Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?


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We won't officially announce it like some think, for obvious reasons. Either we'll just hear nothing and the window will close or we'll spend the money on another player.

We absolutely love briefing the press man.

We’d 100% hear the Simon Stone’s of the World report that United have moved on.

It was just one week ago right that ETH told the World, “we are ready when that player is made available”. What has changed? Nada.
 
Dembele, Raphina, Lewandowski, Frenkie, Pedri, Busquets, Kessie, Araujo will definitely start for us. How many of our players start for them? Sancho?

Dembele has not impressed in 3 years, Raphina would be rotational here, Lewa is just Ronaldo, Busquets has been washed up for a couple of years now and wouldn't make the bench, Kessie and Araujo would get minutes but not start most games.

Of our players? Shaw, Varane, Martinez, Bruno and Sancho would be likely starters and you would probably see significant minutes given to Dalot, Fred, Rashford, Martial and Eriksen off the top of my head.

The overrating of Barca by so many here along with the constant negativity about United makes me think some of you love to be miserable.
 
If this would be real, his agent would have shared that information with the board and ETH. Not with a random sports reporter. This all looks like FDJ is salty and wants his owned wages, bonus, etc, which is fair and square.


How do we know he hasn't? again it's taking us months to get nailed on signings do you think we have the capability of switching it up this late in the window? I have my doubts.

We generally thought we had a chance a few weeks ago and are too deep in this deal to come out and say it's over, the PR would be new levels of bad for this new 'transfer team'

It's been said by both the Spanish and English media now for weeks that he has no interest, we're past the point in which he's trying to get a payout to leave, he's playing games for Barcelona in the USA that's not a player anywhere near the exit door.
 
What's the point putting Chelsea rumours in title if you admit the source is shit?
The whole Chelsea link is to do with Boehly having dinner with Barcelona. It’s a total non story. Unless we are replacing anyone, we don’t need a midfielder. On top of that, this summer in particular, Tuchel is helping to sign players. He wants defenders and forwards.
 
Really simple, if he needs an entire system of ten other players to get something out of him, he's not every that great a player.
No, that’s never how it works. Systems optimise players, and in highly specialised roles like De Jong has, conditions have to be right from the outset or you’re losing half the player from the outset.

With the mindset you have, someone like Mathias Sammer would never have become a great as his role had to be facilitated by others playing their part.
 
Really simple, if he needs an entire system of ten other players to get something out of him, he's not every that great a player.
Not really true. More so now a days then before, but even before, every player had to be used correctly, to their strengths, to get the best out of them. Clubs make mistakes often in thinking one player can adapt to their style seemlessly, as every system is different. That's why great players flop in certain systems all the time (Veron?). Just how it is. Sancho is a world beater in the right system. He's a random ineffective player in a different system. Its probably the hardest task in world football to clearly identify what players you need to suit your system and improve your system. Luckily for us... Ten Hag has had Frenkie de Jong excel on the European stage in his system, so it's a low risk move.
 
We absolutely love briefing the press man.

We’d 100% hear the Simon Stone’s of the World report that United have moved on.

It was just one week ago right that ETH told the World, “we are ready when that player is made available”. What has changed? Nada.
Well people just saw that it was from the Athletic and that was it. Meltdown ensued. Still nothing solid said, all from another source, just this one seems to think ten Hag and de jongs relationship wasn't anything special. Not sure how anyone would know what their relationship is like to be honest but hey
 
FYlig3SWQAETD2J


Note how the author's opinion that "De Jong is likely to share Cristiano Ronaldo's view on playing in the Europa League this season" has turned into " Frenkie does not want to play in the Europa League" being reported all over now.

Notice how there’s been plenty of turbulence at Old Trafford, but not at the fecking shipwreck in Barcelona :lol:
 
Is this new information or newsworthy in any way? "Views from the Barca dressing room is that United is a step down." (note that this is not attributed to FDJ)
Is this new information or newsworthy in any way? "De Jong is likely to share Ronaldo's view on playing in the Europa League." (clearly just speculation)

I am going to say no, neither of these are newsworthy in any way.


So your left with this being the only thing you could argue as being new, relevant information: "The Atlhetic has been told he did not have a particularly special relationship with ETH."
Sorry, but I am a bit skeptical that after 2+ months of this saga, some even reporting that ETH and FDJ are in talks everyday, that this guy has uncovered that FDJ and ETH don't have "a particularly special relationship", whatever that means. Such a vague quote without even a hint of who would have told the Athletic this. Note that in 2 months no one from Ajax or anyone close to FDJ or ETH has come out saying they don't have a close relationship - just this guy today 2+ months into this saga.

