You make it sound like a park player. He'd walk into your side, take the captaincy off Fabregas and improve your soft centre infinitely.
Ferdinand or Vidic in their pomp
- Thread starter vuc
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You make it sound like a park player. He'd walk into your side, take the captaincy off Fabregas and improve your soft centre infinitely.
Ferdinand. However, you need a player like Vidic to get the best out of Rio.
Of course it impacts the stats.
Neither man is responsible solely for our form.
It may very well be possible that Rio has missed some of our major dips in form while he was out.
The other side of the coin is, how much do you want to credit the absence of Rio with those potential slips in form?
Comparing two players like that when one has been out frequently and for long periods of time isn't really a fair way to measure them.
You don't? 4 PL titles and one CL title, part of the most dominant defensive duo of the last 20 years.. Part of a National Team that conceded 1 goal in the qualifying campaign of WC 2006. Vidic has been at the top of his game for 4 seasons, that consistency will ensure him go down as one of the best of his generation.
Well you've just made a mistake of thinking that Vidic is just blood and thunder. I can't take your opinion on Vidic seriously at all. Vidic makes more interceptions and clearances than any defender. Why does he need to be quiet? He is a dominant, clear the threat before it becomes a threat defender.
I appreciate you (and majority) prefer Rio, but it's never by 'some distance'. How anyone can say that I don't know. That makes Vidic look like a pub player in comparison, or Rio the best defender that lived. Neither is true.
Sure as a partnership they are the best, but this is not about their partnership. Vidic does the same though, with any partner next to him.. even Rio. It's not coincidence Rio's best form has come post Vidic is there?
Wenger would sell his left nut to have Vidic as part of his defence
It can do, but not all the time. For all the love that Nesta gets here, one of his biggest attributes is that he is incredible in the slide tackle. Does that mean his positioning is shit? I think you will find that Vidic makes less slide tackles than people think.
That's a good point. Everyone makes mistakes.
I know you know that Vida is more than just a heading machine, but Vidic has been stuck with plenty of partners in the past and dealt well with it. Obviously that is never going to be as good as Rio next to him or vice-versa.
comic. Vidic doesn't really get beat by pace often, (he does, but it's rare) part of the reason is because his positioning is so good. I don't think you watch him often at all, which is funny because he has one of his best records against Arsenal.Both outstanding defenders, and with their own set of strengths, but if I had to choose one in their prime, I'd go with Rio.
If my team however already had a Rio, I wouldn't go for a 2nd Rio, I'd go for Vidic...what a pairing.
Shame Rio has lost so much time due to injury, the public at large have forgotten what a pairing they were when both are fit and in form
If my team however already had a Rio, I wouldn't go for a 2nd Rio, I'd go for Vidic...what a pairing.
Shame Rio has lost so much time due to injury, the public at large have forgotten what a pairing they were when both are fit and in form
I knew Rio would be the more popular choice but I thought it may have been closer. I think its close and if pushed would take Vidic over Rio
So there
So there
Has vuc weighed in yet?
The funny thing is, he might actually feel the same way the peterstorey does. They both place too much importance on technical ability and too little on bravery, desire and commitment.
Which is as big a factor as any when it comes to Arsenal's perennial underachievement.
Vidic has technical ability though. Has a good passing range, and can pass with both feet. His touch isn't like Rio's nor is his dribbling out of defence, but he is not a hatchet man who lumps it forward.
Don't think this debate is that clearcut at all. Obviously Rio walking out of defence with the ball looks nice but I think we're overemphasizing the stylish aspects of Rio's game and underrating the 'blood and thunder' style of Vidic.
Anyway he's not some sort of a white Chris Samba who can only hoof it out. He's equally adept with both feet and has a decent passing range. Plus I think he's more compatible to play with other defenders. Vidic + Evans/Smalling > Rio + Evans/Smalling
Interestingly, no one has mentioned the 5-6 goals a season Vidic can chip in with which is a great quality for a defender.
Anyway he's not some sort of a white Chris Samba who can only hoof it out. He's equally adept with both feet and has a decent passing range. Plus I think he's more compatible to play with other defenders. Vidic + Evans/Smalling > Rio + Evans/Smalling
Interestingly, no one has mentioned the 5-6 goals a season Vidic can chip in with which is a great quality for a defender.
For all talk of Rio being the organizer or leader, it was Vidic whose arrival finally sorted our defense out. Before that we would often get a proper schooling from physically imposing strikers who would bully our centre backs (Rio included). Vidic for me changed all that. We finally had a centre back who HIMSELF was the bully rather than the other way round.
