European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?

  • Total voters
    1,921
  • Poll closed .
sparx99 said:
And yet it’s much more interesting to see Man Utd vs Milan than Man Utd vs Granada even though it was a later round of the tournament.

In many ways it’s just a stronger version of the seeding and coefficient system. I don’t love it. Particular as the European cup trophy is so iconic but let’s judge the CL with the same eyes.

If it was all fair then any team should be drawn with any other in the group stage. Why not have two English teams in the same group? Why not have groups of death? Football has always prioritised the big clubs.
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We faced Granada in EL not CL, this is really a weird comparison.
 
Shipperley said:
I wouldn’t be so sure on that, I think his position will be to offer the selfish six an amicable solution and present outwardly that he is eager to find a solution, he’s a clever man. If that doesn’t work then I 100% think he’d vote to kick them out.
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What? The whole reason they’re against it is because it will potentially dilute the PL in the long run and the gold it brings. Why would they ensure that happens by kicking out the big 6 - guaranteeing the PL is fecked, the ESL happens and opening them up to all sorts of legal lawsuits from sponsors and Media firms? They need the 6 to think they’ll do it to stop the ESL but they can’t really do it if you think it through logically. Players or the Govt. are the only way this is stopped.
 
The main issues are SIX being from prem, no clear pyramid and the founding teams being untouchable and obviously missing German teams and PSG etc.

I think its just a power play to try to get what they want.
 
Giggs86 said:
Does anyone really thinks FIFA will ban players from representing their countries? Are they really that naive to think that anyone will bother watching a World Cup without 150 of the best players in the world in it?
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Fans and players are the base upon which the football empire is built. UEFA/FIFA are trying to intimidate clubs by going after their second most asset valuable asset because they know that the fans are a no go, it's all hot air but it's all they have and if enough players crack then they win but with agents like Raiola I don't see it happening.
 
Klopper76 said:
I’d like to hear the opinion of supporters of teams like Bayern, Real, Barcelona, PSG etc on here. How’s the reaction to this amongst your fan bases been?
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I haven't read a single Bayern fan that is NOT happy about the fact the we refused to join. Same for Dortmund fans.
In general all the german football fans seem to be very strictly against this. But what is happening now, is also what many fans feared for years in discussions about 50+1 (in germany a club may only sell up to 49% of the club to investors in order so still retain control) and the stance against foreign investors.
 
Gasolin said:
I’m sure they would have broken FA and FIFA rules though.
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The thing that they may or may not have broken the moment they announced the league is at least article 73 of the statutes.

73 Authorisation Associations, leagues or clubs that are affiliated to a member association may only join another member association or take part in competitions on that member association’s territory under exceptional circumstances. In each case, authorisation must be given by both member associations, the respective confederations) and by FIFA.
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But as always with FIFA the rules are too large, too powerful and it's easy to see why they could be at risk in civil courts. But you have to go to civil courts which isn't a quick affair.
 
pratyush_utd said:
I hate bloody English media. United were big club because of their shrewd investment and great academy which funded our success. Chelsea got russian oligarchs and City got Abu Dhabi natural resource to pay for their success but apparently they are the saviour of English game. It's because of them, this has happened. How thick you have to be to not understand that. They keep saying competition but in what world competition is fair when you have to compete with bottomless pit of money?

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Obviously what he is saying is bollocks, Chelsea and City didn't make things more competitive, in fact the winning points totals of the last few seasons suggest quite the opposite.

However I am inclined to believe that they may not have been the instigators but went along with it because their shiny toy must play with the other shiny toys. They have no need for extra investment and they bought teams as play things or state propaganda. Its the clubs like United, Liverpool and Real who don't have bottomless pits of money and are feeling the burn of the pandemic that would have a bigger business need to make a deal like this to safeguard their future.

I doubt City and Chelsea realised how badly it would be handled from a PR perspective and now it will risk their CL semi final spot. I am sure they are looking for ways to exit this mess ASAP.
 
Klopper76 said:
I’d like to hear the opinion of supporters of teams like Bayern, Real, Barcelona, PSG etc on here. How’s the reaction to this amongst your fan bases been?
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I'm a Barca supporter and I don't know yet.

One the one hand, I support the destruction of the mafia organization called Uefa. I hate everything they stand for and Perez is totally right when he said, that we know every salary of football players, but we dont know the salary of Ceferin. Uefa plays it's part as the middleman and organizer, but takes way too much money from the work of the clubs and players. The teams are not their property and it's about time they learned it the hard way. We saw yesterday the real Ceferin. When Uefa didn't have the time to prepare a polite answer. When Ceferin wasn't briefed by his lawyers. We saw what kind of a man he is. Just insulting people and clubs and reading a text, on a topic where every footballfan could or better said should speak from his heart.

