Frenkie de Jong| Off to Barca - Confirmed

[Oly Francis]

No, PSG have finalized a new contract with him. It should be announced tomorrow.

Really? I'd be curious to know your source, i might have missed something (it rarely happens about PSG but it happens).

 

[Sayros]

Really? I'd be curious to know your source, i might have missed something (it rarely happens about PSG but it happens).

We'll see how reliable it is tomorrow. He will apparently be on Thiago Silva's scale, earning four times what he used to.

 

[Elite Intelligence]

He was a sub in the first game and improved the Dutch greatly when he came on.

France where shite in the second game, but honestly, France havent impressed me for years despite them winning the world cup. How a team with that much quality can consistently play such terrible football is quite an achievement.

You're obviously being slightly biased, saying a team that's made it to Euros final and just won the WC have consistently had bad performances.

Netherlands are on their way back though, no need to discredit France

 

[Oly Francis]

We'll see how reliable it is tomorrow. He will apparently be on Thiago Silva's scale, earning four times what he used to.

Not really apparently ^^

 

[KirkDuyt]

You're obviously being slightly biased, saying a team that's made it to Euros final and just won the WC have consistently had bad performances.

Netherlands are on their way back though, no need to discredit France

Not bad, just lacklustre football. Winning the world cup is obviously a fantastic achievement. You can hardly say they were playing samba.

 

[Sayros]

Not bad, just lacklustre football. Winning the world cup is obviously a fantastic achievement. You can hardly say they were playing samba.

Playing samba doesn't win WCs anymore.

Not really apparently ^^

Nope, looks like I was off. I do think the offer sheet I heard will be somewhat close to correct, but if he turns it down then he's gone. PSG are desperate to keep a player from the academy to promote it to other youth player as a genuine way to make it to the first team.

Now they're saying we should know after the Belgrade game, so who knows what's going to happen?

 

[#07]

 

[Bwuk]

If true shows how poorly we are run, as it’d cost about 150m to get them both now.

 

[charlenefan]

If true shows how poorly we are run, as it’d cost about 150m to get them both now.

We're poorly run but we aren't the first and certainly won't be the last to miss out on young players before they've made a name for themselves

Wengers built a career on it

 

[breakout67]

We're poorly run but we aren't the first and certainly won't be the last to miss out on young players before they've made a name for themselves

Wengers built a career on it

Arsenal were a horribly run club under Wenger after Dein left. Most of the coaching, scouting and medical staff were puppets for Wenger that were generally incompetent. Wenger positioned himself to have a say in everything. You should have a look at what former goalkeepers said about their goalkeeping coach. This is why they brought in a new head scout, director of football, coaches and revamped the medical staff.

 

[Rozay]

If true shows how poorly we are run, as it’d cost about 150m to get them both now.

It would also cost every other ‘poorly run’ club who didn’t sign them for peanuts £150m to sign them today. That is the game.

 

[Oly Francis]

Playing samba doesn't win WCs anymore.



Nope, looks like I was off. I do think the offer sheet I heard will be somewhat close to correct, but if he turns it down then he's gone. PSG are desperate to keep a player from the academy to promote it to other youth player as a genuine way to make it to the first team.

Now they're saying we should know after the Belgrade game, so who knows what's going to happen?

If they want to do that, Kimpembe or Diaby are far better choices, Rabiot's days for PSG are pretty much over to me. I've heard the rumors, i've read that Nasser was offering him around 10M/year. It would be ridiculous considering his mindset and his performances lately.

 

[Oly Francis]

It would also cost every other ‘poorly run’ club who didn’t sign them for peanuts £150m to sign them today. That is the game.

It's really easy to be a successful scout if you know in advance who's going to be a top player and who isn't... You can't predict everything, or you'd sign Mbappé when he's 12, Messi at 8 and Ronaldo when his mother's pregnant.

 

[Rozay]

It's really easy to be a successful scout if you know in advance who's going to be a top player and who isn't... You can't predict everything, or you'd sign Mbappé when he's 12, Messi at 8 and Ronaldo when his mother's pregnant.

Exactly.

 

[Elite Intelligence]

Not bad, just lacklustre football. Winning the world cup is obviously a fantastic achievement. You can hardly say they were playing samba.

They still played good tacticful football. Also like someone else said, samba football doesn't work. You need to be quick in your attack

 

[MadDogg]

If true shows how poorly we are run, as it’d cost about 150m to get them both now.

