Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[golden_blunder]

The wage cap is set by the league yes, but logically that would fluctuate on a clubs financials.

There is a figure constantly quoted of -144m, if Barca get enough cash in then logically that would move towards the green and give room to sign players & manage the wage bill.

Explained in great detail here. Ideally they want rid of course but what can they do? Drop him to the bench? Reserves? If he doesn't leave, not much else they can do.

https://www.espn.in/football/barcel...F9d5Orkb2i5CDLt6QdYSl6RvMURMLFdKdqa-5tnpzgyI0

Ultimately there is nothing they can do aside from make the rest of his time a living hell, which suits nobody.

the reports I’ve read all put their wage cap just shy of 100m euro which is set for the season so don’t matter if they suddenly fall in a bucket of money or not. If they can’t meet their wage cap some players will remain unregistered until they can. By selling frenkie it will give them wiggle room in the cap to add a couple more

 

[Berbaclass]

Just put him on ignore.

I don’t need to man. It’s no harm to me haha.

It’s all a bit of fun.

 

[Brownie85]

I never really doubted that he’d go on tour. I don’t really consider that a significant development because as you say he is still a Barca player and the deal is not close to being done. I don’t really think him being on tour with them is an obstacle in any way either though. I’m sure United expected him to go.

Of course they did. If they didn't, then i imagine that we would have walked away by now. The fact we've not, shows that we fully expected this and we're happy to see it out until it reaches a point where we really can't continue pursuing it anymore. I don't think it'll reach that stage, and it'll be done sooner or later.
When that'll be, i don't really know, but i'm hoping it'll be before the season starts.

 

[Tarrou]

In what way would that weaken their stance? My reading of this is that the player has basically said he's not budging, as he doesnt want to leave and is owed potloads of money,. He's in the tour squad so they dont waste a good player and if he's in training and playing then that just supports his position at the club.

because they want him to leave and if the request to move comes from him they’ll be able to make a case that they don’t owe him the deferred wages

if they leave him out of the tour squad that stance gets weakened considerably as he is clearly being pushed out

I think the chances of him staying there are very low now, after the way they’ve treated him

all that remains to be decided is how much will Barca end up paying of his deferred wage.. they clearly don’t want to pay it and he is standing firm too

 

[Brownie85]

Ultimately there is nothing they can do aside from make the rest of his time a living hell, which suits nobody.

the reports I’ve read all put their wage cap just shy of 100m euro which is set for the season so don’t matter if they suddenly fall in a bucket of money or not. If they can’t meet their wage cap some players will remain unregistered until they can. By selling frenkie it will give them wiggle room in the cap to add a couple more

Pretty sure too that if Memphis was to go, and the others fringe players that they want rid of, they'd have more than enough wiggle room to add everyone they've signed upto now, plus Silva and Kounde. If they keep hold of Frenkie, they'll likely not get either SIlva or Kounde, which i imagine wouldn't go down too well with the Barca heirarchy, especially if they were to go elsewhere

 

[RkkMan]

I've been pessimistic today but this did get me thinking there's still something in this FDJ deal

 

[pratyush_utd]

I've been pessimistic today but this did get me thinking there's still something in this FDJ deal

This has been repeated here countless times. Its why English reporters have always maintained that the issue is deferred payments.

 

[Berbaclass]

I've been pessimistic today but this did get me thinking there's still something in this FDJ deal

There hasn’t been any significant development either way since we agreed a fee mate. Anything else at the moment is rumours.

 

[Adisa]

I've been pessimistic today but this did get me thinking there's still something in this FDJ deal

Of course there is. Anyone that thinks FDJ and ETH haven't spoken needs their heads checked.
The question is if depending on what FDJ and his agent(who is also close to United) say in private alone to persist with this pursuit is misguided.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Pretty sure too that if Memphis was to go, and the others fringe players that they want rid of, they'd have more than enough wiggle room to add everyone they've signed upto now, plus Silva and Kounde. If they keep hold of Frenkie, they'll likely not get either SIlva or Kounde, which i imagine wouldn't go down too well with the Barca heirarchy, especially if they were to go elsewhere

They need cash for the transfer fees that they are paying for Raphinha and Lewa. And no matter who they move, they need FDJ to take a paycut to be able to afford him.

