Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Acquire Me]

This RAWK-like delusion is embarrassing, as is the whole dick measuring exercise about who is the biggest club

Give me Real Madrid's 14 CL's over fecking social media engagement any day.

Of course, how the team perform on the pitch matter the most. But if we are talking about us not being the biggest or at least one of the biggest clubs of all time, it’s something I will react on. Hearing people calling us tier 2 or some bullshit like that makes my blood boil.

I know we are in transition sporting wise, but we are still a massive club that players want to join. We have done a lot of mistakes after SAF. With better management we would never have slipped as far down as now.

That said, I am very excited about everything going on now. We just need to be patient with EtH, because it will not be great in a hurry.

 

[Baxter]

There is a line in the article mentioning that while the negotiations are ongoing, Utd will be paying dividends of £11m. Money well spent.

 

[Offside]

We didn’t chase Bruno for two windows at all, and barely ‘chased’ him in the actual window we signed him in.

I’m against the constant negativity but that’s just not true. Di Marzio said it was nearly a done deal in August 2019 and then the January 2020 transfer rumbled on as long as it can in a January window.

 

[TheHeya]

Turns out we’ve been negotiating for Luuk De Jong instead of FDJ. Reason he can’t join us he’s still on loan to Sevilla until 30th June. Expect movement after that.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Of course, how the team perform on the pitch matter the most. But if we are talking about us not being the biggest or at least one of the biggest clubs of all time, it’s something I will react on. Hearing people calling us tier 2 or some bullshit like that makes my blood boil.

I know we are in transition sporting wise, but we are still a massive club that players want to join. We have done a lot of mistakes after SAF. With better management we would never have slipped as far down as now.

That said, I am very excited about everything going on now. We just need to be patient with EtH, because it will not be great in a hurry.

At some point you will have to snap out of your denial. Its hard and takes time but its clear. We are very much on the same level as a Spurs, Arsenal. We are very much Tier 2 in the premier league and potentially tier 3 in europe. If you were to list out all the clubs in Europe in terms of performances, projects and quality id be amazed if we were top 10 or 12.

Whilst United is a massive name and in the past weir tier 1 or literally the top 1, we are a long long way off. Let me provide some context. Since we last won the league Inter, AC Milan have won Serie A two previous fallen giants.

We are in a bad period in our cycle and the problem is, there isn’t much end in sight, unless you accept the current state of world football you will be angry and upset that we can’t compete. Ultimately this all changes if Glazers sell And we get some sugar daddy owner.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

We have no leverage with this transfer, the player doesn't want to come, and Barca don't need to sell for less than they want, so I'm not sure what this is all about.

I'm sure if we wait a few more weeks we might get a few million off, but that'll be it, and that's risking it for the situation not changing, even then I don't see the gain outweighing the benefit of getting him sooner.

 

[Judas]

This has all the signs of a summer like 2013 when a new regime in the boardroom made a complete mess of the market.

Apart from the fact it looks quite obvious we're going to get our main target.

 

[hellhunter]

Apart from the fact it looks quite obvious we're going to get our main target.

We also did in 2013

 

[Drainy]

This keeps going down in 5m increments. Behind the scenes;

Barcelona - "€85 million"
United - "€65 million"
Barcelona - "€85 million"
United - "€70 million"
Barcelona - "€85 million"
United - "€75 million"
Barcelona - "€85 million..."
United - "fecking nailing this negotiating lark so I am."

When would the amount be paid? If its €85 with more of it paid in the future, its actually less

 

[Mr Pigeon]

When would the amount be paid? If its €85 with more of it paid in the future, its actually less

Ah mate, I can barely get my head around my household coffee pod budget let alone transfer fee policies.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Maguire. Chased for 2 summers
Sancho 2 summers
Bruno 2 windows

Thats are last 3 big signings. Maguire we ended up paying more than the original asking price from the 1st summer.