And how many other teams were also after them and also failed? How many other youngsters did this guy scout that didn't go on to make it? If you scout a shitload of players of course a few will go on to make it big.

They (and most other youngsters) would both likely choose Ajax ahead of just about anyone else because they provide almost the perfect platform for kids coming through.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

If true shows how poorly we are run, as it’d cost about 150m to get them both now.

We are turning into Arsenal now, aren't we? Just sack Mourinho and hire Wenger so the transformation can be completed.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I would rather see him join PSG(even though I don't like them) if we are not even in the running because both Barca and City miss out on a huge talent.

 

[Galaad Joachim]

France havent impressed me for years despite them winning the world cup. How a team with that much quality can consistently play such terrible football is quite an achievement.

Hello Kirk,

Maybe because most of our players are used to counter-attacking football and the "winning at all costs" mentality of DD. For it to be working you need the players to have 100% faith in the coach, Bielsa, Simeone and DD succeded in federating a team around such a project, it is no easy task to convince players to wait without the ball and to be pressing for 90'.

Mourinho is trying to do the same right here, but it seems that is reputation, media's opinion about him and the reluctance of some of our players to adopt this style imped his succes. If Simeone was coaching in PL i'd be destroyed by the press, same for Deschamps.

 

[KirkDuyt]

They still played good tacticful football. Also like someone else said, samba football doesn't work. You need to be quick in your attack

Not actual samba ofcourse, but, and excuse me for saying this, look at City, they win in an exciting way. They have amazing players ofcourse, but so does France.

And my first post was in a reaction to someone discrediting Frenkie de Jong against France because his team lost 1-2. Which is absurd seeing as he only came on as a sub which improved us dramatically andthis was his debut for the national team.

 

[Member 93275]

Which is absurd seeing as he only came on as a sub which improved us dramatically andthis was his debut for the national team.

That was against Peru. Against France away was his first full game. We had an great second half and 1-1 would have been right, but they scored a late winner.

 

[KirkDuyt]

That was against Peru. Against France away was his first full game. We had an great second half and 1-1 would have been right, but they scored a late winner.

Oh my bad, but that's my point yeah, he improved us greatly against France and even though we lost, he played a great game against a world class midfield, while having next to no experience in the team.

 

[Bwuk]

And how many other teams were also after them and also failed? How many other youngsters did this guy scout that didn't go on to make it? If you scout a shitload of players of course a few will go on to make it big.

They (and most other youngsters) would both likely choose Ajax ahead of just about anyone else because they provide almost the perfect platform for kids coming through.

It would also cost every other ‘poorly run’ club who didn’t sign them for peanuts £150m to sign them today. That is the game.

What's the point in having scouts if we aren't going to listen to them? In 2016 they'd of been 17 and 19, if our scouts are producing "god knows how many reports" on top talents then why are we not going after them?

Any scout worth their salt would of been able to tell how good they were at that age. For what it's worth, Giggs claims to have been watching Gabriel Jesus when he was 17, and Mbappe before his Monaco debut and the club turned down going for them.

It's really easy to be a successful scout if you know in advance who's going to be a top player and who isn't... You can't predict everything, or you'd sign Mbappé when he's 12, Messi at 8 and Ronaldo when his mother's pregnant.

Major difference between scouting 12 or 8 year olds compared to 17 - 19 year olds.

 

[Rozay]

What's the point in having scouts if we aren't going to listen to them? In 2016 they'd of been 17 and 19, if our scouts are producing "god knows how many reports" on top talents then why are we not going after them?

Any scout worth their salt would of been able to tell how good they were at that age. For what it's worth, Giggs claims to have been watching Gabriel Jesus when he was 17, and Mbappe before his Monaco debut and the club turned down going for them.



Major difference between scouting 12 or 8 year olds compared to 17 - 19 year olds.

We do listen to them. That’s why we signed Aliou Traore, Lukasz Bergjer, Diogo Dalot and Tahith Chong. We didn’t sign Dr Ligt and De Jong. There will be others. Again, that is the game. Again, I didn’t see any other top clubs De Ligt and De Jong either, so unless we are the only ones with decent scouts, they didn’t listen to their scouts either on this occasion. It’s part of the game.

 

[Beaucoup]

Sounds like a bitter ex-employee to me, very easy to do a retrospective "told you so" I doubt these where only the three players on his list, but he won't mention the others because they probably don't fit his agenda.

