European Super League

[tjb]

That's the thing though. Those players and clubs became famous over time because of their success. Twenty years ago Chelsea were not a big club, same as Spurs. Leeds used to be a big club until their downfall.

This super league will essentially create a franchise teams like in the US. There won't be a room for a new successful club like Leicester who are slowly getting to a pretty decent level.

Owners of those founders clubs won't give a damn if their players are no longer up to it because of age or form. Until now they had to rebuilt squads because of the champions league money. In the super league why would they invest money in a new squad if they could just rebuilt slowly for cheap while being last all the time and pocketing those huge earnings themselves? It's a recipe for disaster.

And I personally find it disrespecting when they talk of European super league while only clubs from 3 or 4 countries will play in it. In the age before tv money there were successful european clubs who are nowadays just happy if they manage to qualify for the group stages of the CL. It's a disgrace in my opinion.

I agree. However, its on UEFA to find a compromise. If these clubs feel UEFA as a governing body are profiteering and they have a right to question it. The teams that feature the most in these competitions felt the need to collude and break away as strong faction. If they feel that UEFA have unfairly managed affairs, they would be justified in breaking away.

They essentially told UEFA that the benefits of participating in their competition were not enough to justify how much UEFA makes from simply featuring them. Its up to UEFA to come up with a compromise that favors all parties involved and not move forward the champions league expansion. If it means increasing revenues based on viewership or adjusting their economic model for these competitions, so be it.

 

[tjb]

That's incredibly naive, of course it's greed.

Any reason other than greed, and the idea of an European Super-League, which could potentially have a lot of other merits, would have materialized in a different way: Namely by not having fixed spots and having solely sportive merit at the basis of the initial choice of members. Also by not including 6 clubs from a single country, a few of them only there because they are filthy rich or have the potential for generating wealth.

The need to break away may not have been greed....UEFA have been horrible in their dealing with the bigger clubs over the past decade. The creation of the super league with its terms is greed.

 

[njred]

United or Liverpool need to step back from this. One of the two really need to rethink, step back and the other will follow. The whole “ who is the most successful club in the land” will stop dead flat. If this greedy league starts and one of us wins it I wouldn’t fecking care. Var was bad enough and we kind of got used to that disaster. This is different. You can gloat all you want if you win it.

 

[sglowrider]

What about the long term? What about the football pyramid where the Premier League's massive financial power trickles down (even in a small way) all the way to the smallest teams in the farthest parts of the country?
Without that structure football falls apart completely. No more constant conveyor belt of players where cream rises to the top and in some way is balanced out to provide some competition.
Yes this will provide massive financial gains to the clubs involved but it is short sighted and immensely damaging to the entire game.

I bet people said the same thing (greed, killing the game etc) when the same club owners proposed the PL some 30 years ago.

In fact they did. I am old enough to remember it.

 

[Amadaeus]

If Pochettino wasn’t there manager, do you honestly believe they would be considered for this? You may laugh at it, but it is the truth. Pochettino transformed a mid table club like Tottenham, to be considered to be part of the big boys. With Pochettino gone and Kane about to leave, spurs will go back to mediocrity (as is already starting since Pochettino left)

 

[Tonicruise]

One of the appealing reasons i follow the EPL is the top 4 race. Cheering for the underdogs Lecister and WHU etc to make it to the CL, now thats gone too, what are we left with? Those upsets will become impossible as with the ESL top teams will have an increasing demand for bigger squads which is gonna hurt the Lecister, WHU and wolves the most as their top players will be preyed upon by the top 6 even more than today with that absurd amount of money they will recieve upon joining the ESL and then every season will make it impossible for any other team to even have a chance of creating an upset.

A very sad day for football indeed.

 

[Tibs]

Is it too late for this to be cancelled?

 

[Sir Matt]

United or Liverpool need to step back from this. One of the two really need to rethink, step back and the other will follow. The whole “ who is the most successful club in the land” will stop dead flat. If this greedy league starts and one of us wins it I wouldn’t fecking care. Var was bad enough and we kind of got used to that disaster. This is different. You can gloat all you want if you win it.

