True enough
Final | Spain vs England
- Thread starter top1whoisman
- Start date
I genuinely think England will win a major tournament sooner or later with this crop of players barring some of the old guards (only to be followed by another drought that could last a lifetime). This crop is very talented, has more than enough latter-stage tournament experience and with the right managerial appointment, assuming Southgate goes, more than capable of getting across the line at least once. Biggest worry if I were an England fan is for the FA to take the 'safe' option by hiring someone in the mould of Southgate on board.
If we’d have played France we would probably have been outwitted by a moment of genius from them, guaranteed the ending would have been a lot closer.
England were good the first 45 minutes because Koeman set up the starting eleven up wrong. Koeman repaired it and after that we (Dutch) were slightly better without creating much.
I put so many posters on ignore last night
Italy game....
. It will haunt me.Yeah, i really don't get this gloating. I understand sentiment in some way because English media and pundits especially are cocky as feck.
But on the other hand; how can you truly support English club while being against that nation? It doesn't make any sense.
Have to say, that Zubimendi came on for Spain’s best player at half time and pretty much didn’t miss a beat. Not an option we could be looking at?
He looked great, thought the same myself but think he would cost quite a bit probably.
I put so many posters on ignore last night
Got to laugh at the Scottish fans giving it large across social media when Clarke made Southgate look like peak Pep.
60m euro buyout clause.
Clarke is a shit Southgate which is saying something.
Because club and country are completely different, it's not a difficult concept. You're not supporting a team because they're English necessarily. But there are several United players in the team. I'm happy Argentina do well as they have a couple of United players in there.Italy game....
Yeah, i really don't get this gloating. I understand sentiment in some way because English media and pundits especially are cocky as feck.
But on the other hand; how can you truly support English club while being against that nation? It doesn't make any sense.
Didn't know, even before the tournament he was rated highly. We should be all over him in that case.
He has a €60m release clause. Fantastic player who would be brilliant in the Premier League, and only 25 years old too. Should definitely try to get him and see if he is interested. If not, we move on to the next target but he should be our priority number one when it comes to midfielders.
Dont understand this logic.Italy game....
Yeah, i really don't get this gloating. I understand sentiment in some way because English media and pundits especially are cocky as feck.
But on the other hand; how can you truly support English club while being against that nation? It doesn't make any sense.
I'm not against England mind you, previously didnt like the team cause cause of the media pumping and gloating but realized its all due to everybody being able to read english media and social networks cause of the universal language so it seemed they're more cocky then the rest. But other nations' media are the same or worse, Croatian being one.
But on the other hand being an United supporter doesn't mean you should be England fan too. Being against England team doesnt mean you're against English nation.. And it doesnt nor shouldn't take anything away from supporting United. Even among English United fans there are a lot of people who dont care about international football nor England team.
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They and France were in the Y tier of the tournament - Y you play so crap with all that talent on the pitch
They were the worst team at the Euros.
Nah. I would not have expected us (England) to beat France or Germany. Germany probably played the best football aside from Spain, but Spain were just far better than everyone else and deserved winners.
I don’t think anyone on here was cocky in the slightest, we all recognised the limitations that Southgate imposes on us.Italy game....
Yeah, i really don't get this gloating. I understand sentiment in some way because English media and pundits especially are cocky as feck.
But on the other hand; how can you truly support English club while being against that nation? It doesn't make any sense.
I’m sure other country’s media are also nationalistic before it comes to the latter stages of a big tournament as well.
Each to their own I guess.
Southgate is too conservative and we won't get any better with him as manager but.... in this tournament too many of our top players didn't really perform.
Kane stunk throughout the whole tournament. Foden only really shone against the Netherlands (and even that was limited to one half). Bellingham scored a wonder goal but then was disappointing and seemed to enjoy playing to the cameras ratgher than for his teammates.
Kane stunk throughout the whole tournament. Foden only really shone against the Netherlands (and even that was limited to one half). Bellingham scored a wonder goal but then was disappointing and seemed to enjoy playing to the cameras ratgher than for his teammates.
yep, and the worst team at the tournament is the last team to beat Spain in a competitive game. Funny game football!
