Frenkie de Jong| Off to Barca - Confirmed

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Trizy said:
He's 21, playing in the a 7th or 8th rated league. Huge potential maybe but all you have to do is read some comments on this thread that are severally overrating his current ability. Like he can just walk into a Barcelona midfield.
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You mean like Arthur from Gremio Porto Alegre walking into the Barca midfield? If you are a classy footballer, you wont need much time and walk into a top team.

Since Barca will probably sign Rabiot, i doubt they will buy Frenkie this summer. Depending on when he wants to move, i dont necessarily see him at Barca. PSG, City or Bayern for me and he will easily be a starter after a few months
 
I'm convinced the hype stems mainly from the Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian football community gang who see the "next Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta" in any player whose passing ability is above average. My suspicion is backed up by the fact that no one is talking about Ajax' actual best midfielder by a mile: Ziyech. Never gets any mention at all so people clearly don't even watch Ajax. Just hoards of Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian hipsters pushing each other up.

The same community had built up Jean-Seri as the next Xavi not long ago who is now at Fulham.
 
Trophy Room said:
You clearly haven't watched enough then. Guy has the highest footballing IQ for a midfielder of his generation. Players like these adapt very quickly to new situations and challenges. Of course he'll need time to settle in the premier league but his potential and ceiling is incredible.
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This is totally baseless, highest football IQ based on what? How do you assess that? There are plenty of smart midfielders, the whole "highest foobtall IQ" stuff come from Barca fans on social media and Mundo Deportivo articles.
He made a crucial mistake vs Bayern to give Coman the 3rd goal by the way

Cait Sith said:
I'm convinced the hype stems mainly from the Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian football community gang who see the "next Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta" in any player whose passing ability is above average. My suspicion is backed up by the fact that no one is talking about Ajax' actual best midfielder by a mile: Ziyech. Never gets any mention at all so people clearly don't even watch Ajax. Just hoards of Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian hipsters pushing each other up.
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This is exactly what I think too.
His hype come from him being a Dutch player from Ajax and linked to Barcelona as someone who fit their style.
Ziyech has been leagues better than him for Ajax really;
 
Yeah brilliant mates. The Ajax hipsters collectively managed to fool the scouts of Barca, Man City, PSG and Bayern, who spend countless hours professionally assessing him but fell for it nevertheless. And you guys, despite no assessment of the footballer at all, offer this brilliant insight, catching us in the act! It's all an illusion created by Ajax hipsters, such as KirkDuyt.
 
Cait Sith said:
I'm convinced the hype stems mainly from the Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian football community gang who see the "next Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta" in any player whose passing ability is above average. My suspicion is backed up by the fact that no one is talking about Ajax' actual best midfielder by a mile: Ziyech. Never gets any mention at all so people clearly don't even watch Ajax. Just hoards of Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian hipsters pushing each other up.

The same community had built up Jean-Seri as the next Xavi not long ago who is now at Fulham.
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I don't get it, people can't praise one of the most interesting up and coming dm's around without also mentioning that an 25yo attacking mid is, probably, in the form of his life and playing well in the dutch league?

And i'm not so sure you need to follow Ajax closely either because he's looking really good for his NT as well, playing some of the best teams in europe this year.
 
I've watched all of their CL games this campaign to see him at that level, but the more developed Ziyech and Tadic were the ones that stole the show. I like him though, he's composed and shows the potential of becoming an excellent passer. I'm less convinced by his dribbling that a number of the eredivisie HL's focus a lot on, as his feet aren't particularly fast and he's often exploiting huge gaps of space that aren't often there even just sticking to other more defensive second-tier leagues like Portugal or Russia, to say nothing of Italy or England. That side of his game wasn't much in evidence in the CL matches and is something i could see him struggling to maintain at a higher level.
 
Cait Sith said:
I'm convinced the hype stems mainly from the Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian football community gang who see the "next Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta" in any player whose passing ability is above average. My suspicion is backed up by the fact that no one is talking about Ajax' actual best midfielder by a mile: Ziyech. Never gets any mention at all so people clearly don't even watch Ajax. Just hoards of Barca/Guardiola/Dutch Cruyffian hipsters pushing each other up.

The same community had built up Jean-Seri as the next Xavi not long ago who is now at Fulham.
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Ziyech wastes so many balls.. He's football intelligence is nowhere near Frenkie's... Ziyech would be huge flop in any bigger league.. He's maybe Watford material or something like that..
 
AngryCroat said:
Ziyech wastes so many balls.. He's football intelligence is nowhere near Frenkie's... Ziyech would be huge flop in any bigger league.. He's maybe Watford material or something like that..
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His technical skill, end product and overall ability on the ball is lightyears ahead of De Jong's
 
AngryCroat said:
Ziyech wastes so many balls.. He's football intelligence is nowhere near Frenkie's... Ziyech would be huge flop in any bigger league.. He's maybe Watford material or something like that..
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Ziyech's long passing is one of the best in the world. De Jong's is really rather poor considering his position and reputation. Frenkie's short passing and overall distribution is very good though. Ziyech's dribbling in the final third is better, but his decisionmaking a lot worse.
 