So going by previous activity we’ll sign De Jong next summer then. Again Im not saying that will happen by thats the context of previous summers.

Maguire, did we? We got linked but did we ever bid with Jose?
Sancho. No we just refused the ridiculous price. We made a huge offer, they declined and then we signed him for multiple millions less the next summer.
Bruno - outright lie. Lots of clubs were looking at him and no one wanted to take the punt, I think Spurs might have then put in a bid which prompted us to offer.

 

[sglowrider]

You think De Jong won't join City, PSG, Liverpool, Bayern or Chelsea given the chance?

City maybe but there rest, he will be a misfit in their respective systems just like he isn't being fully utilised at Barca.

 

[JPRouve]

We have no leverage with this transfer, the player doesn't want to come, and Barca don't need to sell for less than they want, so I'm not sure what this is all about.

I'm sure if we wait a few more weeks we might get a few million off, but that'll be it, and that's risking it for the situation not changing, even then I don't see the gain outweighing the benefit of getting him sooner.

If the player doesn't want to come then why his agent isn't making it clear that he won't agree on a deal with us? Is he waiting for both clubs to agree on a fee to say no?

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

If the player doesn't want to come then why his agent isn't making it clear that he won't agree on a deal with us? Is he waiting for both clubs to agree on a fee to say no?

I didn't say he wouldn't come, more it seems we are trying to buy a player who will probably come here, but is not exactly beating at the door to get out of Barca, so we don't have that factor on our side to help lower the fee.

 

[sglowrider]

No other club has the level of engagement we do, in the modern day that’s what determines size. This is the social media generation. Not even Madrid match us there.

Perhaps players will look twice because they don’t like the climate or the lifestyle in Manchester or they don’t see an immediate chance of success, both somewhat sensible reasons although they should be thinking about a long term stay. Poor recruitment has still undoubtedly hurt our reputation.

But if anyone thinks we’re no longer one of if not the biggest club in the world, they have no grasp of sport as a business or an industry.

Look at most of the players that have left United. From a high-profile perch to near oblivion.

Even the biggest social media king, Pogba, I bet his profile drops like a rock the moment he moves back to Italy. He will occasional pop up with some interview on some english language media or during his NT matches.

I bet even retired Uncle Pat will have more presence in the social media than Pogba once he goes back to Italy.

 

[sglowrider]

I dont think anyone is saying that were as successful as clubs like Madrid. Biggest doesn't equal most successful.

Precisely. Barca isn't that more successful than United in the CL and yet... even Liverpool has more CL silverware than Barca and yet Barca will always be the bigger club.

 

[bazza3727]

The op said biggest not one of the biggest.
Players do not count social media engagement over ability to win the biggest trophies.

Pogba supposedly did!

 

[devips]

If the player doesn't want to come then why his agent isn't making it clear that he won't agree on a deal with us? Is he waiting for both clubs to agree on a fee to say no?

Common sense, really. Noticeable by its absence in many of the caftards here.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I'm not really sure it's a positive that we can attract players who care a lot about their social media engagement. Call me crazy but I'd rather attract players who are interested in playing football.

United are still a big club but how many retweets a team get should never be a measurement of success, except to the dickheads in the marketing department.

 

[sglowrider]

If the centrepiece signing is who you're going to build the team around.... surely you'd like to identify someone you can get in first.

To identify someone who also you'd need to play poker and cat and mouse to get is a big drag on your activities in the window.

As much as the club want to create a new image of being thrifty, beggars can't be choosers.

Just like the famous scene in Margin Call, we must pay the price to move forward. If its a rebuild that's needed just get it done and start being more picky when you're at a reasonable standing in the footballing world.

I've said it before; if we don't put up a fight for getting a #6, imagine when we have to negotiate for a striker, who are usually more expensive than midfielders?

There are knock on effects in how we buy Frenkie.

 

[Fanta Stick]

To be fair, half of it was related to Di Maria and Pogba chat.

I figured there would be plenty of drift in there.

