I don't know what the discourse on the subject in British Mosque's is but if they are not speaking out on it then I don't see any other choice in asking them to do so. I was more referring to the possible influence that Immans could have on problem anyway.
Explosions reported at Brussels airport.
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
- Start date
I don't know what the discourse on the subject in British Mosque's is but if they are not speaking out on it then I don't see any other choice in asking them to do so. I was more referring to the possible influence that Immans could have on problem anyway.
Why should Muslims speak out publicly though? The people doing this are absolutely nothing to do with them in the VAST majority of cases, same as the idiots attacking random Muslims are absolutely nothing to do with me. These shootings all over America are similarly nothing to do with me, other than nothing more than both being white men.
To ask Muslims to publicly distance themselves is a terrible hypocrisy that can only lead to more feeling completely separated from their community, and turning towards a group like ISIS who will promise all manner of things.
I thought we were talking about Immans speaking out within their own communities? I don't care if Muslims make public declarations on the subject or not.
Well it started with asking if any athletes had spoken out. But the point remains, why should the Immam need to speak out? It should be a given.
Did priests, vicars etc… speak out about Anders Breivik? About Sandy Hook? About Aurora? About Charleston?
Come on, those are simply not analogous situations. ISIS have recruited 800 fighters from British Muslim communities in the past few years. I am sure that religious leaders in communities close to the events that you mentioned spoke about it at length.
They've recruited because young Muslims have been made to feel like outsiders in their own community as a result of being targeted due to something that is nothing to do with them. Pressuring people, anyone, to denounce an act which is nothing to do with them helps no one but those trying to cause a divide.
The lure of ISIS is multifaceted, if you want to do the whole 'it's all our fault' thing then fine.
Again though, I was only talking about what influence Immans could have regarding the issue within Western Muslim communities as a previously poster implied that they were without any.
That said, I would fully expect government bodies to be speaking to leaders within British Muslim communities on a regular basis regarding the issue with the aim of using their influence to tackle the problem and obtain intelligence.
Again, I would not expect Immans to publicly condemn attacks. You touched upon an important point though: The oversight of governments of who is allowed to act as an Imman and if what they preach is within the constitution and the law of the country. AFAIK, many Immans in Germany, France, UK etc come from and are paid by Saudia Arabia, following the Wahhabism path.
Apparently the prosecutor said that one of those arrested yesterday is the terrorist with the white jacket and dark hat from the airport.
There are plenty of mosques in scandinavia with imams preaching radical islam. A mosque in Gävle collected money to a fund for IS suicide bombers families.
I am curious how influential Muslims feel about the situation, and I wonder if their actions could make a difference that would help everyone. Younger people might listen.
May I ask a question? Are you American?
Both the Paris and Brussels attackers were petty criminals, no strangers to drink and drugs. The Imaams of their local mosque didn't have enough influence to stop them doing that so why do you belive they could stop them becoming Jihadists?
the availability of guns so easily is a strong excuse to get out of the EU I would think.
I'll just pop down the supermarket and buy an AK47
errr. I meant open borders. they are coming from Turkey, middle east?
You don't think there are loads of illegal guns in the UK arriving in containers or by other means every day
is this meant to be serious.
how did the guns in Paris and Belgium come in?
It's been known for many years that it was easy to get guns from Belgium but I hadn't realised just how easy it was, or that they came from the Balkans.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/33a2d592-8dde-11e5-a549-b89a1dfede9b.html
It is well and fine to have strong gun laws. But if people can bring them in from other countries, what is the use? The idea of the EU is a united states of europe.
This may be an area it works against the EU concept.
This may be an area it works against the EU concept.
Sorry I forgot there are no criminals or illegal guns in the UK.
Also only people on mainland Europe know how to make TATP crystals to make the bombs
It is far far easier to get hold of guns in mainland Europe than it is in the UK.
that is too complicated a concept.
I haven't managed to get one yet, but as the point was that it should be a reason for the UK to get out of the EU because it it easy to get guns on mainland Europe, forgetting that the UK is not part of Schengen and has borders where everyone is stopped and checked - what difference does staying in or leaving the EU make?
I am not saying that it will. I was just stating the fact that guns are much easier to get a hold of on mainland Europe.
I have no idea but my point was as stated above and to think someone who wanted to get a gun in the UK couldn't is naïve beyond belief
Well yes, one British Islamic extremist was trying to buy one on the dark web but unfortunately the gun dealer was an FBI agent!
You are right though
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gun-collector-30-weapon-arsenal-7410954
Visit a mosque during Friday prayers and sit at the back, you'll find out if they're speaking out or not.
After one of the attacks in Paris, either BBC or SKY made a documentary in which they spoke to Imans from Paris and people who regularly attend Parisian mosques. They all shared the experience that radicalized people stop attending regular mosques and either go to 'private' mosques - inofficial ones, in a flat, cellar, or garage - with radical 'Imans' or turn towards radical Imans on the internet.
Rather than asking Imans to speak out - which many of them do anyway - it would be IMHO much more important to chase those running these inofficial mosques. The internet will however always be extremely dificult to control.
This.
And nothing's done?
Nothing is done. There is no plan to stop extremism except lousy attemps to increase employment. IS soldiers can return and expect help to get a job and apartment.
Child marriage is also illegal in Sweden but authorities still let hundreds of young girls live with older men in forced marriage. Cultural relativism is above the law.
Do you have a source for that Gavle mosque?
I remember inspecting an armoury in Bosnia once that was the size of a couple of large warehouses and filled to the brim with weapons and ammo. That was just one site.
Here is one. In Swedish though.
http://www.gd.se/gastrikland/gavle/abo-raad-pekas-ut-som-militanta-islamismens-ledare-i-sverige
Anti immigrant protesters waving Nazi salute disrupted the memorial for the Brussels victims today.