The Glazers and FSG have been driving forces behind this whole process so they aren't going to budge unless it fails miserably and they have no choice. If that's the case, hopefully the Glazers decide to sell up. American "investor" owners don't care at all about the sporting aspect of owning a football team. They just want their asset to increase in value and guarantee financial returns.

 

[Arruda]

The need to break away may not have been greed....UEFA have been horrible in their dealing with the bigger clubs over the past decade. The creation of the super league with its terms is greed.

UEFA has been horrible in their dealing with the "bigger clubs"? Specifically? As in more terrible with them than with every other club?

Greed from UEFA is in the form of corruption from the people in charge of it, because otherwise UEFA is not a corporation designed for profit, it's an associative body to govern football. People in charge of those 6 British clubs, for example, are in it for straight profit and/or influence. These are significantly different types of greed, because one is a flaw of the system, which can ultimately be corrected, the other is just inherent to it, i.e., people who own the power in those clubs aren't really in it because they love football as a sport.

As an associative body, UEFA rules, and it's competitions line of evolution in the last decades, is incredibly biased towards maintaining status quo. But they still have to maintain a resemblance of being an associative body with same rules for all, etc. This completely breaks away from it in that core principle of 15 clubs who have their presence guaranteed.

And if we're honest, this is the only way to maximize profit in a straight-profit corporate world. Just don't fool yourself. These clubs aren't breaking away from UEFA to create a fairer and more functional sportive competition. If they were, they would have organized this in a completely different way, with completely different principles.

 

[Arruda]

What is Real Madrid's fans take on this, anyone knows? And Barcelona?

Unlike British fans, those can kick their presidents out and make this not happen. This would probably be the most likely way that can prevent this from happening, but I have no idea what their mood is in relation to this.

 

[bosnian_red]

How fecked is it that Leipzig are the other club that is going to join Such a blatant money grab. Disgusting.

 

[caid]

UEFA have bent over backwards to accommodate the big clubs. The idea they're short changing them is laughable.

 

[el3mel]

What is Real Madrid's fans take on this, anyone knows? And Barcelona?

Unlike British fans, those can kick their presidents out and make this not happen. This would probably be the most likely way that can prevent this from happening, but I have no idea what their mood is in relation to this.

I don't think any one can kick Perez out of his position. Don't Madrid fans like him in general anyway? Or that's what I always thought.

 

[YzWayne]

Not sure it has been asked in the earlier post but as a player, by playing at the ESL means that they might not be able to participate in the world cup / Euros anymore. Why would a player accept that? What can the player do though as they are still contracted to the respective clubs?

 

[tjb]

UEFA has been horrible in their dealing with the "bigger clubs"? Specifically? As in more terrible with them than with every other club?

Greed from UEFA is in the form of corruption from the people in charge of it, because otherwise UEFA is not a corporation designed for profit, it's an associative body to govern football. People in charge of those 6 British clubs, for example, are in it for straight profit and/or influence. These are significantly different types of greed, because one is a flaw of the system, which can ultimately be corrected, the other is just inherent to it, i.e., people who own the power in those clubs aren't really in it because they love football as a sport.

As an associative body, UEFA rules, and it's competitions line of evolution in the last decades, is incredibly biased towards maintaining status quo. But they still have to maintain a resemblance of being an associative body with same rules for all, etc. This completely breaks away from it in that core principle of 15 clubs who have their presence guaranteed.

And if we're honest, this is the only way to maximize profit in a straight-profit corporate world. Just don't fool yourself. These clubs aren't breaking away from UEFA to create a fairer and more functional sportive competition. If they were, they would have organized this in a completely different way, with completely different principles.