Pretty sure that both the English and French FAs will make a change now. The best teams play on the front foot - England and France both have the players to be more proactive (indeed this is how most of their players play at club level). They each need new managers.
Kane, Foden and Bellingham were never going to fit into his system together.
Additionally, Kane could have been easily replaced by Watkins or Toney, and Foden/Bellingham by Palmer, Gordon, Eze or Bowen.
Spain were easily the best team in the tournament… so it was always gonna be a big ask.
But the main issue for me, again like most tournaments with England, came from picking names before systems.
It was blatantly obvious from half time of the first game that Kane, Foden, and Bellingham didn’t work. They all want to occupy the same areas of the pitch, and to get them in the same lineup we had to sacrifice one of our more obvious stylistic strengths. That being a fast, direct wide left player to counter balance Saka on the right.
There is room for 2 of the 3. Either Kane with a single 10, and pace breaking the lines either side of him. Or if you want to play Jude and Foden, you have to play a 9 who will run in behind and stretch play, to create the room in which they can operate.
The fact that all 3 started every game, especially with the very obvious fitness/fatigue issues, just demonstrated Southgate falling into the same traps as all those who proceeded him.
Choose a system. Identify the criteria of player you want for each position. Choose the player who most obviously meets that criteria… it shouldn’t be so bloody complicated.
But the main issue for me, again like most tournaments with England, came from picking names before systems.
It was blatantly obvious from half time of the first game that Kane, Foden, and Bellingham didn’t work. They all want to occupy the same areas of the pitch, and to get them in the same lineup we had to sacrifice one of our more obvious stylistic strengths. That being a fast, direct wide left player to counter balance Saka on the right.
There is room for 2 of the 3. Either Kane with a single 10, and pace breaking the lines either side of him. Or if you want to play Jude and Foden, you have to play a 9 who will run in behind and stretch play, to create the room in which they can operate.
The fact that all 3 started every game, especially with the very obvious fitness/fatigue issues, just demonstrated Southgate falling into the same traps as all those who proceeded him.
Choose a system. Identify the criteria of player you want for each position. Choose the player who most obviously meets that criteria… it shouldn’t be so bloody complicated.
There's also the consideration that Saka only works well on the right wing on a 4-3-3 system.
The big difference is we know we are shite but Englands fans think they are gods gift to football
Funny that when England fans have been slagging the team and manager off more than anyone since the beginning of the tournament. Personally this was the lowest expectation I had for a tournament considering the manager we had.
Or a 4231. I think he would have slotted into the Spain team as a replacement for Yamal pretty seamlessly.
I'm really glad Spain proved that you can play a high press in that shape. With proper wingers, and overlapping fullbacks, and two proper pivot midfielders. I am so convinced it is the style Utd should be playing. None of this Pep wannabe, inverted FB/midfielder stuff.
- Hojlund/Zirkzee in the Morata role
- Bruno/Mount/Zirkzee in the Olmo role
- Rashford/Garnacho/Sancho in the Williams role
- Garnacho/Sancho/Antony in the Yamal role
- Shaw and Dalot properly overlapping
- Mainoo + 1 (ideally someone new... (Zubimendi or Wharton please!!)) in the double pivot
Make it happen Erik!!!
I don't see how anybody sensible can think that. They almost went out multiple times to poor teams.They were comprehensively outplayed and lost to the first good team they played. Your take is delusional. The only positive is that we have some good players.
Sticking with Kane was his biggest mistake.
Kane was strolling about against Italy thinking he needs to conserve energy for 120 min to take the penalty.
Same thing more or less against Spain except now he run to midfield to help out and also thinking of conserving energy for extra time.
He should have gone all out for both matches until he can't run anymore and get replaced by Watkins. To be fair against Spain, Kane was subbed out early so England already recognized this issue that Kane can't play for long anymore.
Kane was strolling about against Italy thinking he needs to conserve energy for 120 min to take the penalty.
Same thing more or less against Spain except now he run to midfield to help out and also thinking of conserving energy for extra time.
