Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Chief123]

Sport in Spain really need to do their research in order to make their lies believable.

Linking him to Chelsea of all teams is absurd. They are desperately trying to rebuild every area of the team other than midfield. They need defenders and forwards in urgently yet we’re led to believe they are ready to splash 85m euros on a position they don’t need.

There’s more chance of FDJ being first choice CDM at Barca than him going to Chelsea. Even if FDJ pleaded to Chelsea to come and get him, they’d probably say no thanks.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

My Barca supporting extended family member is pretty adamant at this stage that he'll stay because he has zero intention of joining Utd, take a 40% or so pay cut, Barca will stop flirting with B. Silva, and they'll work out a way to sign all the new players. Also thinks it's hilarious that the British press keep posting that a club of Barca's stature can actually be held to ransom over €17m.

You’re Barça supporting mate is as stupid as the rest of them.
Of course they can be held to ransom, that’s why they lost Messi the thick shit. That’s what the FFP and their shite financial state is doing to them.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Walk away from this fecking deal. Time to have a bit of self respect.

I suspect we can’t because we need it as much as they do, because we don’t have a viable plan B lined up. Unless we want to pay a similar amount for a mediocre Neves type player.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Do people honestly expect the player or his agent to come out and say “I can’t wait to get away from this mess! They’ve really fecked me over” or something similar?

if he opens his mouth it’ll contractually be perceived as him wanting to leave and he will forgo his bonuses etc

FDJ's camp can "leak" to the press that he wants to leave and join Man Utd but his priority now is to resolve the deferred salary issues?

But the reality is all credible sources reported that FDJ's priority is still to stay at Barca. It's very weird because Barca is forcing him to take paycut and play him at CB ffs.

 

[Lynty]

Walk away from this fecking deal. Time to have a bit of self respect.

Do you not trust the manager?

 

[Massive Spanner]

You’re Barça supporting mate is as stupid as the rest of them.

He'd probably say the same thing about all of us!

Who even knows at this stage.

 

[mazhar13]

From what I know Dermot Corringan is reliable with Spanish News but mostly Madrid.
How correct am I? @mazhar13

He's good with Spanish news, overall. He has various connections that ensure that he has reliable information. In this article, however, much of what he's reporting isn't new. The only thing that is new is that his relationship with ten Hag isn't apparently that strong, which makes sense to me. Besides that, we've already known about our lack of attractiveness due to not being in the CL for the last couple of months. He's also added a ton of his own conjecture on the info that he's gotten, and given that he's both based in Spain and reporting on La Liga for many years, he's bound to have a La Liga bias.

Overall, the Spanish sources are telling us that de Jong doesn't want to leave. The English sources are telling us that de Jong should be fine with joining United as long as he gets his money. The only way United won't get de Jong is if a CL club starts to make a big push. At this time, none of them have, so until then, we're still in pole position.

 

[Chief123]

Just find it a bit boring at this stage. After 2 months would you not prefer to talk about a different potential transfer? After 1043 pages I'm not sure what else you could possibly have to talk about. I don't think the deal will happen, I think we're wasting time, I'm not happy we seemingly have no alternatives lined up. Are we only allowed to post in these threads if we believe a transfer is going to happen or should happen? A lot of people on here seem to take anything that isn't remarkably positive as a personal insult when it's simply an opinion.

That’s what other threads are for. This is a thread about FDJ, so all talk will be about FDJ. Naturally being our primary transfer target, most posts will be in here.

You’ll be surprised to know that the majority of posts in here are banter and dreams. We collectively don’t have a fecking clue but we’ll talk about every permutation. We’re not coming here to talk about the wife and kids doing our head in or the manager at work being a melon. We’re here to talk FDJ even if it’s a time pass and nothing but mere fantasy.

 

[giorno]

I just realised this guy looks like a young billy zabka, and do you really want to be associated with cobra kai?!?!

Just let barcelona go the way of Pretzel81...

 

[Zed 101]

Are we choosing between De Jong that wants to join United and De Jong that doesn’t? Or is it a hypothetical choice between a (significantly) lesser talented player and De Jong?