 

[Trophy Room]

Is there a way to mute this thread?

 

[Berbaclass]

Is there a way to mute this thread?

Of course

If you’re on windows go onto the C drive and find the system32 folder and delete it. Should work.

 

[Sandikan]

Is there a way to mute this thread?

There is actually an "ignore thread" button.
But you could always try something crazy like... not clicking into the thread in the first place?

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

It reminds me of LVG and his love of Kevin Strootman. Allegedly Strootman so vital to LVG’s system at the WC that he even called postion #6 the Kevin Strootman role.

Yes, that was even more of an odd one given the player we were chasing.

I want De Jong, but not at the expense of us risking getting no one else.

 

[Brownie85]

I've been pessimistic today but this did get me thinking there's still something in this FDJ deal

And that's proof enough that if a player isn't interested, ten Hag will move on. Its clear that de Jong wants to come and ten Hag knows that.

 

[Scholsey2004]

because they want him to leave and if the request to move comes from him they’ll be able to make a case that they don’t owe him the deferred wages

if they leave him out of the tour squad that stance gets weakened considerably as he is clearly being pushed out

I think the chances of him staying there are very low now, after the way they’ve treated him

all that remains to be decided is how much will Barca end up paying of his deferred wage.. they clearly don’t want to pay it and he is standing firm too

Which to me sounds like the definition of a stalemate. Imo it would be a lot easier to push him out if they isolated him from the squad entirely as theyve done with the deadwood. I think this will need to go on the back-burner for now. We can come back to it if something changes but i'm starting to get very cynical. I think the player basically views us as his safety net if all else fails. And 'all else' could take some time to play out.

 

[Berbaclass]

And that's proof enough that if a player isn't interested, ten Hag will move on. Its clear that de Jong wants to come and ten Hag knows that.

The Ten Hag and Frenkie relationship is absolutely key here and the main driving force behind this deal.

Frenkie I’m sure has a lot of time and respect for Ten Hag and I’m 100% certain he’d tell him or would have already told him he doesn’t want to come here.

As far as I’m concerned if they’re speaking regularly then that’s an absolute concrete sign that this will happen. Who knows though

 

[RedMilo]

As far as I know, Barca have not said they’ll pay the deferred wages. The improved (or restructured) offer might have something to do with it or it might be because they want some liquidity to complete signings they are making. Nothing is clear in this.

I agree we will look like mugs if this deal doesn’t happen. We generally come off as losers in transfers anyway.

Yes, FDJ really would have loved to stay at Barca but I can’t see him feeling that way since they’ve been crapping on him. He wants to get paid the wages he thinks he is “owed”. Sounds like he’s signed a contract that loaded his wages into the latter years. He has been playing for a reduced wage on the understanding of it balancing out over the next few years. If he leaves, he can’t collect that “extra” money (which is really deferred wages by another name, the difference being Barca don’t actually owe him the money at this point). If the money gets sorted he will leave and “multiple sources” have repeatedly said he wants to come.

Your assuming that everyone is being honest about the situation. It wouldn't surprise me if the agent has used Utd interest initially (he has multiple other Utd players on his books) to ward off Barca's attempts to reduce his clients salary again, but the more it has developed the more it has backfired, because you have a very interested party wanting to sign him, a club that is very interested in selling him due to their financial situation, and a player that at every turn is saying I love it at Barca. He has just bought a house there, loves the lifestyle and it is his childhood dream club - he respects Utd but he loves Barca. This situation feels very wrong to me, if FDJ doesn't end up at Utd, then Im sorry we have been led a merry dance by someone involved in the deal..

 

[Water Melon]

Of course

If you’re on windows go onto the C drive and find the system32 folder and delete it. Should work.

Bless ya, made my day

 

[Daslogisch]

Obviously United would have walked away if Frenkie had no intention of joining. It's bizarrre people even suggesting otherwise. There's no sane reason at all for United to keep chasing a lost cause. Frenkie knows EtH very well, he wouldn't keep him waiting if he knows he's never joining.