With all the absolute trash propaganda reporting coming out of Spain, I cannot believe people are taking this as newsworthy at all.
Nail on head here mate. Totally agree. A totally nonsensical article based on speculation and opinion.
 
Ahhhh, the classic "gloom and doom" wave has hit the topic again i see.

Fear not my fellow redcafenians, the dutch naval ship carrying captain De Jong is steadily navigating to the safe port of Manchester.

We shall see the flags on the horizon soon enough!
 
  1. No, he doesn't want to leave Barcelona. Beckham didn't want to leave United, Sanchez didn't want to leave Barca, Fabregas didn't want to leave Barca, Di Maria didn't want to leave Madrid, etc. It happens. At the end of the day, if they are no longer key, they will leave to be key players elsewhere.
  2. Him not wanting to leave Barca doesn't mean that he doesn't want to join United. Very big distinction. If he has to leave Barca, then all signs (i.e, all actual reputable people on this issue) point to him in fact being open to joining United and Ten Hag.
  3. The only relevant people to listen to on this are Whitwell/Mitten/Ornstein for the United slant on things, and then Romero for the Barcelona slant on things. Nobody else knows anything new, they're all extrapolating or rephrasing in their own way or speculating. Fabrizio might get some agent info on the case, but that's it. No reporter would release some information as just drip fed and hidden in a random article, it would be a headline of "REPORT - FRENKIE REJECTS UNITED" and all the others repeating that. So let's stop reading too much into how one random side reporter on the case phrases the issue on the day to get clicks, as that's all it is.
But really would you not prefer to find a player who actively wants to join Utd not one who begrudgingly joins us because he is given no options, ok sure if FDJ joins he may well knuckle down and be a fighter, great but he may alternatively be out of sorts at least to begin with or more importantly if things don't get turned around in the space of a season.... I mean ok he accepts coming here (hypothetically) but wants CL football, what happens if we do not finish top 4 next season?
 


Literally 30 mins ago :lol: Also pretty much every report for the last month and a half has emphasised that he doesn't want to leave Barcelona, but don't let that bother you. Continue to dream by all means


Forgot he wrote for the Athletic. My bad.
 
Its on
He says he doesnt want to leave
Barca dont want to pay him
United are Comfortable
Its off
Tweets
Its on
He says he doesnt want to leave
Barca dont want to pay him
United are Comfortable
Its off
Tweets
Its on
He says he doesnt want to leave
Barca dont want to pay him
United are Comfortable
Its off
Tweets......

What part of this are we at ....or back at?

He says he doesnt want to leave....................
 
:lol: I can't believe posters actually believe United would ever confirm that De Jong doesn't want to sign.

There's unreal delusion on show in this thread. The writing has been on the wall for a long time.

Now it's time to start asking what the plan actually is because the weakest and possibly most important part of the team is going to be neglected once again. I wouldn't have minded if we have some of our youngsters a shot but it looks like they're all being loaned out.

No, but we'd brief that we'd ended interest or that we'd walked away.
 
And that's from the player himself is it? Has he explicitly told that reporter he doesn't want to come?

He hunted that particular guy out and said hey, I just needed to find you to tell you that I don't want to go to United and play EL. If this was genuine news, it would be picked up by everyone now as its pretty big news to be fair.
Is that a quote in your opinion?

Misread the quote part. Is it normal to believe that a player is always interested in joining a club unless he emphatically states in public that he doesn't want to join the club? There have been numerous reputed journalists who have said he doesn't want to join Utd. Pretty much every paper in Spain has said he doesn't want to join Utd but people decide to disregard them because they are from Spain. Now The Athletic, one of the most reliable sources for transfer news, are also reporting that he doesn't want to join Utd. If it was another club in the exact same situation trying to sign FDJ I doubt anyone here would think this is still going to happen.
 
But really would you not prefer to find a player who actively wants to join Utd not one who begrudgingly joins us because he is given no options.

We still have no idea of his state of mind.

Just because his preference would have been to get treated well and stay at Barca, doesn’t mean he would “begrudgingly” join because of no other options.
 
Again, my only shinning hope here is that it would be beyond embarrassing to work this hard towards a player that so strongly does not want to play for you...it happens in football...but to this level it would be almost unprecedented.

