Why do you attribute silks and tekkers to defending? Ferdinand is classy in his defending, which means he has fantastic reading of the game and often doens't have to make last-grasp and heroic challenges like Vidic because he goes about his defending in a much more mannered way. It's as much to do with his positioning and reading of the game as it do with Vidic's aggressive style which is why they suit each other perfectly, who can do the most kick ups doesn't really matter.
I'm not sure how you came to deduce that from my post.
Nah, those stats are obviously flawed.Again, this makes absolutely no difference to how many goals we concede when Rio does or doesn't play.
Nor is it particularly relevant to the goals conceded with/without Vidic. You could argue that he might be tired from playing so many games but, as you just pointed out, some of our worst defensive performances came earlier in the season when fatigue can't have been a factor.
Fair enough.
Personally, I don't think that going into sliding tackles shows a lack of fantastic reading the game. I think Vidic prefers to be in the striker's face, and Rio prefers a hands off approach. You need both styles in your defense.
So? Vermaleen is more classy, silkier and tekker than Vidic, does that make him a better defender?
Fair enough.
Personally, I don't think that going into sliding tackles shows a lack of fantastic reading the game. I think Vidic prefers to be in the striker's face, and Rio prefers a hands off approach. You need both styles in your defense.
There's a theme that the great defenders were much Rio-like than Vidic-like.
I don't think that's a coincidence.
Threads like this don't do Vidic justice really because he's quality and we all love him, yet it seems like he's being talked down!
So you did, damn you. All duly edited and corrected now.
The presence/absence of Rio remains a much greater influence than the presence/absence of Vidic.
We should actually probably recalculate it, ignoring all the games in which neither of them played (e.g. WHU in the CC) but I cannae be arsed.
You don't need numbers to work out that Ferdinand is miles better than Vidic.
More likely to foul and/or get sent off. The the trick is not to get yourself in a position where you need to be a have-a-go hero (see Ferdinand).... is more likely to 'somehow' get a foot in and win the ball.
More likely to foul and/or get sent off. The the trick is not to get yourself in a position where you need to be a have-a-go hero (see Ferdinand).
More likely to dominate his area. The trick is to win the ball and make sure you get the better of the attacker some way or the other (see Vidic).More likely to foul and/or get sent off. The the trick is not to get yourself in a position where you need to be a have-a-go hero (see Ferdinand).
It's also why Terry and Carragher were over-rated in their pomp with a last ditch block/tackle compensating for iffy positioning or a lack of pace.
This is going to come out majorly mongtarded, but here goes...
If Rio has missed a greater proportion of games and the games he has played in have, generally, been alongside Vidic, then surely it stands to reason that he's going to have a better defensive record than Vidic, who plays more games and will have played more games alongside a weaker partner...
That makes sense in my head.
Paul McGrath was best defender i've seen. After that it's probably Rio
People saying Ferdinand is "miles" better are bonkers, he's a better defender from open play but from set pieces and when the ball is in the air Vidic is equally far ahead. Lets not forget just how many aerial balls Vidic wins, something Ferdinand at his best could never do. Team's cant play long ball against us because none of their strikers ever win the first ball to get the knockdown, part of our problem before we got Vidic was the opposition just used to be able to plonk the ball up field and their midfielders could fight for the knockdown in our half, when Vidic's playing this doesn't happen.
Ferdinand is the better defender but he isn't "miles" ahead. Just because getting your head to everything isn't glamorous doesn't mean it isn't vital, it requires good awareness and excellent positional sense (something people seem to be criticising him for here), as well as a lot of determination and bravery to be willing to put your head where it hurts regardless. Lets not forget Vidic isn't like Jaap Stam or Chris Samba, he's not a massive unit which makes his total dominance aerially it all the more impressive.
I'd say a defensive partnership of two Ferdinands wouldn't be much better (if at all) than two Vidic's and both would be considerably weaker than what we have now. Where Ferdinand put's distance between himself and Vidic is his organisational skills, but then it's easier to be an organiser when you're playing along side someone as good as Vidic 99% of the time rather than Smalling or Evans.
People saying Ferdinand is "miles" better are bonkers, he's a better defender from open play but from set pieces and when the ball is in the air Vidic is equally far ahead. Lets not forget just how many aerial balls Vidic wins, something Ferdinand at his best could never do. Team's cant play long ball against us because none of their strikers ever win the first ball to get the knockdown, part of our problem before we got Vidic was the opposition just used to be able to plonk the ball up field and their midfielders could fight for the knockdown in our half, when Vidic's playing this doesn't happen.
Ferdinand is the better defender but he isn't "miles" ahead. Just because getting your head to everything isn't glamorous doesn't mean it isn't vital, it requires good awareness and excellent positional sense (something people seem to be criticising him for here), as well as a lot of determination and bravery to be willing to put your head where it hurts regardless. Lets not forget Vidic isn't like Jaap Stam or Chris Samba, he's not a massive unit which makes his total dominance aerially it all the more impressive.
I'd say a defensive partnership of two Ferdinands wouldn't be much better (if at all) than two Vidic's and both would be considerably weaker than what we have now. Where Ferdinand put's distance between himself and Vidic is his organisational skills, but then it's easier to be an organiser when you're playing along side someone as good as Vidic 99% of the time rather than Smalling or Evans.
I guess the point is that there are plenty of centre-halves who can dominate in the air (Stam and Samba are two but there are loads of others, like Hangelaand, Cahill, Terry, the Greek bloke at Liverpool etc. etc.) while it's rare to find a centre-half as polished as Ferdinand.
Stick Rio alongside any of the names I just mentioned and you've still got a hell of a pairing. Not sure the same applies if you stick Vidic alongside central defenders at the same sort of level (although Vidic is still a better player than any of them)
There's definitely not "miles" between them but Ferdinand is the rarer talent of the two.
You can't seriously choose Vidic over Ferdinand. Vidic lacks pace, doesn't read the game very well and is prone to giving away stupid fouls (which have seen him sent off far too often). Ferdinand is the best CB I've seen in the top flight in England.
Rio at his best was better, but you seriously under-rate Vidic. He does do the occasional stupid foul when he's beaten and ends up risking a penalty and/or red card, but it's once in a blue moon. Otherwise he's an extremely dominant centreback who is almost certainly the best in the world today.You can't seriously choose Vidic over Ferdinand. Vidic lacks pace, doesn't read the game very well and is prone to giving away stupid fouls (which have seen him sent off far too often). Ferdinand is the best CB I've seen in the top flight in England.