Nothing to see here, the press have just picked this up to have another bash at the club.

 

[Bloedrood]

The whole we could've signed them earlier argument is bullshit. Not every Ajax youth player is willing to leave, Ajax is an excellent club to be at for their development, most of them get offers but many stay. And look at what's happening with Fosu-Mensah, he was just as talented as De Ligt and there's no doubt in my mind he'd be further in his development had he stayed at Ajax. How many 19 year old central defenders are starters at top clubs in the Premier League? De Ligt most likely wouldn't be the player he is right now had he joined Manchester United, he probably wouldn't have got much playing time let alone be a Dutch international starter.

 

[charlenefan]

The whole we could've signed them earlier argument is bullshit. Not every Ajax youth player is willing to leave, Ajax is an excellent club to be at for their development, most of them get offers but many stay. And look at what's happening with Fosu-Mensah, he was just as talented as De Ligt and there's no doubt in my mind he'd be further in his development had he stayed at Ajax. How many 19 year old central defenders are starters at top clubs in the Premier League? De Ligt most likely wouldn't be the player he is right now had he joined Manchester United, he probably wouldn't have got much playing time let alone be a Dutch international starter.

Wonder how high Chong's stock would be right now had he stayed as well

 

[Bwuk]

The whole we could've signed them earlier argument is bullshit. Not every Ajax youth player is willing to leave, Ajax is an excellent club to be at for their development, most of them get offers but many stay. And look at what's happening with Fosu-Mensah, he was just as talented as De Ligt and there's no doubt in my mind he'd be further in his development had he stayed at Ajax. How many 19 year old central defenders are starters at top clubs in the Premier League? De Ligt most likely wouldn't be the player he is right now had he joined Manchester United, he probably wouldn't have got much playing time let alone be a Dutch international starter.

Timbo isn't anywhere near De Ligt or De Jongs level. De Jong wasn't even at Ajax until he was 18 - he was at Willem II. De Ligt broke through at 16 and you can bet if we'd offered a decent fee theres no way Ajax would of turned it down.

 

[Member 93275]

Chong should have stayed at Feyenoord, and he would have played many more games right now. He and his mom blew it for 40k.

 

[Stadjer]

Chong should have stayed at Feyenoord, and he would have played many more games right now. He and his mom blew it for 40k.

Ofcourse they do it for the money.. no 16 year old is going to leave his home/school/friends to a new country with a different language if they could earn the same in their home country.

 

[Attacking Midfielder]

Timbo isn't anywhere near De Ligt or De Jongs level. De Jong wasn't even at Ajax until he was 18 - he was at Willem II. De Ligt broke through at 16 and you can bet if we'd offered a decent fee theres no way Ajax would of turned it down.

How bout the player himself? He is a smart guy and has seen many examples of young Dutch players who moved to the Premier League, but few examples of successful ones. These talented players had enough changes to move to top leagues, but they decided to stay for their development. Not a bad choice imo. He played a Europa League final at the age of 17, but would he be a regular under Mourinho when he moved to Manchester at the age of 16? I don't think so.

 

[Bloedrood]

Timbo isn't anywhere near De Ligt or De Jongs level. De Jong wasn't even at Ajax until he was 18 - he was at Willem II. De Ligt broke through at 16 and you can bet if we'd offered a decent fee theres no way Ajax would of turned it down.

I'm from Amsterdam, I even visit Ajax's academy games sometimes, you don't have to explain me about these players. It's easy to say now in hindsight that Fosu-Mensah isn't on their level, but he was regarded just as big a talent as De Ligt when he was 16, excelled both for Ajax and Dutch national youth teams at that time, Ajax were very unhappy to see him go. Frenkie de Jong wasn't even regarded that big a talent yet at 18, there's a reason why he played for Willem II that long and didn't really have his break through into the first team of Ajax until he was 20. So again, it's easy for you now to say that Fosu-Mensah isn't on his level, but De Jong wasn't even regarded anywhere near his level when Fosu-Mensah joined United and that when De Jong is older. There's no doubt in my mind that Fosu-Mensah would be in a much better place right now if he'd taken a similar route to De Ligt, and you might've ended up saying that we should have signed him when he was 16 instead.