On the other hand I fear for the emotions of football. A league without relegations and guarateed spots could become stale very fast. What makes football so exciting is, that nearly every match counts for something. This would change with the new format of the ESL. Half the league getting into the playoffs anyways. So whats the point in being the 1st? Money? Its not something the fans get excited for. How is this different to wait for CL quater finals like Perez said or the ESL playoffs? Or if for example Arsenal loses the first 5 games, why should they even compete after that? They can't get relegated, so why should they care if they are last? Thats something I'm afraid of, but then again, ESL can also have reforms as the CL does every few years.

What I dont believe in, is that the ESL will be the death of football and the small teams. What will change? The big teams buy every good players anyways today. So the only thing that will change is the transfer fee of those players. Haaland will cost 200 Mio instead of 100 Mio. But he will go anyway to a big club, ESL or not. So the status quo of football will not change in my opinion. It will stay the same. The same teams will compete in the domestic leagues, the same teams will buy all the good players. Football is for a lot of years already devided into elite clubs and the rest.
 
So many of these players, ex-managers and spokespeople for current league and cup competitions speaking out against the super league are hugely responsible for creating this monster.

Alex Ferguson has come out and blasted the competition but is the same person that had that stupid falling out with one of United's biggest stakeholders of a bloody racing horse and then went on to back the glazers ownership of the club and even going as far to say that fans should go and support another club if they don't like them being in charge, well maybe sir alex should go and do the same now as it is the glazers with Woodward that has spearheaded this idea.

You got players like ozil speaking out about it but he was happy to insult ticket paying arsenal fans with his half assed displays and was also happy to just sit at home and see out his lucrative contract with the club because he cared more about picking up his precious undeserved wages over playing competitive football.

Then you got the premier league/champions league that have done nothing but apologetic and glorified these dirty oil rich funded clubs who have created a hugely unfair playing field that has created a mentality of if you can't beat them, join them across football.
 
Cassidy said:
You still cant buy everyone
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There are 19 others with Tottenham as one of the very bottom. How many of the rest Tottenham can buy with that much competition? As stated, this is only the start to get ESL wheel moving. More teams will get invited. Being in a year a few prior doesn't help Spurs over the newly invited if Spurs doesn't win it within that period.
 
Everyone should calm their tits for now, the way UEFA and the media are driving their own narrative screams of hypocrisy. They give zero fecks about the fans and it's always about the money.
 
el3mel said:
We faced Granada in EL not CL, this is really a weird comparison.
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Viewing figures for games involving the likes of us, Barcelona, Madrid etc are always higher than those involving teams like Leipzig or Napoli. The hype around us v Milan in a damp squib round of 16 game was amongst the biggest the EL has ever had. That's what it comes down to. The CL has become too big and diluted.

I'm not sure why Spurs are being allowed in to this.
 
ti vu said:
There are 19 others with Tottenham as one of the very bottom. How many of the rest Tottenham can buy with that much competition? As stated, this is only the start to get ESL wheel moving. More teams will get invited. Being in a year a few prior doesn't help Spurs over the newly invited if Spurs doesn't win it within that period.
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There are 14 others actually and Spurs wont be at the bottom. Im not saying the will win it, Im saying with the salary cap etc over time it will even itself out. Player salaries will obviously be higher as much as revenues will be higher so you are not just going to be able to stockpile 22 world class players and there are more than enough top players to go around 14 sides across Europe (we have more than 14 top sides already)
 
Mickeza said:
If they don’t get control of the media revenue streams how does the club keep growing? Sponsorships and TV deals are going down not up.
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Maybe, but again, who will force them to sell? Nobody, unfortunately. It was tried in the past 15 years, and this ESL disaster won't change that. They still have their nice dividends, and they will continue to squeeze the club for more money. They won't give up on that
 
11101 said:
Viewing figures for games involving the likes of us, Barcelona, Madrid etc are always higher than those involving teams like Leipzig or Napoli. The hype around us v Milan in a damp squib round of 16 game was amongst the biggest the EL has ever had. That's what it comes down to. The CL has become too big and diluted.

I'm not sure why Spurs are being allowed in to this.
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If we had got out of the group we would have faced Madrid or Barca or City or whatever in later rounds. It's really our problem that we were shit and lost to a Turkish team in the group and got KOed to face Granada and shit in EL. It's what we deserved. If we want to face the top clubs we have to earn it. That's how this sport has always worked.
 
Cassidy said:
They completed the stadium and thus knew the had funds quite obviously. The UCL also boosted their funds quite obviously.
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Completed the stadium but they had the stadium to service, and the stadium was not ready at the start of that season, and the revenue was short lived with COVID halted the season.

Without using the unused available fund of previous no spent season, no amount CL prize money would cover for Spurs expenses.
 