I've always felt FDJ either cares very deeply about ETH or this is just Barca playing us to get him to lower his wages. Because no other club has been close to being linked. It would make sense if Barca actually really wanted to keep him, to basically publicly link him to a club they know he wouldn't want to join and push the issue. If they truly wanted to sell him...then I'm not sure why other clubs wouldn't be in on a 25 year old star MF. They don't grow on trees.

The flip side...and only potential positive...is FDJ will only leave to play for ETH at this point. Thats basically all we have.

The "caring about Champions League" crap is total BS. Ronaldo cares about CL because he wants to pad his CL goals. A 25 yearly MF isn't taking a 40% pay cut so for one season he gets to play CL on a team that has almost no chance of going far in it...total BS.
 
We absolutely love briefing the press man.

We’d 100% hear the Simon Stone’s of the World report that United have moved on.

It was just one week ago right that ETH told the World, “we are ready when that player is made available”. What has changed? Nada.
That we haven't given up is not exactly an endorsement of anything given our track record over these protracted sagas.
 
If i'm being completely honest, I'm about 50/50 as to whether I think this deal will actually happen. But the negative doomers push me to 100% confident that it will, purely because I just want to sit all smug when it has.

I swear, if I see one doomer enjoying him, i'll hit the fecking roof. He's OURS!
 
Dembele and Raphinha don't get in over Sancho and if Rashford is back to pre last season form, don't get in over him. IMO. Araujo is debatable too, though I don't watch enough. Our midfield is admittedly shite, though Bruno would start for them as their most advanced midfielder I've got little doubt there. And as shite as our fullbacks are, they are still better than Barca's non existent current fullbacks for me.

Most importantly though, you get the coach. Xavi is a nobody as a coach and nothing to suggest he is anything special. Ten Hag has plenty backing up that he is in fact a special coach.
Completely forgot about Bruno, he will probably claim a spot. I think our fullbacks are equally as shite as theirs, don't rate Dalot at all and we don't know what version or Shaw we're getting (same with most of our players)
You're about Xavi having no experience but if we see things objectively they have a squad just missing a few pieces. We are almost done with the window and we're still missing our most urgent pieces. We desperately need a right back, we're one injury away from having to play Amad(Too raw) or Elanga(Nothing special) .
Malacia, Eriksen, and Martinez are a great first step but we're just getting started on that rebuild. Frenkie might be looking at Barcelona and thinking their approach is winning right now and that might be what he wants. Can't blame anyone if he doesn't want to come, the club has done everything they can to bring him and if reports are right Eth was also pushing. We should be looking at options because we only have 3 midfielders at the moment unless we plan to use the kids.
 
It isn't this first time this has happened though. We've chased Griezmann, Dybala, Sancho etc. for large parts of a transfer window in the recent past, only for it to end up stalling and not getting anywhere. This isn't some isolated incident. Not getting Frenkie is annoying but what will be worse is if we've wasted all this time only for us to have no backup options.

For the record, I'm of the opinion that he has very little interest in joining us but I still wouldn't be surprised if it does end up happening. Only because Barca are desperate for him to go and we will be desperate to make it happen as it will look terrible from a PR perspective if we spent months chasing a player who we couldn't convince to join.

This is all true and, for me, more concerning than if we don't end up with the player. As it suggests that, despite the bluster and briefing, nothing much has changed about how United do business. You can go all the way back to David Moyes trying to sign Fabregas for examples of how United, post-Fergie, have been led up the garden path.

Supposedly, Woodward's exit and 'the new structure' was all supposed to change that. However, there's not much evidence of that so far. Van der Sar's continued willingness to do business with us, picking up Eriksen on a free and buying a young left back from Holland are not signs that we're savvier in the market.

As I've said before I don't blame United for trying to get De Jong. If there's a player out there who is better for you than what you got, you can see the logic in keeping it going. However, the bigger picture doesn't point to any real change in practice at the club.

This has been my problem with it from the start, we clearly don't and ETH essentially said as much. FDJ can't be shoved out the door if he decides to just take the massive amount of money he's owed regardless of how much Barca want to sell him because he has a legal contract for another 4 years. FDJ is a brilliant player but if he wasn't interested in coming, which he never seemed to be and certainly by now it should be very obvious he has no interest in joining, we should have other options. ETH doesn't seem to want to use our scout network and also doesn't appear to know any other players himself that can play FDJ's role. Leaves us screwed basically.

