That might be because this is the FRED performances thread.
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
A fact that escapes many of the regulars in here.
Yeah I think given the nature of Leicesters title win being a bit of a fluke season. You could probably include half their side in that category.
Fred is a good player, nothing more, nothing less. Its not his fault he is starting for Manchester United.
That’s debatable but also non important, they should not start regardless.
Wes Morgan was a better CB than our excuse of a midfielder at being a CM.
But, but ‘He starts for Brazil’. . .
The man cost over £50mil, judge him as such. Up the with Maguire in terms of money worst spent.
The man cost over £50mil, judge him as such. Up the with Maguire in terms of money worst spent.
Did I actually read in this thread that Fred would struggle in the Championship? 
If we get a new manager this season, Fred will still be a starter. If Matic could play every game, he would already be doing so. VDB is not a #6. I don't care what he says. He will say anything to get game time. We have seen McT there and he is worse than Fred.
I still believe that playing midfield is very difficult in this team. We were chasing shadows all over the pitch. Put any other option we have in there. The result is still the same. Probably worse, actually. We lose to them all over the field, and off it.
If we get a new manager this season, Fred will still be a starter. If Matic could play every game, he would already be doing so. VDB is not a #6. I don't care what he says. He will say anything to get game time. We have seen McT there and he is worse than Fred.
I still believe that playing midfield is very difficult in this team. We were chasing shadows all over the pitch. Put any other option we have in there. The result is still the same. Probably worse, actually. We lose to them all over the field, and off it.
When a player struggles to control a pass under pressure and constantly misplaces simple passes to team mates, he has no right whatsoever to be playing midfield for any top side in the league. It’s got nothing to do with anything else other than very limited ability with an added mix of liability. It wouldn’t be as big a problem if he was a very basic player and did sideways passes like a previous Tom Cleverley. But the fact he constantly produces errors which lead to attacks on our goal is unforgivable.Did I actually read in this thread that Fred would struggle in the Championship?
If we get a new manager this season, Fred will still be a starter. If Matic could play every game, he would already be doing so. VDB is not a #6. I don't care what he says. He will say anything to get game time. We have seen McT there and he is worse than Fred.
I still believe that playing midfield is very difficult in this team. We were chasing shadows all over the pitch. Put any other option we have in there. The result is still the same. Probably worse, actually. We lose to them all over the field, and off it.
Agreed. Fred can play basic football in a specific system. What he can't play, is midfield in our team. He's abject.
And in the Championship he would get clattered on top of being pressed. We've seen how lightweight he is and how easily he is brushed off. In the Championship he'd get swatted around like a beach ball.
I still would like to see fred under a good forward thinking manager, this is the player that was wanted by pep who has rarely signed a dud in the past 3 or 4 seasons and he plays well for brazil as a 1st team player for them and looked a very good player for shakhtar before joining us.
Since joining united he had to contend with being frozen out by Mourinho and then played under a inferior version of mourinho in ole who is equally as pragmatic despite how much he bangs on about the united way and is technically and tactically I inept and hasn't improved a player since being at the club
Since joining united he had to contend with being frozen out by Mourinho and then played under a inferior version of mourinho in ole who is equally as pragmatic despite how much he bangs on about the united way and is technically and tactically I inept and hasn't improved a player since being at the club
Fred would be in team of the season conversations playing for Klopp or Pep.
Only if the team was playing in the championship
You don't even need to include his price tag, for a team who want to compete at the top of the league he just hasn't been good enough.
I mean so have many others in the team, We were for sure bent over paying 50mil for him although I’m sure it was actually more like 37mil. That 50 mil is held up there like the mythical CAF figure of Martials wage being 250k a week.
However I’d hate to see where we were without him as we are an awful team and where many might not think he’s great moving the ball forward he does a great job of making life difficult for teams and until we actually learn how to play football and have a plan he is unfortunately needed.
i had to laugh. Good one and spot on too.
I don't we'd be worse off. He does have good games but overall he's an accident waiting to happen. He made the same sort of mistakes even when he had his best run of form at the club, it's just part of who he is.