Agree so many unknowns, but then that is what we are dealing with on the forum if any of us had actual knowledge we wouldn't be posting it on here

I guess if we are talking hypotheticals I would rather have a player that wanted to be here over a player that wasn't 100% committed every time, you might get a tune out of the player who isn't fully committed, but last season goes to show what happens when players don't give their all, last thing we need as a club is to add more players who give up when the going gets tough.

That said if FDJ comes he might give his all regardless of whether he was forced here, if he comes I will be 100% rooting for him, but personally I would rather have somebody who was busting their guts to be here not somebody who appears to all intense and purpose unenthused, I accept it is difficult to gauge what his true feelings are but on what we have been shown by the media and by FDJ is not reassuring.

 

[Infra-red]

Sport in Spain really need to do their research in order to make their lies believable.

Linking him to Chelsea of all teams is absurd. They are desperately trying to rebuild every area of the team other than midfield. They need defenders and forwards in urgently yet we’re led to believe they are ready to splash 85m euros on a position they don’t need.

There’s more chance of FDJ being first choice CDM at Barca than him going to Chelsea. Even if FDJ pleaded to Chelsea to come and get him, they’d probably say no thanks.

One thing isn't entirely clear to me - if these Chelsea links are disinformation spread by Barca to their mouthpieces in the press, then why are they doing it? Why link their player with Chelsea? Barca have already reportedly agreed a fee with United for De Jong, so the motive for spreading news re Chelsea cannot be to get United to up their bid - the bidding process has concluded.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He'd probably say the same thing about all of us!

Who even knows at this stage.

They literally just got held to ransom and lost Messi one year ago, so he can say what he likes.

 

[r1z3mu]

People really do believe all the BS posted on internet, twitter and other media sources. Can you imagine 1000+ pages of moaning, spreading complete nonsense and arguing about nothing.

 

[Hoof the ball]

I don't know what to say really.
1000 pages
to the biggest battle of our muppetry lives
all comes down to this last month.
Either
we believe
as muppets together
or we are going to crumble.
post by post
tweet by tweet
till we're finished.
We are in hell right now, muppets.
believe me
and
we can stay here
and let Sport shit kick the shit out of us
or
we can fight our way
back into the light and wait for Ornstein to post.
We can climb out of hell.
One post, at a time.

 

[Massive Spanner]

They literally just got held to ransom and lost Messi one year ago, so he can say what he likes.

I don't know the full ins and outs but wasn't Messi's wage issue way higher than €17m and weren't they in a much worse position financially then?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

One thing isn't entirely clear to me - if these Chelsea links are disinformation spread by Barca to their mouthpieces in the press, then why are they doing it? Why link their player with Chelsea? Barca have already reportedly agreed a fee with United for De Jong, so the motive for spreading news re Chelsea cannot be to get United to up their bid - the bidding process has concluded.

Why on Earth does it have to be leaked? Not everything that shows up in a paper is leaked, 90% of it is Clickbait and there’s been very little movement in the story for weeks. Linking him to Chelsea is perfect for clicks which is what all media outlets need.

 

[Dazzmondo]

Are you kidding me? Of course what you do in that situation is say that you’re not prepared to do anything until you have a guarantee that those deferred wages will be paid. Barcelona are desperate to have a sell him or to make him reduce his wage, I close it becomes deadline date the more deaths but they will become. So yes a month would make a difference.

How does agreeing to the transfer now help him to get that money?

I seriously doubt Utd would go to this much trouble in terms of delaying the transfer, missing the entire pre-season and the start of the season, instead of simply paying an extra £17m for Barcelona to pay FDJ what he was due. If he wants to join Utd he should join the team and get used to playing with the squad as quickly as possible. If he values his money more, why not simply stay at Barcelona and take his full contract including his deferred wages that he's owed that he is legally entitled to for another 4 years? Again, nothing, aside from us simply continuing to actively try signing him, suggests that he wants to join Utd and his preference has clearly always been to stay at Utd, as reported pretty much everywhere, including by the most reliable journalists.

