that’s how the play for brazil and he regularly plays well. he covers for neymar on the left excellently too. there’s a reason he gets in ahead of fabinho.
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
Or maybe, just maybe, it’s possible to form an opinion on how good they each might be without the other.
If you’re struggling with this, personally, try watching Brazil and Scotland. Fred has been man of the match for Brazil. McT can’t even get picked in midfield for lowly Scotland.
I'm not struggling with anything, Fred's performances in the Coppa del Farmers or whatever it's called weren't all that impressive, both are bang average nothing players, trying to claim either are good enough or trying to make one seem good by shitting on the other is bizarre, neither are any good for the level we are supposedly aspiring to.
If you really can’t differentiate between the two you need to follow a different sport.
They are both not good enough, I don't see what you can't grasp with that, is McTominay more shite? Ok, it doesn't alter the fact Fred is shite most of the time as well, the point is neither are good enough for United, differentiating their levels of shiteness doesn't make either of them good.
It makes for a much more informed discussion than “they’re both shite”. That’s for sure. And Fred will almost certainly be a regular for the next manager too. Wait and see.
Fred statistically before he came here was one of the best pressing midfielders outside of the top clubs in Europe. That’s why city and others were also in for him. He’s not a DM and he’s been asked to be a one man midfield solution here at times. When he’s able to get up and press and lay it off and play his natural game he’s actually a very good player like he showed in the second half tonight and on plenty of other occasions too.
worst post of the year
I thought that Fred was very good tonight. He has had a run of poor games this season, it’s true, but he’s a far better player than he gets credited for on here. He looked sharp, quick, and passed the ball nicely in his understated way. It seems he plays the role of the scapegoat for Ole’s poor organisational abilities. that said, several of them looked better than they’ve looked for some time, though personally I’m unsure why. If Ole was so popular, why should this be the case?
The discussion is one set of fanboys blame the other midfielders shitness on his partner, they are both nowhere near good enough, it's funny you say the next manager will play Fred but both our previous managers played McTominay regularly and favour him over Fred, so who's to say the next manager won't prefer him as well, if whichever manager we get uses either as a regular starter we'll maintain our 3 year streak of winning feck all, wait and see.
Last edited:
I think he can be popular amongst the players as a person, while they also don’t rate him as a manager. Basically similar to how he’s perceived by (most) fans. And at the very top level if a footballer doesn’t think they’re going places under a manager they’ll take their foot slightly off the gas. Which makes a huge difference.
Fred cultists always use the "Pep wanted him" argument to try and defend his nothingness, a midfielder whose positioning is dire and who isn't good defensively or offensively has no place in a team that aims to win trophies, he's a grafter suited to a mid table battling side where heart and effort matter more than technique, ability and intelligence.
let’s not jump into conclusions and say players are performing better once Ole left. Carrick was pretty much core to Ole’s reign.
i agree fred looked good tonight. But in other games, with a similar set up, if we get pressed like we did against watford, he’ll have a poor performance. For brazil, he plays better but that’s because he plays next to fabinho, a player much better than mctominay, which allows fred more room to operate. With the McFred set up, both players are required to do so much and almost end up doing nothing…
Are you feeling ok?
Fred has only played under two managers. And only half a season under Mourinho. Since he signed for us he’s played in more league games than McTominay has.
Which one of you two is Goldbridge? Or both?
Fred probably made those same two interceptions in the last few games with ole but because nobody was committed to the press nothing happens.
Organisation makes players look better. Who knew?
Organisation makes players look better. Who knew?
Some of our fans are too blinkered to see that, unfortunately. Most of us can agree we need to press better as a team right? Our best pressers currently are Fred Bruno and Cavani.
We win the ball up high tonight which got us two goals “he’s shite, brainless, what does he actually do well” when he just showed everyone what he can do, very clearly. Needs a better partner in there to really control games and to play off.
Last edited:
I'm feeling fine, they have both only played under Mourinho and Ole and now Carrick, McTominay has missed some time with injuries, they've played the bulk of their games together and roughly the same amount of minutes, McTominay has every bit as much of a chance of sticking around as a starter, to suggest otherwise is crazy, and the fact remains, if either of them remains a regular United will me remain irrelevant in major comoetitions.
