Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

[Red in STL]

The subs made seem to be a major issue amongst posters, so what should they have been?

 

[croadyman]

He is not getting inside the players heads like Guardiola does for city.

That final twenty minutes under ferguson, we would have been pressing for a goal. Instead it looked like we settled for a point. Players had basically given up.

Yeah that should never be acceptable whether you are going for the title or European qualification

 

[Zumbi]

The man just can't get a break, win draw lose he's constantly under review.

It's a tough job to be a united manager if Jose with 2 trophies and a 2nd place finish got sacked, he's got no chance here.

He can get a break. He just needs to put together a strong run of form with consistent results to get that break. If he’s a good enough manager, that shouldn’t be beyond him given the financial backing he’s had. The odd win here or there against the likes of Southampton doesn’t cut it.

 

[The_Midfielder]

He can get a break. He just needs to put together a strong run of form with consistent results to get that break. If he’s a good enough manager, that shouldn’t be beyond him given the financial backing he’s had. The odd win here or there against the likes of Southampton doesn’t cut it.

He is not winning ..
If he was not 11th
7 points from 5 games
Gd 0
We all know he is useless
He is just here for. A few months
Do you see us winning against Spurs and Villa? I dont..
We wil be on 7 points from 7 games after those 2 games

 

[croadyman]

We are not a sacking club. We stand by our manager.

I think INEOS simply ended up giving in to fans pressure in the Summer. After we won the cup, overwhelming majority of our fans wanted ETH to stay. I think that is also why we won’t sack him anytime soon as outside this forum he seems to still be hugely supported by our fans, and I get the same feeling from matchgoing fans as well (he got huge applause during his speech after Newcastle game before we even beat City). I think barring an absolute disaster he will have fans behind him as long as he’s here so at one point INEOS might have to act against it. But it won’t be for a while.

I actually think we will do well this year and finish 5th - 6th, which will earn him a 2-3 year extension. The signs so far this year indicate that we are capable of getting to 5th with a bit of luck.

Jeez if he gets a 2-3 year extension for finishing 5th or 6th then INEOS have lost the plot. I wouldn't give it to him full stop but needs to finish at least 4th or win Europa League. This squad has potential but only a better quality manager will actually unlock it

 

[Redstain]

The man just can't get a break, win draw lose he's constantly under review.

It's a tough job to be a united manager if Jose with 2 trophies and a 2nd place finish got sacked, he's got no chance here.

A manager is only going to be heralded at United when objectively doing well. In his first season some of the pundits mentioned United being back, the win against Arsenal at home and the period when the team went undefeated around the time of playing Barcelona in the Europa League.

In recent standings Erik has finished in the lowest league position since Moyes and has started the following season poorly, do we expect him to be given jubilation or appraise for what's transpired?

What's ruined the current managers reputation / credibility is he's culminating around a very low level of achievement at the detriment of the teams domestic league form.

The managers at United in recent history have been given a fair opportunity at success perhaps with the exception of Moyes. The contributing factor to Ole, Ragnick and Jose dismissals has been underperformance, the same will hold true to Erik pending some sort of miracle.

 

[saik]

Haha, fair.

And to be clear, I think our results will improve. But not enough to make the top four and we may even struggle for 5th/6th. I think the PL will ultimately prove too harsh an environment for Ten Hag’s flaws and limitations.

Fair enough. We will know in the next few weeks if we have really improved. He got us top 3 in his first season here. He now has a better and much deeper squad this year so I believe he can get us top 4. Especially considering I don't think Tottenham, Chelsea, Newcastle or Aston Villa are any better than us. Only City, Arsenal and Liverpool appear ahead of everyone else.

 

[George The Best]

He can get a break. He just needs to put together a strong run of form with consistent results to get that break. If he’s a good enough manager, that shouldn’t be beyond him given the financial backing he’s had. The odd win here or there against the likes of Southampton doesn’t cut it.

I tend to agree. We absolutely battered Palace but we are goal shy at the moment. We have definitely improved our overall play, imo, but lack of goals will hurt us again this season.

 

[saik]

These ifs and buts are pointless. You only deserve a lead if you can actually put the ball in the back of the net, and we didn’t. Chances don’t count for anything in football unless you convert them. I could counter with “if Southampton scored their penalty…” but they didn't, so it’s a pointless hypothetical. Football rewards only those that take their chances.

That’s why I said we’d win that game 9 times out of 10. Anomalies like yesterday happen; it’s nothing new in football. However, if we consistently play as we did yesterday, we’re likely to win more often than not.

 

[Zumbi]

The subs made seem to be a major issue amongst posters, so what should they have been?

