[Litch]

At 2-1 down, we have a corner kick, Bruno couldn't make a decent cross which was defended easily and somehow the ball gets to Fred, for no reason whatsoever, he decided to pass it all the way back to DDG and who had a terrible kick and City got a dangerous FK subsequently.
A little decision of passing the ball back when there is no need to, can lead to opportunities against the team

We lose (or don’t win), let’s pile into the usual suspects and post that they are shite and forensically point out a moment when the issue wasn’t the pass back but the fact DDG kick was rubbish. Believe it or not, someone posted he passed it back to his wrong foot!!!

Fred is a good squad player, no more or less but to post on here about a bloody back pass when there is so much more that you could be moaning about him is ridiculous.

 

[Litch]

I got slated for this at the time but he did the exact same thing against atletico and de gea pumped it out for a throw which led to their goal. He had no need to go all the way back to the keeper in both instances

yes you were right to get slated cause it’s football and there are many times that when someone has pumped it our for a throwing, it’s prevented a goal. You like other fans have the benefit of hindsight to focus when it when wrong but never when it was the right decision.

 

[kouroux]

We lose (or don’t win), let’s pile into the usual suspects and post that they are shite and forensically point out a moment when the issue wasn’t the pass back but the fact DDG kick was rubbish. Believe it or not, someone posted he passed it back to his wrong foot!!!

Fred is a good squad player, no more or less but to post on here about a bloody back pass when there is so much more that you could be moaning about him is ridiculous.

It's his thread so it makes sense to talk about him. Telling the obvious and simple truth isn't slating. The backpass is a symptom of our players being too scared and with zero confidence on the ball. Check what he did vs Atletico, it led to their goal too so you cannot say nor imply it's a meaningless thing. It goes against the principle of the football we wanna aspire to

 

[arnie_ni]

yes you were right to get slated cause it’s football and there are many times that when someone has pumped it our for a throwing, it’s prevented a goal. You like other fans have the benefit of hindsight to focus when it when wrong but never when it was the right decision.

It wasn't hindsight. I said it as soon as he done it before de gea didn't even get his clearance right. It was a poor unnecessary decision, as was the one yesterday to go all the way back to de gea, who again fluffed his clearance

 

[jesperjaap]

It's his thread so it makes sense to talk about him. Telling the obvious and simple truth isn't slating. The backpass is a symptom of our players being too scared and with zero confidence on the ball. Check what he did vs Atletico, it led to their goal too so you cannot say nor imply it's a meaningless thing. It goes against the principle of the football we wanna aspire to

He may be right there are a million other things wrong, but you are right to point it out, I wouldnt slate that. lots of poor decision making, poor positioning, poor passing is costing us goals and Fred is one of the players who is guilty of that regularly, hardly alone but it should be obvious to anybody with eyes and a brain

 

[arnie_ni]

It's his thread so it makes sense to talk about him. Telling the obvious and simple truth isn't slating. The backpass is a symptom of our players being too scared and with zero confidence on the ball. Check what he did vs Atletico, it led to their goal too so you cannot say nor imply it's a meaningless thing. It goes against the principle of the football we wanna aspire to

That's what i think it was as well. Didn't trust his own ability when someone was closing him down and instead passed it all the way back to possibly the worst keeper in the league with the ball at their feet.

Yesterday It looked like he had a pass down the left touchline to I'm assuming sancho but it could be anyone from a corner.

 

[kouroux]

He may be right there are a million other things wrong, but you are right to point it out, I wouldnt slate that. lots of poor decision making, poor positioning, poor passing is costing us goals and Fred is one of the players who is guilty of that regularly, hardly alone but it should be obvious to anybody with eyes and a brain

100% true but like I said, I don't hesitate talking about other players in their appropriate threads. Fred wasn't the worst by far yesterday.

That's what i think it was as well. Didn't trust his own ability when someone was closing him down and instead passed it all the way back to possibly the worst keeper in the league with the ball at their feet.

Yesterday It looked like he had a pass down the left touchline to I'm assuming sancho but it could be anyone from a corner.

That's what I thought as well

 

[Litch]

It's his thread so it makes sense to talk about him. Telling the obvious and simple truth isn't slating. The backpass is a symptom of our players being too scared and with zero confidence on the ball. Check what he did vs Atletico, it led to their goal too so you cannot say nor imply it's a meaningless thing. It goes against the principle of the football we wanna aspire to

Yes makes sense to talk about him but that doesn‘t mean (for me anyway) let’s just pile in on the players we don’t rate when we lose or don’t win. Maybe being more balanced would help given in a game we had few chances, we created one and nearly scored another. What about the block on DB or am I being too forensic talking about individual moments?