Oh he's a dead cert to cut it at any league for any team. The boy has it. I do hope he continues to play as a DM despite the temptation to move him around due to his ability. Hes such a natural in that position and the perfect player to start plays.
 
I think it's important to remember the role of the respective players. Ziyech is an attacking midfielder and those are usually the most technical players on the pitch. De Jong is deployed deeper and so his technical ability needs to be compared to like minded players. So it's no use comparing the technical ability of those two in regards to who is better. We have a need for a player like De Jong where as we don't really need an attacking midfielder right now.
 
Ziyech is a #10. Frenkie plays as a 6 or an 8. They're very different players. Obviously Ziyech puts more adventure and risk in his game. That's his job really.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
Ziyech is a better player than Fred and we splashed 50M for him.
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You can't compare 2 players on different positions. Fred clearly is a good player, he needs time to adapt to the PL. Any team splashing out 50 million for Ziyech would be stupid, but that's just my opinion.
 
onemanarmy said:
You can't compare 2 players on different positions. Fred clearly is a good player, he needs time to adapt to the PL. Any team splashing out 50 million for Ziyech would be stupid, but that's just my opinion.
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Double standarts.
Ziyech for Ajax is much better than Fred was for Shaktar. It's not even close.
If paying 50M for the best player in Eredivisie is stupid then paying 50M for Fred has to be up there with the worst transfers of the past few years.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
Double standarts.
Ziyech for Ajax is much better than Fred was for Shaktar. It's not even close.
If paying 50M for the best player in Eredivisie is stupid then paying 50M for Fred has to be up there with the worst transfers of the past few years.
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Fred was in high demand. Ziyech isn’t at this point. Eredivisie hasn’t exactly been the standard for good players coming through. And he isn’t even the best player at Ajax.
 
onemanarmy said:
Fred was in high demand. Ziyech isn’t at this point. Eredivisie hasn’t exactly been the standard for good players coming through. And he isn’t even the best player at Ajax.
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He is the best player at Ajax. Who is better than him in your opinion? Please don't say De Jong or I'll have a laugh.
Eeredivisie isn't a good standart for good players but the Ukranian league was when it came to Fred?
Fred in high demand? By who? I literally don't remember a single article about another club competing with us for him.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
He is the best player at Ajax. Who is better than him in your opinion? Please don't say De Jong or I'll have a laugh.
Eeredivisie isn't a good standart for good players but the Ukranian league was when it came to Fred?
Fred in high demand? By who? I literally don't remember a single article about another club competing with us for him.
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De Ligt.

City als wanted him, was widely reported.

And the Ukrainian league has produced better players last 10 years than the Eredivisie.

Now let’s end this discussion here, agree to disagree.
 
onemanarmy said:
De Ligt.

City als wanted him, was widely reported.

And the Ukrainian league has produced better players last 10 years than the Eredivisie.

Now let’s end this discussion here, agree to disagree.
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Maybe if you go that far back and count the Brazilians that were imported by Shakhtars oligarch money. The last three years the Ukrainian league has not even been close to the Dutch league. Nowadays its on the level of the Swedish or Norwegian league. If even that.
Its definetely fair to put a questionmark of our purchase of Fred because of the level he was playing at. Does not mean he still cant turn good mind you.
 
I was reading the latest posts here and forgot that i was surfing Frenkie De Jong thread.

Can we keep it on topic?
 
Whenever I've watched Ajax in the CL, I can't really say this kid was incredible or anything. He was just decent, but nothing special. I was more impressed by their LB Tagliafico, Ziyech and De Ligt.
 
VorZakone said:
Whenever I've watched Ajax in the CL, I can't really say this kid was incredible or anything. He was just decent, but nothing special. I was more impressed by their LB Tagliafico, Ziyech and De Ligt.
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I don't see it either, the sums quoted are just ludicrous.

People get carried away and hype up any decent talent after few good months. Last season, Kasper Dolberg was Ajax's hottest property and heir to Zlatan. This season he's fighting for a place with a 35yo Huntelaar. He's done nothing yet to warrant that sort of money, let him prove himself for a longer time.
 
onemanarmy said:
Behave. Ziyech is almost 26 and is still playing at Ajax (with all due respect). He'd be a good shout for a team such as Benfica, Lyon, Schalke, Everton...
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just look at these passes in one game alone.



in terms of long term technique and vision he truly is up there. he unfortunately combines that with poor decision making too often and ends up playing these inherently risky balls way too often at times
 
The few matches I've seen of him he does alot of backwards passes and plays it safe at walking pace. It looks tidy but where does the hype come from.
 