Anyways it's very close and noone is miles ahead the other (to suggest so is laughable) and lets just hope and pray they both have great games against Barca. If even one doesn't we'll be in big trouble. But yes, that sort of game probably suits Rio a tad more because Barca always play on the ground and physically don't offer much of a threat.
Anyways it's very close and noone is miles ahead the other (to suggest so is laughable) and lets just hope and pray they both have great games against Barca. If even one doesn't we'll be in big trouble. But yes, that sort of game probably suits Rio a tad more because Barca always play on the ground and physically don't offer much of a threat.
I was going to mention this, but didn't. For Vidic's lack of flair or pace or whatever else - he provides a substantial threat and ultimately scores some important goals.
Sunderland, Inter, Chelsea (both times).
gotta be rio.
he is a far rarer commodity.
i cant think of a single player who plays centre half the way he does to the standard he does.
where as (this is hard to say without seeming harsh on vidic which i by no means mean to do) i can think of scores of centre halves who put there head on anything they can. i of course appreciate that vidic is far more than that. the point i am trying to make is that it is my opinion that we could far easily replace vidic than we could rio. who is/was better maybe up for debate but i dont think the previous statment is.
he is a far rarer commodity.
i cant think of a single player who plays centre half the way he does to the standard he does.
where as (this is hard to say without seeming harsh on vidic which i by no means mean to do) i can think of scores of centre halves who put there head on anything they can. i of course appreciate that vidic is far more than that. the point i am trying to make is that it is my opinion that we could far easily replace vidic than we could rio. who is/was better maybe up for debate but i dont think the previous statment is.
Miles ahead is an overstatement, but Rio is genuinely the best defender I've ever watched, along with possibly Nesta.
I'd put Vidic a level below then, along with a Carvalho or such.
I'd do the same but the other way round (with Vidic as the better) and I'd replace 'a level' with 'a little'.
You're in the minority then!
Mark my words. You will not see a defender like Vidic in a long, long time. Appreciate him whilst he is playing, because that kind of defensive colossus doesn't come around often.
For me, I would choose Rio ahead of Vida week in, week out. Rio is better on the ball, he's quicker, he has better awareness, is a much calmer influence on those around him and although this doesn't mean he's a better defender, he's 'looks' like a better footballer too.
Don't get me wrong, Vida is a serious footballer and would start in any team in world football but for me, Rio is an absolute gem of a centre half and one of the best there's ever been. TBH, Rio can often be underrated. Those who are stupid enough to watch 'The Premiership' on RTE will know what I'm talking about. Giles, Dunphy and Brady to a lesser extent would all choose Vidic over Ferdinand, especially the former two.
The way I look at it, we're lucky to have the lads and both are world class defenders in their own way.
Don't get me wrong, Vida is a serious footballer and would start in any team in world football but for me, Rio is an absolute gem of a centre half and one of the best there's ever been. TBH, Rio can often be underrated. Those who are stupid enough to watch 'The Premiership' on RTE will know what I'm talking about. Giles, Dunphy and Brady to a lesser extent would all choose Vidic over Ferdinand, especially the former two.
The way I look at it, we're lucky to have the lads and both are world class defenders in their own way.
I don't think people are underestimating Vida's quality. He's seriously top-notch and has brought so much to United, it's ridiculous. As I said earlier, there's not a team in England, Spain, Italy etc. where he wouldn't get his game, he's a good as anybody around. But for the majority here, myself included, Rio is a just a class above.
When for arguments sake can anyone remember Rio getting seriously, seriously roasted? Or having a real mare? I'm not saying Vida is prone to having a bad game but there are certain occasions when he can appear to be a little bit ruffled. That said, Vidic will go down as a great United player and one of United's best defenders.
Fair enough... but for all those attributes Vidic is the one who makes more interceptions, tackles, headers and goals. He does the donkey work, and what he doesn't do Rio mops up - That's why they are such an immense partnership.
I say that because too many people see him as a blood and thunder defender. I stand by it though, you will not see another Vidic for a long time.
You don't really, he is very solid, and at no point am I questioning Rio's ability here, rather challenging the rather peculiar thoughts that Rio is leagues ahead, when in truth he isn't.