You see neither is it obvious or is it truth, it’s a fans perception of obvious or their own truth.
For me its completely meaningless to check these type of individual moments because if that’s the case, where does it start from and how far do you want to go back for any goal? You see it’s only those who have an agenda that want to apply a set of circumstances and then blame to make their point.

Should Fred have passed it back, well that’s a decision he made but it’s nonsense to generalise what that pass in 95 mins of football is a symbol of.

 

[Litch]

It wasn't hindsight. I said it as soon as he done it before de gea didn't even get his clearance right. It was a poor unnecessary decision, as was the one yesterday to go all the way back to de gea, who again fluffed his clearance

So what. What else did you see? Hope you were busy typing in the other 10 players meaningless things that they should have done, but I guessing you probably didn’t.

 

[kouroux]

Yes makes sense to talk about him but that doesn‘t mean (for me anyway) let’s just pile in on the players we don’t rate when we lose or don’t win. Maybe being more balanced would help given in a game we had few chances, we created one and nearly scored another. What about the block on DB or am I being too forensic talking about individual moments?

You see neither is it obvious or is it truth, it’s a fans perception of obvious or their own truth.
For me its completely meaningless to check these type of individual moments because if that’s the case, where does it start from and how far do you want to go back for any goal? You see it’s only those who have an agenda that want to apply a set of circumstances and then blame to make their point.

Should Fred have passed it back, well that’s a decision he made but it’s nonsense to generalise what that pass in 95 mins of football is a symbol of.

I don't generalize on the playee based on a single pass in a single game of course. Like I said, it's a syndrome of a much more global disease.
Like Bruno faking injuries at particular moments, it's very telling of the kinda player he is.
It goes beyond that single back pass and it's the same principle for all our players with different things

 

[Litch]

He may be right there are a million other things wrong, but you are right to point it out, I wouldnt slate that. lots of poor decision making, poor positioning, poor passing is costing us goals and Fred is one of the players who is guilty of that regularly, hardly alone but it should be obvious to anybody with eyes and a brain

If I had my dream job, one that rarely comes around and may never happen again. A job that comes with scrutiny like no other and the risk of making wrong decisions would leave questions whether I was the right appointment…..would I then play Fred if he was costing me games and me the sack? Fred isn’t English, not the captain or the poster boy for Nike, he has no currency. If like any player, if he was not available then I’d have to play someone else so if he’s that bad, why haven’t successive managers not played him, even if they don’t have a ready made option?

Im guessing you want RR sacked for playing him as he’s costing us games given he is blind and has no football brain?

Football is all about opinions but whether he’s good enough or not, the One thing that is beyond any doubt is he plays and continues to irrespective of who manages us. The JD for the new manager….’must be blind and have no brain’.

 

[Litch]

I don't generalize on the playee based on a single pass in a single game of course. Like I said, it's a syndrome of a much more global disease.
Like Bruno faking injuries at particular moments, it's very telling of the kinda player he is.
It goes beyond that single back pass and it's the same principle for all our players with different things

I think the issues aren’t polarised to one thing but you mention the example kind of implies that’s exactly what you are doing. All players make mistakes, lots of players fake injuries, its football.

When Fred scored against Leeds or made that pass against West Ham, I’m guessing you didn’t use that as a barometer? I’m sure when Bruno was scoring goals for fun, you didn’t post about him ‘faking injuries’. It’s amazing when we lose, the negative things are part of peoples character but never when we win? It’s never a syndrome then….Dr Kouroux.

 

[VanDeBank]

Flip a coin, sometimes you get good Fred, some times you get bad Fred.

I do think it's an issue of rest and rotation though. He's played a lot of games in succession for us, his game requires a lot of running especially with the other 'midfielders' we play. He looked very sluggish out there today.

I thought the same thing about AWB last season.

Fred's been out of the team plenty. They're just shit, mate.

 

[jesperjaap]

If I had my dream job, one that rarely comes around and may never happen again. A job that comes with scrutiny like no other and the risk of making wrong decisions would leave questions whether I was the right appointment…..would I then play Fred if he was costing me games and me the sack? Fred isn’t English, not the captain or the poster boy for Nike, he has no currency. If like any player, if he was not available then I’d have to play someone else so if he’s that bad, why haven’t successive managers not played him, even if they don’t have a ready made option?

