Turn 1 spins explained. Oil on track from pre-race classic cars.
https://www.racefans.net/2023/11/19...ble-pre-race-oil-spill-grid-turn-one-crashes/
https://www.racefans.net/2023/11/19...ble-pre-race-oil-spill-grid-turn-one-crashes/
F1 2023 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
I've got 13.5 points unless they move anyone, I had the 2 we both got correct, and George. 9/10 of the top 10 but lost the podium bonus because of Lando. I'd got Max for fastest lap but he didn't get it
Just looked, you got 1 point extra than me because you put Leclerc on pole, argh why did I change it back to Max?!
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Wow 16.5 points for me. My best score by a country mile
Well, that was a surprisingly good GP. It's still quite a boring track, but I really enjoyed that.
Jesus, guys. Come on. I know you absolutely hate him, but that was all Russell! And Max is the "cock" and "twat" for it? Wow.
"Unworthy F1 champ"
Verstappen ties Sebastian Vettel for 3rd most victories in F1 history with that win. You would have thought he'd pass him in the next race. Crazy.
I can accept, this, re-watched it a few times after and yeah Russell's fault, I did give him credit for a good win and no I dont hate him , well not completely
Jesus, guys. Come on. I know you absolutely hate him, but that was all Russell! And Max is the "cock" and "twat" for it? Wow.
"Unworthy F1 champ"
I would say 'hate' is too strong a term. 'Expect better' from a 3 times WDC with his ability, talent and the car he currently has. No need to do anything he did today. Pushing leclerc off, or going up in the inside of russell (which russell admitted was his fault). Max could have waited to do the overtake on the straight. Whats the rush?
Jesus, guys. Come on. I know you absolutely hate him, but that was all Russell! And Max is the "cock" and "twat" for it? Wow.
"Unworthy F1 champ"
Like Vettel, Hamilton at their peak, he's gotten lucky with safety cars and damage from collisions. I suppose that 'luck' plays a part in becoming a multiple world champion.
The most disappointing aspect was turn 1, you'd have though he'd matured by now. Be very interesting to see next season if hes put under realsitic pressure by another driver for the 2024 WDC, if max of 2021 will re-emerge...
I can accept, this, re-watched it a few times after and yeah Russell's fault, I did give him credit for a good win and no I dont hate him , well not completely
Fair enough.
It was obviously Russell's fault. As he said himself, he didn't expect him to be there and he simply didn't check to see if he was there, either. And he has a pattern of this. I think he's a very carless driver. Not on Max at all.
Hate is a strong word, of course. Dislike, probably. I know you dislike him. Which is fine, obviously! I very much dislike Hamilton and always have done. But declaring him and "unworthy F1 champ" (you didn't say this) is just madness. The turn 1 incident is different. He was at fault and got punished for it. Just thought the rush to declare him a "cock" and a "twat" for something that wasn't even his fault was funny
Verstappen ready to destroy all records. Delightful nugget of a result.
The turn 1 incident was his fault. Absolutely no doubt about it. He pushed him off and he got punished for it. It happens. Didn't need to do it, no doubt. The Russell incident is Russell's fault. Max did nothing wrong. He's entitled to do that move.
In terms of "what's the rush?" I mean, he's a racer. He wants to get in front of the car as soon as possible. Why should he wait? He's entitled to make that move. He did nothing wrong. He shouldn't have to hang back and wait. He made the move, Russell did what Russell always does, and turned in on him. Why should the onus be on Max to wait?
So when you say there was no need for him to do what he he did today, you're talking about ONE incident. And he got punished for it.
Also, the talk of maturing and expecting better things a little hollow, to be honest. It's racing. These things happen. Lewis Hamilton is literally the most experienced driver on the grid (behind Alonso) and he STILL makes mistakes and fecks up the race for other drivers. So does the same immaturity apply to him? To me, that's just racing. Mistakes will happen. Max has matured a tremendous amount since he first started.
Calling him a twat for an incident that wasn't even his fault, from a move that he was entitled to make, is bizarre.
And yeah, I'd love to see him battle for the title. You'd see the best of him then. He'll handle it like he did before. Whether he would win it or not, who knows. Let's see. It would be a great spectacle, no doubt.
And here you are to try your hardest to say Max is pure evil again and him and Charles weren't both caught off guard by the lack of grip into breaking when they both said that that was part of the issue. Max was clearly overly ambitious, should have anticipated it (+took full responsibility for it) and deserved a penalty but look at what happened behind him. If he had tried to jolt the car back onto the line he probably would have spun or slid off track, potentially ruining several races. Given the unexpectedly fast launch and it being a new track, it probably was the best possible outcome.