Defending isn't just about last ditch tackles and scoring headers. I think the way in which Rio defends, which is down to pace, positional awareness and snuffing out danger quicker and earlier then Vida would is much more effective and would go alot more unnoticed. As I said earlier, Rio is much more consisetent, can deal with both quick and strong centre forwards, whereas Vida seems to have a bit of bother with strikers that are very quick off the mark.
I'd agree that Rio isn't leagues ahead of Vidic, that's common sense but he's a better footballer and for me, he's a better all round defender. Vidic is pure class though and the two together are arguably one of the best partnerships ever.
So this thread pretty much panned out as expected:
Vuc starts thread asking if Vidic or Rio is better.
Overwhelming consensus confirms that Rio is indeed the better defender.
Vuc refuses to accept this.
Vuc starts thread asking if Vidic or Rio is better.
Overwhelming consensus confirms that Rio is indeed the better defender.
Vuc refuses to accept this.
There is no shame in finishing second behind Rio. Vidic is one of the greatest of his generation, Rio is one of the greatest of all time. It's like comparing Ronaldo to Rooney. One is great, one is an all time great
Yup. Good analogy.
Of course, you could have said Ronaldo and Messi instead
Nah- that would be more like comparing Nesta to Rio....
Ferdinand one of the greatest of all time? Really... Baresi, Beckenbauer level? I'm sorry but that's simply not the case.
I think it was Pogue who said it earlier but i'll expand;
Rio & Vidic - Perfect
Rio & Smalling - Solid
Rio & Evans - Solid
Vidic & Smalling - Mostly solid but the odd lapse
Vidc & Evans - Mostly solid but the odd lapse
Smalling & Evans - Potential to be great, but too dodgy together at the moment
It's all obviously only my opinion, but I think it proves that Rio is the more complete defender and has an amazing ability to make the other man along with him perform better also. This for me means Rio is the better footballer.
Rio & Vidic - Perfect
Rio & Smalling - Solid
Rio & Evans - Solid
Vidic & Smalling - Mostly solid but the odd lapse
Vidc & Evans - Mostly solid but the odd lapse
Smalling & Evans - Potential to be great, but too dodgy together at the moment
It's all obviously only my opinion, but I think it proves that Rio is the more complete defender and has an amazing ability to make the other man along with him perform better also. This for me means Rio is the better footballer.
I'm sorry, but that's just your opinoin. We do also have modern day greats who aren't blessed with the benefit of nostalgia. Baresi, Beckenbauer, Rio and Nesta = some of the greatest of all time.
Thing that irks me about Rio is that supporters outside of United don't actually rate him that much. He is the most brilliant defender I have ever watched in my life. 2007/2008 was just on a whole other level because he still had that lightning recovery pace.
I know we're a bunch of knobs in Australia, but a lot of people I talk to actually rate Vidic and Terry above him. This is why I stay home and watch games though.
I know we're a bunch of knobs in Australia, but a lot of people I talk to actually rate Vidic and Terry above him. This is why I stay home and watch games though.
nostalgia
Yes, it's a real phenomena I promise. You can look it up if you like
I think you may have deliberately missed the point of my mockery.
Clearly that's what has happened here
If you seriously think Ferdinand is as good as Barsei or Beckenbauer then I'm not going to try and argue it out with you because it's bonkers but you should share which drugs you're taking with everyone so we can have some fun.
You're right. Of course you're ignoring what I actually said, and not actually right. But other than that- well done. Cruyff wasn't as good as Maradonna so I guess he isn't an all time great either.
Rio for a point was the best player in the world, and when he wasn't he was amongst the best in the world. In his prime he had absolutely everything. He is one of the greatest of all time
Yeah, because listing a couple of examples = the only "greatest ever" players. Ferdinand isn't in the top 10 central defenders of all time, he might sneak into the top 20, he's not one of the "greatest ever".
1. No he wasn't
2. No he didn't, he's never been aerially dominant.
Yes, he was. And never aerially dominant, are you kiding me? How many players over the years have dominated Rio in the air then? You're just spouting hyperbolic rubbish that lazy football pundits and arm chair fans who never bother to properly watch the game like to come out with. Rio is very strong in the air. Unfortunately some people need the media and/or football commentators to tell them just how good a player is before they agree. And Rio has never had that media support.
And I would be curious to see which 10 central defenders you put ahead of him.
And I would be curious to see which 10 central defenders you put ahead of him.
Rio was already a world class defender when Vidic joined the club.
Vidic is Rio's apprentice.
Vidic is Rio's apprentice.