I would have hooked Fernandes and dropped Zirkzee back and put Hojlund at 9. Zirkzee had been linking play very nicely and was involved in most of the better things we were doing, whilst Bruno was having a stinker giving the ball away constantly. Putting Rashford on at 9 initially didn’t make any sense - we know the ball won’t stick to him there and there wasn’t space behind for him to exploit at the end of that sort of game.

I still would have brought Rashford on, but I would have brought him on as a straight swap for Garnacho on the left.

The Ugarte swap for Eriksen made sense given Eriksen’s lack of legs, but bringing him and Amad and Zirkzee off hurt our ability to retain control and work openings with our passing. You need some of those more technical players on to get the best out of more explosive players like Rashord and Hojlund, IMO. Ten Hag’s changes left us unbalanced and our play became sloppier as a result.

 

[Sarni]

Jeez if he gets a 2-3 year extension for finishing 5th or 6th then INEOS have lost the plot. I wouldn't give it to him full stop but needs to finish at least 4th or win Europa League. This squad has potential but only a better quality manager will actually unlock it

It’s already a low enough bar I agree, after 3 years and spending over half a billion on players he largely handpicked himself to only expect a 4th place finish is not particularly bold. However I think our fans expect far less and INEOS won’t sack him if he has huge fans support like he’s had so far.

 

[Robindinho]

If we lose to Spurs this weekend, surely the board will have to consider his future.

Away to Villa after that too.

Can't survive the next International break if we lose both surely. Or draw/lose one.

His 3rd season and we'd be on 7/8 points after 7 games and likely 12th-15th.

 

[Zumbi]

That’s why I said we’d win that game 9 times out of 10. Anomalies like yesterday happen; it’s nothing new in football. However, if we consistently play as we did yesterday, we’re likely to win more often than not.

Except you’re ignoring the fact that Palace could have easily scored a couple in the second half. Shots on target were only 6-4 in our favour. That’s really not as dominant as you’re making out.

And it’s not an anomaly. It’s just a game where we were dominant in one half but didn’t take our chances, then letting an improved opposition back in to it in the second half, where they also then squandered a few great chances. That’s a fairly normal occurrence in football. There are games like that every week.

I think we win that game 6-7 times out of 10, but I also think we draw it and even lose it a few times out of 10.

 

[satish_united]

The bar is set so low, that i was expecting a loss and shitty performance - and was pleasantly surprised by the first 60 mins.

if we can play like that in the next games, i am sure we will accumulate few wins under our belt.

 

[Zumbi]

Fair enough. We will know in the next few weeks if we have really improved. He got us top 3 in his first season here. He now has a better and much deeper squad this year so I believe he can get us top 4. Especially considering I don't think Tottenham, Chelsea, Newcastle or Aston Villa are any better than us. Only City, Arsenal and Liverpool appear ahead of everyone else.

Given the fact that those three teams clearly are well ahead of us, that means we have to outperform every single one of Spurs, Villa, Newcastle, Chelsea etc to nab that fourth spot. We would have to see a massive turnaround in consistency and ability to get results for me to like those odds. Our horrific away record under Ten Hag makes it a big uphill battle.

 

[crossy1686]

How does that make sense? Based on stats we should be in top four right now.
We would have to be unlucky every game or players would have to deliberately miss chances all season.

Even the loss against Pool was avoidable if we hadn’t made those big individual errors and put some of our big chances away.

Can we convert those stats into points or are they as useless as they sound? It’s balanced out now anyway, we were in the bottom 3 stats wise last season and we didn’t get relegated so I guess the stats don’t tell the real picture.

 

[Sky1981]

That’s why I said we’d win that game 9 times out of 10. Anomalies like yesterday happen; it’s nothing new in football. However, if we consistently play as we did yesterday, we’re likely to win more often than not.

2.5 years is not anomaly. We're playing crap football for 90% of our game, a few good game is the anomaly

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The subs made seem to be a major issue amongst posters, so what should they have been?

Replacing Zirkzee with Rashford in a straight sub/switch is a bit odd in itself. Rashford is basically playing out of position when he's in the middle, he's proven that time and again.

But more generally, I think what people are reacting to is the lack of a "throw the kitchen sink" mentality. Sub your striker for another striker (who is much better out wide). Sub your winger for a striker and move the striker out wide. Sub your midfielder for a less attacking midfielder. Hardly gives the impression that you're all that bothered to get all three points.

And you should be, I think. Losing two points in an obviously winnable match too frequently - that's what makes you a rather shit midtable team in the long run. Maybe upper midtable depending on the season, but who cares, that should never be what United aim for anyway.

You have to be willing to gamble a bit, though - that's part and parcel of the "kitchen sink" thing. You have to risk losing the one point in an attempt to get all three.