A lot of us are heavily invested in securing DeJong now, club better not eff it up.

 

[sglowrider]

I'm not really sure it's a positive that we can attract players who care a lot about their social media engagement. Call me crazy but I'd rather attract players who are interested in playing football.

United are still a big club but how many retweets a team get should never be a measurement of success, except to the dickheads in the marketing department.

What do you think the sponsors look at? How would Team View, Addidas etc determine how much they want to pay for the sponsorship of the club?

Hint: Its not based on the match-day crowd.

Without all that marketing money we would have been in a terminal financial state by now, especially after 10 years of dross.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

What do you think the sponsors look at? How would Team View, Addidas etc determine how much they want to pay for the sponsorship of the club?

Hint: Its not based on the match-day crowd.

Without all that marketing money we would have been in a terminal financial state by now, especially after 10 years of dross.

Oh, I agree that sponsorships are heavily important. But I'm just saying that the argument we can attract the best players because of our social media reach can lead us to really only attracting players who care more about their social media reach than their on pitch performances. You could argue that we have/have had players who are like that already.

 

[Berbasbullet]

What do you think the sponsors look at? How would Team View, Addidas etc determine how much they want to pay for the sponsorship of the club?

Hint: Its not based on the match-day crowd.

Without all that marketing money we would have been in a terminal financial state by now, especially after 10 years of dross.

In reality we should have used our stature and ability to generate money to sign committed and well chosen footballers/staff and created a football environment to succeed.

Unfortunately we have been horrifically mismanaged and not had proper footballing people in.

 

[padzilla]

If De Jong is as good as we expect him to be why not pay the asking price? It will be money well spent after all, if we don't think he is worth it then why sign him at all?

 

[TsuWave]

If De Jong is as good as we expect him to be why not pay the asking price? It will be money well spent after all, if we don't think he is worth it then why sign him at all?

United hasn't been great at ascertaining how good a player is/can be for United for a very long time, and "paying the asking price" is partially why we are where we are.

We clearly think he's worth something - just not as much as Barca wants us to pay.

 

[VP89]

If De Jong is as good as we expect him to be why not pay the asking price? It will be money well spent after all, if we don't think he is worth it then why sign him at all?

Athletic just said that a lower fee for De Jong will enable certain other targets fot Man Utd.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm not really sure it's a positive that we can attract players who care a lot about their social media engagement. Call me crazy but I'd rather attract players who are interested in playing football.

You are a bit crazy but not in this case. There is a case to be made about the idea that visibility matters for the players that are at the top of the game and have genuine marketing opportunities that could be enhanced by the biggest clubs own visibility but even then the difference between Barcelona, United, Real Madrid or Liverpool is likely marginal. If there is a difference it's going to be at a more detailed level for example a player that intends to spend his retirement years in a latin country would have more reasons to be linked with Real Madrid or Barcelona while someone that is more likely to live in northern Europe, the US or the UK could justify a preference for the top PL clubs.

In terms of marketing the globe tends to be divided in areas, some personalities have a global image but most don't and the ones that do base it on looks, PR and in the case of Football Champions League and World Cup narratives. Mbappé didn't make the cover of the Time because PSG is a global brand but because the World Cup is a global event that concentrates all eyes during a short period of time.

So to me if I was to sell a project to a player the most important aspects would be that the club wants to be on the biggest stages every year and is committed in helping all players achieve all their potential. Then I would add that the club is committed in helping players prepare their careers outside of football which includes education and marketing.

 

[crossy1686]

That proves my point more.

I used to work for a financial software company who had a great bar chart to show in the coming years what ST/LT debt is due in what year for a given company. All Barca has done has shifted the bars further down the chart. Everything they sold has to exponentially and dramatically increase in revenue for them to make the same money they were making before.

And they’ll be banking in La Liga doing them a favour down the line, or more generous bank loan terms with a change of government etc. if they kick the van down the road long enough they can bail out somewhere.

