t believe, however, that there are many courts that would side with Barca on this. The wages are owed for work already delivered, and therefore, should be paid. The manner of payment may be a question and the point of contention. Barca most likely want to string it out or not pay it at all, whereas Frenkie wants it all at once.
 
TrebleFan99 said:
Barcelona absolutely owe FDJ the 17 mil and he’ll be getting it one way or another
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So basically you are implying that we are wasting time on a player who genuinely loves Barca and wants to stay there. Which is clear from the fact that he is blocking the transfer though as you said, he will get the money "one way or another".
 
Womp said:
It's just about common knowledge that Barcelona wants to sell FDJ. The pressing issue at the moment seems to be if he wants to come here.
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He can't possibly stay at a club that doesn't want you. No other clubs are coming in for him other than the one being managed by his former coach -- who I am 100% has spoken to him and pitched him his vision of how he will be used at United. And a vision that will maximise Frenkie's talents and not one that restricts him like in Barca.
What's the natural conclusion then?

My concern isn't whether we can get Frenkie -- its more like there is a steep learning curve in the PL. Both Pep and Klopp had long runways. I am not sure United fans will afford ETH one as long.
 
It seems the same stuff need repeating here over and over again. Especially about the most pressing issues.

Also isn't it strange that ETH previously said he doesn't talk about other clubs players and now he's talking about FDJ.
 
arthurka said:
Anyone get Di Maria vibes from this?
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If anything, it feels more like Sancho 1.0. In both situations, there are/were real questions as to how much their clubs were willing to sell.

I know that the clubs have agreed on the fee, but Barcelona can stil kill the deal if they don’t settle with FDJ. I want to believe that Murtough has direct info from either De Jong’s agent or Barcelona that they will get things across, but I don’t know how he can be sure. Laporta absolutely cannot be trusted.
 
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