We can't know this for sure. However, I am slightly concerned that the club is not offering Ten Hag alternatives to De Jong. When he was appointed all the coverage from the Manchester press pack was that, part of his attraction was, Ten Hag's a head coach not a manager. So he would fit in with the new structure. So why aren't the club able to identify players of similar profile to De Jong and present those to Ten Hag as alternatives? Now, in fairness to the club, maybe they have and we just don't know cos its not in the media? However, when you see the names of Milinkovic-Savic and Tielemans dropping in the media it makes you wonder what's going on. Those players, good as they are, are not deep laying playmakers like De Jong. So, either the media doesn't know anything, or the person briefing that they're alternative targets doesn't know anything. If Ten Hag has talked to the club and said: 'What are the alternatives to De Jong?' And the response was genuinely: 'Tielemans'. You can completely understand him saying: 'That is not a midfielder who can do the things I want De Jong to do.' What is really surprising is the fact the club offered him the job months ago. Yet, despite everyone knowing how his Ajax teams played, despite being witness to his training drills, the club seemingly hasn't been able to compile a list of connecting midfielders who could be an alternative to De Jong. Its very odd.

:lol: I can't believe posters actually believe United would ever confirm that De Jong doesn't want to sign.

There's unreal delusion on show in this thread. The writing has been on the wall for a long time.

Now it's time to start asking what the plan actually is because the weakest and possibly most important part of the team is going to be neglected once again. I wouldn't have minded if we have some of our youngsters a shot but it looks like they're all being loaned out.

I agree with you. Its not looking pretty.
 
Go back and read page 1031 from the start. Make sure you read the first quoted post too.
In what will always be remembered as the day it all came crumbling down for Pretzel, it took just 19 minutes to go from apology to calamity.

We will all remember him fondly, for he selflessly sacrificed himself to lighten up our day. Thank you Pretzel. May your breakdown be temporary.
 
We're used to rubbish from the Spanish media but I don't quite get the angle of all this rubbishing of United and stream of conflicting info. Doesn't seem to help anyone. Yes Frenkie's stance will be to hold firm for his money but the guff is coming from Barca mouthpieces, if anything they should be painting him to leave or something which people have speculated would happen. I'm aware of Barca's financials, United, ETH and the logic of surely our manager would've got the word and all jokes in between but this Spanish nonsense has gone to an extra level banality unless we are indeed chasing a lost cause which doesn't make sense. Frenkie would have us blocked and restraining order by now.
 
But really would you not prefer to find a player who actively wants to join Utd not one who begrudgingly joins us because he is given no options, ok sure if FDJ joins he may well knuckle down and be a fighter, great but he may alternatively be out of sorts at least to begin with or more importantly if things don't get turned around in the space of a season.... I mean ok he accepts coming here (hypothetically) but wants CL football, what happens if we do not finish top 4 next season?
Are we choosing between De Jong that wants to join United and De Jong that doesn’t? Or is it a hypothetical choice between a (significantly) lesser talented player and De Jong?
 
  1. No, he doesn't want to leave Barcelona. Beckham didn't want to leave United, Sanchez didn't want to leave Barca, Fabregas didn't want to leave Barca, Di Maria didn't want to leave Madrid, etc. It happens. At the end of the day, if they are no longer key, they will leave to be key players elsewhere.
  2. Him not wanting to leave Barca doesn't mean that he doesn't want to join United. Very big distinction. If he has to leave Barca, then all signs (i.e, all actual reputable people on this issue) point to him in fact being open to joining United and Ten Hag.
  3. The only relevant people to listen to on this are Whitwell/Mitten/Ornstein for the United slant on things, and then Romero for the Barcelona slant on things. Nobody else knows anything new, they're all extrapolating or rephrasing in their own way or speculating. Fabrizio might get some agent info on the case, but that's it. No reporter would release some information as just drip fed and hidden in a random article, it would be a headline of "REPORT - FRENKIE REJECTS UNITED" and all the others repeating that. So let's stop reading too much into how one random side reporter on the case phrases the issue on the day to get clicks, as that's all it is.

Ornstein's paper just said he doesn't want to join. The fees been agreed for ages now as has been reported by Romero numerous times. If he really wanted to join he'd have agreed a deal by now. What's causing the delay? People will say his deferred wages, and what is delaying the transfer going to solve in this regard? He's suddenly going to get all his deferred wages in 1 month when they haven't paid it already?
 
Is this new information or newsworthy in any way? "Views from the Barca dressing room is that United is a step down." (note that this is not attributed to FDJ)
Is this new information or newsworthy in any way? "De Jong is likely to share Ronaldo's view on playing in the Europa League." (clearly just speculation)

I am going to say no, neither of these are newsworthy in any way.