Greater discussions with their main participants before deciding to change the UCL format

The transfer bans they've imposed on big teams for bogus reasons leading to potential losses in earnings

Their failure to properly impose FFP

Their decision to create the UEFA Nations League encouraging fixture pile up

According to the clubs, disproportionate distribution of earnings, UEFA as a body receives too much

In terms of the FA:

Bogus and arrogant rulings like the one for Cavani and examples set against players at big clubs

Punishments for rightful complaining about poor refereeing decisions

Imposition of home grown rule making local markets more difficult to navigate for bigger clubs without consultation and voting on the issue

 

[tjb]

Not sure it has been asked in the earlier post but as a player, by playing at the ESL means that they might not be able to participate in the world cup / Euros anymore. Why would a player accept that? What can the player do though as they are still contracted to the respective clubs?

It doesn't make sense. That was a poor statement imo. They may as well cancel the Euros for the forseeable future.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

If this results in United not competing in the PL that's probably me done with European football to be honest.

Might seem dramatic but it feels like something died in football today, feels like a nightmare. Can only hope it doesn't go through.

 

[Arruda]

I don't think any one can kick Perez out of his position. Don't Madrid fans like him in general anyway? Or that's what I always thought.

He's elected. And though his term is until 2025 I'm almost sure there ways of invoking extraordinary assemblies and anticipating elections if a given number of sócios wants it. It's always the case in this type of ownership (Portuguese clubs are run in the same way).

No matter how much they like him, this is a radical enough idea to make them change in regards to that. It's akin to a president of a country deciding something like Brexit. He can only do it with the majority of support, no matter how much they adored him prior to this decision. The only way he can do this if he sells this idea to the majority of Real Madrid fans. Which I guess may very well be the case, I just don't know. What I mean is that the idea that this can happen against the wishes of fans is not valid for the Spanish clubs.

 

[el3mel]

Not sure it has been asked in the earlier post but as a player, by playing at the ESL means that they might not be able to participate in the world cup / Euros anymore. Why would a player accept that? What can the player do though as they are still contracted to the respective clubs?

This point is still not confirmed. I think they will still be allowed, I guess.

Though if it happens, then I honestly think many players nowadays care about clubs money more than playing in World Cup anyway. International tournaments haven't been as important as they used to be several years ago imo. A lot of top players nowadays actually play for national teams who have no hope to compete at World Cup. I honestly don't think they will care that much.

But still, I think this particular point won't happen and they will let the players play normally.

 

[Steamboat Willy]

This is by far, the worst decision in modern day football.

This whole thing with prefixed participants, who get the biggerst share og money no matter how Arsenal-like they compete, is totally against the spirit og football, well actually against the idea og sports in general.

Every club, and player, who participates in this freakshow should be banned from playing in any otter tournament. Foreign and domestic.

I for my selv can’t keep supporting United or enjoy football anymore without the element if free competition. (Which was already challenged heavily by Oil-“clubs”.

“Fans” who watch this, may as well just watch youtube-highlights, that is also great players performing there skills, with no element of real competition.

I’m out.

 

[el3mel]

He's elected. And though his term is until 2025 I'm almost sure there ways of invoking extraordinary assemblies and anticipating elections if a given number of sócios wants it. It's always the case in this type of ownership (Portuguese clubs are run in the same way).

No matter how much they like him, this is a radical enough idea to make them change in regards to that. It's akin to a president of a country deciding something like Brexit. He can only do it with the majority of support, no matter how much they adored him prior to this decision. The only way he can do this if he sells this idea to the majority of Real Madrid fans. Which I guess may very well be the case, I just don't know. What I mean is that the idea that this can happen against the wishes of fans is not valid for the Spanish clubs.

Honestly don't know. I don't think Real Madrid have an English forum like us to see their reaction. We will need someone fluent in Spanish to tell us what they are saying on Twitter.

What about Barca fans as well? Didn't they just get a new elected president?

 

[lysglimt]

I guess we can't hope for the players of these clubs going together to stop this idea by demanding a transfer to a club outside. That is my hope now.