Im guessing you want RR sacked for playing him as he’s costing us games given he is blind and has no football brain?

Football is all about opinions but whether he’s good enough or not, the One thing that is beyond any doubt is he plays and continues to irrespective of who manages us. The JD for the new manager….’must be blind and have no brain’.

So your justification of him not being rubbish is that he is playing? At least that is better than some I have seen sayign he is just out of position or he does lots of good things too.

And no, RR is never getting sacked with so few games left anyway....but I like him. I think he has spoken with calmness, sense and honesty and tactically at least there have been improvements. I am far beyong blaming managers as though none have done very well and are also in part responsible fro recruiting many of these players, it is for a non blind person with a brain surely obvious by now that so many of these players either have the wrong attitude and mindset or not enough quality to perform consistently for us and Fred for me very much falls in to the bracket of the latter. Would I play others over Fred myself yes, but nobody has even done enough for the right to warrant that, the onl yone for me is Matic who cant play week in week out and whose legs have gone.

The same goes for other positions, sure the board may want players to stay for some of the reasons you say but do you think RR is playing them for those reasons, sounds more like you are slating RR indirectly with those comments in my opinion

 

[arnie_ni]

So what. What else did you see? Hope you were busy typing in the other 10 players meaningless things that they should have done, but I guessing you probably didn’t.

So we can't criticise unless we criticise every single mistake every single player makes?

Or is it just Fred you take exception with

 

[Litch]

So your justification of him not being rubbish is that he is playing? At least that is better than some I have seen sayign he is just out of position or he does lots of good things too.

And no, RR is never getting sacked with so few games left anyway....but I like him. I think he has spoken with calmness, sense and honesty and tactically at least there have been improvements. I am far beyong blaming managers as though none have done very well and are also in part responsible fro recruiting many of these players, it is for a non blind person with a brain surely obvious by now that so many of these players either have the wrong attitude and mindset or not enough quality to perform consistently for us and Fred for me very much falls in to the bracket of the latter. Would I play others over Fred myself yes, but nobody has even done enough for the right to warrant that, the onl yone for me is Matic who cant play week in week out and whose legs have gone.

The same goes for other positions, sure the board may want players to stay for some of the reasons you say but do you think RR is playing them for those reasons, sounds more like you are slating RR indirectly with those comments in my opinion

First not slating RR, just saying some people think the likes of Harry being picked are based on them.

Im not black and white like some fans, things rarely are. As you probably gathered, I like Fred but I like Utd more. Do I want us challenging again, of course but I don’t think Fred is the problem. I might be wrong but I don’t think the club thinks Fred or Scott are the problem either, they are squad players playing to their ceiling 6/10 at best giving 100%.

My issue is you don’t need a Scott or Fred starting if our so called elite players are playing to their ceiling. We should be getting out of Pogs and Bruno consistently 8/10. Can you imagine if we had the consistency from them both, the skill plus the 100% work rate , well that’s what City and Liverpool get ever game from their elite players. If we had that both ends of the pitch, the 3rd cog would be less of an issue and a easier fix.

 

[Litch]

So we can't criticise unless we criticise every single mistake every single player makes?

Or is it just Fred you take exception with

Seeing it’s a Fred thread, then that’s what I’m making reference to.

 

[arnie_ni]

Seeing it’s a Fred thread, then that’s what I’m making reference to.

Seeing as it's a fred thread, I'm commenting on an aspect of his play, decision making.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Really disappointed with him for the second goal... A bad pass or daft decision I come to expect, but not a lack of effort

 

[kouroux]

I think the issues aren’t polarised to one thing but you mention the example kind of implies that’s exactly what you are doing. All players make mistakes, lots of players fake injuries, its football.

When Fred scored against Leeds or made that pass against West Ham, I’m guessing you didn’t use that as a barometer? I’m sure when Bruno was scoring goals for fun, you didn’t post about him ‘faking injuries’. It’s amazing when we lose, the negative things are part of peoples character but never when we win? It’s never a syndrome then….Dr Kouroux.

You're guessing it all wrong then. You have no idea what I did or didn't post but still came up with your own conclusion. Whether we win or lose some games, I never lose sight of the bigger pictures and it's that Fred (just like many others, Bruno included) isn't good enough to get Man Utd to where it needs to be. Get off your high horse

 

[kouroux]

Seeing as it's a fred thread, I'm commenting on an aspect of his play, decision making.

