Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Cassidy]

Even if he is coming to United how is it logical .

From a manager perspective getting the players in brings certainty for planning for the season. Im sure ETH is less worried about delays at the cost of 10m euros. And if Eriksen is signed for free then the impact on available budget for the other positions is neutralised. Hence logic

 

[JPRouve]

Even if he is coming to United how is it logical .

Why is it not logical, what makes it stupid?

 

[Infestissumam]

What should the club do? In your eyes

up the offer for De Jong. If Barcelona want €85m and we value him at €65m (both according to Ducker/Telegraph yesterday), then there's certainly middle ground to be found. If you're serious about getting him, €65m won't do the trick. I feel like I'm more patient than others, but at some point, you have to make progress on a signing or look for alternatives. I'd up to offer to around €75m, and if they reject that, you have to move on. Can't waste more time and energy.

 

[Cassidy]

up the offer for De Jong. If Barcelona want €85m and we value him at €65m (both according to Ducker/Telegraph yesterday), then there's certainly middle ground to be found. If you're serious about getting him, €65m won't do the trick. I feel like I'm more patient than others, but at some point, you have to make progress on a signing or look for alternatives. I'd up to offer to around €75m, and if they reject that, you have to move on. Can't waste more time and energy.

Logical thinking again. If Barca are really desperate to sell if we move on they will come back to the table. If not then maybe there were not as desperate as we anticipated before anyway.

 

[NewYorkRed]

up the offer for De Jong. If Barcelona want €85m and we value him at €65m (both according to Ducker/Telegraph yesterday), then there's certainly middle ground to be found. If you're serious about getting him, €65m won't do the trick. I feel like I'm more patient than others, but at some point, you have to make progress on a signing or look for alternatives. I'd up to offer to around €75m, and if they reject that, you have to move on. Can't waste more time and energy.

I agree. Bayern didn’t want to pay what liverpool were asking for Mane. They made a low ball offer, and then quickly came back with a more acceptable one (still short of pool’s valuation). We didn’t want to pay what Dortmund wanted for Sancho..and they didn’t sell him to us that summer. We didn’t want to pay over the odds for Maguire…and in the end we did anyway.

Nobody’s saying pay what barca want, but this whole “they’ll just accept a lower sum if we just wait” thing is dumb and doesn’t work. Just go back in with another offer.

 

[croadyman]

Is it logic? Eriksen has ruled United out according to Athletic today.

The Spurs reporter for The Athletic

 

[Cassidy]

I agree. Bayern didn’t want to pay what liverpool were asking for Mane. They made a low ball offer, and then quickly came back with a more acceptable one (still short of pool’s valuation). We didn’t want to pay what Dortmund wanted for Sancho..and they didn’t sell him to us that summer. We didn’t want to pay over the odds for Maguire…and in the end we did anyway.

Nobody’s saying pay what barca want, but this whole “they’ll just accept a lower sum if we just wait” thing is dumb and doesn’t work. Just go back in with another offer.

To add to that it doesn’t need to take 4 weeks either.
Sometimes its as if United are trying to be too clever. With Sancho too trying to exploit the apparent financial situation of Dortmund which we miss calculated and now looks like we are doing the same with Barca

 

[gajender]

Why is it not logical, what makes it stupid?

Unless Ten Hag has categorically asked for a different Player than Eriksen who would also command transfer fee along with De Jong but is willing to settle on Eriksen if it ensures United end up With De Jong it doesn't make sense to me .

 

[JPRouve]

I agree. Bayern didn’t want to pay what liverpool were asking for Mane. They made a low ball offer, and then quickly came back with a more acceptable one (still short of pool’s valuation). We didn’t want to pay what Dortmund wanted for Sancho..and they didn’t sell him to us that summer. We didn’t want to pay over the odds for Maguire…and in the end we did anyway.

Nobody’s saying pay what barca want, but this whole “they’ll just accept a lower sum if we just wait” thing is dumb and doesn’t work. Just go back in with another offer.

Is that a thing? Because Barcelona's reporters said that United increased their offer. If Romero is correct the current offer is 70m plus bonuses. As for Bayern they barely offered more than the initially reported offer and it concerns a player that is on the last year of his contract, for Sancho we paid nearly 40m less than the rumoured fee Dortmund wanted the previous season and Bayern waited a year for City to lower their price regarding Sané which was a blessing since he injured himself after they abandoned.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I agree. Bayern didn’t want to pay what liverpool were asking for Mane. They made a low ball offer, and then quickly came back with a more acceptable one (still short of pool’s valuation). We didn’t want to pay what Dortmund wanted for Sancho..and they didn’t sell him to us that summer. We didn’t want to pay over the odds for Maguire…and in the end we did anyway.