 

[njred]

The Glazers and FSG have been driving forces behind this whole process so they aren't going to budge unless it fails miserably and they have no choice. If that's the case, hopefully the Glazers decide to sell up. American "investor" owners don't care at all about the sporting aspect of owning a football team. They just want their asset to increase in value and guarantee financial returns.

FSG always claim to be listeners of the supporters and have changed their minds a few times but only after pressure was placed upon them from the supporters. I guess their true colors will come out now.

 

[Cast5]

What’s to stop other clubs not in the super league creating their own super league?

Maybe they should, the top 4 of each super league could qualify for the super-super league and the bottom 3 of each super league could be relegated to the not so super league. It would be great until some of the clubs from each super league break away to play in the wonderful amazing super duper league.

Don’t be hysterical about my suggestion football is always evolving.

 

[Arruda]

Honestly don't know. I don't think Real Madrid have an English forum like us to see their reaction. We will need someone fluent in Spanish to tell us what they are saying on Twitter.

What about Barca fans as well? Didn't they just get a new elected president?

One Real Madrid forum I just saw has a poll with 54% - 46% with "no" in front. Which is a much smaller margin than I expected.

And forums are not representative, regular going fans have has much votes and like any other election a lot will be easily sold by what they see in TV.

I think that wouldn't stop it. Barcelona is struggling for money. And even if it went to votes for the fans I could see both sets voting for "yes" just out of fear that the other club went and theirs would be left out. When push comes to shove, they will vote for their best interest, or what they perceive to be so. Words are usually a lot more magnanimous than actions, specially when fear is a dominating factor.

 

[Pow]

LOOOOOOOOL
Apparently perez said if players are banned from internationals they gonna make their own world Cup!
The state of this shit

 

[Iron]

why do people keep saying uefa and fifa corrupt and greedy on this particular event. Is that hard to get informed better. Uefa does not want the creation of this superleague. The top clubs want it, they are greedy, and we man united are pretty much at the center and at fault. The Glazers are very involved on this matter.

 

[bond19821982]

Look at the money at stake here - 350m . This is happening guys. No one is going to say no to that. PL and UEFA is going to be be compensated nicely.

 

[el3mel]

One Real Madrid forum I just saw has a poll with 54% - 46% with "no" in front. Which is a much smaller margin than I expected.

And forums are not representative, regular going fans have has much votes and like any other election a lot will be easily sold by what they see in TV.

I think that wouldn't stop it. Barcelona is struggling for money. And even if it went to votes for the fans I could see both sets voting for "yes" just out of fear that the other club went and theirs would be left out. When push comes to shove, they will vote for their best interest, or what they perceive to be so. Words are usually a lot more magnanimous than actions, specially when fear is a dominating factor.

Yeah forums and social media fans are mostly a minority, but it's what we have when we want to search for opinions.

I do get the point about being left behind. It seems like Madrid were one of the leading clubs pushing for this to happen considering Perez seems to be the front face of the whole thing followed by Juve's chairman. Barca probably were afraid of being left behind and just jumped into. It will be interesting to know what their fans think about it though. Their team hasn't been anywhere that much competitive in Europe in recent years.

 

[carvajal]

One Real Madrid forum I just saw has a poll with 54% - 46% with "no" in front. Which is a much smaller margin than I expected.

And forums are not representative, regular going fans have has much votes and like any other election a lot will be easily sold by what they see in TV.

I think that wouldn't stop it. Barcelona is struggling for money. And even if it went to votes for the fans I could see both sets voting for "yes" just out of fear that the other club went and theirs would be left out. When push comes to shove, they will vote for their best interest, or what they perceive to be so. Words are usually a lot more magnanimous than actions, specially when fear is a dominating factor.

In the assembly of socios he obtained the positive vote in all the points with an overwhelming advantage.
He did not say the word super league but gave it to understand in a speech in which he spoke of the necessary reform.
I think everything would have to go extremely wrong to be a vote of no confidence (asumming that works like Barcelona with Bartomeu)

 

[Arruda]

Look at the money at stake here - 350m . This is happening guys. No one is going to say no to that. PL and UEFA is going to be be compensated nicely.