It's clearly the wage thing that makes things complicated. Frenkie doesn't want to be mugged off and he's completely in his right to take that stance. Obviously it's United's choice to wait for it to be solved.

I just wonder how it's going to end. If Barca is actually able to register the new players without this being resolved, this stalemate could last all window long and the deal might actually fall through. If Barca can't register the new players without Frenkie leaving, they'll give in at some point.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

So ... if we have agreed a fee with Barca and De Jong wants to come to United ... what is the hold up ?

If its the deferred wages then how difficult would it be for De Jong to come to some kind of payment arrangement with Barca after he left ?

Something does not add up with this transfer.

Surely there is no chance United would chase this guy for this amount of time unless they had been given assurances from De Jong that he would be happy to come to United.

 

[Berbaclass]

Bless ya, made my day

 

[spottieottiedopaliscious]

Do you think it’s likely?

I don’t know when their tour lasts until but I would guess September 1st

Their last game in the US is July 30th and they have one last preseason game on the 5th. La liga then starts the next week. I would think all parties would want to have it resolved by then. Especially if the deal factors into them being able to register / sign new players. I don’t know what to believe or take as the truth. I just hope he’s signed by the start of the season.

 

[Adam-Utd]

So lets say hypothetically he wants to come but is waiting for Barca to pay.

At which point does this come to an end? what will be the breaking point?

 

[Trigg]

Move on to who? This is the player which ETH wants. There arent that many players who can do what FDJ does. We will give it that as much time as it is possible because alternatives may not suffice for ETH style of play.

They’ll be a plan b, they has to be a plan b. They best be bloody plan b!

EtH managed when Ajax sold De Jong so it’s not alien to him to not have De Jong. I hope we do get him but my confidence is most certainly waning as the days ago by.

 

[Berbaclass]

So lets say hypothetically he wants to come but is waiting for Barca to pay.

At which point does this come to an end? what will be the breaking point?

That’s the murky part of this isn’t it. Apart from those close to either party who really knows.

I think United seem relaxed so I guess they expect Barca to sort it out with him first. That’s my interpretation of the situation anyway.

 

[Tarrou]

Which to me sounds like the definition of a stalemate. Imo it would be a lot easier to push him out if they isolated him from the squad entirely as theyve done with the deadwood. I think this will need to go on the back-burner for now. We can come back to it if something changes but i'm starting to get very cynical. I think the player basically views us as his safety net if all else fails. And 'all else' could take some time to play out.

Barca need to sell, so it will get resolved eventually so can’t remain a stalemate

whether the player sees us as a safety net or not, I’m not sure how it’s very feasible for him to continue at Barca

they’ve completely mugged him off

 

[Scholsey2004]

I’m confused, now you’re saying there was reporting done by the press that supports your belief that the wages weren’t deferred but were forgiven in exchange for an increased wage in a new and improved contract….but are at the same time saying that the press that is currently reporting the issuing being non payment of deferred wages (which doesn’t support your opinion) is less credible? To me it seems as if you are just choosing to believe the reports that support your position while discrediting those that contradict you.

Perhaps you are more litigious than I am, but for me the first step in negotiating a release from a contract is not to run to a court but to engage in a negotiation with your counterparty. I posit that what we are witnessing is the negotiation of the release, through the press. It has everything to die with the deferred wages, as well as loyalty bonuses and perhaps whether De Jung’s deferred wages should also include an element of an interest rate as well.

I think what he's suggesting is that everyone has presumed that the player is still contractually entitled to the money he lost out on which may not be the case. If he waived the money outright on the promise of 'jam tomorrow' then he may well not have a legal right to the money if he leaves now. Considering how naiive he seems in his dealings with Barca you cant rule that out.

 

[Berbaclass]

Sport have been quiet for a few hours.

Can’t believe they haven’t yet claimed he’s been seen burning United shirts in his back garden and punched someone in the airport with a United shirt on. They’re slacking today.

 

[Adam-Utd]

That’s the murky part of this isn’t it. Apart from those close to either party who really knows.

I think United seem relaxed so I guess they expect Barca to sort it out with him first. That’s my interpretation of the situation anyway.

It just seems like a western showdown doesn't it? FDJ knows he has a contract and is happy where he is. He's in no rush to leave.