As you should, whether it's a win, draw or defeat

 

[arnie_ni]

As you should, whether it's a win, draw or defeat

I wouldn't be so critical of him if I didn't think he could have got his head up and picked out a pass there. He just didn't need to go back to de gea and it allowed City to push out up the field and they ultimately won a fk a got the ball back.

 

[RedIan]

When he lost the ball 35yds from our goal and just stands still watching as city run on and score…. Totally unforgivable.
Guys a total liability at the Best of times with his shocking ability to pass to the opposition, or being caught in possession but I never thought he would just give up on the field and stand still when he should be chasing back after the attacker who ran on to score.

Disgracefull, no defending him this week. Fred should be fined a weeks wages Along with a few others.

 

[jesperjaap]

First not slating RR, just saying some people think the likes of Harry being picked are based on them.

Im not black and white like some fans, things rarely are. As you probably gathered, I like Fred but I like Utd more. Do I want us challenging again, of course but I don’t think Fred is the problem. I might be wrong but I don’t think the club thinks Fred or Scott are the problem either, they are squad players playing to their ceiling 6/10 at best giving 100%.

My issue is you don’t need a Scott or Fred starting if our so called elite players are playing to their ceiling. We should be getting out of Pogs and Bruno consistently 8/10. Can you imagine if we had the consistency from them both, the skill plus the 100% work rate , well that’s what City and Liverpool get ever game from their elite players. If we had that both ends of the pitch, the 3rd cog would be less of an issue and a easier fix.

Well I dont disagree with that at all....but I still go to the point that is important, Fred cost £53m, that is a lot of money for someone who is a 6/10 squad player

 

[Litch]

Seeing as it's a fred thread, I'm commenting on an aspect of his play, decision making.

And…..?

 

[arnie_ni]

And…..?

What do you mean and? Youve jumped in here having a go at posters for commenting on aspects on Fred's play

 

[GL21]

Fred is pathetic. Can't pass, no positional sense of awareness, needs a touch before he can adjust his brain where he's going next, defensively as strong as toilet paper, weak as a kitten physically. He's a big part of the huge problem we have. Guy takes a stroke at the thought of forward risqué passes but makes it ok by putting his apologetic hand in the air. fecking useless

 

[Litch]

You're guessing it all wrong then. You have no idea what I did or didn't post but still came up with your own conclusion. Whether we win or lose some games, I never lose sight of the bigger pictures and it's that Fred (just like many others, Bruno included) isn't good enough to get Man Utd to where it needs to be. Get off your high horse

Its called an opinion, I’ll leave the armchair or plastic psychology to you. I’ll agree Fred isn’t good enough to get where we needs to be but he never was the signing to do that anyway. He doesn’t pick himself so you are probably better off posting on RR thread why he continues to.

 

[Litch]

What do you mean and? Youve jumped in here having a go at posters for commenting on aspects on Fred's play
[/

Sorry, I meant so what. I posted that picking out a back pass to a GK in my opinion is ridiculous when I’m sure there’s a million other things people could find to moan about.

 

[Litch]

Well I dont disagree with that at all....but I still go to the point that is important, Fred cost £53m, that is a lot of money for someone who is a 6/10 squad player

Wasnt worth 50m, that’s for certain but look at what other teams were paying pre COVID in that inflated market. How much did Arsenal pay for Pepe and they weren’t alone. Didn’t Chelsea pay 80m for a GK? Fred was 25m at best in todays market but that said, when did what you pay for players ever equate to how they well they play anyway. In fact its unusual when it does.
Like said, good enough to where we want to be, probably not but if that’s the barometer then who is. Even on our squads best day, they don’t get into Liverpool or City’s 11 on theirs.

 

[kouroux]

Its called an opinion, I’ll leave the armchair or plastic psychology to you. I’ll agree Fred isn’t good enough to get where we needs to be but he never was the signing to do that anyway. He doesn’t pick himself so you are probably better off posting on RR thread why he continues to.

Just as what I said is called an opinion and I'll post what I want about Fred in this thread as long as back I don't break any rules.
If you don't like it, you can always ignore it . It's a bit rich acting like this ("this an opinion" ) when you're the one who started quoting me and displaying your clear disagreement

 

[jesperjaap]

Wasnt worth 50m, that’s for certain but look at what other teams were paying pre COVID in that inflated market. How much did Arsenal pay for Pepe and they weren’t alone. Didn’t Chelsea pay 80m for a GK? Fred was 25m at best in todays market but that said, when did what you pay for players ever equate to how they well they play anyway. In fact its unusual when it does.
Like said, good enough to where we want to be, probably not but if that’s the barometer then who is. Even on our squads best day, they don’t get into Liverpool or City’s 11 on theirs.