Look at the actors on the front row to receive this money:
- Real Madrid and Perez's narcisism
- Their city rival and country rival, the later of which is struggling financial and has dire perspectives for the short-to-medium term team building capacity
- Italian clubs who have been out of the picture for ages
- Six UK clubs, who are owned by private investors who have probably lost hugely during the pandemic

Looking at that, very hard for it not to happen unless FIFA / FAs / UEFA can make the idea have an intolerably high risk for these clubs and their players in the short term. Which is probably nothing short of banning them outright from competitions (as in, starting tomorrow).

We have a novel for months.

 

[Raveneye]

No club gets to decide they're among the best in Europe without actually proving it. Not even Manchester United. This club's owners need to be punished for this, at the very least by having absolutely nobody turn up or watch the Super League. Whatever the corruption and other problems with UEFA, this is not the answer. This is the new big problem, one of anti-competition and oligopoly and greed over culture and the health of the game.

 

[el3mel]

 

[KM]

Gross move, but it's really the greed of FA and UEFA which has allowed this to happen.

The FA and Premier League failed to do their duty when they allowed Roman and Glazers to complete their takeover.

 

[Kita]

You can't forget the format though.

Of course I love seeing the best players in the world face each other, but you'll quickly see that without something material on the line - without the vast majority of games actually mattering - it becomes a very diluted form of the sport.

Players don't give their all, star players are rested far more frequently and the actual games are much, much, much less competitve.

It's a cash grab. The 15 'Founding Fathers' are guaranteed their millions every year regardless of performance, while quite literally half the league (almost certainly made up entirely of 'founders' as they'll have a huge wage/player disparity to the 5 teams that qualify yearly) make the playoffs. It renders the extended group stage a half-hearted borefest.

It will most certainly - based on all evidence of similar formats - be a vastly inferior product.

An 18-25 game group stage that barely matters will be like watching preseason friendlies LARPing as actual competition... like the International Champions Cup we played in for a couple of summers.

NBA format is terrible and the ratings show. The regular season is irrelevant and placement doesn't matter. Teams get rewarded for being bad. Its a joke and these owners in football trying to replicate it somehow should be ashamed.

 

[Cooksen]

It feels very greedy by the clubs and is bad for football on a whole yet FIFA and UEFA are just as shit and greedy.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Oh, really? I'm quite convinced it's that or nothing and very much leaning towards that the clubs are serious and will go through with leaving.

Obviously we can only guess.

Everyone is serious. The PL cannot afford to lose these clubs. Domestic competition and some form of this super league will end up as a compromise. I don’t see this as a breakaway.

 

[devilish]

Look at the money at stake here - 350m . This is happening guys. No one is going to say no to that. PL and UEFA is going to be be compensated nicely.

I doubt it. These super league will replace the CL so these clubs can't be bothered what UEFA think. Regarding the PL good luck for them selling their media rights for a league that doesn't have United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal in it. I am sure that the average South Korean, American or Nigerian will gladly pay a ridiculously expensive subscription and wake up on ridiculous hours to watch an exciting game of rugby between Stoke and Burnley.

 

[christy87]

The reward money for winning it will be around 30 million, the big 5 clubs will make 300 million for just showing up, it’s less for the next 10 around 100 to 150 million and the 5 qualifying clubs could go all the way and win it and still make less than real and United, whereas winning the champs league is 120 million which is 300% more than making the group stages.

this is like turning up for the biggest exam of your life and getting 80% for signing your name, other than pride why would you even try( the glazers and likes don’t care about winning only money) so feck this sham cabal feck thus anticompetitive competition feck modern football.

 

[Arruda]

I personally hate the idea of it, but as the title of the thread asks.. why are Spurs invited?

Have you seen a revenue graph of PL clubs lately? The proportional (I mean as a percentage) gap between top 1 and top 6 is smaller than between top 6 and top 7.