Will Barca wait it out until the last moments of the window then when they have no other choice promise to pay?

I think this isn't going to be decided anytime soon unfortunately. If the club keep maintaining though that we haven't given up, it must be clear that FDJ is happy to come.

If we brief we have given up and moved on, then we know not much is changing. If Barca really HAVE to sell though I just don't see how it doesn't get sorted somehow?

 

[Harry190]

To get played/mugged by such clowns takes a real doofus. Silly boy.

 

[sewey89]

I’ve been out all day and can’t be arsed with 20 pages of doom .

@Berbaclass.. tell me it’s still happening please

 

[DanH]

Your assuming that everyone is being honest about the situation. It wouldn't surprise me if the agent has used Utd interest initially (he has multiple other Utd players on his books) to ward off Barca's attempts to reduce his clients salary again, but the more it has developed the more it has backfired, because you have a very interested party wanting to sign him, a club that is very interested in selling him due to their financial situation, and a player that at every turn is saying I love it at Barca. He has just bought a house there, loves the lifestyle and it is his childhood dream club - he respects Utd but he loves Barca. This situation feels very wrong to me, if FDJ doesn't end up at Utd, then Im sorry we have been led a merry dance by someone involved in the deal..

Why would you need to use United to stop Barca from reducing his salary?

He would surely just say 'no, I don't need to sign a new contract. You have no option but to pay me'

 

[B. Munich]

Because he knows it doesn’t matter. If he signs for us tomorrow and start putting up good performance, nobody will remember this saga.

True but what will happen if he doesn't hit the ground running and needs time to adapt to the new league?
All the knives will be out and accusing him to give his all, because he doesn't want to be at United at the first place.

 

[Berbaclass]

It just seems like a western showdown doesn't it? FDJ knows he has a contract and is happy where he is. He's in no rush to leave.

Will Barca wait it out until the last moments of the window then when they have no other choice promise to pay?

I think this isn't going to be decided anytime soon unfortunately. If the club keep maintaining though that we haven't given up, it must be clear that FDJ is happy to come.

If we brief we have given up and moved on, then we know not much is changing. If Barca really HAVE to sell though I just don't see how it doesn't get sorted somehow?

I’m pretty certain this drags on for another month probably. You have to say though. The longer De Jong stays silent the more you have to question his supposed intentions to stay.

It’s sort of easy to forget he could come out and easily squash this and guarantee he stays there by publicly stating his intentions to do so. His silence + fee agreed tells you what you need to know in my opinion.

 

[pratyush_utd]

So ... if we have agreed a fee with Barca and De Jong wants to come to United ... what is the hold up ?

If its the deferred wages then how difficult would it be for De Jong to come to some kind of payment arrangement with Barca after he left ?

Something does not add up with this transfer.

Surely there is no chance United would chase this guy for this amount of time unless they had been given assurances from De Jong that he would be happy to come to United.

Why should he allow Barca the flexibility when they are buying new players and publicly dumping him?

 

[Berbaclass]

I’ve been out all day and can’t be arsed with 20 pages of doom .

@Berbaclass.. tell me it’s still happening please

Don’t think much has changed since the fee was agreed personally so yes.

 

[harms]

Yeah, sunglasses in a plane.

Give him a break, the only sun he’s going to see in Manchester would be owned by Rupert Murdoch.

 

[Kush]

Of course there is. Anyone that thinks FDJ and ETH haven't spoken needs their heads checked.
The question is if depending on what FDJ and his agent(who is also close to United) say in private alone to persist with this pursuit is misguided.

There's nothing FdJ or his agent have said or done which gives the impression they want to sort out the deferred wages and complete a transfer to Utd. In fact, they are completely content in letting things carry on as player wants to stay, and he'll be eventually paid what he's owed anyway. There's zero urgency from player or his camp to speed up this transfer, and this is what a lot of fans are frustrated with. Not that manager and player haven't spoken, it's obvious they have. But, the said player isn't as keen either.

If a better club than us came calling, you can bet your house, they'd have sorted this a while ago and completed a move.

 

[EngimaMK]

The thread that shows no sign of ending