Regarding Ajax turning down a fee, it's not just about the club. Most talented Ajax youth players get the chance to leave Ajax, just like Fosu-Mensah they get offers from big European clubs when they're 15-16. But many choose to stay because they know it's good for their development. Not to mention the impact it has on their lifes and families, at that age it isn't just the player that has to move to another country and leave everything behind either, their family or at least a parent often does too. And the Premier League isn't really seen here as a great move for a Dutch youth player, it's seen as risky, some even say it's where Dutch youth talent goes to die.

 

[Adnan]

The whole we could've signed them earlier argument is bullshit. Not every Ajax youth player is willing to leave, Ajax is an excellent club to be at for their development, most of them get offers but many stay. And look at what's happening with Fosu-Mensah, he was just as talented as De Ligt and there's no doubt in my mind he'd be further in his development had he stayed at Ajax. How many 19 year old central defenders are starters at top clubs in the Premier League? De Ligt most likely wouldn't be the player he is right now had he joined Manchester United, he probably wouldn't have got much playing time let alone be a Dutch international starter.

I agree with this post

One example of our incompetence was when we signed Lindelof from Benfica for £35m when we had Axel Tuanzebe coming through, who imo was deserving of the minutes Lindelof got. We basically flushed £35m down the toilet.

 

[Judas]

Tuanzebe by most accounts is doing well on loan, I've no problem with how we've handled him. If he's good enough, he'll make it with us.

 

[Adnan]

Tuanzebe by most accounts is doing well on loan, I've no problem with how we've handled him. If he's good enough, he'll make it with us.

Tuanzebe is doing well and would've done just fine at United if he was given a chance. He showed his potential on his debut against one of the best attackers in the EPL in Alexis Sanchez. There was no need for us to sign Lindelof when we had Tuanzebe. It's a pity it never worked out with LVG because I believe he would've had him in the first team squad.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

Timbo isn't anywhere near De Ligt or De Jongs level. De Jong wasn't even at Ajax until he was 18 - he was at Willem II. De Ligt broke through at 16 and you can bet if we'd offered a decent fee theres no way Ajax would of turned it down.

there's no way De Ligt would have been let go or wanted to leave at 16 regardless of the fee. There's a reason he broke through at 16. everyone in and around the club knew they had gold in hands with him since he was like 14. He's a die-hard Ajax fan who was a season ticket with his dad his whole life. he was at the club from the age of 8 or something. he had plenty of offers, I think from like Bayern and stuff at 15, but there's no way he was ever going to choose that move. Just like Monaco wouldn't let Mbappe go for a seemingly ridiculous offer just before his breakthrough, knowing how he'd be valued in the very nar-future, neither would Ajax with De Ligt. The whole club/first team depends on players like De Ligt breaking through and leading the first team. There''s no way we can get equivalent talent externally. There's no way any other team could have signed De Ligt at 16 regardless of the offer. Fosu-Mensah and Dilrosun left because they were the generation when Ajax made a policy change of holding off contract offers until players were 17 to sort of "test" their willingness and commitment to the club and development and it backfired with all three biggest talents (Peeters as well) leaving immediately for United, City, and Real Madrid. A similar story then happened the next year with Malen (/Raiola) to Arsenal and the club quickly changed it's contract policy back, though still losing Redan and Castillo to Chelsea. De Ligt had plenthy offers to leave for every top club in Europe at that age, just like all of our good talents do. I don't know why that scout thinks United would have had a chance regardless of the higher-ups.

with De Jong it's different. If he's talking about when he was still at Willem 2, you'd have had a chance. But then PSV and Ajax had a very public fight over signing him. He chose Ajax and the trajectory that goes along with it. He was immediately very highly rated by the club and again you very very probably wouldn't have got him wanting to leave or Ajax willing to let him go, though I think for crazy money it would have been possible, unlike with De Ligt.

Also TFM was very similarly rated to De Ligt when at Ajax. Had all the ingredients to be amazing. Don't know how the decision was ever made to try to make him a rightback so late in his development.

One thing you do see btw is that certain players tend to make the move partly because of their parents' financial situations. An example of that is TFM who, from what I read at the time, had a family that could really use the guaranteed income that a United contract brought them

 

[Sjaakmeoff]

Probably the best video i've seen on him. No show reel but a good analysis of the last couple of games.

 

[VorZakone]

Very underwhelming against Bayern tonight.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Very underwhelming against Bayern tonight.

Ajax' worst player arguably.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

He's under the microscope right now and that pass nearly cost them the match. Literally every other interview with him currently is some cringeworthy reference to his transfer next summer, so it's interesting to see how he will deal with the added pressure.