F1 2021 Season

ArjenIsM3 said:
Couldn't they do both? Take over McLaren as a team, take over the RB engine factory, supply engines to both RB and McLaren?
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In the short term Mclaren have a deal with Merc till 2024 so presumably there would be penalty clauses if they dont take the merc engines?

The honda deal licences the IP to Red bull engines for a few years then the IP reverts to Honda ... I would be surprised if that didnt include clauses precluding that IP being passed to a rival car manufacturer?
 
Always wondered about that 'customer team' business. Since its always about not direct competitors, and therefore second or third tier teams, what's stopping the engine producing team to give b-quality blocks to the customer?
 
Wicked_Badger said:
So the chances are I’m going to be in London on holiday for the race this Sunday. I’ve managed to convince the wife to make time in our schedule to watch it. Anyone know of decent pubs/venues to watch it in? Or is it the case of just finding a sports bar & hoping they show it?
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This place used to have loads of TVs and showed loads of sport and did ok food too. It's by Hammersmith Bridge though so not bang central.

https://www.oldcityarms.co.uk/index

There's a sports bar in Victoria that's functional- several big screens. Drinks pricey, but much more central and your missus could go for a walk in nearby St James's Park, which is one of the best in London, or walk through the park to the West End if shopping is her thing (no sexist).
 
dinostar77 said:
Longer term RB are hoping a manufacturer will come and buy the f1 engine factory back off them and take over the engines again. Someone from the VW group, but it looks as if Audi have their eyes on McLaren as their way in rather than supplying engines to RB.
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Expect multiple marquee brands from the VW group to feature in F1. Long term rumours of VW and RBR engine tie up, Audi having recent engagement with McLaren, and Porsche looking at a complete entrant as a team (most likely an acquisition). The key thing to understand is on a motorsport level, they all work very independently and having separate teams. So it's likely we'll see multiple brands from the same group.

ArjenIsM3 said:
Couldn't they do both? Take over McLaren as a team, take over the RB engine factory, supply engines to both RB and McLaren?
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It'll never happen. Success in F1 will only come with exclusivity on power units and any purchases will come with that clause in there. F1 needs more engine manufacturers if I'm honest, as it helps create the competition.

The Firestarter said:
Always wondered about that 'customer team' business. Since its always about not direct competitors, and therefore second or third tier teams, what's stopping the engine producing team to give b-quality blocks to the customer?
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They will get the same spec engine as that's permitted in the rules, but certainly they're limited by the maps that are provided. Good example of this is insight from Matthew Carter, former CEO of Lotus Renault.
 
Jippy said:
This place used to have loads of TVs and showed loads of sport and did ok food too. It's by Hammersmith Bridge though so not bang central.

https://www.oldcityarms.co.uk/index

There's a sports bar in Victoria that's functional- several big screens. Drinks pricey, but much more central and your missus could go for a walk in nearby St James's Park, which is one of the best in London, or walk through the park to the West End if shopping is her thing (no sexist).
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Cheers Jippy, I’ll check them out! Wife will be more than happy to escape to the shops with the credit card for a couple of hours.:lol::wenger:
 
The Firestarter said:
Always wondered about that 'customer team' business. Since its always about not direct competitors, and therefore second or third tier teams, what's stopping the engine producing team to give b-quality blocks to the customer?
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This used to be quite common. There are rules against it now though.

Factory teams still, obviously, have an advantage because they build the engine to fit their car, will have access to different engine maps etc.
 
The Firestarter said:
Always wondered about that 'customer team' business. Since its always about not direct competitors, and therefore second or third tier teams, what's stopping the engine producing team to give b-quality blocks to the customer?
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Didnt Red Bull win with a customer engine from Renault in 2010 (when renault still were a factory team themselves)
 
sun_tzu said:
Didnt Red Bull win with a customer engine from Renault in 2010 (when renault still were a factory team themselves)
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In 2010 Renault were on the way out. From that point on they were basically a works engine manufacturer for RBR.
 