Nobody’s saying pay what barca want, but this whole “they’ll just accept a lower sum if we just wait” thing is dumb and doesn’t work. Just go back in with another offer.

I dont get why people still bring up the Sancho example when we saved 27m the next year.

 

[Rolaholic]

Logic. Quite pissing about and get the deals done

 

[VP89]

Even if he is coming to United how is it logical .

Its not but there was just an easier way to disprove Mullock there

 

[Cassidy]

I dont get why people still bring up the Sancho example when we saved 27m the next year.

The next year when of course he would be cheaper. Our attempt to exploit their apparent economic situation that summer didn't work.

 

[Infestissumam]

Is that a thing? Because Barcelona's reporters said that United increased their offer. If Romero is correct the current offer is 70m plus bonuses. As for Bayern they barely offered more than the initially reported offer and it concerns a player that is on the last year of his contract, for Sancho we paid nearly 40m less than the rumoured fee Dortmund wanted the previous season and Bayern waited a year for City to lower their price regarding Sané which was a blessing since he injured himself after they abandoned.

all true, but I think the argument was that they wouldn't accept a lower offer at some point during this window. Sure, we saved money on Sancho, but we had to wait for a year.

 

[JPRouve]

Unless Ten Hag has categorically asked for a different Player than Eriksen who would also command transfer fee along with De Jong but is willing to settle on Eriksen if it ensures United end up With De Jong it doesn't make sense to me .

I don't understand your point. It makes perfect sense to target De Jong and Eriksen and consider that landing the both of them would be like signing two top midfielders for the price of one.

 

[VP89]

up the offer for De Jong. If Barcelona want €85m and we value him at €65m (both according to Ducker/Telegraph yesterday), then there's certainly middle ground to be found. If you're serious about getting him, €65m won't do the trick. I feel like I'm more patient than others, but at some point, you have to make progress on a signing or look for alternatives. I'd up to offer to around €75m, and if they reject that, you have to move on. Can't waste more time and energy.

But as Athletic reported, the gap is the difference for certain other targets. You would forgo them for getting De Jong in earlier?

 

[mu4c_20le]

The next year when of course he would be cheaper. Our attempt to exploit their apparent economic situation that summer didn't work.

Yes but I dont think we intended to pay 100m in the first place... would've been a mugging

 

[Cassidy]

But as Athletic reported, the gap is the difference for certain other targets. You would forgo them for getting De Jong in earlier?

Where does it say that the gap of 10-15m euros guaranteed is the different for other targets……..

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[izec]

There is no alternative to FDJ, i can agree with that and said so weeks ago when people wanted to move on. We will sit this one out another month if it needs to be

 

[JPRouve]

all true, but I think the argument was that they'd accept a lower offer during this window. Sure, we saved money on Sancho, but we had to wait for a year.

And that argument makes no sense. The club doesn't sign a player for a single window and doesn't consider a fee just due to one window, only football fans and journos do that. The point for the club is to not pay 40m extra.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes but I dont think we intended to pay 100m in the first place... would've been a mugging

Missing the point really. There was a date we were told which was a deadline to consider a sale. We could have negotiated the fee before then. We arrogantly chose to not take the date seriously and went to them after. We were told to get lost. Im pretty sure we could have negotiated a better fee than 100m euros that summer. And saving 27m well you have to also consider that you could lose out on 27m if you go into the season without the player and miss UCL

 

[gajender]

I don't understand your point. It makes perfect sense to target De Jong and Eriksen and consider that landing the both of them would be like signing two top midfielders for the price of one.

But that would still be true if we manage to bring the Price of De Jong further down by negotiating bit longer that's my point .

 

[Infestissumam]

But as Athletic reported, the gap is the difference for certain other targets. You would forgo them for getting De Jong in earlier?

in all honesty, I don't buy the "this gap prevents us from signing other players" argument one bit. If upping the offer to around €75m has that kind of effect, then this club is in even deeper trouble than I had thought. I don't want them to just pay what Barcelona is asking for, but in my mind, coming up with an improved offer that closes the gap a bit is necessary if you want to pull this off. De Jong is by far the biggest and most important transfer target this summer, you can't sit on your arse until July hoping that Barcelona will get more desperate.

 

[Cassidy]

But that would still be true if we manage to bring the Price of De Jong further down by negotiating bit longer that's my point .