 

[Chief123]

One thing isn't entirely clear to me - if these Chelsea links are disinformation spread by Barca to their mouthpieces in the press, then why are they doing it? Why link their player with Chelsea? Barca have already reportedly agreed a fee with United for De Jong, so the motive for spreading news re Chelsea cannot be to get United to up their bid - the bidding process has concluded.

I don’t think it’s Barca leaking the stories. Barca have little to gain by throwing Chelsea’s name in there. Barca already have what they want with Utd giving them the price they want. It’s reported chelsea would never pay that price anyway.

The truth is there is very little news coming from the reliable sources. It’s mainly Sport in Spain who come up with a new story every day. It’s doing wonders for their click through traffic.

 

[bosnian_red]

Ornstein's paper just said he doesn't want to join. The fees been agreed for ages now as has been reported by Romero numerous times. If he really wanted to join he'd have agreed a deal by now. What's causing the delay? People will say his deferred wages, and what is delaying the transfer going to solve in this regard? He's suddenly going to get all his deferred wages in 1 month when they haven't paid it already?

Oh does Ornstein own the athletic? Is his name anywhere on the piece? Or is a random other guy who works for the Athletic? Stop saying stuff that is blatantly not true as an attempt to make it sound more reliable to suit your complaints! This Dermot guy is a random reporter who didn't even write a report. He put out an article and put a throw away comment in, essentially saying "noise is suggesting he doesn't fancy the Europa League". Its incredibly vague and not sourced at all, and not a report at all.

Literally none of us know what is going on, and the journos likely don't know the full story either. As I said, his #1 choice is to stay at Barca on his current contract and being a starter in midfield. If that's no longer the case, De Jong has some things to think about. If he made his mind up, there would have been actual reports by the actual reputable journos. Reputable journos, being Romero, Ornstein, Whitwell, Mitten, saying either Barca have decided to keep him, or United have decided to move on. No grey area. I guarantee you this would happen.

If he decides to ultimately leave, then I would bet he is open to it, purely because him and Ten Hag actually know each other and have worked with each other, and it's a simple conversation to have that requires nothing but a tiny bit of human decency. So it's crazy to think otherwise here. Not that it's a priority over just continuing in how he was at Barca, but as a plan b option.

What's causing the delay? Reportedly the deferred wages. Its 17m in wages. That's a Huge amount of money for a football club, let alone a player. No club is going to pay that for another club to just avoid an issue, and no player is going to forgo that. If he simply restructured his contract and didn't simply defer the wages, then he contractually isn't owed any money and Barca are just trying to cut him before they have to actually pay up. In which case, it gets complicated, and goes into "what is a happy medium where all parties are happy with this". Its a complicated situation. Maybe the situation is that the wages we're offering are not a whole lot different to what Barcelona want him to change his contract to. But he doesn't want to change his contract. But they'll treat him like shit if he doesn't. But but but but. There are a ton of variables going on, none of us truly know what is the case, the only things we know is that there are literally only 3-4 people worth listening to on the issue and nobody else, and those have been relatively steady and consistent in saying there are complications but that we are still interested.

 

[mazhar13]

One thing isn't entirely clear to me - if these Chelsea links are disinformation spread by Barca to their mouthpieces in the press, then why are they doing it? Why link their player with Chelsea? Barca have already reportedly agreed a fee with United for De Jong, so the motive for spreading news re Chelsea cannot be to get United to up their bid - the bidding process has concluded.

Anything from Sport that's not coming from either Ivan San Antonio or Joaquim Piera isn't coming from a Barcelona mouthpiece. It's the equivalent of The Sun or Express making up links based on their own conjecture.

 

[Ramshock]

fecking move on from this uppity bastard he thinks he is too good for us.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Ornstein's paper just said he doesn't want to join. The fees been agreed for ages now as has been reported by Romero numerous times. If he really wanted to join he'd have agreed a deal by now. What's causing the delay? People will say his deferred wages, and what is delaying the transfer going to solve in this regard? He's suddenly going to get all his deferred wages in 1 month when they haven't paid it already?