F-Red said:
Expect multiple marquee brands from the VW group to feature in F1. Long term rumours of VW and RBR engine tie up, Audi having recent engagement with McLaren, and Porsche looking at a complete entrant as a team (most likely an acquisition). The key thing to understand is on a motorsport level, they all work very independently and having separate teams. So it's likely we'll see multiple brands from the same group.



It'll never happen. Success in F1 will only come with exclusivity on power units and any purchases will come with that clause in there. F1 needs more engine manufacturers if I'm honest, as it helps create the competition.



They will get the same spec engine as that's permitted in the rules, but certainly they're limited by the maps that are provided. Good example of this is insight from Matthew Carter, former CEO of Lotus Renault.
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VW will only commit a single brand to f1, it makes no economical sense to have more than one. Audi makes sense. Porsche would have too much to loose as a brand.
 
So, as a relatieve outsider. It seems to me that most F1 drivers are actually rather entitled and arrogant pricks. Is it because it's mostly a rich people's sport? Or am I just projecting the personalities of Max, Lewis and Michael Schumacher unto an entire sport unfairly.
 
KirkDuyt said:
So, as a relatieve outsider. It seems to me that most F1 drivers are actually rather entitled and arrogant pricks. Is it because it's mostly a rich people's sport? Or am I just projecting the personalities of Max, Lewis and Michael Schumacher unto an entire sport unfairly.
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I don't think being humble and having hundreds of people travel the world year round just so you can go racing is a natural fit;)
 
KirkDuyt said:
So, as a relatieve outsider. It seems to me that most F1 drivers are actually rather entitled and arrogant pricks. Is it because it's mostly a rich people's sport? Or am I just projecting the personalities of Max, Lewis and Michael Schumacher unto an entire sport unfairly.
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Like most footballers then?

The truth is most elite sportspeople, getting paid millions, are the same.
 
slyadams said:
Only a few days to go, anyone else getting nervous/excited already?
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I’m excited for it, I just hope the race lives up to the occasion. Quite easy being a Hamilton fan now, he’s got 7 after all, nothing will compare to 07, 08 and 14.
 
dinostar77 said:
VW will only commit a single brand to f1, it makes no economical sense to have more than one. Audi makes sense. Porsche would have too much to loose as a brand.
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Nope. They're looking at multiples. They did it with LMP1 in the Endurance racing series, it's not beyond them to submit multiple brands to racing competition. Plus the dynamics of the team bosses and their historic relationships indicates that it's not going to be a single brand entry.
 
KirkDuyt said:
So, as a relatieve outsider. It seems to me that most F1 drivers are actually rather entitled and arrogant pricks. Is it because it's mostly a rich people's sport? Or am I just projecting the personalities of Max, Lewis and Michael Schumacher unto an entire sport unfairly.
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They're not all from rich backgrounds actually. That's one of the surprising things I learned from watching Drive to Survive - although I do think most are. Either way, there are only 20 F1 racers, it's extremely cut-throat, so the only way to become one of those is to marry extreme ability with extreme confidence - otherwise you'll fall off someone along the way to the top. (Edit: except for Mazepin I guess...)

All the same, people like Gasly, Ocon, and Albon did seem less arrogant in Drive to Survive. Confident, but not entitled or arrogant. Hamilton isn't one of those either in my eyes for that matter. (I would completely discount anything they're saying in the heat of the moment during the race; no-one competitive will sound like a fun person under kind of that pressure.)
 
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F-Red said:
Expect multiple marquee brands from the VW group to feature in F1. Long term rumours of VW and RBR engine tie up, Audi having recent engagement with McLaren, and Porsche looking at a complete entrant as a team (most likely an acquisition). The key thing to understand is on a motorsport level, they all work very independently and having separate teams. So it's likely we'll see multiple brands from the same group.
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VW Group will only join a non-production based motorsport series if it can directly help flog more cars, they've never been one for general brand awareness. They need to plaster a current road technology all over it. Le Mans was for a long time about the TDI engine, before that FSI, and more recently hybrids. Now they're all in on EVs.