Anyway point is: having favorites in sports is clearly fine - look at what forum we are on - but especially after things are said and some this world could do with a bit more putting things into perspective. Incidents helped make this race exciting.
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If that was the case, the stewards wouldnt have given him 2 penalty points on his racing licence. They would have said oil on the track contributed to it.
Besides even max has said the penalty he got was justified after the race.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/...epted that he,Formula 1's most abused penalty.
While Verstappen was unhappy with the penalty initially, upon a post-race review and chat with Leclerc, he accepted full responsibility.
"The start was good then we both braked quite late to defend the position, but I was on the inside on the dirt I guess," Verstappen said after the race.
As soon as you're a bit off-line here, it's just super low grip. I braked and there was no grip.
"I didn't mean to push Charles off the track but I couldn't slow down. I just kept sliding on, four wheels wide.
"That's why we had to go wide. At the time you're also full of adrenaline. And I was not happy with the decision but looking back at it, it was probably right call.
In regards to the incident with Russell. Russell was expecting Max to pass him on the next turn i.e. the straight with DRS and Max caught him off guard in his blind spot. Theres no way Russell would have kept max behind him, the merc isnt fast enough. So it was a risk max didnt need to take. He could have broken his front wing entirely and lost the GP win.
As for hamilton, yes hes making mistakes as is alonso. Neither of them are in rocket ship cars where you can apply some patience and wait for a better overtaking opportunity.
Peak Hamilton in the turbo hybrid era was a very clean racer (2021 aside). He didnt want to throw away Championship points or GP wins on risky overtakes. Again he back then also had a rocketship of a car.
Max may have said in regards to turn 1 it was because of a lack of grip, but the stewards have all the onboard telemetry and camera angles. They still decided to give him 2 penalty points on his racing licence. Sseing as normally lap 1 incidents on a whole do go unpunished, the fact that they gave him the 2 points, implies he knew what he was doing and pushed leclerc off.
You know Max was agreeing with the 5 secs there and not the penalty pts right? You also clearly quoted him saying what I already said yet you're still trying to make this worse than it is.
The pts seem excessive to me since weve had several more cases of similar situations during the season, even leading to serious damage. Seems to me FIA just wanted to send a message to Max for his radio message. Which - whatever - FIA gonna FIA.
Where did I deny this? I agreed that it was his fault. I never mentioned any mitigating circumstances. I said he pushed Leclerc off. Not sure what else you want me to say there.
I'm sorry, but the thing about them not being in "rocket ship" cars is nonsense, because Hamilton could be just as careless when he was in his own version of a "rocket ship". Let's not pretend for one second that he's an angel. He is far, far from it. He's had his incidents over the years, regardless of what car he was in. It's a nonsensical argument, because some of the incidents that Hamilton has been involved in wasn't becuase he was trying to force an overtake.
And quite frankly, what difference would it make anyway! The fact of the matter is, Hamilton has been involved in some really careless incidents (two this year I can think of off the top of my head) that has compromised other drivers. So again, is he also an immature twat for these. I just seen them as part of racing, personally.
And again you are offering mitigating circumstances for Russell by putting a lot of the blame on Max. So what if Russell didn't expect him to take over there. That is not Verstappen's problem. Russell should be aware of his surroundings. The onus is not on Max to wait around. This was Russell's fault and that's that. So again, we come back to the fact that Max was involved in ONE incident that he was punished for, yet this indicates that he's a twat and he's immature.
are you OK?
Although it’s Russell’s error, I don’t understand why Max took the risk to overtake at that point particularly as he probably would have taken him easily on the next DRS straight. But I guess even Max is human after all.
I said it was russell's fault as did russell. Why are you being so precious about me saying he's a twat and immature when another poster said Hamilton was trying to kill Piastri? Have you spoken to him about that?
I called hamilton a twat for something he did a previous race or two ago and im a hamilton fan. But dare criticise max verstappen on here.....
Its a forum we have opinions and can criticise if we choose to.
Alright mate, chill out.
Also, give me a break about " But dare criticise max verstappen on here....."
Loads of people in this thread criticise him every week. What are you smoking.
Where did i say you couldn't criticise? I was just remarking on your nonsensical argument you were making (you know, because it's a forum, and all. We all have opinions and can criticise if we choose). What you were saying made no sense. I'm not being precious at all. You were just making a nonsensical argument then doubled down on it, and now you've just become incredibly defensive.