A new coach might change things for him but I'm not convinced.
Ole will be sacked, absolutely no doubt. Will be interesting whoever replaces him and let's see what happens with Fred. Dont be surprised if he is starting for that new manager too. There is a narrative about Fred that's absolute nonsense. Was the same with Rom as it is with Pogs but amazingly for a guy with no first touch, someone who is lazy and Fred who can't pass....all 3 start and play well for the top international sides in the world. Sometimes the issues are closer to home. Lingard most didn't rate, goes to West Ham and ends the season as one of the best players in the league. Won't be long before Bruno, Harry, Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood are in the same conversation as Martial and Donny, not starting or even picked for there respective international teams.
The issues are bigger than Fred and there is an increasing list of 'not good enough' for Utd, when the issues are probably more about Utd.
The issues are bigger than Fred and there is an increasing list of 'not good enough' for Utd, when the issues are probably more about Utd.
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I agree 100%. Fred does somethings really well, esp. when you check out his stats. Pressing, interception, tackling. Somethings, he is poor at and that gets exposed at times. Why? it is because he is played in a role that does not suit him. He is not a DM. He is a box to box who has some great defensive attributes. He plays next to Casemiro for Brazil.
This whole narrative of Fred being poor is false, not saying we don't need an upgrade on him. A lot of times he is put into situations for e.g. Mctominay does not make himself available for passes and he ends up making a risky pass or loses the ball due to pressure
Maguire and Sanchez were also wanted by Pep.
Morgan was better CB than the fraud we call a captain as well. I'm convinced Fred will be brilliant under a manager who actually knows what they're doing. His form for Brazil has been really good as well, he's not alien to showing his array of talent under a proper setup.
That is maybe true, but not the topic and this is the Fred thread. And how are you so convinced that he will be brilliant under a manager who actually knows what they're doing? I am sure that he will be of better use, but the big issue is that his skill set is so appallingly limited that those uses are far away from him being brilliant. A midfielder who is so shit on the ball, average at best in his defensive input can be brilliant for Manchester United? I really can't see a manager in the world of football that could bring that from Fred.
And this constant mentioning of his Brazil form, I tried looking more into it, and what I found is that he played something like 753 minutes since 2019, beaten teams like Peru, Chile, Venezuela, Colombia and Uruguay, lost the final to Argentina, and it's very small example of football actually. He has faced players like Lerma and Barios who are championship players to be honest.
His form is good for Brazil because of the style of the opposition. I have watched a fair few of the Brazil internationals over the last 12 months and not only is the quality of the games poor but Fred has so much more time on the ball. The tempo of the Premiere League is something he is in record as saying he struggled with...imo he still struggles so when he plays better in Brazil’s midfield it’s no surprise. He is is simply under less pressure on the ball.
Are you implying they're duds?
This post implies that Fred hasn't exhibited that he can handle the tempo of the PL, and that is far from the truth. Fred is an all action player as you know, with the most expansive heatmaps per game among our CMs.
Sky Sports article on Fred's improvement
When Fred won United player of the month for the first time in Feb of 2020 he shined in key games that kept us in the hunt in the top four race.
He was arguably MOTM In back to back games against Spurs and City back in 2019. He also exhibited a marked improvement in form from 2018/19 to 2019/20 when he even became a fan favorite and was individually outperforming Kante over at Chelsea. How has he not adapted to this league?
Games are poor due to rivaltry and fear of not going to the world. NTs have no training time and are there only to get points. You are overrating the level of the EPL and confounding entertainment with quality. There are two great sides in the league.
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Nowhere near good enough consistently for this level and I'm a fan of Maguire.
I think Fred is obviously mistaken prone - but ultimately his best performances for us have come under a manager that is individualistic in his gameplan.
Sure maybe Fred is not good enough for every single one of our games as a starting player but you see players like Oxelade Chamberlain as CM squad players for Liverpool, Naby Keita (cost 52 million) hardly wows me for a player that would be bossing it under Ole either, nor Saul Niguez, Barkley or RLC at Chelsea.