The last half hour or so of that match was severely lacking in anything resembling urgency. And, predictably, it just fizzled out rather impotently too.

To put it another way, the last half hour (and the subs made in it) would've made more sense if we'd been up by a couple of goals at that stage.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Feels like 30-40% of people don't see that this so called "rebuild" goes totally the wrong way. With ten Hag we lost already 2 years and counting, thanks to his crap signings, useless, mediocre players "because they are dutch, or played in Ajax, or in Holland" so our dutch genius knew them well. A bunch of useless, mediocre (or even worse) peg legs arrived with the recommendation of ten Hag. Just a few. Antony, probably the biggest flop of the history of PL. Malacia. Anybody saw him at all? While he was healthy he was still bad. Weghorst, the guy who was probably the worst attacker ever wore a United shirt, luckily he was on loan. Zirkzee. He simply isn't prolific enough, definitely not what we needed. Amrabat. Simply mediocre, at least he was also on loan. And so on. Maybe Martinez was the only one who turned out to be good but he's really injury prone unfortunately. And Onana, but that's debatable as he's making ridicilous mistakes sometimes. So, his bad signings and clueless tactics (resulted in poor results) can be called anything but rebuild, sorry. We have to get rid of him ASAP.

Wow what a way to discredit yourself in a single post

 

[saik]

Except you’re ignoring the fact that Palace could have easily scored a couple in the second half. Shots on target were only 6-4 in our favour. That’s really not as dominant as you’re making out.

And it’s not an anomaly. It’s just a game where we were dominant in one half but didn’t take our chances, then letting an improved opposition back in to it in the second half, where they also then squandered a few great chances. That’s a fairly normal occurrence in football. There are games like that every week.

I think we win that game 6-7 times out of 10, but I also think we draw it and even lose it a few times out of 10.

Agree to disagree. We were really dominant and I still maintain it would be a routine win 9 times out of 10 if we played like we did again.

Given the fact that those three teams clearly are well ahead of us, that means we have to outperform every single one of Spurs, Villa, Newcastle, Chelsea etc to nab that fourth spot. We would have to see a massive turnaround in consistency and ability to get results for me to like those odds. Our horrific away record under Ten Hag makes it a big uphill battle.

As I mentioned before, you don’t believe that’s possible, but I do. Regardless, if he doesn’t start picking up results soon, he’ll be sacked. That much is obvious. This is a results business after all. I at least trust the new senior management team to make an informed decision in that regard.

 

[saik]

2.5 years is not anomaly. We're playing crap football for 90% of our game, a few good game is the anomaly

I said the result against Palace was an anomaly. That performance gets you a win 9 times out of ten. Of course we need to show that we can play that way and maintain the level of dominance consistently throughout the season.

 

[Sarni]

The "rebuild" excuse is a special one. Has been used ever since Fergie left.

Klopp was horrific for the first 5 years too. Abysmal. Don’t forget that.

 

[erikcred]

Klopp was horrific for the first 5 years too. Abysmal. Don’t forget that.

Say what? I'm very confused these days about genuine posts vs sarcastic ones on here.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I actually think we will do well this year and finish 5th - 6th, which will earn him a 2-3 year extension. The signs so far this year indicate that we are capable of getting to 5th with a bit of luck.

I honestly think if he does well and gets us top 10, he'll get a new 5/6 year deal.

 

[Sarni]

Say what? I'm very confused these days about genuine posts vs sarcastic ones on here.

This is obviously sarcastic. Just mirrors the line of defense so frequently being used to prove we can’t judge a manager after mere 2.5 years.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The "rebuild" excuse is a special one. Has been used ever since Fergie left.

Same fans clamouring over Arsenal last night are the ones who want Ten Hag out before giving him a proper chance under the new structure. Go figure.

 

[Sarni]

I honestly think if he does well and gets us top 10, he'll get a new 5/6 year deal.

He obviously won’t. I think 6th or above will be considered success though.

Remember we went over this last year as well when I said we were probably going to keep him against all logic, and it is what ended up happening. It felt ridiculous at the time - even to me saying that - but it came true.

 

[Sarni]

Same fans clamouring over Arsenal last night are the ones who want Ten Hag out before giving him a proper chance under the new structure. Go figure.

The Arteta Defense is no longer valid, he won 9 out of first 10 games in his third season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He obviously won’t. I think 6th or above will be considered success though.

Remember we went over this last year as well when I said we were probably going to keep him against all logic, and it is what ended up happening. It felt ridiculous at the time - even to me saying that - but it came true.

It literally only happened because it didn't work our with the other candidates who were interviewed. The FA Cup win also helped, I imagine. What club interviews candidates while the manager is still under contract if they have full faith in him?

