Rio
Ferdinand or Vidic in their pomp
- Thread starter vuc
- Start date
I call this 'Blood and Thunder Syndrome'!!
People perceive defenders who are constantly blocking shots, putting in last ditch tackles, and heading a lot as better defenders than thiks who read the game and snuff out trouble before the need for the big sliding tackle is required.
He wasn't consistent in showing it though, I absolutely remember strikers turning him inside out. My Arsenal friends used to joke, whenever a striker megged Rio, it was a certain goal.
He's been on another level ever since Vidic joined.
I hate this assumption, that football fans do not appreciate the subtler qualities. Who do you know that rates Gerrard, a blood and thunder player, over Scholes?
Gerrard is better than Xavi. Blood & Thunder Rulz!!
Rio in his prime... and Stam as his partner.
Would have been ridiculous.
Would have been ridiculous.
Which year was Rio the best player in the world? Because for the life of me I cant remember him even winning Manchester United's player of the season, never mind the Ballon D'or. I dont think he's ever had a season where he's been Man Utd's best player, never mind the best player in the world.
The media argument is just your way of trying to argue around the point without addressing it. Ferdinand only truly matured into a consistantly world class player when he was partnered by Vidic, that says more than anything about the 'limitations' of Ferdinand's game.
In no particular order, not the best 10 but a mix of the most obvious/stylistically similar/contemporary;
Maldini
Moore
Beckenbauer
Baresi
Passarella
Krol
Costacurta
Desailly
Koeman
Scirea
In no particular order, not the best 10 but a mix of the most obvious/stylistically similar/contemporary;
Maldini
Moore
Beckenbauer
Baresi
Passarella
Krol
Costacurta
Desailly
Koeman
Scirea[/QUOTE]
How many of those have you actually seen play, out of intererst?
Are you lot serious? Rio used to have serious problems with physically strong strikers away from home.
This is one awful mistake some time back. I think there is this myth that Rio was always a supreme defender. As I've often said he had some serious issues against physically dominant strikers. And he always had these silly mistakes in him.
That doesn't mean he didn't become a class defender in time, but the theory that Rio has always been top class is not really true.
And Rio was NEVER the best player in the world. Same case with Vidic.
Unless someone actually thinks he was better than Ronaldo which is a bit silly in itself.
Unless someone actually thinks he was better than Ronaldo which is a bit silly in itself.
This is simple really, Vidić is great defender, but Rio is better. When it comes to Vidić you can question yourself is he the best in the world when on top of his game, while with Rio in his prime you just knew he's the best out there.
I haven't seen anything other than the odd one off match/World Cup games from Krol, Beckenbauer and Moore, they'd come under the "obvious" category. That's part of the reason I tried to stick to players I have seen play at least semi-regularly. The rest I've seen plenty of (although I've only seen the back end of Scirea's career, admittedly when he was past his peak) so I felt pretty comfortable comparing them all to Ferdinand.
I wouldn't say any were "miles" ahead of Ferdinand either, I rate him that highly but he's not one of the "greatest of all time".
That's not true at all, as you can see how poorly we defended during his drug ban and how much we improved when he came back. At one point, he even had Mikael flipping Silvestre looking like a world class central defender.
United aside, he's been consistently outstanding for England in any major tournament he's played in (unlike Vidic, for Serbia)
Stupid comparison. Totally different positions so it won't equate. A lot of football fans love the Richard Dunne, Terry type defender. One who heads everything thrown at them, but wouldn't be as adept at reading the game as Rio would. I think you re giving fans too much credit in general. Many, many fans do not look for the finer points of football, but look instead for the massive sliding tackle. It's actually natural that that's what people in our part of the world prefer. It's what we were brought up with. The concept of a ball playing centre half is a relatively new thing and still rare in the premiership.
Ferdinand was consistently world class for us from 02-06? I wouldn't say so, he was comfortably our best defender but he wasn't consistently world class like Nesta was at that time for instance, that came later. Oh and Mikael Silvestre looked at best competent, and only then at left back, he never looked world class ffs
2 things about his international record, Vidic plays for Serbia, plus when has Vidic ever let Serbia down? He missed World Cup 2006 after that famous 4 run in qualifying. They missed qualification by 3 points for 08 (conceding 11 in 14 games) and he didn't let them down in 2010 when he was their best defender in the finals.
So you can't say for certain that Rio as a defender could never fit in that catergory.
Moore was a great reader of the game but he was slow, didn't make him any less of a great captain mind.He nearly didn't make the WC...but the rest is history
Koeman was never a defender.It's a misconception that he was.Great passer from the back and as such that's why they used him there;as a playmaker.Rio is comfortably better...as a defender.
Of the rest I'd say only Maldini and Baresi were better, Krol arguable as well.
As a defender Rio could easily compete with the rest.
Ferdinand was consistently world class for us from 02-06? I wouldn't say so, he was comfortably our best defender but he wasn't consistently world class like Nesta was at that time for instance, that came later. Oh and Mikael Silvestre looked at best competent, and only then at left back, he never looked world class ffs
2 things about his international record, Vidic plays for Serbia, plus when has Vidic ever let Serbia down? He missed World Cup 2006 after that famous 4 run in qualifying. They missed qualification by 3 points for 08 (conceding 11 in 14 games) and he didn't let them down in 2010 when he was their best defender in the finals.
He gave away an incredibly pointless and stupid penalty.