Lee565 said:
So many of these players, ex-managers and spokespeople for current league and cup competitions speaking out against the super league are hugely responsible for creating this monster.

Alex Ferguson has come out and blasted the competition but is the same person that had that stupid falling out with one of United's biggest stakeholders of a bloody racing horse and then went on to back the glazers ownership of the club and even going as far to say that fans should go and support another club if they don't like them being in charge, well maybe sir alex should go and do the same now as it is the glazers with Woodward that has spearheaded this idea.

You got players like ozil speaking out about it but he was happy to insult ticket paying arsenal fans with his half assed displays and was also happy to just sit at home and see out his lucrative contract with the club because he cared more about picking up his precious undeserved wages over playing competitive football.

Then you got the premier league/champions league that have done nothing but apologetic and glorified these dirty oil rich funded clubs who have created a hugely unfair playing field that has created a mentality of if you can't beat them, join them across football.
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In that case we're all complicit as fans then for buying merchandise or paying to subscribe to sky / BT. I get the point you are making (and you're not wrong) but I don't know what good it will do to point fingers elsewhere, this has all come about through the machinations of a billionaire elite with no interest in the sport and only caring about making more money.

I've been a Glazer apologist for quite some time, I didn't like how they ran the club but I felt they had some sort of a social conscience. They invested quite a bit of money (albeit very badly at times) and took a healthy dividend for themselves. I felt this was as good as you might hope for in a now business driven sport and that while they continue to sign good players, hold managers accountable, continually look to improve and keep the fans onside (with no furlough of staff, supporting the NHS, frozen season ticket prices etc) that it was at least better the devil you know.

Its clear though that they've been really just waiting for the right time to exploit United's fanbase and make as much money as they can.
 
Mickeza said:
What? The whole reason they’re against it is because it will potentially dilute the PL in the long run and the gold it brings. Why would they ensure that happens by kicking out the big 6 - guaranteeing the PL is fecked, the ESL happens and opening them up to all sorts of legal lawsuits from sponsors and Media firms? They need the 6 to think they’ll do it to stop the ESL but they can’t really do it if you think it through logically. Players or the Govt. are the only way this is stopped.
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Secretly, would the FA not love 6 or 7 SL clubs in their league? It would be a sort of mini SL on its own with fresh matchups.
 
ti vu said:
Completed the stadium but they had the stadium to service, and the stadium was not ready at the start of that season, and the revenue was short lived with COVID halted the season.

Without using the unused available fund of previous no spent season, no amount CL prize money would cover for Spurs expenses.
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Yes the previous season they didnt know when the Stadium would be completed due to delays. So obviously you need to keep funds around as you dont know what your expenses will be. Once its completed that free up funds
 
Escobar said:
Maybe, but again, who will force them to sell? Nobody, unfortunately. It was tried in the past 15 years, and this ESL disaster won't change that. They still have their nice dividends, and they will continue to squeeze the club for more money. They won't give up on that
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The fact their golden goose has reached its peak will force them to sell. Maybe Boris will step in...if we all whip a petition together the man will do anything for some populism.
 
Mickeza said:
The fact their golden goose has reached its peak will force them to sell. Maybe Boris will step in...if we all whip a petition together the man will do anything for some populism.
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Sounds more wishful thinking than anything else. And they still make a shitload of money without investing a penny. So what's there not to like for them
 
steeeb said:
The main issues are SIX being from prem, no clear pyramid and the founding teams being untouchable and obviously missing German teams and PSG etc.

I think its just a power play to try to get what they want.
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Yeah, I think the same way.

UEFA make 3.3 billion off the euro games per season apparently, that is a lot of money the old model meant that the clubs would earn off the gates with that gone the big teams want a bigger slice of UEFA money and most probably FIFAs which make obscene amounts of money.
 
Cassidy said:
There are 14 others actually and Spurs wont be at the bottom. Im not saying the will win it, Im saying with the salary cap etc over time it will even itself out. Player salaries will obviously be higher as much as revenues will be higher so you are not just going to be able to stockpile 22 world class players and there are more than enough top players to go around 14 sides across Europe (we have more than 14 top sides already)
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This format needs 20 teams initially. 15 founder members. Some teams are made founder teams as they're ready to stick their head out for the sake of inclusion.

It's not that the 15 privileged would stay as is this small forever. They just need to make the first edition ESL available ASAP. Next they would be looking at expanding it, and letting more teams join the privileged. Founding members means shite without the glamor. Perez and the briefing to the media without failing to mention their intention of claiming their European successes in UEFA competition. Spurs tally as is stays 0. If Porto, Benfica, Ajax... joins in few years time, with Spurs not winning in anything in the mean while, we know what it is heading with trophies count.
 
ti vu said:
This format needs 20 teams initially. 15 founder members. Some teams are made founder teams as they're ready to stick their head out for the sake of inclusion.

