I traveled to East couple of weeks after the Paris attacks and was never apprehensive or nervous about it. Visiting a bunch of European cities in May and June and still I am not that nervous. You cannot live in fear. Things are bad across the world and much worse in few parts of the country. Europe is still relatively safer.
Explosions reported at Brussels airport.
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Yeah pointless not to go somewhere in case something happens, anything can happen at any time. Unless terrorists announce a date in which they will attack a location all you can do is go on with your life because terrorist attacks on this scale are not a regular occurrence.
Terrorists might have acted out of urgency after their accomplices arrest.
Lets hope so. Maybe there are no more out there for now
http://neurope.eu/article/brussels-bombers-acted-urgency-abdeslam-arrest/
Lets hope so. Maybe there are no more out there for now
Both French and Belgian media are reporting that a suspected second bomber from the metro attack is being searched for by police.
Our judicial system is being criticized again as well, but we don't quite know if it's justified yet. In 2010, the Brussels Airport bomber Ibrahim El Bakraoui got convicted for armed robbery - 9 years jailtime. He got out at the end of 2014 on probation, but broke his conditions when he was arrested in Turkey in 2015 nearby the Syrian border. Turkey decided to send him back but he could chose where to go to, so he went to Amsterdam and disappeared shortly after. Despite breaking his probation conditions, we weren't bothered to look for him again although Erdogan said he was a dangerous terrorist. At last we ordered a national arrest warrant but failed to find him again. And we all know what happened next of course...
One might argue that countries could spend less time pointlessly policing drugs and spend more resources on doing something effective.
More the former than the latter i think, given the time frame involved. But i also happen to believe that there is a psychological aspect to these contrasting outcomes; how immigrants to the US perceive their identity, what they view as an ideal should citizenship be attained.
Additionally, i think governments are neglectful when it comes to the follow-up. It's as if they see the simple act of welcome them into the country and see that as mob done, liberal credentials affirmed and whatnot.
In either context the number has been comparatively small, as has been the number of US citizens travelling to be foreign fighters.
Serious question: Is it known what proof Erdogan had for it? He's hardly the one who should be defining the gold standard what constitutes a terrorist.
I don't know if true but German media claimed yesterday that several hundred Belgians went to terrorist camps in Syria, Yemen or Iraq and returned to Belgium. Different countries spread different numbers about the resources required to monitor suspects 24/7: The minimum I heard is 10, he maximum 25. If you have several hundreds of suspects as in Belgium (same goes for France, Germany etc), it's next to impossible to get the job done on all of them. Authorities will prioritize and you can just hope they get it right in most cases.
Don't know tbf, He was caught in Gaziantep which is used as the main route to Syria so maybe that's why Erdogan said it. It's still being investigated and a proper timeline hasn't been confirmed yet.
As for the Syria guys, can't say I'm surprised. There were times when teenagers left in groups from Brussels' suburbs to Turkey, but we weren't prepared for that at all. The first terrorists went as early as 2012 and probably came back to Belgium without problems, yes. Parents were livid with the government at the time because they said they were monitoring the issue but couldn't do much about it or something like that, it was a ridiculous situation.
You can't know for sure but I bet there are quite a few Muslims between the age of 18 and 25 currently residing in Belgium who've been to Syria at some point when it was still easy to get back to Belgium. Like always, we didn't keep up with reality and only started acting when it was too late. For example, the Brussels Airport bomber was 'just' a criminal when he went to prison in 2010, yet he came out as a radicalized Jihadist in 2014 - you don't need to be a genius to figure out what happened in that prison. We're currently opening makeshift prisons to isolate radicalized people but the order wasn't given until January and they won't be finished before the end of next month. Like I said, always running behind.
Very true.
Unfortunately, the good guys need to be right every single time while the terrorists only have to get it 'right' once. The odds will always be in the terrorists favour - we just have to hope that the authorities can minimise the impact these terrorists have.
Amazing. Puts to bed a lot of misconceptions, and is just very interesting.
Misconception: These attackers are from Islamic countries.
Misconception: The problem is these attackers are devout Muslims, and do not confirm to western ideals.