Didn't make much difference, in the grand scheme of things, but if Rio did something similar for England he'd be absolutely crucified (and rightly so)
Indeed. That pen was atrocious. He did the same vs. Arsenal.
One incident... yeah thats letting down his country. hardly better than This or this is it? He's not been flawless for England even if it wasn't in the finals. Vidic is Serbia's best and most important player, of all the angles to try and attack Vidic from thats one of the poorest.
In the same way I cant say Van Nistlerooy could never fit into the same category as Pele. Except I can, because I've seen enough of their exploits at international level and their brilliance was hardly a secret.
I'll go with first hand evidence of watching him at two world cups and the countless other testiments that he's Englands best defender ever thank you.
He started out as a midfielder, but from PSV-ish onwards he was a sweeper and one of the best. Different times, the sweeper has gone out of fashion, if Rio had played 20 years ago he'd have been playing in the sweeper role like Koeman and Beckenbauer. They'd come under the "stylistically similar" category, I'm judging them on their ability as sweepers rather than midfielders, which is what Ferdinand's role and skill set is closest to.
I'm sure he could compete, I was asked to name 10 better and I'm fairly confident all where better at their peak than Ferdinand was at his.
Against Arsenal at least it could be excused by the fact he took it off RvP's head. No such excuse in the WC. One of the dumbest bits of defending I've ever seen.
Each to their own indeed eh amol...
Indeed!
That would have been amazing!
My favourite Stam moment was Inzaghi trying to back into him and just bouncing off him, then trying again and getting the same result. As tough as Vidic is, Stam was an absolute beast, and he was bloody quick as well. Gutted when he left, although in hindsight I'm relieved he went when he did.
Wasn't it Zamorano?
In 2008, Rio was no worse than Ronaldo, and we all know how good Ronaldo was that year. He WAS aerially dominant (saw him live in pretty much every match that year, and the only striker that gave him any trouble whatsoever was Kenwyne Jones funnily enough!), and had no flaws in his game at all. Not a single one. He shat out Torres, Drogba, Eto'o, Adebayor, Messi and all sorts. With ease, and all.
He was comparable the year before (and bloody good in 05/06 also - better than Terry for me) but not quite as immense and, whenever he's been fit, has operated at a similar level despite being a bit slower.
Haven't been many better than him, that's for sure. I often wonder how much credit he would've got had he been Italian. When you've got people like Messi saying he's the best defender he's ever played against, you get an idea of how good he is!
Was it? Thought it was Inzaghi but it might have been Zamorano.
Whoever it was, he wasn't getting any change out of Stam anyway!
The rest I dont disagree with, apart from as I said, he's "good" in the air not "great". The line I've quoted is the glaring error, I'm pretty sure if you find our player of the season voting from then Ronaldo would have gotten 99% of the votes, he was by quite some distance the best player in the world in 07/08. I think Ferdinand is the best defender Man Utd have ever had, I just dont feel the necessity to say he was "complete" or "one of the greatest off all time" when there's no shame in having one area of your game you're not a colossus at and and benefiting from playing along side someone who is, have been a hell of a lot of defenders to play the game, it's no shame having a few that are better than you.
Any excuse for that video.
You don't think Stam compares in terms of colussus-ness, for example?
There was nothing in it. Ronaldo and Ferdinand were just as good as each other - both were equally influential and significant in winning that fantastic double.
Rio Ferdinand put in the best overall defensive display I have seen in a season that year. They were definitely comparable seasons - Ronaldo was obviously going to scoop the awards given his position.
Though I wouldn't say that Ferdinand had a better season, he was no worse and I'd go as far as to say that, at his peak, he was better (just as Ronaldo, at his peak the year before, was better). At one point, Rio was consistently putting in 8s, 9s and 10/10 performances (something Ronaldo, for all his productivity, did not do, though it wasn't actually his role). It was phenomenal.
There was, as good as Ferdinand was that year, Ronaldo scored 42 goals, broke George Best's record from midfield and sweeped all the awards going. He was the best player in the world comfortably that season, only in a thread about Ferdinand would you even get someone trying to argue that.
It was actually argued on here consistently throughout that year and season, also.
I wonder how much credit Vidic would get here if he was English
Shitting hell, imagine the media shitestorm it would cause if Vidic was English?
They'd probably build statues of him taking on various lethal predators with his bare hands outside each stand at Wembley.
They'd probably build statues of him taking on various lethal predators with his bare hands outside each stand at Wembley.
I'm with KingEric on this one. Call me crazy, but I think Rio was the best player in the world at 2007/08. Called it at the time when the memories of both performers were fresh in my mind.
Couldnt really give a toss if you think i'm wrong, so dont bother arguing with me.
Couldnt really give a toss if you think i'm wrong, so dont bother arguing with me.
Another point I was going to make here is that, if you believe Ferdinand is the greatest Manchester United defender of all time, and when you take into account that his peak has co-incided with United's most successful period historically (an era that has been built around the solidity of our back 4, as well as counter-attacking football), doesn't that sort of make him one of the best defenders of all time by default?
I know it doesn't necessarily follow in a logical sense, but you can see my point.
I can see the point, but there are lots of countries, lots of clubs with successful/more successful periods in their history, some of them have had better central defenders than Rio. That is part of it, but there is much more to it than that.
Silly thread. Rio at his best is a much better player than Vidic.