Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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ICB said:
Do you not think De Jong could have just been stringing ETH along or at least not being clear enough either way to ensure the interest doesn’t wane from United?

it’s a scummy thing to do, but it’s the smart thing business wise. His situation at Barcelona is extremely sensitive and he would need the protection of knowing there was a second option should it go tits up there (which it very likely will).

Completely shutting off the United avenue leaves him in the situation of Barca or bust, with there being no escape route if Barca don’t budge and thus making him public enemy #1 at Barca. Their disgraceful fans would not make life easy for him.
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Nah. United being interested, agreeing a fee and staying firm in their interest only makes his situation at Barca all the more precarious.
 
bosnian_red said:
Oh does Ornstein own the athletic? Is his name anywhere on the piece? Or is a random other guy who works for the Athletic? Stop saying stuff that is blatantly not true as an attempt to make it sound more reliable to suit your complaints! This Dermot guy is a random reporter who didn't even write a report. He put out an article and put a throw away comment in, essentially saying "noise is suggesting he doesn't fancy the Europa League". Its incredibly vague and not sourced at all, and not a report at all.

Literally none of us know what is going on, and the journos likely don't know the full story either. As I said, his #1 choice is to stay at Barca on his current contract and being a starter in midfield. If that's no longer the case, De Jong has some things to think about. If he made his mind up, there would have been actual reports by the actual reputable journos. Reputable journos, being Romero, Ornstein, Whitwell, Mitten, saying either Barca have decided to keep him, or United have decided to move on. No grey area. I guarantee you this would happen.

If he decides to ultimately leave, then I would bet he is open to it, purely because him and Ten Hag actually know each other and have worked with each other, and it's a simple conversation to have that requires nothing but a tiny bit of human decency. So it's crazy to think otherwise here. Not that it's a priority over just continuing in how he was at Barca, but as a plan b option.

What's causing the delay? Reportedly the deferred wages. Its 17m in wages. That's a Huge amount of money for a football club, let alone a player. No club is going to pay that for another club to just avoid an issue, and no player is going to forgo that. If he simply restructured his contract and didn't simply defer the wages, then he contractually isn't owed any money and Barca are just trying to cut him before they have to actually pay up. In which case, it gets complicated, and goes into "what is a happy medium where all parties are happy with this". Its a complicated situation. Maybe the situation is that the wages we're offering are not a whole lot different to what Barcelona want him to change his contract to. But he doesn't want to change his contract. But they'll treat him like shit if he doesn't. But but but but. There are a ton of variables going on, none of us truly know what is the case, the only things we know is that there are literally only 3-4 people worth listening to on the issue and nobody else, and those have been relatively steady and consistent in saying there are complications but that we are still interested.
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You all seem to be getting very angry so I'll just leave you be
 
Ramshock said:
He doesnt want to play for us and he has clearly strung his old manager along as a bargaining ploy. Just fecking move on.
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Its not even August yet. There is 5-6 weeks left in the window. If they feel like it's worth waiting for, then feck it why not? Would much rather wait and get him on deadline day than not at all and just get option 2 (whoever it is, isn't fit to lace De Jongs boots).
 
Ramshock said:
He doesnt want to play for us and he has clearly strung his old manager along as a bargaining ploy. Just fecking move on.
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Bargaining ploy for what?

If he wants to stay put and refuses to take a pay cut what in the flying feck does stringing ETH along accomplish for him exactly? It applies no pressure to Barca, quite the opposite in fact as they think they can push him out and inevitably ETH will wind up thinking he is a cnut and that is the kind of karma that could come back to haunt him later in his career.
 
Why would a player actively shut down a potential suitor and a potential move by telling them he is definitively not interested? Makes no sense, even if he's indeed not interested in moving.
Much less his agent, who is in reality the one doing the communication. It's not like Frenkie is on the phone with other club's managers all the time, he is doing his job as a player. The agent will always keep options open and sound out offers, it's not his job to care about Man United's planning.

