Flemish press.
Explosions reported at Brussels airport.
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
- Start date
I see, thanks.
Well Euro 96 did have a bombing coincide with it, although you could argue there is basically no parallel given that warnings were given before hand.
But yeah, I'm a little worried about it. I'm not sure that they are doing enough at all.
What do you mean by that?
Well, I was just having a google of the security procedures that will be in place for Euro 2016
http://www.theguardian.com/football...erior-minister-security-european-championship
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...spections-following-Paris-terror-attacks.html
http://www.thelocal.fr/20160322/euro-2016-in-france-couldnt-be-more-secure
Firstly, airport style security is great for stopping concealed devices into the areas, but it just moves the target back. As we saw with the Brussels bombing, it's a soft target to hit the actual security places themselves. I would expect that the stadiums and fan zones are nearly 100% safe, that is a minimum, but it's them getting into other areas them that will be worrying about.
Portugal suspended Schengen for Euro 2004 without there being a major threat over their heads. Maybe the suspension wasn't as deep as this is going to be, but still. So far all the Brussels and French road blocks have been nearly 100% ineffective. It's not like the Olympics where you need to pretty much just keep one city safe, there are 10 stadiums, loads of fan zones, and hundreds of pubs, bars, restaurants.
Long before the tournament starts, I'd want almost every city on lock-down. It shouldn't be a case that no one is getting into the stadium, no one should be getting into the cities!
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Well yeah, but cancelling games which are played a week later is sending the wrong message, imo. I don't think they can afford to cancel or postpone any games at the Euros if anything would happen, so why not try to see how it goes now? I definitely wouldn't mind being triple-checked when entering the stadium if that's what it takes. As for the supporters gathering outside where there aren't any security checks: you'll always have the risk of being attacked in an open space, I wouldn't feel more unsafe outside the stadium than at any random public transport stop or public event.
Frustrating for us but not unexpected of course. That's two friendles in a row cancelled because of terrorist attacks (previous was against Spain a few days after Paris/Bataclan). I really do fear for the Euros.
This one doesn't appear to want to die though, as he is on the run.
I think he'd much rather die than be captured alive though.
He tried to but wasn't there a problem with his suicide vest/suitcase and that's why he fled?
This is by no means a complete summary, just some bits from the prosecutor's presser:
- The third guy (in the white jacket) is still on the run. He isn't identified yet.
- In the flat where the taxi driver picked the three airport terrorists up, police found (among other things) 15 kg of explosives, 30 l H2O2, bags of nails.
- Police found a laptop in the same street on which they found the testament of one of the terrorists.
The prosecutor acknowledged that the media and public seek information but for investigational reasons he won't disclose more at this point.
- The third guy (in the white jacket) is still on the run. He isn't identified yet.
- In the flat where the taxi driver picked the three airport terrorists up, police found (among other things) 15 kg of explosives, 30 l H2O2, bags of nails.
- Police found a laptop in the same street on which they found the testament of one of the terrorists.
The prosecutor acknowledged that the media and public seek information but for investigational reasons he won't disclose more at this point.
There is the possibility that the reason they attacked yesterday was a reaction to Saleh Abdeslam's arrest, and him possibly giving the others away. The may have felt they had no choice but to act now.
But it seems like a pipe dream to hope that there aren't more of them
But it seems like a pipe dream to hope that there aren't more of them
According to the prosecutor, he was the one who carried the biggest explosive device in a bag and that it didn't explode. This is the one which authorities lated brought to explosion in a controlled manner.
Portugal and France are two completely different countries, we have 6 boarders the country will never be locked down unless Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy, Spain do their part of the job, France is also an highway for merchandises, suspending Schengen unilaterally has to be a decision coming from all our partners.
As for putting Cities on Lock down, I don't know how we can do that, we don't have enough resources to do that.
Yeah I mean I'm not disagreeing. Shutting down France's borders would be a monumental task and it's not something I want. You can see here Belgium and France 'shutting down the borders' yesterday, but it didn't stop the new world's most wanted from getting away.
But I disagree on the cities. If they think terrorists are still out there, and there is a serious chance of an attack, then I think that's exactly what they should be doing. And they should be practicing now.
- Start by closing the more minor routes into and out of the cities, leaving only a few routes into and out of each city.
- For those routes, border crossing style security to get into and out of each city. The vast majority of vehicles should be let straight through.
Maybe I'm just being hopelessly naive. But they are cancelling football matches already, when there is far less to worry and far less going on than there will be in the summer.
@rcoobc
It's not about philosophy, we literally can't lock down most of the cities. Paris alone would require most of the Men available, if we close the roads than we will have to rely on public transports and they can't handle it, the solution would be to have policemen from Belgium, Italy, Spain, Germany and England.
It's not about philosophy, we literally can't lock down most of the cities. Paris alone would require most of the Men available, if we close the roads than we will have to rely on public transports and they can't handle it, the solution would be to have policemen from Belgium, Italy, Spain, Germany and England.
Not convinced about that, but ive no idea!