And so on and so on. It seems that the only people who were right about this are Muslims who have repeatedly said; "These people are not Muslim."
But they're getting it 'right' once on a regular basis now - even with the high alert around Salah Abdeslam's arrest in Belgium this still happened. Logic would dictate that even the most ambitious terrorist would go to ground until the fuss had died down but that's no longer the case.
It would appear that the brazen confidence of these terrorists grows in direct proportion to the rubbish and disconnected security apparatus.
It seems that these attackers were scared they would be ratted out, so they felt they had no choice but to act.
Which is entirely logical.
But that is just this one cell. With in excess of 5,000 Europeans fighting in Syria and Iraq alone, to say nothing of Africa and those left behind who are sympathetic, the situation is somewhat different to the one we had a couple of decades ago. The Islamist movements of 2016 are either better able or more inclined to launch attacks quickly. And as we saw with the terrorist incidents in Sousse, Ottawa and San Bernardino, it can be as few as or or two persons involved.
I recall one Belgian father who bend over backwards to get his son back and made his anger public. Had a migration background but as I recall from an Eastern European country. His pleas to help him fell on deaf authorities' ears.
This has happened in many countries. IMHO this had in part to do with misunderstood tolerance but even more so that it had become somewhat mainstream to signifanctly reduce public spending on police, justice system, prosecutors, teachers, social workers etc without considering the mid-term consequences. All these areas were pretty dysfunctional for the growing tasks. That's why we're running behind now everywhere.
I'm all for balanced books - but perhaps sometimes it's wiser to think mid-term where to invest and where to cut spending. It can heavily backfire.
I admit though that this is not the only problem. It's multi-facetted and very hard to tackle.
For example, Wolfsburg, Germany, is apparently one of the main German cities from which guys went to Syria (relative to the number of citizens). It's an ugly city, yes, but thanks to VW headquarters (and their taxes) a relatively wealthy city with a lot of immigrants, i.e. from Turkey, Eastern Europe, North Africa, Italy. Unemployment rates are comparably low, also among immigrants, average income comparably high. Germans and immigrants live comfortably together (I have relatives and can confirm from my visits what they say about their daily life). It's one of the cities in Germany in which the anti-Islam movement PEGIDA never demonstrated - because nobody would show up.
And yet, young men left for Syria. Some of those returned had their court trials, and IIRC each of them was employed, had German friends, were know for going out, drinking alcohol, dancing - not a single sign of alienation, unemployment/no chances.
On the matter of radicalization: I heard a Belgian guy who works with radicalized youth in Brussels saying that the speed at which they get radicalized had gone through the roofs, they have more and more cases where it doesn't take longer than 2-6 months. Two months! How do you observe and intervene as a parent, teacher, friend, relative?
It's an enormous task to understand this phenomenon in its complexity and to find solutions, and it won't be done in a short period of time.
That's why it'll never be possible to stop them entirely. These are no longer guys with sophisticated plans, all they need to get hold of are (machine) guns and/or explosives which aren't difficult to get in Europe - and because every city, even the tiniest one, has a number of soft targets which you can't all protect, such sad days will occur again.
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Yes. It comes close to matherto's 'let's nuke them' idea.
Why do you keep asking this?
Have you read 1984?
Damn. I haven't.watched the movie
Must get around to it. I read the reddit post about the guy who played Civ 2 for 10 years though.So very true, but some people probably thought we were practicing taqqiya (sorry for the spelling).
Muslims know these people aren't mainstream, they don't attend mosques and they aren't participants of the overall community.
Radical islam is preached in plenty of mosques in northern Europe. Hundreds of thousands are going to live as outsiders for the rest of their lives so there is plenty of recruitment potential.
Only 30% have a full time job after 8 years in Sweden. After 15 years it plateaus at around 60% employment. Some of it can be explained with discriminating societal structure. But even swedish people without high school education struggle to find employment. There aren't many simple jobs anymore.
Only 30% have a full time job after 8 years in Sweden. After 15 years it plateaus at around 60% employment. Some of it can be explained with discriminating societal structure. But even swedish people without high school education struggle to find employment. There aren't many simple jobs anymore.
http://news.sky.com/story/1666588/us-identifies-third-brussels-airport-bomber
Three of these bombers were on the US terror watch list.