I think he is good enough for our squad of 26 players.
What we need is to get some better midfield players so players like Fred or Mctominay should fall in to some sense of status - like the defenders did when Bailly and Lindelof went from starters to our 3rd and 4th defenders in the squad. Same with our forward line with players like Mata, Martial, James being seen less and less or being sold.
Sure maybe Fred is not good enough for every single one of our games as a starting player but you see players like Oxelade Chamberlain as CM squad players for Liverpool, Naby Keita (cost 52 million) hardly wows me for a player that would be bossing it under Ole either, nor Saul Niguez, Barkley or RLC at Chelsea.
I think he is good enough for our squad of 26 players.
What we need is to get some better midfield players so players like Fred or Mctominay should fall in to some sense of status - like the defenders did when Bailly and Lindelof went from starters to our 3rd and 4th defenders in the squad. Same with our forward line with players like Mata, Martial, James being seen less and less or being sold.
That's quite the 180. Seems like you have an agenda:
To be fair quite a lot of people on here only seem to rate a player's ability based solely on their last 3-5 games. If they have two good games they're amazing, two bad games and they're shit.
That's how we go from having discussions in the summer asking if we have the best defence in the league to apparently needing the whole defence replaced because they're all shit now.
The issue is that if we have players who arent good enough to start at 28 years old in their prime years taking up backup and sub spots, we're not going to have spots to develop young players. If you're going to have someone who isnt good enough there, you want it to be someone you believe can eventually be good enough. Not someone who should have been good enough but has proven otherwise
Still the best player we have for the pivot, which tells you everything you need to know about how shite our midfield is.
The one area I’m disappointed Ole didn’t address as a primary concern in his rebuild, I think he invested too much confidence in an up and coming McTominay and the likes of an over-the-hill Matic.
I’d sell every single one of them in exchange for one top level DM. All of them.
The one area I’m disappointed Ole didn’t address as a primary concern in his rebuild, I think he invested too much confidence in an up and coming McTominay and the likes of an over-the-hill Matic.
I’d sell every single one of them in exchange for one top level DM. All of them.
Thats why I wouldnt call him a dud, but if you can have such poor form each season, and mainly during big matches as well, that's a huge problem and liability. He was great at the Euro's, one of the best defenders there. However his worst is absolutely terrible and has happened far too far. No top club would go for that. Exactly why I used the word consistently, but I guess you thought you did something there.
It's easy.
He shouldn't be receiving passes under pressure in dangerous positions so often, because whoever passes to him should have better options.
When he does receive the ball in difficult positions, he should have a one touch pass available or at worst a control touch and then a passing option. He should not have to hold the ball surrounded by opposition players.
If he (or any player, as it happens so often) loses the ball taking a risk in the opposing half, it should not result in a counter attack and a shot on our own goal.
Any competent manager would address all these things and Fred would be a totally different player. He's not going to be the Roy Keane Ole is looking for who can hold the midfield together on their own, but that player doesn't exist anymore. Put Roy Keane himself in this team and he would struggle. In a functioning system Fred will be perfectly fine as a squad player at the very minimum.
Yeah sure I cant doubt that but ultimately like it or not, good or bad - Fred is 'currently' one of the best defensive sided midfielders we have. That has to change before we chuck him out don't we? Or do we chuck him out first with the hope of replacing after because that doesn't exactly work all the time either. Maybe it's the right thing to do but I'm not sure.
You could look a little bit deeper and see the differences between Matic (shielding/ Anchorman type player), Mctominay (to some a box to box player) and Fred (and energetic pressing type player ie our below par version of Kante) - chucking Fred out though just to replace him with someone like Garner/Galbraith for example just leaves us with a new young midfielder with a different style(ie deep lying playmaker); doesn't exactly leave us with an energetic pressing midfielder does it?
Isn't that tactically an important player to have a bit more these days? Someone who can get up close and personal from midfield?