So everyone saying "if he was not interested, he would have told ETH", you are wrong.

I think we heard enough about Frenkie not wanting the Utd move that you as fans should mentally prepare for the move not to happen. You as the club can still keep trying of course, nothing wrong with trying.
 
Biggest tell in this whole saga is that neither he nor his agent or hell even a family member has breathed a single word on the matter.

He's either staying on full pay or coming to United. There's no other option.
 
Hansi Fick said:
. The existence of the release clause put Haaland and Raiola in the situation to negotiate massive wages.
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And absolutely enormous agent, dad and signing on fees.
Something we know City have no issues sorting, because as long as the fee seems low, that’s all that matters.
Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc were never even in the race, because the amounts would have been colossal, much higher than a Varane to United deal for example.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Why would a player actively shut down a potential suitor and a potential move by telling them he is definitively not interested? Makes no sense, even if he's indeed not interested in moving.
Much less his agent, who is in reality the one doing the communication. It's not like Frenkie is on the phone with other club's managers all the time, he is doing his job as a player. The agent will always keep options open and sound out offers, it's not his job to care about Man United's planning.

So everyone saying "if he was not interested, he would have told ETH", you are wrong.

I think we heard enough about Frenkie not wanting the Utd move that you as fans should mentally prepare for the move not to happen. You as the club can still keep trying of course, nothing wrong with trying.
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Agree with this
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
And absolutely enormous agent, dad and signing on fees.
Something we know City have no issues sorting, because as long as the fee seems low, that’s all that matters.
Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc were never even in the race, because the amounts would have been colossal, much higher than a Varane to United deal for example.
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You don't know how enormous the fees was, which is what I'm trying to tell you. You're just blindly speculating.
What is enormous is the wages, and THAT is why Bayern, for example, weren't able to sign him.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I don't know the full ins and outs but wasn't Messi's wage issue way higher than €17m and weren't they in a much worse position financially then?
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Obviously not identical situations but where the comparison is valid is that last year they could not fit Messi inside their salary structure alongside their new signings. They tried all summer to work something out cutting and deferring salaries to accommodate Messi's wedge but in the end they could not do it and if they had kept him they would not have been able to register him in La Liga. This summer, if FDJ stays and will not take a pay cut it seems that ultimately they are facing not being able to register Lewa, Raphina and possibly Kounde for La Liga. They might yet pull more levers for a short term fix but far and away the healthiest and sanest approach is to get Frenkie sold if he won't take a huge pay cut and that is what they are trying to do.
 
TheLord said:
Walking into another club involves a lot of parties and a lot of paperwork. He could definitely file a case in court for untimely payment and win the case in his favour. But signing for another club simply for some deferred payment is out of question in modern times. The entire court proceedings may take several months, and he'd probably end up ruining his professional career.
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Good point, thanks. Basically Barca hold all the cards then.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Why would a player actively shut down a potential suitor and a potential move by telling them he is definitively not interested? Makes no sense, even if he's indeed not interested in moving.
Much less his agent, who is in reality the one doing the communication. It's not like Frenkie is on the phone with other club's managers all the time, he is doing his job as a player. The agent will always keep options open and sound out offers, it's not his job to care about Man United's planning.

I think we heard enough about Frenkie not wanting the Utd move that you as fans should mentally prepare for the move not to happen. You as the club can still keep trying of course, nothing wrong with trying.
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Saying he is not open to move to United who is the only real option makes Barcelona position much weaker. They have a contract which they are trying to undermine. Playing FDJ as substitute CB and then buying Kounde is a clear message from Barca to move out. If FDJ shows that he isnt going to take the option of leaving then Barcelona has no other option but come on negotiation table for the deferred payment of his wages and future incentives.

Its a simple as it can get. FDJ and his agents want to do this on their term. Saying they want to go to United is going to weaken their position. People need to chill on these leaks.
 