Maybe they could let the Belgians know of any other Belgian citizens who are on their terror watch list.
Three of these bombers were on the US terror watch list.
Maybe they could let the Belgians know of any other Belgian citizens who are on their terror watch list.
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Pretty sure they only give a shit about their own country.
Perhaps Belgium should ask for the names then.
The movie is OK, but predictable observations will be predictable, the book is far better.Damn. I haven't.
As a big Orwell fan that was always the way. From memory John Hurt is good and it has full frontal nudity.
Am I wide of the mark?
Yeah if you are really implying that somehow the U.S. knew the attack was coming and willfully chose not to share info
Considering the stories of Belgian authorities ignoring information given them from other countries, refusing to work with the French after Paris, etc etc etc. Seems trying to piss on the U.S. over this is as dumb as the shit Trump and Cruz have been saying.
Belgium not cooperating with US on counter-terror efforts, official says.
Shortly after last November's attacks on Paris by a Brussels-based Islamic State cell, a top US counter-terrorism official traveling in Europe wanted to visit Brussels to learn more about the investigation.
When the official tried to arrange meetings, however, his Belgian counterparts were not welcoming, according to US officials familiar with the events. The Belgians indicated it was a bad time to speak to foreign officials as they were too busy with the investigation, said the officials, who asked not to be identified.
Belgian officials declined to comment on the incident.
The brush-off was one small sign of mounting US frustration over Brussels' handling of its worsening Islamic militant threat.
Concern that the small European nation's security and intelligence officials are overwhelmed - and that its coordination with allies falls short - have again come to the fore following the Islamic State-claimed attacks on Tuesday that killed at least 31 people.
Several US officials say that security cooperation has been hampered by patchy intelligence-sharing by Brussels and wide differences in the willingness of different agencies to work with foreign countries, even close allies.
One US government source said that when American investigators try to contact Belgian agencies for information, they often struggle to find which agency or part of an agency might have relevant information.
Belgium has ordered a sharp increase in security budgets following the Paris attacks, despite being under steady pressure to limit its debt levels under euro zone rules. The government has promised to recruit around 2,500 more federal police, who pursue major crimes, to make up for a shortfall of close to a fifth of the full-strength force of 12,500.
It also says it thwarted a major attack in January 2015, and is eager to cooperate with European and US counterparts.
"These attacks show that more coordination with the United States is clearly desirable," Guy Rapaille, the president of the committee that provides oversight of Belgium's security and intelligence services, told Belgium's state broadcaster RTBF.
"But you have to remember that big powers guard their intelligence very closely."
US officials acknowledge the recent Belgian efforts to step up funding and recruitment.
Yet they say Belgian security services are outmatched by the threat in a country that, per capita, has supplied the highest number of foreign fighters to Syria of any European nation.
"They're way behind the ball and they're paying a terrible price," Rep. Adam Schiff, ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, told Reuters.
Asked on Wednesday whether Belgium was too complacent over the threat posed by Islamic militancy, State Department spokesman Mark Toner said:
"I want to stay clear of saying that Belgium was somehow caught by surprise or not aware. You know, we collaborate, we work with Belgium closely."
Some US counter-terrorism officials say much of the gap between Washington and Belgium - and some other European countries - is cultural. Europeans' deeper commitment to personal privacy sometimes prevents or delays sharing of information such as travel data -- that is taken for granted in the United States.
After the September 11, 2001 attacks, the US government radically reshaped its counter-terrorism agencies. It broke down walls between law enforcement and intelligence authorities, and created new coordinating institutions such as the Director of National Intelligence and National Counterterrorism Center.
Belgium, by contrast, is a patchwork country divided between French and Dutch speakers and with multiple levels of government.
Belgian security chiefs have repeatedly complained that they cannot handle up to 900 home-grown Islamist militants, among the highest per-capita rates in Europe. Belgium does not divulge the exact number of personnel in its security services and military intelligence, but security experts say they appear under-resourced compared to European counterparts.