Paris is a beast, so let's forget about that for a sec. Let's look at Marseille
The leaves as you say, the major roads and trains. Major roads, anyone going straight past the city can just continue on their way as usual. Anyone going into the city would have a proper check. Somehow. I don't know. But this is without a doubt the best way to reduce the loss of life if an attack is inevitable. To put the borders on the outside of the cities, and not at the stadium doors.
You wouldn't even have to have border style security. Just stop the traffic and have a few policeman walk through the cars. "Passports". "Open Trunk". "On your way."
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I watch them on YouTube .
Game will be played in Portugal, same date and time. Meh.
Yeah me too usually, but I always watch the live show most nights around election time, it's great and they often do extended live shows for the debates and election results. Bernie Saunders is live tonight! Such a big accomplishment for them! I can't wait.
Agree with this. The problem isn't necessarily the match and stadium area, these nutters are just as likely to attack a pub filled to the brim with fans, a bus, a tram or basically any place with a large congregation of people. Basically a repeat of the attacks in Paris or Brussels.
Speaking of the Euros the Tour de France is likely to be a security nightmare as well, anyone may jump into the peloton and blow all the cyclists into pieces without warning.
Where do you live - central Siberia, how can you possibly shut down cities in a country as populated as France
Paris is a beast, so let's forget about that for a sec. Let's look at Marseille
Block all the non major roads into the cities. Even with just a barrier and 2 policeman and a soldier, that would be more than enough to block each road.
The leaves as you say, the major roads and trains. Major roads, anyone going straight past the city can just continue on their way as usual. Anyone going into the city would have a proper check. Somehow. I don't know. But this is without a doubt the best way to reduce the loss of life if an attack is inevitable. To put the borders on the outside of the cities, and not at the stadium doors.
You wouldn't even have to have border style security. Just stop the traffic and have a few policeman walk through the cars. "Passports". "Open Trunk". "On your way."
Marseille is already a transport nightmare, if you block the roads even just the non major roads, you just shut down the city, you are talking about big cities with big suburbs and lots of activities.
Even if you manage to do what you are suggesting, the degradation of the economical activities will cost billions.
Once again Paris, Lyon, Nice, Lille, Marseille and Toulouse have at least 1m inhabitants and a lot of companies, a lot of workers leaving outside of the cities.
My mate was in Amsterdam train station yesterday when those shootings went off, apparently ISIS have claimed responsibility when it was just a drugs bust 
they're fecking nutters, scary nutters
they're fecking nutters, scary nuttersWell they wouldn't really be shut down, just restricted. You could still access them via train or the main roads. Each car would have a quick search as it enters or leaves the city, just as they are already doing after the terrorist attacks.
Maybe you are right. Marseille does look like a nightmare to be fair.
But you wouldn't hopefully need prison level security, just enough to make any attackers lose confidence in their plans.
I'm not interested in what they want. Decent people deserve to live in a world that does not include them.
The problem is the volume of traffic using those main routes, stopping everyone and opening the trunk/checking documents would rapidly back up and block all the traffic on the main roads not crossing into the sealed area. They had the border blockades up between France and Belgium after the Paris attacks last year for a couple of weeks and all they did was block the road and bring all vehicles off to travel around a roundabout at a rest stop before exiting back onto the road the other side of the blockade, they had floodlights glaring into the cars and a handful of armed police looking in and I'd assume the MO would be to pull over anyone dark skinned, bearded etc. Even without stopping the traffic completely they rapidly begun to back-up for several miles along the main highway which immediately had your satnav trying to bring you off one or more exits before the border diverting you down country lanes and farm tracks.Paris is a beast, so let's forget about that for a sec. Let's look at Marseille
Block all the non major roads into the cities. Even with just a barrier and 2 policeman and a soldier, that would be more than enough to block each road.
The leaves as you say, the major roads and trains. Major roads, anyone going straight past the city can just continue on their way as usual. Anyone going into the city would have a proper check. Somehow. I don't know. But this is without a doubt the best way to reduce the loss of life if an attack is inevitable. To put the borders on the outside of the cities, and not at the stadium doors.
You wouldn't even have to have border style security. Just stop the traffic and have a few policeman walk through the cars. "Passports". "Open Trunk". "On your way."
Even if you do successfully block the roads without too much chaos what's to say the terror cell aren't already inside your cordon (especially in Marseille) or to prevent more terrorists simply turning off prior to the blockade then stopping on a country road parallel to the cordon and strolling over through a farmers field before meeting others inside the cordon or hijacking a vehicle.
But for example the nearest biggish town to me is Limoges, about 150,000 inhabitants, ie a lot smaller than any of the venues there must be at least 500 minor roads leading into the city, and I could find a way into the town if I wanted to. Alone that would, as per your suggestion take up 1500 policeman/soldiers not counting those already policing the centre if was a venue.
Added to that the chaos the traffic build-up would cause the whole area would be paralysed. If you get an accident on the motorway there are queues for miles and miles in all directions.
Apart from all the commuters workers living outside, the through traffic it would be a nightmare.