Kush said:
Last season, Kasper Dolberg was Ajax's hottest property and heir to Zlatan. This season he's fighting for a place with a 35yo Huntelaar.
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He's been injured. Now he has 7 goals and 3 assists in 11 league games. A goal every 99 mins.
 
Kush said:
I don't see it either, the sums quoted are just ludicrous.

People get carried away and hype up any decent talent after few good months. Last season, Kasper Dolberg was Ajax's hottest property and heir to Zlatan. This season he's fighting for a place with a 35yo Huntelaar. He's done nothing yet to warrant that sort of money, let him prove himself for a longer time.
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Dolberg's been out for well over a year with injuries
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Ziyech is a #10. Frenkie plays as a 6 or an 8. They're very different players. Obviously Ziyech puts more adventure and risk in his game. That's his job really.
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obviously, but my point is that Frenkie simply doesn't have those balls in him. his long passes are really very poor. just lofted with a floaty arch into the general direction
 
The Stain said:
He's been injured. Now he has 7 goals and 3 assists in 11 league games. A goal every 99 mins.
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Ajaxsuarez said:
Dolberg's been out for well over a year with injuries
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Thank you, but once again it's amazing how quickly time can change the fortunes. I remember him being linked with big money moves and now I've hardly seen people speak about him since his breakthrough year.

Getting back on topic, I still maintain he needs to prove himself longer. Show his qualities against better European sides and in Int'l tournaments.
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
just look at these passes in one game alone.



in terms of long term technique and vision he truly is up there. he unfortunately combines that with poor decision making too often and ends up playing these inherently risky balls way too often at times
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Sorry, watched he video and any passes I've hit and am able to hit during my very poor amateur career under similar levels of pressure i.e. barely any, cannot be contested as one of the best long passers in the world.

Good player, looks very lively and some nice/good passes with variance but my word those were not the passes of the best long passer in the world. How many were first time?
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Sorry, watched he video and any passes I've hit and am able to hit during my very poor amateur career under similar levels of pressure i.e. barely any, cannot be contested as one of the best long passers in the world.

Good player, looks very lively and some nice/good passes with variance but my word those were not the passes of the best long passer in the world. How many were first time?
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what? Most passes in the video he turns open and immediately hits a pass?

slightly unrelated to the type of passes we're talking about, but speaking of first touch passes, how about this one of his to split open the Bayern defence?

 
Interesting to see the backlash in this thread. Scrutiny is good. Somewhere along the line the balanced view of the kid will reveal itself.
 
The boy has world-class written all over him. Not sure how a footballer with his level of ability could have a doubting Thomas. Signing Ziyech instead of him is the same as when Arsenal foolishly decided to sign Gervinho instead Hazard.
 
The boy has world-class written all over him. Not sure how a footballer with his level of ability could have a doubting Thomas. Signing Ziyech instead of him is the same as when Arsenal foolishly decided to sign Gervinho instead Hazard.
 
RooneyLegend said:
The boy has world-class written all over him. Not sure how a footballer with his level of ability could have a doubting Thomas. Signing Ziyech instead of him is the same as when Arsenal foolishly decided to sign Gervinho instead Hazard.
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Holy mother of delusional. Hazard was the best footballer in Ligue 1, De Jong isn't even the best at Ajax
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
just look at these passes in one game alone.



in terms of long term technique and vision he truly is up there. he unfortunately combines that with poor decision making too often and ends up playing these inherently risky balls way too often at times
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His long passes both on the floor and in the air are amazing. I also like the fact that he plays these long balls instantly and doesn't need those extra milliseconds to think over it. Don't know if we should actually go for him though. We don't play with a No.10. Can he play as a winger or in Herrera's role?
 
These Ziyech lovers haha. Can they also explain why last summer when he wanted and could leave, there was no interest except AS Roma, who went for little Kluivert instead, while the biggest clubs want De Jong? De Jong is on a completely different level. Ziyech will eventually get his transfer, but it will be AS Roma level, not the absolute top, and he will have it difficult there. Ajax enables him, he can do his thing, not track back, lose the ball lots of times, even when Ajax is under pressure and he should have kept the ball in the team. If you do that in Italy or England, you end up on the bench, there are too many other good players to get away with it. At Ajax, the likes of Schone will clean up for him and enable his play. Interestingly, only Bayern managed to suppress De Jong effectively once, in the 2nd CL game, and the trick was to close in with 1 player ahead of him and another to cover the passing lines and to close in when the first player failed. It sort of worked, but at the expense of creating lots of space elsewhere, and in that way it didn't work. Ziyech among others profited from that. There is a reason it wasn't the other way round. For Ziyech to work, you need other players to work for him. There are a dime a dozen players like that. De Jong is the other way round, he's a metronome who enables the team. While Ziyech will have it difficult in a bigger competition, I think De Jong however will profit from playing for a bigger team. For example, if he would play for Barca and they would play Bayern, Bayern can't do the same thing, they couldn't sacrifice two players to a DM when you have the likes of Messi and others running around.
 
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