100%
What's he got to do with anything? Like he's the only one that can see both of them aren't good enough.
Roy Keane barely classes Fred as a footballer, maybe he's got multiple accounts here as well, all designed to besmirch the name of Fred.I think we all agree he is a limited player technically but give him a role in a well organised side and he’ll thrive.
Not quite Kante but similar in style
Put in a solid performance against Villareal. Concerns about his performances overall are still warranted, but under the difficult circumstances he faced today he acquitted himself well.
Quality performance. Could be an important player under a coach who can bring some organisation and set pressing traps.
I find this laughable. Fred is obviously the one of the two who'll get more game time under a progressive manager. McTominay's poor positioning and horrid passing are his undoings. Fred is willing to cover yards and has better ability on the ball. Time will prove me right on this I'm sure of it
He still is. His pressing stats last season/this were higher than Kante's last I checked. Goes to show how much his effort has been wasted. In a team which can press properly Fred would be very dangerous.
I'm a bit baffled by the overreactions and those in denial or overly negative mode.
Neither McT nor Fred are #6s, complete CMs or good enough box-to-box midfielders to function well as a midfield pair. That's the long and short of why it doesn't work.
Fred with a more defensive partner can work very well. Certainly doing a lot right for Brazil where he is deployed properly. Not a nailed on starter by any stretch, but nowhere near our most pressing concern for an upgrade.
Conversely, McT is a squad player. Yeah, can do a job, but not someone deserving a discussion along the lines of "with such partner". You simply shouldn't visualise him as a starter but a backup/rotation squaddie.
Neither McT nor Fred are #6s, complete CMs or good enough box-to-box midfielders to function well as a midfield pair. That's the long and short of why it doesn't work.
Fred with a more defensive partner can work very well. Certainly doing a lot right for Brazil where he is deployed properly. Not a nailed on starter by any stretch, but nowhere near our most pressing concern for an upgrade.
Conversely, McT is a squad player. Yeah, can do a job, but not someone deserving a discussion along the lines of "with such partner". You simply shouldn't visualise him as a starter but a backup/rotation squaddie.
Kante was going to solve the Pogba's problem though with his pressing and what not.
I wonder how their other defensive stats compare.
I'll use last seasons stats for the highest sample size.
Stats 2020/21:
Tackles in which team wins possession back are even (88 to 87). Vs. a dribble, amount of tackles are same (30 to 29), but Fred attempted more tackles than Kante ( 87 to 60) but had lower tackle success % (35 to 48).
Pressing wise, Fred made 639 presses to Kante's 478, & Fred pressed more in each phase; 228 to 201 in Def 3rd, 300 to 213 in Mid 3rd, 111 to 64 in Att 3rd.
Possession wise, Fred beat Kante for amount of touches of the ball overall (2092 to 1806), & had more touches in every phase. Dribble success % they are even. Ball carries, Fred had higher total ball controls (1387 to 1185). He also carried the ball further (6574 yards to 5484), with slightly higher distance towards opposing goal (3168 to 2999). Receiving the ball, Fred was the target of a pass more (1560 to 1298), but both had even pass success % (94%).
Last edited:
Interesting. Thank you!
He is good a pressing high up the pitch. He can be an asset if he improves his first touch and short passing.
Fred starts for Utd and Brazil. If you can wear those iconic shirts in your career and be 'shit', I'll take that shit all day, every day. I won't be surprised whoever comes in, will also want his 'shit' too. Maybe it's because like today, its that piece of shit, that probably was the difference in creating the goal. Amazing how important 'shit' can be when it matters....
You're welcome. I've updated my post to go into more detail.
I think it just proves that a midfield job is too much for one man. Chelsea playing with 2 or 3 CMs/DMs sharing work load and playing front foot might have the reason that Kante stats were not that impressed compared to Fred who has been mostly one man midfield for United for this season and the last one.
At United, Fred is decent enough but his other partners are either lacking at work rate or skills to improve as a whole.
I wonder how they compared to each other in 2019 when Chelsea was a tad shit under Frank.