On top of that the holiday season would be upon us in July and you try to travel by car on the first weekend of July
This is only referring to an average town but if you talk about Marseille, Toulouse, Lille Paris Lyon etc, you have to multiply that by more than 10[/QUOTE]
Thanks, this is good first hand info.
I would say, at the very least, this is exactly what the security services are going to be doing again if their is another terrorist attack. So at the very least, practicing would be useful. But my point is, its almost pointless shutting down everything after a terrorist attack. You need to do it before.
And I fully accept your arguments. What is to stop some terrorists walking across a field with a load of kalashnikovs? Hopefully they would be seen, and at least they would be lacking a vehicle on the other side.
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Ahhh lovely place! I went camping with my girlfriend at one of the nearby lacs/plans d'eau last Summer, one of the most quiet places I've been to recently. Limoges itself was also a pleasant surprise, although I didn't expect it to be much in the first place.
Let me rephrase.
One of the reasons they do this (I think the main reason, feel free to correct me) is that they believe that by killing the enemy they will be rewarded in heaven. One method of defeating them is to take that reward away, by capturing and imprisoning them you are removing the reward. If more terrorists were captured and imprisoned then it would surely send a message that if you do attempt to attack us, we will imprison you for the remainder of your life, no rewards, no heaven, just a terrible, terrible life in solitary imprisonment.
By killing them all you're doing is ending their life quickly and therefore it's no deterrent? But rotting away in a prison for the rest of their lives would surely make them think twice? They've already committed themselves to dying after all, so why grant them that?
Yes it's a beautiful area, I'm about 50km south of Limoges, which camping/plan d'eau did you go to?
I do realise that is the theory they are working to but it's a load of bollocks. If we imprison them they are able to mix and communicate with others and spread their evil thoughts so I'd rather have them dead and run the miniscule risk this heaven crap is true and that are able to collect their reward.
No idea anymore, we just stopped on our way back from Toulouse at a random lake which seemed to be secluded. Tried to look it up in Google Maps but there are so many of them and their names all look alike to me so I'd have to ask the gf..
Anyway let's not derail the thread, just wanted to share that with you
That's the difference, I'd simply put them in solitary confinement. feck their human rights, terrorists imo shouldn't have them.
No idea anymore, we just stopped on our way back from Toulouse at a random lake which seemed to be secluded. Tried to look it up in Google Maps but there are so many of them and their names all look alike to me so I'd have to ask the gf..
Anyway let's not derail the thread, just wanted to share that with you
Yes for sure ok, thanks
No idea anymore, we just stopped on our way back from Toulouse at a random lake which seemed to be secluded. Tried to look it up in Google Maps but there are so many of them and their names all look alike to me so I'd have to ask the gf..
Anyway let's not derail the thread, just wanted to share that with you
How are people doing in Belgium? How people feel about the fact that the terrorists are mainly from Belgium?
I live in a very busy university city so when I'm outside, I'm constantly surrounded by people and yesterday's attacks are all people talk about. Opinions are kind of divided, I feel. You've got the idiots on Facebook declaring war, echoing extreme right-wing political ideas, wanting gun rights for everyone and so on but I feel like those people are in the minority. Most of the people just feel very sad and dejected by what happened yesterday; we all knew we had it coming one day but it's still a big shock when it actually happens and could've affected a lot of people you know. People don't feel particularly unsafe though. We were asked to stay inside yesterday but there were some gatherings in the evening, with a really strange atmosphere - a bit resigned but people showed a lot of unity and it actually really got to me how people stand to together in such tough times.
As for the fact that the terrorists are mainly from here, it's not like that's new for us. We knew there were a lot of radicalized terrorists in Molenbeek and the other suburbs of Brussels so if there was ever going to be an attack, it was most likely going to be done by people from here. We definitely don't want to create an 'us vs them' mentality though as we can witness first hand that a lot of Muslims are equally as touched and affected as other people are, if not more. They're very sad that they're associated with these terrorists and want to remind everyone that they're not Muslims and their ideas are not what Muslims stand for at all.
As for life in general, it just goes on. Molenbeek and Brussels are only fifteen minutes away from where I am right now but still, sometimes at some places you wouldn't even know something happened yesterday and that's a very bewildering feeling. I can sense it's going to take a long time before we are recovered from this though, and things will probably change, I don't know for the better or worse. It's often like that in Belgium, that something tragic has to happen before changes are made. I've got family in both the northern and southern parts of Belgium so I, for one, am happy about the response of the people in the whole country - it's sad that it takes a terrorist attack to make us feel one again but the love and unity that's been on display ever since it's happened is quite amazing, imo.
What'll also happen: Terrorists will blow themselves up exactly where cars and trucks line up waiting to get controlled. Locking all streets or railway tracks down will lead to a shift of location of attacks but will not prevent attacks from happening.
What'll also happen: Terrorists will blow themselves up exactly where cars and trucks line up waiting to get controlled. Locking all streets or railway tracks down will lead to a shift of location of attacks but will not prevent attacks from happening.