"Add to that the problem of two languages (French and Flemish), lack of Arabic speakers, and weak coordination between national and local government, you have a huge discrepancy between threat and response," said former CIA official and White House advisor Bruce Riedel, now at the Brookings Institution.
Erdogan: Belgium ignored Turkey's warning about bomber
One of the attackers in the Brussels suicide bombings was deported last year from Turkey, and Belgium subsequently ignored a warning that the man was a militant, Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Wednesday.
Erdogan's office identified the man as Ibrahim El Bakraoui, one of the two brothers named by Belgium as responsible for the attacks that killed at least 31 people in Brussels on Tuesday and were claimed by the Islamic State group.
In previous cases, officials have said that without evidence of crime, such as having fought in Syria, they cannot jail people deported from Turkey. Among such cases was Brahim Abdeslam, one of the suicide bombers in Paris in November, who was also sent back to Belgium from Turkey early last year.
Erdogan told a news conference that Bakraoui was detained in the southern Turkish province of Gaziantep near the Syrian border and was later deported to the Netherlands. Turkey also notified Dutch authorities, Erdogan said.
A Dutch government official said Erdogan's comments were "being carefully looked into," but that they could not yet say if El Bakraoui had been in the Netherlands.
"One of the attackers in Brussels is an individual we detained in Gaziantep in June 2015 and deported. We reported the deportation to the Belgian Embassy in Ankara on July 14, 2015, but he was later set free," Erdogan said.
"Belgium ignored our warning that this person is a foreign fighter."
Erdogan's office confirmed that Bakraoui was deported to the Netherlands. It said he was later released by Belgian authorities as "no links with terrorism" were found. It was not clear when Bakraoui was handed over to Belgian authorities.
Erdogan initially said Bakraoui was deported in June. His office later said he was detained in June and deported in July.
Belgian newspaper Le Soir quoted Justice Minister Koen Geens as confirming Bakraoui was deported to the Netherlands. Geens' spokesman could not be immediately reached for comment.
The attacks in Brussels came just days after a suspected Islamic State suicide bomber blew himself up in Istanbul's most popular shopping district, killing three Israelis and an Iranian and wounding dozens.
Shortly after last November's attacks on Paris by a Brussels-based Islamic State cell, a top US counter-terrorism official traveling in Europe wanted to visit Brussels to learn more about the investigation.
When the official tried to arrange meetings, however, his Belgian counterparts were not welcoming, according to US officials familiar with the events. The Belgians indicated it was a bad time to speak to foreign officials as they were too busy with the investigation, said the officials, who asked not to be identified.
Belgian officials declined to comment on the incident.
The brush-off was one small sign of mounting US frustration over Brussels' handling of its worsening Islamic militant threat.
Concern that the small European nation's security and intelligence officials are overwhelmed - and that its coordination with allies falls short - have again come to the fore following the Islamic State-claimed attacks on Tuesday that killed at least 31 people.
Several US officials say that security cooperation has been hampered by patchy intelligence-sharing by Brussels and wide differences in the willingness of different agencies to work with foreign countries, even close allies.
One US government source said that when American investigators try to contact Belgian agencies for information, they often struggle to find which agency or part of an agency might have relevant information.
Belgium has ordered a sharp increase in security budgets following the Paris attacks, despite being under steady pressure to limit its debt levels under euro zone rules. The government has promised to recruit around 2,500 more federal police, who pursue major crimes, to make up for a shortfall of close to a fifth of the full-strength force of 12,500.
It also says it thwarted a major attack in January 2015, and is eager to cooperate with European and US counterparts.
"These attacks show that more coordination with the United States is clearly desirable," Guy Rapaille, the president of the committee that provides oversight of Belgium's security and intelligence services, told Belgium's state broadcaster RTBF.
"But you have to remember that big powers guard their intelligence very closely."
US officials acknowledge the recent Belgian efforts to step up funding and recruitment.
Yet they say Belgian security services are outmatched by the threat in a country that, per capita, has supplied the highest number of foreign fighters to Syria of any European nation.
"They're way behind the ball and they're paying a terrible price," Rep. Adam Schiff, ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, told Reuters.