I haven't read that post about Piastri. But if thats' what was said, obviously it's hyperbolic nonsense. Which I assume the person who said it was going for. It's also completely irrelevant to what we were discussing.
This was mildly entertaining. The RB domination is beginning to look a bit ridiculous for all the other teams. That Honda power unit is beyond anything on the park, Verstappen is just bullying everyone else and they just have a packet unchallenged. They are just in another league.
I thought it was more than mildly entertaining, personally. I mean, my expectations were rock bottom, but dare I say, it was one of the most entertaining races of the season...
Apart from the last few laps, the number one spot was up for grabs. A couple of safety cars, lots of overtaking, a few incidents. I quite liked it.
I don't know I just find this era boring as feck.I thought it was more than mildly entertaining, personally. I mean, my expectations were rock bottom, but dare I say, it was one of the most entertaining races of the season...
Apart from the last few laps, the number one spot was up for grabs. A couple of safety cars, lots of overtaking, a few incidents. I quite liked it.
Verstappen is a whinge monster and the aren't any tough bastard there except Perez and Alonso.
It's something all the top drivers do when theyre starting out; put their nose there and let the defending driver decide what to do. Russell's fault but Max took the risk going there.
Whether he's at fault or not he is always there when there's trouble and doesn't seem to be learning.
Whether he's at fault or not he is always there when there's trouble and doesn't seem to be learning.
Saw it today, literally one of biggest cringes I've seen on TV
A fun Twitter thread of people in Las Vegas employing ingenuity to see the racing action.
Still all to play for in Superbru Fantasy.
rpitroda and UnitedHobbit , both on 273.5 points, unless they both forgot to pick at the weekend, which is unlikely one of those will be champion.
hob is too far behind on 267.5 and me on 264 will not be catching them.
rpitroda and UnitedHobbit , both on 273.5 points, unless they both forgot to pick at the weekend, which is unlikely one of those will be champion.
hob is too far behind on 267.5 and me on 264 will not be catching them.
That cat has left the bag a long time ago, maybe he's at the end of his rope with Vegas, but otherwise meh
If it was about the sport solely, then explain Bahrain/Monaco/Abu Dhabi/Miami
And would the drivers race if the money wasn't as much? (I'm sure Verstappen would, he seems to be a driver's driver).
Also, a bit of the "pure Euro snob" in this, but understandable
The drivers have complained about those tracks plenty in the past (except Monaco, as that's a much different circuit to other street events).
He mentioned Monza and Spa but it's not purely Euro snobbery, they all love places like Suzuka and Interlagos and new tracks can be done well from time to time. It's the monotony of the long straight followed by tight hairpin that wrecks them all.
Apparently he got a talking to from his dad and other RB seniors in terms of toning down his criticism after that interview, probably a request from F1/FIA. Which i think is rubbish. As a driver he should be able to speak his mind. We dont want autonomon's who just tow the party line as much as F1/FIA would like that.
Thats one thing i do like about him, that he's a traditionalist i.e. practice on friday, qually on saturday and race on sunday. Plus he hates the sprint races as many of us do.
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One good thing is it's not a Tilke copy paste job. The long straights might not be popular with most but I like it for being different. To be frank the race delivered more than I had hoped for.
Which is weird, because Monaco is just a procession once qualifiers are done. It gets a pass on legacy but as a new circuit would be panned
Fair enough on the second point
Thank god for Max. Shame some of the other experienced drivers haven't spoken up. Maybe they don't care. Vettel would have.
Valencia was another poor track and in Europe no less, but a nice setting. Suzuka, Interlagos, Spa Silverstone Monza and even Austin Texas are what is good for fans and drivers. Monaco is a historical event that many have argued should be stopped, it's still very interesting to drive and as an exception ok.
I liked the Las Vegas GP and thought it would generate a good race. If you have a few of these on the calendar it's fine but if they phase out the roots for these showcase party or soulless fabrication places or keep stacking them in then the sport becomes something else. Too many races, sprint weekends can be very draining on the families and leisure time for everyone involved which Max has alluded too.
I liked the Las Vegas GP and thought it would generate a good race. If you have a few of these on the calendar it's fine but if they phase out the roots for these showcase party or soulless fabrication places or keep stacking them in then the sport becomes something else. Too many races, sprint weekends can be very draining on the families and leisure time for everyone involved which Max has alluded too.
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