He must've been using us as leverage for negotiations with Barca. He came out of that meeting smiling because he only has to take a 40% pay cut instead of 50.

 

[Hansi Fick]

The Pogba agents fee was reported though, and Hazard’s because we do talk about fees when they are way beyond the norm, which this clearly was.

We don't know how much the fee was. With the Pogba one it's possible that it was reported as Juventus disclose this kind of stuff as part of their public trading.

And since we don't know it, it's disingenous to go around throwing numbers out there. What we do know is that Haaland is earning a massive, massive salary, in the vicinity of Neymar, Mbappé or Ronaldo, which is where the money City saved on the transfer sum went, as everyone anticipated. The existence of the release clause put Haaland and Raiola in the situation to negotiate massive wages.

 

[Zed 101]

I want quality players that fit the system the best. Sure, at some level of player comparison, you get into "who wants it more", but for the most part, that's irrelevant. Frenkie de Jong is a dream midfield signing for us, I'd rather sign him and nobody else than sign a group of other midfielders for half of the price total. Our potential is far higher with Frenkie than without. If he comes, you know Ten Hag will use him properly too. So that's all there is to it. Whatever he wants or doesn't want doesn't matter if he comes. A player will only down tools if they fall out with the manager pretty much. If they trust the manager and have a good relationship, then they'll give their all even if they want to eventually leave (like Ronaldo with Sir Alex). So that's not a worry.

I envy your faith and enthusiasm fingers crossed you are correct

 

[Shakesy]

I suspect we can’t because we need it as much as they do, because we don’t have a viable plan B lined up. Unless we want to pay a similar amount for a mediocre Neves type player.

How do you know this?

 

[Ramshock]

Oh does Ornstein own the athletic? Is his name anywhere on the piece? Or is a random other guy who works for the Athletic? Stop saying stuff that is blatantly not true as an attempt to make it sound more reliable to suit your complaints! This Dermot guy is a random reporter who didn't even write a report. He put out an article and put a throw away comment in, essentially saying "noise is suggesting he doesn't fancy the Europa League". Its incredibly vague and not sourced at all, and not a report at all.

Literally none of us know what is going on, and the journos likely don't know the full story either. As I said, his #1 choice is to stay at Barca on his current contract and being a starter in midfield. If that's no longer the case, De Jong has some things to think about. If he made his mind up, there would have been actual reports by the actual reputable journos. Reputable journos, being Romero, Ornstein, Whitwell, Mitten, saying either Barca have decided to keep him, or United have decided to move on. No grey area. I guarantee you this would happen.

If he decides to ultimately leave, then I would bet he is open to it, purely because him and Ten Hag actually know each other and have worked with each other, and it's a simple conversation to have that requires nothing but a tiny bit of human decency. So it's crazy to think otherwise here. Not that it's a priority over just continuing in how he was at Barca, but as a plan b option.

What's causing the delay? Reportedly the deferred wages. Its 17m in wages. That's a Huge amount of money for a football club, let alone a player. No club is going to pay that for another club to just avoid an issue, and no player is going to forgo that. If he simply restructured his contract and didn't simply defer the wages, then he contractually isn't owed any money and Barca are just trying to cut him before they have to actually pay up. In which case, it gets complicated, and goes into "what is a happy medium where all parties are happy with this". Its a complicated situation. Maybe the situation is that the wages we're offering are not a whole lot different to what Barcelona want him to change his contract to. But he doesn't want to change his contract. But they'll treat him like shit if he doesn't. But but but but. There are a ton of variables going on, none of us truly know what is the case, the only things we know is that there are literally only 3-4 people worth listening to on the issue and nobody else, and those have been relatively steady and consistent in saying there are complications but that we are still interested.

He doesnt want to play for us and he has clearly strung his old manager along as a bargaining ploy. Just fecking move on.

 

[Volumiza]

But the reality is all credible sources reported that FDJ's priority is still to stay at Barca.

But he literally has NO choice but to say that.

In FDJ’s position, anyone would be saying the same.