It's not that the 15 privileged would stay as is this small forever. They just need to make the first edition ESL available ASAP. Next they would be looking at expanding it, and letting more teams join the privileged. Founding members means shite without the glamor. Perez and the briefing to the media without failing to mention their intention of claiming their European successes in UEFA competition. Spurs tally as is stays 0. If Porto, Benfica, Ajax... joins in few years time, with Spurs not winning in anything in the mean while, we know what it is heading with trophies count.
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The 15 founders teams will have more access to money than the other 5 quite clearly and over a more sustained period since they are guaranteed entry.
 
cyberman said:
Secretly, would the FA not love 6 or 7 SL clubs in their league? It would be a sort of mini SL on its own with fresh matchups.
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But they need to bow to the Big Picture(? Forgot the name) proposed by 6 SL, as SL need more space to fit all the extra their games with already crammed schedule.
 
Kostov said:
Everyone should calm their tits for now, the way UEFA and the media are driving their own narrative screams of hypocrisy. They give zero fecks about the fans and it's always about the money.
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UEFA are obviously no saints and have come up with so many stupid ideas in the past. But now is not the time to shit on them and I can’t understand why some people are doing this.

Real life incarnations of Mr. Burns (The Simpsons character) are threatening our very principles and traditions of football. How many leagues are there across Europe? These billionaire owners that bought historic clubs that they didn’t help build are now trying to suck the game dry like leeches. Creating a competition where this randomly selected group of “founding fathers” are breaking away from the rest of European football in order to maximize their profits. They’re basically trying to turn European football into what would essentially be the American sports franchise system. They’re basing their positions on sporting achievements of historic teams from the past. None of these billionaires have anything to do with those historic successes.

15 clubs that for no objective reason would now be exempt from relegation and are just trying to cheat themselves ahead of competition. Leicester are potentially qualifying for the CL this season. “So what” say Arsenal. If Arsenal for example can’t qualify based on their sporting performances, they’ll just join a new competition where their performances don’t matter and they can never not make it. Meanwhile Leicester’s ambitions, all they achieved in the last 10 years to establish themselves through good work, is rendered meaningless because their competitors are just switching to a new competition where they get granted automatic qualification.

What happens to a league’s race for European qualification when barely any of the top clubs want to participate in the regular European competitions from now on. CL and EL would become a joke? But they can’t be scrapped either as then the other clubs just have nothing left to play for.

There are only 5 spots for additional teams from all leagues across Europe. For the next 23 years!!! What about the other leagues that are fighting themselves up the 5 year ranking in order to be granted more European qualification spots.

Why would one league out of all of Europe’s leagues be granted almost a third of the total amount of spots within the super league through automatic qualification. Then the other English teams could presumably still fight for a 7th qualification slot as well. How is it a European competition with 7 English sides but none from 95% of Europe’s other countries.

Greedy bastards, the lot of them. Taking away the dreams ambitions of the smaller teams because the hundreds of millions that they make are still not enough.
 
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steeeb said:
The main issues are SIX being from prem, no clear pyramid and the founding teams being untouchable and obviously missing German teams and PSG etc.

I think its just a power play to try to get what they want.
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This is it. If PSG/Dortmund/Bayern aren't the 3 teams meant to be coming in, then who is it? If they were holding back from being included in the initial wave for whatever reason, why would they jump in now after the reception it's received?

Maybe I'm looking at it in the wrong way thinking it couldn't possibly work with 6 PL clubs by comparing it with the existing UCL format, although we are currently overrepresented there compared to other countries too so it's not much of a leap.
 
steeeb said:
The main issues are SIX being from prem, no clear pyramid and the founding teams being untouchable and obviously missing German teams and PSG etc.

I think its just a power play to try to get what they want.
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Definitely how can you have a european super league but not teams from all the major football countries in europe? Makes no sense, where is the interest for the portguese broadcaster when there is no Benfica, Porto, Sporting Lisbon? Wheres the dutch interest without Ajax, Feyenoord & PSV? Turkish interest without Gala, Fenebache? French interest without PSG, Marseille and Lyon?

Its a half baked idea driven by greed and nothing else, pure financial greed.
 
If you put all of the major issues aside does anyone else worry that the other clubs will use the huge increase in revenue to build super teams whilst ours will just inflate the Glazers bank account and we will end up getting battered very frequently?
 
Shipperley said:
I wouldn’t be so sure on that, I think his position will be to offer the selfish six an amicable solution and present outwardly that he is eager to find a solution, he’s a clever man. If that doesn’t work then I 100% think he’d vote to kick them out.
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No it won't happen. TV money would evaporate and let's face it, without TV money, none of those 14 will survive.
 
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