He should have gone all out for both matches until he can't run anymore and get replaced by Watkins. To be fair against Spain, Kane was subbed out early so England already recognized this issue that Kane can't play for long anymore.
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Southgate had Gallagher and Trippier ready to come on in the 85th minute. Then when Spain scored it suddenly changed to Toney.
That's all you need to know about him and how he reacts in game. He was pretty much playing for penalties before extra time even started.
Gordon played 5 minutes in the entire tournament when his second half of the season was one of the most inform English players and actually in an area of the pitch which was a real weakness.
I think that's been a real problem for England in last 20 years, not trusting in form players because they don't play in the CL.
Watkins, Palmer, Konsa, Gordon, Eze all had fantastic seasons last year in the prem. One start in this tournament between them and Konsa wouldn't have got that if Guehi hadn't picked up a suspension.
Surely the issue is that there aren't many options to replace him assuming we choose an English man. When you look at the number of quality Spanish coaches around it really is night and day
Would you have put De la Fuente up there as one of the top quality coaches?
Or Scaloni at Argentina?
I think international football is a different beast and you can't necessarily go by club achievements for a manager.
These are knockout tournaments, where managers only have a few weeks with their players, so you're not going to see managers revolutionising the way their nation plays. At most, they're building on the styles played at club levels.
Southgate has been great at fostering a team spirit, but his weakness is that he's too cautious and isn't bold enough. I don't think you need to be English Pep to improve in those areas.
Or in Southgate's case (RE: the bold), doing something very different to what they do at club level.
International managers need strength in their convictions and the ability to react quickly to what's unfolding in front of them. These are perhaps Southgate's two biggest weaknesses.
Decided to pick a squad that left out some of his "favourites" but then didn't trust the players he'd replaced them with, and was once again caught sitting on his hands not changing anything when even Stevie Wonder could see how the game was going.
No scapegoat this time?
That would be Germany.
Anyone thinking that England under Southgate was one of the better teams of the Euros is either blind or has a serious bias.
Meh. Even if true it wouldn’t explain the technical superiority as a team Spain have. Passes to the space not the man, triangulating, collective possession etc
We lost because Southgate does not believe in himself or his team.
I am British but not English so was happy to support England all the way. Naturally I was disappointed in the overall result.
I am not subjected to the British press and can't really understand the hype about a "golden generation". England has a few good players and some may even be approaching world class. If only some players had brought their club form and some of the form players had seen more game time.
Pickford and the back four are adequate without being spectacular. Shaw was the best of the bunch although I'm still not sure how he got on the plane to play one and a half games. Rice was disappointing. Mainoo will be in trouble for defying the team ethic - taking the ball, turning and running forward - I'm not sure he was supposed to do that!! My local pundits thought that England might target Cucurella as Saka had done well against him in the EPL. Every time Saka had the ball he was swarmed by three or four Spanish players - otherwise throughout the tournament he hadn't done too badly. Foden obviously left his boots, his brain and his heart in Manchester. I don't get to watch Kane and Bellingham too much but obviously they weren't living up to the hype - very disappointing.
I didn't see anyone in the English team who could grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take control.
Finally - the manager is uninspiring and unimaginative. Time to move on - just hopefully not to OT!
I am not subjected to the British press and can't really understand the hype about a "golden generation". England has a few good players and some may even be approaching world class. If only some players had brought their club form and some of the form players had seen more game time.
Pickford and the back four are adequate without being spectacular. Shaw was the best of the bunch although I'm still not sure how he got on the plane to play one and a half games. Rice was disappointing. Mainoo will be in trouble for defying the team ethic - taking the ball, turning and running forward - I'm not sure he was supposed to do that!! My local pundits thought that England might target Cucurella as Saka had done well against him in the EPL. Every time Saka had the ball he was swarmed by three or four Spanish players - otherwise throughout the tournament he hadn't done too badly. Foden obviously left his boots, his brain and his heart in Manchester. I don't get to watch Kane and Bellingham too much but obviously they weren't living up to the hype - very disappointing.
I didn't see anyone in the English team who could grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take control.
Finally - the manager is uninspiring and unimaginative. Time to move on - just hopefully not to OT!