 

[VanDeBank]

Two questions

1. Which performance since his Barca move did you ever witness that suggests he is an elite midfielder worth anywhere near the money that's been quoted? Rather than pretty mediocre and very overhyped?
2. Have you ever considered why Barca are so eager to get rid of him? Yes, they need to save the money - but to invest it in players that they deem worth it, quality-wise..

He was hot shit when Koeman played him in a back 3. I've always liked him when I've seen him play without Busquets. How many midfielders can you name at the top level that can defend and dribble past players? He's been Holland's best player for years now.
He's not compatible with Busquets. Getting a more one on one replacement for Busquets somewhere along the line allows them to play a midfield 3 with Gavi and Pedri.
Furthermore, they're stacked in midfield and some of their other positions are absolute crap, like Dest at RB. Their only good CB is Araujo. They could solve those issues with the De Jong money.

If the player doesn't want to come then why his agent isn't making it clear that he won't agree on a deal with us? Is he waiting for both clubs to agree on a fee to say no?

That's a great point, Jean Paul.

 

[MrSingh2002]

I've said it before; if we don't put up a fight for getting a #6, imagine when we have to negotiate for a striker, who are usually more expensive than midfielders?

There are knock on effects in how we buy Frenkie.

That's true. But we've identified an already world class player again. One that plays at a world class club and has a long contract. We go around the roundabout again.

Rangnick was the first guy that outlined a better way of signing players who were looking for the next step in their journey. So they shipped him out. We can't have it both ways. Buying world class players and not expecting to pay top money.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Who's negotiating for FdJ, Fridge?

 

[Green Arrow]

Who's negotiating for FdJ, Fridge?

Mad Murtaugh

 

[JPRouve]

That's true. But we've identified an already world class player again. One that plays at a world class club and has a long contract. We go around the roundabout again.

Rangnick was the first guy that outlined a better way of signing players who were looking for the next step in their journey. So they shipped him out. We can't have it both ways. Buying world class players and not expecting to pay top money.

Rangnick approach is better for selling clubs, clubs that do not expect to be at the top, that are comfortable with the idea of signing young and raw players that will mainly flop and then sell the ones that are a success, that's how they balance the books. It's also not an approach created by Rangnick but one that is fairly common at non-elite clubs.

 

[sglowrider]

In reality we should have used our stature and ability to generate money to sign committed and well chosen footballers/staff and created a football environment to succeed.

Unfortunately we have been horrifically mismanaged and not had proper footballing people in.

That's 100% on Woodward.

 

[Leftback99]

If De Jong is as good as we expect him to be why not pay the asking price? It will be money well spent after all, if we don't think he is worth it then why sign him at all?

You can say that for any player.

 

[sglowrider]

Oh, I agree that sponsorships are heavily important. But I'm just saying that the argument we can attract the best players because of our social media reach can lead us to really only attracting players who care more about their social media reach than their on pitch performances. You could argue that we have/have had players who are like that already.

Agree. Pogba's our most recent example or worst case. But Becks IMO started the entire ball rolling on social media. Or really Posh Spice pushed him into it.

Before all that, we would have players posing for general magazines or football magazines or events. That was about it.

Simpler times. But those days the players would retire and hope they had enough to open a pub and survive on that --- and money from their testimonials. United also gave them a pension.

 

[tenpoless]

That member of the Belgian setup has no clue about football if he didn't know that before. A one eyed fisherman could recognise the special talent and ability the boy has.

That particular member of Belgian setup is Lukaku. That's why he was so impressed because he can't dribble nor trap anything with his feet.

 

[croadyman]

I just hope this is over soon. Whether he comes or not It's just getting annoying. The same news every day.
Getting nearer, Getting nearer. Wish we would just move on to other signings.

Won't happen until we know what's left

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If De Jong is as good as we expect him to be why not pay the asking price? It will be money well spent after all, if we don't think he is worth it then why sign him at all?

tight budget.