Yes but you are comparing his fee to that of signings for other clubs who have been utter flops and are not playing, our flop is and you say is good enough for where we want to be, that says it all

 

[Litch]

Just as what I said is called an opinion and I'll post what I want about Fred in this thread as long as back I don't break any rules.
If you don't like it, you can always ignore it . It's a bit rich acting like this ("this an opinion" ) when you're the one who started quoting me and displaying your clear disagreement

Yep it’s an opinion, nothing rich in the fact that anyone has to agree with it and given it’s a public forum, your defiant I’ll post anything, is pretty much what happens on them anyway. Yep, quoting people is pretty much what happens on forums too when post stuff. Like said, I’ll leave your armchair analyst with you, opinions or not, Fred is shit, should not back to DDG, your global syndrome theory etc.

Fred still plays…..

 

[kouroux]

Yep it’s an opinion, nothing rich in the fact that anyone has to agree with it and given it’s a public forum, your defiant I’ll post anything, is pretty much what happens on them anyway. Yep, quoting people is pretty much what happens on forums too when post stuff. Like said, I’ll leave your armchair analyst with you, opinions or not, Fred is shit, should not back to DDG, your global syndrome theory etc.

Fred still plays…..

And I'll leave you armchair analyze my posts till your heart's content. Fred plays but he's not good enough, hasn't been and never will be. Deal with it or not.

 

[Lay]

Probably my favourite player at the club but he’s miles off being good enough.

 

[Litch]

Yes but you are comparing his fee to that of signings for other clubs who have been utter flops and are not playing, our flop is and you say is good enough for where we want to be, that says it all

But that’s on the basis that we all agree he is a ‘flop’, my point is on the basis of what is the measure? If people are going to use the double or treble winning team as the barometer, then they are all flops. There is a strong possibility that anyone we sign will be a flop too.
I like Fred but I’m not naive, been watching Utd since the 70’s. He is not good enough in my opinion but equally, he’s not has bad as people make out either. He was never signed to make the difference and because other players than were haven’t, the likes of Scott and Fred are playing when they shouldn’t be. That’s not unusual, it’s happening all in lots of positions which is the problem.

 

[Litch]

And I'll leave you armchair analyze my posts till your heart's content. Fred plays but he's not good enough, hasn't been and never will be. Deal with it or not.

Deal with it? I know he’s not good enough but I’m also accepting that if I apply the same measure, then who is. Like said 45 years of watching Utd, my favourite players haven’t always been good enough. The teams always had even starters that fans have thought are not good enough, it’s nothing new.

 

[kouroux]

Deal with it? I know he’s not good enough but I’m also accepting that if I apply the same measure, then who is. Like said 45 years of watching Utd, my favourite players haven’t always been good enough. The teams always had even starters that fans have thought are not good enough, it’s nothing new.

All is good then.

 

[jesperjaap]

But that’s on the basis that we all agree he is a ‘flop’, my point is on the basis of what is the measure? If people are going to use the double or treble winning team as the barometer, then they are all flops. There is a strong possibility that anyone we sign will be a flop too.
I like Fred but I’m not naive, been watching Utd since the 70’s. He is not good enough in my opinion but equally, he’s not has bad as people make out either. He was never signed to make the difference and because other players than were haven’t, the likes of Scott and Fred are playing when they shouldn’t be. That’s not unusual, it’s happening all in lots of positions which is the problem.

I appreciate your point that its the big players failing that is why some possible squad players ar eplaying more often that maybe shouldnt and wouldnt be if th ebig names perform. But come on, he was a £53m signing, just because he wasnt a huge name, he was the supposed midfield signing needed like two are now.

£53m, I know transfer fees go up, but he is the 8th most expensive signing we have ever made and bar Martial and maybe Fernandes, all the other names were big names domestically or in Europe. I understand a lot of your points even if I dont agree, but come on, lets not make out Fred was a squad signing just because he hasnt been very good, nobody spends that money to improve there squad not PSG or CIty, sorry but that part of your point with Fred directly is nonsense

 

[Isotope]

Brazilian Neeskens