Telsim said:
People overestimate the value of assurances given. (and we don't even know if an assurance was actually given) It's naive. You know De Jong could have just taken Ten Hag for a ride, right? To what end I do not know, but people have been known to lie before. We know absolutely nothing about their relationship. Could be he hates him for whatever reason. Or something else entirely.
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Why would FDJ do this? When Sergio Ramos faked interest in moving to United, it was to secure a larger contract with Barca. What possible motivation would FDJ have to string United along if he has no intention of leaving Barca? If anything, it hurts his negotiation position to do this - if he truly is desperate to stay.
 
Hansi Fick said:
You don't know how enormous the fees was, which is what I'm trying to tell you.
What is enormous is the wages, and THAT is why Bayern, for example, weren't able to sign him.
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I know they were enormous because I know how enormous Pogba’s was on a deal he did 10 years ago.
so whilst I don’t know how enormous exactly, we all know it was off the charts stuff.
 
Hansi Fick said:
Why would a player actively shut down a potential suitor and a potential move by telling them he is definitively not interested? Makes no sense, even if he's indeed not interested in moving.
Much less his agent, who is in reality the one doing the communication. It's not like Frankie is on the phone with other club's managers all the time. The agent will always keep options open, it's not his job to care about Man United's planning.

I think we heard enough about Frenkie not wanting the Utd move that you as fans should mentally prepare for the move not to happen. You as the club can still keep trying of course, nothing wrong with trying.
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Bold is correct.

Given all the issues with this transfer, it should be no particular surprise if it doesn't go through.

But with him obviously being our prime target for this summer and someone we definitively want ahead of any other potential options in that position, it's absolutely appropriate for the club to continue with the pursuit until it either comes to a resolution or we reach the point where we need to move on to secure any second choice-option we have lined up (if there is one).
 
Brownie85 said:
One tweet says that even if United sorted de Jongs contract issues he'd still likely not come, is that based on the views from the Barcelona dressing room? Or does the article specifically say he doesn't want to come. I'm not paying to view
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It's the former. The sources are people who are close to different Barcelona players, both those who are well established and those who are being pushed out. They're basically similar to the sources that are used by the reliable Spanish journalists.
 
sullydnl said:
Bold is correct.

Given all the issues with this transfer, it should be no particular surprise if it doesn't go through.

But with him obviously being our prime target for this summer and someone we definitively want ahead of any other potential options in that position, it's absolutely appropriate for the club to continue with the pursuit until it either comes to a resolution or we reach the point where we need to move on to secure any second choice-option we have lined up (if there is one).
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Exactly. Which is what's happening.
 
bosnian_red said:
Its not even August yet. There is 5-6 weeks left in the window. If they feel like it's worth waiting for, then feck it why not? Would much rather wait and get him on deadline day than not at all and just get option 2 (whoever it is, isn't fit to lace De Jongs boots).
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The guy better be fecking good and transform us if he does end up joining.

Not this season. As per usual, we have fannied around all Summer not quite having key components available.

I suppose it's still better to have a late execution of something consistent with a plan than randomly signing an ageing GOAT who wasn't in the cards a week before.

But yeah, if he is a key piece in the puzzle for the next five years or so, fine, take it on thr chin and get on with it as we aren't competing for anything other than Top 4 this season anyway.

He doesn't only have to live up to that but also make up for the fact if he joins us we all miss out on the hysterical bedlam down in Catalunya.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
feck me how daft are you being here? Ferguson hasn’t even been a manager for ten years and he called up Ronaldo to convince him, yet you’re here trying to convince us that Ten Hag and de Jong haven’t spoken a few times regarding this. :lol:
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If Frenkie was on the phone with ETH, he'd have been polite and told him how flattered he is and how he can indeed imagine moving. And see how it goes with Barca and let his agent sort out the rest. Doesn't mean shit.
 
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