So your left with this being the only thing you could argue as being new, relevant information: "The Atlhetic has been told he did not have a particularly special relationship with ETH."
Sorry, but I am a bit skeptical that after 2+ months of this saga, some even reporting that ETH and FDJ are in talks everyday, that this guy has uncovered that FDJ and ETH don't have "a particularly special relationship", whatever that means. Such a vague quote without even a hint of who would have told the Athletic this. Note that in 2 months no one from Ajax or anyone close to FDJ or ETH has come out saying they don't have a close relationship - just this guy today 2+ months into this saga.

With all the absolute trash propaganda reporting coming out of Spain, I cannot believe people are taking this as newsworthy at all.
One tweet says that even if United sorted de Jongs contract issues he'd still likely not come, is that based on the views from the Barcelona dressing room? Or does the article specifically say he doesn't want to come. I'm not paying to view
 
If Raiola made 27m from Pogba, you can be sure he made more on Haaland, hence why the Dortmund deal with a low release was set up that way.
Haaland and his Dad brought in Raiola to ensure they also got similar pieces of that pie.
Agent fee, Dad fee and signing fee will have been through the roof.
Yeah but these sort of fees are never reported in the transfer sums, not just not for City.
If you want to talk about true costs of players, you need to move away from transfer fees anyway and towards yearly cost. Else you end up with moronic arguments like "Ben White was more expensive than Varane", you might remember that one.
 
But really would you not prefer to find a player who actively wants to join Utd not one who begrudgingly joins us because he is given no options, ok sure if FDJ joins he may well knuckle down and be a fighter, great but he may alternatively be out of sorts at least to begin with or more importantly if things don't get turned around in the space of a season.... I mean ok he accepts coming here (hypothetically) but wants CL football, what happens if we do not finish top 4 next season?
I want quality players that fit the system the best. Sure, at some level of player comparison, you get into "who wants it more", but for the most part, that's irrelevant. Frenkie de Jong is a dream midfield signing for us, I'd rather sign him and nobody else than sign a group of other midfielders for half of the price total. Our potential is far higher with Frenkie than without. If he comes, you know Ten Hag will use him properly too. So that's all there is to it. Whatever he wants or doesn't want doesn't matter if he comes. A player will only down tools if they fall out with the manager pretty much. If they trust the manager and have a good relationship, then they'll give their all even if they want to eventually leave (like Ronaldo with Sir Alex). So that's not a worry.
 
Why would we go through all the effort of agreeing a fee and bonuses with a club if the player didn’t want to come. Obviously Ten Hag knows if Frenkie wants to come or not and if he didn’t the club wouldn’t have gone through the efforts of travelling to Barcelona and agreeing a fee and no doubt the complexities of all the bonuses that went along with it.

STAY STRONG MUPPETS.
 
and what is delaying the transfer going to solve in this regard? He's suddenly going to get all his deferred wages in 1 month when they haven't paid it already?

Are you kidding me? Of course what you do in that situation is say that you’re not prepared to do anything until you have a guarantee that those deferred wages will be paid. Barcelona are desperate to have a sell him or to make him reduce his wage, I close it becomes deadline date the more deaths but they will become. So yes a month would make a difference.

How does agreeing to the transfer now help him to get that money?
 
Just out of curiosity, do you ever walk into the bookies and shout at the punters to tell them they ain’t gonna win and then pop next door to the restaurant and tell everyone they will get fat eating that?

Just find it a bit boring at this stage. After 2 months would you not prefer to talk about a different potential transfer? After 1043 pages I'm not sure what else you could possibly have to talk about. I don't think the deal will happen, I think we're wasting time, I'm not happy we seemingly have no alternatives lined up. Are we only allowed to post in these threads if we believe a transfer is going to happen or should happen? A lot of people on here seem to take anything that isn't remarkably positive as a personal insult when it's simply an opinion.
 
My Barca supporting extended family member is pretty adamant at this stage that he'll stay because he has zero intention of joining Utd, take a 40% or so pay cut, Barca will stop flirting with B. Silva, and they'll work out a way to sign all the new players. Also thinks it's hilarious that the British press keep posting that a club of Barca's stature can actually be held to ransom over €17m.
 
Yeah but these sort of fees are never reported in the transfer sums, not just not for City.
If you want to talk about true costs of players, you need to move away from transfer fees anyway and towards yearly cost. Else you end up with moronic arguments like "Ben White was more expensive than Varane", you might remember that one.

The Pogba agents fee was reported though, and Hazard’s because we do talk about fees when they are way beyond the norm, which this clearly was.
 
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