Includes risk of losing the player to another club and/or delaying and disrupting planning for the new season of the new manager

 

[Cassidy]

in all honesty, I don't buy the "this gap prevents us from signing other players" argument one bit. If upping the offer to around €75m has that kind of effect, then this club is in even deeper trouble than I had thought. I don't want them to just pay what Barcelona is asking for, but in my mind, coming up with an improved offer that closes the gap a bit is necessary if you want to pull this off. De Jong is by far the biggest and most important transfer target this summer, you can't sit on your arse until July hoping that Barcelona will get more desperate.

Not to mention the longer you take the more risk of missing out on other targets for the other positions anyway

 

[Infestissumam]

And that argument makes no sense. The club doesn't sign a player for a single window and doesn't consider a fee just due to one window, only football fans and journos do that. The point for the club is to not pay 40m extra.

of course. And if the club is willing to wait for De Jong in 2023, then that's a different discussion. But hoping that Barcelona will lower their asking price this summer will only end in tears.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Includes risk of losing the player to another club and/or delaying and disrupting planning for the new season of the new manager

This is true. But i think we'll get him in the end, our valuations are not too far apart.

 

[Cassidy]

This is true. But i think we'll get him in the end, our valuations are not too far apart.

Lets hope we don’t miss out on our other targets in the meantime

 

[VP89]

Where does it say that the gap of 10-15m euros guaranteed is the different for other targets……..

in all honesty, I don't buy the "this gap prevents us from signing other players" argument one bit. If upping the offer to around €75m has that kind of effect, then this club is in even deeper trouble than I had thought. I don't want them to just pay what Barcelona is asking for, but in my mind, coming up with an improved offer that closes the gap a bit is necessary if you want to pull this off. De Jong is by far the biggest and most important transfer target this summer, you can't sit on your arse until July hoping that Barcelona will get more desperate.

From Whitwells article on The Athletic, who is Tier One so I believe this to be as accurate a reflection as we get:

Amid the impasse, murmurings have begun that Erik ten Hag is starting to get a little frustrated. He is said to understand United’s budgetary constraints — around £120 million — and knows that he would be able to afford certain additional signings if Barcelona can be convinced to accept the lower offer.

 

[Cassidy]

in all honesty, I don't buy the "this gap prevents us from signing other players" argument one bit. If upping the offer to around €75m has that kind of effect, then this club is in even deeper trouble than I had thought. I don't want them to just pay what Barcelona is asking for, but in my mind, coming up with an improved offer that closes the gap a bit is necessary if you want to pull this off. De Jong is by far the biggest and most important transfer target this summer, you can't sit on your arse until July hoping that Barcelona will get more desperate.

You could also negotiate better transfer fees for your other targets too. Or better structure for the deals.

 

[JPRouve]

But that would still be true if we manage to bring the Price of De Jong further down by negotiating bit longer that's my point .

The tweet doesn't go against your point, I think that you are interpreting it as pay whatever they ask when it's not what is stated. It's stated that the fee of De Jong will be large but acceptable if we also get Eriksen.

 

[gajender]

Includes risk of losing the player to another club and/or delaying and disrupting planning for the new season of the new manager

That's the fair point but nobody is stopping Another Club from coming in now and your other point while quite valid is bit mitigated by the the fact De Jong is quite versed in how Ten Hag wants him to play .

 

[Infestissumam]

From Whitwells article on The Athletic, who is Tier One so I believe this to be as accurate a reflection as we get:

Amid the impasse, murmurings have begun that Erik ten Hag is starting to get a little frustrated. He is said to understand United’s budgetary constraints — around £120 million — and knows that he would be able to afford certain additional signings if Barcelona can be convinced to accept the lower offer.

"additional" is key though. I read it more as "then we could maybe get even one more than we thought", not as "that would prevent us from getting our other targets".

 

[NewYorkRed]

I dont get why people still bring up the Sancho example when we saved 27m the next year.

Yeah

 

[Cassidy]

That's the fair point but nobody is stopping Another Club from coming in now and your other point while quite valid is bit mitigated by the De Jong is quite versed in how Ten Hag wants him to play .

Not mitigated by the fact he prefers a UCL club?

 

[VP89]

"additional" is key though. I read it more as "then we could maybe get even one more than we thought", not as "that would prevent us from getting our other targets".

No its clearly additional signings to De Jong.

 

[croadyman]

No its clearly additional signings to De Jong.

Fingers crossed for Eriksen and a CDM, won't mention other positions as worry where we get the funds from

 

[Cassidy]

No its clearly additional signings to De Jong.

Their fees could be negotiated too

 

[SER19]

Imagine hiring a new manager, with the monumental task of rebuilding a fallen giant, then him telling you there is one player he sees as absolutely essential - and you saying 'ya but we want to see can we get him for 15m euro cheaper'