I think all we need is the midfield to be upgraded to drop some players to the bench more or even sell them; if that's Fred then so be it. If Fred is going to go then we need a good pressing tackling CM player like Tchouameni or someone from our young lot. Matic is older every second and we need a shielding player, looks like we targeted Rice at one point for that etc.
The next manager needs to improve our midfield. It's the position that has been largely untouched and has 4 Mourinho players still in Matic, Pogba, Fred and Mctominay.
I say this because I don't think Ole is a good manager - but I do think he helped improve our front line and defensive line in terms of some better players a bit (not perfect at all) and it got players like Bailly and Martial on the bench and players like Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo and Cavani starting.
That didn't happen in midfield with players like Fred and Mctominay getting put in their place in the squad.
As someone who goes to quite a few championship games he honestly would. Unless they're really quick on their feet, physically smaller players are always going to have a hard time in that league, especially in midfield. I don't believe Fred has the ability to overcome that obstacle, even if he might have better attributes than most of the other players in the league. He gets bullied off the ball and into mistakes constantly, do you think he'd do better in a league where more physicality is allowed?Did I actually read in this thread that Fred would struggle in the Championship?
Look at Mata, at one time he was a top class player in the Prem, now his pace has dipped just a little and it's enough that he's basically useless because he can't find a way to overcome his physical disadvantage, and that's in a league where players like him are better protected (and for the record I love Mata and wish we'd see more of him, but I understand why we don't).
I know you didn't mean his size and were more referring to his ability, but when you laugh at someone's opinion you better make sure yours holds water too.
That my friend is one of the most baffling sentences I've read for some time on here. A Manchester United CM should not receive passes under pressure? Who should receive those passes when top oppositions press us then? De Gea? Maguire and Lindelof? Maybe I get it all wrong in this footballing stuff, but that is unacceptable for a Manchester United midfielder. And when you have 2 of those in the middle of the team, how can you expect to play football as a Manchester United team i fail to understand.
Yes, a Manchester United midfielder should not receive the ball in a dangerous position when surrounded by opponents. Beating a press is not just about being good at receiving the ball under pressure, its about finding space to receive the ball, and then having an immediate pass available. Without all three of those things mistakes are inevitable.
Remember the Leicester game below. Now I'm not saying Fred didn't feck up here, but what on earth was Maguire passing it to him for? Why not Shaw or Lindelof? Why not somebody further up the field? Where is Matic? Why was De Gea caught on his heels? Fred is literally the last player on the pitch who should be receiving that ball in that position. He's running back facing his own goal, he's got players on 3 sides, and nobody is moving to give him an option.
We do this ALL the time. We could have Xavi in our team, put him in those situations enough times and eventually he will make a mistake.
Look I just clicked on that video and bang, what you see? An appalling bit of football play by any footballer, never mind a Manchester United center midfielder. Fred follows that up by that mistake for the goal, and I am not saying that Maguire shouldn't know better than passing to his shit midfielder knowing how limited he is, but it really doesn't need much explanation. The bare minimum for a midfielder is not there imo, and that's before getting to how poorly coached as a team we are.
In that video, you see Fred just standing there for a few seconds, not making himself available for a pass, then he comes forward, bad control, even worse simple pass and you have everything that is wrong in one instance, bad coaching, and a horrendous footballer. passing it to Telles or Matic or Lindelof is part of the problem that we usually have, pass to the safest option, no idea, back and forth shit and 5 passes into we are still at the same stage. The idea from Maguire is the right one imo, execution and coaching is bad.
You also mention DDG while I think it's Hendo tbf, and I really don't see a point in going the extra mile to try and overanalyze a piece of play that is unfecking acceptable for the level we should aspire. And please don't mention Xavi while trying to excuse such an appalling close control and simple 5m pass to the GK. You just can't be a midfielder for Manchester United if the team can no rely on you making those those simple things, just can't.
If that player does not get near enough close and personal in midfield maybe it's time we forget about the idea and just play someone who can contribute in attack. I mean we are leaking goals and chances on a horrendous level, with or without Fred ( the same refers to McT) Maybe it's time to feck them both off, they contribute feck all. Play all out attack until we get some proper CM who can contribute.
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