Asked on Wednesday whether Belgium was too complacent over the threat posed by Islamic militancy, State Department spokesman Mark Toner said:
"I want to stay clear of saying that Belgium was somehow caught by surprise or not aware. You know, we collaborate, we work with Belgium closely."
Some US counter-terrorism officials say much of the gap between Washington and Belgium - and some other European countries - is cultural. Europeans' deeper commitment to personal privacy sometimes prevents or delays sharing of information such as travel data -- that is taken for granted in the United States.
After the September 11, 2001 attacks, the US government radically reshaped its counter-terrorism agencies. It broke down walls between law enforcement and intelligence authorities, and created new coordinating institutions such as the Director of National Intelligence and National Counterterrorism Center.
Belgium, by contrast, is a patchwork country divided between French and Dutch speakers and with multiple levels of government.
Belgian security chiefs have repeatedly complained that they cannot handle up to 900 home-grown Islamist militants, among the highest per-capita rates in Europe. Belgium does not divulge the exact number of personnel in its security services and military intelligence, but security experts say they appear under-resourced compared to European counterparts.
"Add to that the problem of two languages (French and Flemish), lack of Arabic speakers, and weak coordination between national and local government, you have a huge discrepancy between threat and response," said former CIA official and White House advisor Bruce Riedel, now at the Brookings Institution.
Erdogan: Belgium ignored Turkey's warning about bomber
One of the attackers in the Brussels suicide bombings was deported last year from Turkey, and Belgium subsequently ignored a warning that the man was a militant, Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Wednesday.
Erdogan's office identified the man as Ibrahim El Bakraoui, one of the two brothers named by Belgium as responsible for the attacks that killed at least 31 people in Brussels on Tuesday and were claimed by the Islamic State group.
In previous cases, officials have said that without evidence of crime, such as having fought in Syria, they cannot jail people deported from Turkey. Among such cases was Brahim Abdeslam, one of the suicide bombers in Paris in November, who was also sent back to Belgium from Turkey early last year.
Erdogan told a news conference that Bakraoui was detained in the southern Turkish province of Gaziantep near the Syrian border and was later deported to the Netherlands. Turkey also notified Dutch authorities, Erdogan said.
A Dutch government official said Erdogan's comments were "being carefully looked into," but that they could not yet say if El Bakraoui had been in the Netherlands.
"One of the attackers in Brussels is an individual we detained in Gaziantep in June 2015 and deported. We reported the deportation to the Belgian Embassy in Ankara on July 14, 2015, but he was later set free," Erdogan said.
"Belgium ignored our warning that this person is a foreign fighter."
Erdogan's office confirmed that Bakraoui was deported to the Netherlands. It said he was later released by Belgian authorities as "no links with terrorism" were found. It was not clear when Bakraoui was handed over to Belgian authorities.
Erdogan initially said Bakraoui was deported in June. His office later said he was detained in June and deported in July.
Belgian newspaper Le Soir quoted Justice Minister Koen Geens as confirming Bakraoui was deported to the Netherlands. Geens' spokesman could not be immediately reached for comment.
The attacks in Brussels came just days after a suspected Islamic State suicide bomber blew himself up in Istanbul's most popular shopping district, killing three Israelis and an Iranian and wounding dozens.
By way of supporting evidence for JustAFan's post, you might be interested in this article from a few days ago :: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...go.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
The concern surrounding Belgian preparedness was no minor qualm, quite the contrary if this is to be believed.
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Oh dear...
No, of course I wasn't implying that the US authorities had prior knowledge of the attack, but the world's security services really need to share a lot more.
Personally, my honest opinion is that alot of the world's security services have narcissistic (for want of a better word) tendencies about their own abilities, and to be told information about subjects in their own countries that they may not know hurts them.
dear oh dear that is appalling.
Shameful behaviour, particularly under the circumstances.
Feck this planet. There are too many stupid people here.
Yeah, ironically enough, Iran or Dubai may be as safe for me as a quite obvious American candidate (tall, fair skinned, propensity for alcohol) as Mexico.
I'm more worried about sporting events, personally.