 

[Telsim]

People overestimate the value of assurances given. (and we don't even know if an assurance was actually given) It's naive. You know De Jong could have just taken Ten Hag for a ride, right? To what end I do not know, but people have been known to lie before. We know absolutely nothing about their relationship. Could be he hates him for whatever reason. Or something else entirely.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't know the full ins and outs but wasn't Messi's wage issue way higher than €17m and weren't they in a much worse position financially then?

He was ready to accept 28m for the season, FDJ is getting similar this year.

So no.

One year ago La Liga held Barca to ransom over a similar amount to what Frenkie will be owed this coming season, so your mate has got the blinkers on to think they wouldn’t/can’t happen. It can, and it did.

 

[bosnian_red]

I envy your faith and enthusiasm fingers crossed you are correct

No idea if he'll come, we aren't his number 1 priority which is simply staying and earning what his contract says he's due, but who knows how it'll play out. As a player target for midfield, he is the dream target IMO. But we'll see if it happens. For the dream target (like Sancho was for the wings), you simply do what you can and wait however long you need to wait until you get him. We aren't talking about dropping down the priority list and then weighing up all the other factors, simply because it's a very tough player to find with qualities that are hard to replicate but the potential to be the best in the world at what he does.

 

[OrcaFat]

Even with a reliable outlet like the Athletic reporting it, some people will still bury their head in the sand until the club either brief that it's over or the window closes with nothing happening.

I used to think think he would join, but it's been clear for a while now that isn't going to be the case

It really hasn’t.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

But he literally has NO choice but to say that.

In FDJ’s position, anyone would be saying the same.

He can use the old trick "leak" to the press to relay the true message if he is thinking of leaving and joining us. But all signs showing the opposite is true.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

fecking move on from this uppity bastard he thinks he is too good for us.

How do you know that? He's barely said a word on anything related to this situation.

 

[OrcaFat]

As things currently are, Man Utd are a step down from Barcelona. Look at the team Barcelona are going to field next year (probably!). They will be competing for the CL title and the La Liga title. Man Utd will be competing for a Champions League spot. That's the truth of it. It hurts, but let's be realistic.

That’s true. He would rather have stayed. Shit happens.

 

[Shakesy]

People overestimate the value of assurances given. It's naive. You know De Jong could have just taken Ten Hag for a spin, right? To what end I do not know, but people have been known to lie before. We know absolutely nothing about their relationship. Could be he hates him for whatever reason. Or something else entirely.

He might simply have said that he isn't outright opposed to it, or that there is a chance, or that he'd think about it. These are not assurances, but he definitely didn't reject EtH's advances. The question is, why do we continue to hang around, waiting? The answer has to be that EtH thinks there is a chance that we could sign him. I'm sure he would find an alternative before the window closes if FdJ turns us down.

 

[sewey89]

He doesnt want to play for us and he has clearly strung his old manager along as a bargaining ploy. Just fecking move on.

Bargaining for what exactly?

 

[Superden]

An FDJ haiku
Its not happening
Its not is it

 

[FatTails]

I’m ok with all outcomes except him leaving Barca but going to another club, not United. That would hurt. If he just wants to stay at Barca, it is what it is.

 

[MF1138]

If de Jong was completely against joining United, this would have been killed two months ago. A statement from himself or his Agent saying unequivocally that he has zero interest in going to United.

If he is doing everything in his power to stay at Barcelona, having united chasing him all summer does him no good at all, it's only giving them leverage.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

People overestimate the value of assurances given. (and we don't even know if an assurance was actually given) It's naive. You know De Jong could have just taken Ten Hag for a ride, right? To what end I do not know, but people have been known to lie before. We know absolutely nothing about their relationship. Could be he hates him for whatever reason. Or something else entirely.

Look at the hate.

Most people aren’t knobheads, however you wanna spin it. Most people would give their ex manager a call and say “I’m no longer interested, but thanks”.

Now Frenkie might be a lying feckwit for sure, or EtH might be a stalking weirdo. But likely they aren’t, likely the are like 99% of people.