This season Fred is actually blowing Kante out of the water in his stats.
Fred's made 224 pressures to Kante's 93, with 69 to 31 in Def 3rd, 127 to 38 in Mid 3rd, 28 to 24 in Att 3rd.
He's made 24 tackles to Kante's 15. He's made 19 blocks overall to Kante's 10, & blocked 4 shots to Kante's 1. He has higher interceptions than Kante (12 to 9), & also made 14 clearances to Kante's 2.
His passing stats are better. He's completed 408 passes to Kante's 269, with a total distance almost 2x higher (7616 yards to 4363), with passing distance towards goal much higher (1937 to 1278). He's completed 166 short passes to Kante's 142, 188 medium passes to Kante's 107, & 47 long passes to Kante's 17. He's also completed more passes under pressure (89 to 61), and made 14 switches of the play to Kante's 4.
His possession stats again are better. He's had 584 touches to Kante's 384, whilst having more ball touches (355 to 272). The only stats Kante is superior are him having more successful dribbles (10 to 3), & he's carried the ball further (1436 to 1232).
Considering the narrative surrounding Fred by fans/pundits/media, doesn't it suggest he gets seriously unfairly singled out? If Fred is supposed to be so poor, how are those stats possible?
Fred's made 224 pressures to Kante's 93, with 69 to 31 in Def 3rd, 127 to 38 in Mid 3rd, 28 to 24 in Att 3rd.
He's made 24 tackles to Kante's 15. He's made 19 blocks overall to Kante's 10, & blocked 4 shots to Kante's 1. He has higher interceptions than Kante (12 to 9), & also made 14 clearances to Kante's 2.
His passing stats are better. He's completed 408 passes to Kante's 269, with a total distance almost 2x higher (7616 yards to 4363), with passing distance towards goal much higher (1937 to 1278). He's completed 166 short passes to Kante's 142, 188 medium passes to Kante's 107, & 47 long passes to Kante's 17. He's also completed more passes under pressure (89 to 61), and made 14 switches of the play to Kante's 4.
His possession stats again are better. He's had 584 touches to Kante's 384, whilst having more ball touches (355 to 272). The only stats Kante is superior are him having more successful dribbles (10 to 3), & he's carried the ball further (1436 to 1232).
Considering the narrative surrounding Fred by fans/pundits/media, doesn't it suggest he gets seriously unfairly singled out? If Fred is supposed to be so poor, how are those stats possible?
Defensive stats are a bit of a red herring because we've been under the cosh significantly more than Chelsea.
Passing was never Kante's strong suit, his thing is dispossessing without fouling and immediately carrying the ball forwards and you see that quite clearly in the stats.
We also run a lot of our play through Fred while Chelsea run their build up through Jorginho / Thiago Silva.
In your head probably. Don’t cry if that’s not the case. Mctominay is pathetically bad. Put Declan rice in this team and Fred goes up a level, Mctominay stays the same looking to hide. The bloke won’t even start for Southampton ahead of Armstrong, Romeu and JWP.
I find it laughable that anyone thinks either of these 2 are starting calibre midfielders in a team that actually intends to compete for major trophies, there's also no sign of this progressive manager coming in, we are likely to hire Pochettino who liked players like Dier and Sissoko. This thread and the McTominay thread are like the fecking twilight zone, the idea I see in one of the posts above has Fred with a more defensive midfield partner, like he's got any of the qualities to be the creative, attacking #8 in a midfield partnership, it's nuts.
Isn't that because Fred played every game while Kante missed many?
Fred is definitely a starting calibre midfielder, don't blame Fred for a managers poor structural and organisational capabilities. Fred can definitely play the number 8, a number 8 doesn't have to be attacking, just has to move the ball from defense to the attacking positions, Liverpool have won the league and UCL with Henderson Fabinho and Gigi in midfield, which one is the attacking creative number 8 ?
Also this has probably been mentioned but you've obviously never watched Brazil play, Fred keeps Fabinho out of the team and is widely loved in Brazil and is probably at the moment their best performing midfielder (which includes 4x UCL winner Casemiro).
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...l-news/fred-dani-alves-brazil-united-21914241
- Status