I'd love to see Audi in F1 and Porsche in LMH but I don't see them joining F1 unless the sports goes much further in the EV direction (I hope it wont).


KirkDuyt said:
So, as a relatieve outsider. It seems to me that most F1 drivers are actually rather entitled and arrogant pricks. Is it because it's mostly a rich people's sport? Or am I just projecting the personalities of Max, Lewis and Michael Schumacher unto an entire sport unfairly.
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It has definitely gotten worse, possibly as more and more rich and connected kids are entering the sport. Pay to drive has always been a thing but not like it is now. Back in the 2000s and before most of them were pretty nice.
 
F-Red said:
They will get the same spec engine as that's permitted in the rules, but certainly they're limited by the maps that are provided. Good example of this is insight from Matthew Carter, former CEO of Lotus Renault.
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That's crazy. Doesn't Mercedes also give last year's engine to Stroll's team? It's such a pity in a sport where engine quality is the #1 indicator of success. Given there are only a few engine providers left, it's basically a given that these providers' own top teams can ever be truly competitive.
 
Cheimoon said:
That's crazy. Doesn't Mercedes also give last year's engine to Stroll's team? It's such a pity in a sport where engine quality is the #1 indicator of success. Given there are only a few engine providers left, it's basically a given that these providers' own top teams can ever be truly competitive.
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Aston Martin are a customer of Mercedes, they have the current year power unit in their car. It's expensive to design an engine, hence why the 2026 regulations are getting a lot of interest from VW, Audi, Porsche brands as the cost to entry is much less than before. The only way people will win championships moving forward is having exclusive use of a power unit, whether own brand or a works team.
 
F-Red said:
They will get the same spec engine as that's permitted in the rules, but certainly they're limited by the maps that are provided. Good example of this is insight from Matthew Carter, former CEO of Lotus Renault.
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The maps situation is clear, and I agree that the specs should technically be the same. My point, however, was about production quality of the individual units. Every manufacture produces non uniform quality items, and the way these might differ here would be in longevity. So what I'd guess is Merc bins the best units for themselves, and the lower quality stock goes to the customers. The complexity of the aggregate makes it impossible to detect this externally , unless someone from the factory actually comes forward.
 
The Firestarter said:
The maps situation is clear, and I agree that the specs should technically be the same. My point, however, was about production quality of the individual units. Every manufacture produces non uniform quality items, and the way these might differ here would be in longevity. So what I'd guess is Merc bins the best units for themselves, and the lower quality stock goes to the customers. The complexity of the aggregate makes it impossible to detect this externally , unless someone from the factory actually comes forward.
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They're the same, the FIA moved with a technical and sporting directive back in 2018 to mitigate that type of behaviour. In the early days of the hybrid era, there was customer engines that were inferior to the works engines.
 
F-Red said:
Aston Martin are a customer of Mercedes, they have the current year power unit in their car.
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Didn't have last year's engine a few years ago? I thought that's what I remembered. Maybe I'm wrong again. :)
 
F-Red said:
They're the same, the FIA moved with a technical and sporting directive back in 2018 to mitigate that type of behaviour. In the early days of the hybrid era, there was customer engines that were inferior to the works engines.
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I just don't see how this can realistically be enforced.
 
It's not even Friday practice and I'm sick of seeing Christian Horner already. I mean before anyone jokes yes I've been sick of him for years but we haven't even started this race weekend and he's all over the media. How anyone can compare him and Toto is beyond me.
 
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Rooney1987 said:
It's not even Friday practice and I'm sicked seeing Christian Horner already. I mean before anyone jokes yes I've been sick of him for years but we haven't even started this race weekend and he's all over the media. How anyone can compare him and Toto is beyond me.
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They are both cnuts.
 
It’s going to be electric. Can’t wait. Just hope the championship is won on the road with good racing and not drama about he did x and he did y.
 
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