Haven’t Ashworth/Wlicox distanced themselves from him staying on, saying they weren't in situ and had no say in the matter? You know well he's a goner if we get 6th. My prediction is that he's a goner by Christmas unless things drastically improve.

 

[NewGlory]

I also think that he won't be sacked as a knee-jerk response. Having said that, I think the board have a timeframe in mind. Results need to start coming in thick and fast. It won't be after the Villa or Spurs game, but as I mentioned in this thread a few weeks ago - I think he has till mid-December. That is a long enough time period to fully judge him. The City game is around GW16 in December. If we are languishing in 10th and lose a couple of games in Europa - he will be gone. They would want to salvage the season from then on.

Yes. If we are clearly off he can be gone in December, but there's a lot of gray area between that and actually making top 4 this year. Our competition is very, very, very strong. This season may be one of the toughest EPLs in recent history, if it continues this way. So we can be around 6th place by December, or even 5th, which would save him from sacking, but won't necessarily mean we have realistic chances for making top 4

 

[dutchred]

Does ETH have he guts to drop Bruno. We'd be better off playing Eriksen at 10 with Ugarte and Mainoo behind him

 

[NLunited]

Can we convert those stats into points or are they as useless as they sound? It’s balanced out now anyway, we were in the bottom 3 stats wise last season and we didn’t get relegated so I guess the stats don’t tell the real picture.

That last statement is true in the right context. Offside goals, missed final passes and the likes aren’t counted in the stats, to name an example.

In the end, performance includes putting the chances away and we have underperformed in that respect. It’s hardly a stick to beat the manager with though.

 

[Remember the geese]

Does ETH have he guts to drop Bruno. We'd be better off playing Eriksen at 10 with Ugarte and Mainoo behind him

We'd be better off if we moved on from Bruno and Rashford.

 

[pocco]

Jeez if he gets a 2-3 year extension for finishing 5th or 6th then INEOS have lost the plot. I wouldn't give it to him full stop but needs to finish at least 4th or win Europa League. This squad has potential but only a better quality manager will actually unlock it

I have no doubt about that but I agree with @Sarni here. He's loved by the fans no matter what, and that's all that matters. INEOS will want to keep the fans on side and keeping him is an easy win. I said recently I think they'll just get into the "next year is our year" mindset and put up with anything 8th or above, with the belief that one day we'll win something noteworthy. Hopefully he can keep investing big money and make us the best FA Cup/League Cup/EL team around and keep these good times rolling.

 

[stevoc]

Replacing Zirkzee with Rashford in a straight sub/switch is a bit odd in itself. Rashford is basically playing out of position when he's in the middle, he's proven that time and again.

But more generally, I think what people are reacting to is the lack of a "throw the kitchen sink" mentality. Sub your striker for another striker (who is much better out wide). Sub your winger for a striker and move the striker out wide. Sub your midfielder for a less attacking midfielder. Hardly gives the impression that you're all that bothered to get all three points.

And you should be, I think. Losing two points in an obviously winnable match too frequently - that's what makes you a rather shit midtable team in the long run. Maybe upper midtable depending on the season, but who cares, that should never be what United aim for anyway.

You have to be willing to gamble a bit, though - that's part and parcel of the "kitchen sink" thing. You have to risk losing the one point in an attempt to get all three.

The last half hour or so of that match was severely lacking in anything resembling urgency. And, predictably, it just fizzled out rather impotently too.

To put it another way, the last half hour (and the subs made in it) would've made more sense if we'd been up by a couple of goals at that stage.

It might have been worth the risk for Manchester United but I get the feeling Erik felt it wasn't worth the risk for him. Too many losses between now and Xmas will probably see him sacked, so better to tread water and play it safe for draws if needs be.

 

[Mavs]

But more generally, I think what people are reacting to is the lack of a "throw the kitchen sink" mentality. Sub your striker for another striker (who is much better out wide). Sub your winger for a striker and move the striker out wide. Sub your midfielder for a less attacking midfielder. Hardly gives the impression that you're all that bothered to get all three points.

For ETH that used to be putting McTominay on in a forward position to grab a late goal in these types of games. And it was quite effective to be honest, but probably not a reliable long term strategy.

Otherwise his subs tend to just disrupt our play more often than not, as was the case in this match.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

I would have hooked Fernandes and dropped Zirkzee back and put Hojlund at 9. Zirkzee had been linking play very nicely and was involved in most of the better things we were doing, whilst Bruno was having a stinker giving the ball away constantly. Putting Rashford on at 9 initially didn’t make any sense - we know the ball won’t stick to him there and there wasn’t space behind for him to exploit at the end of that sort of game.

I still would have brought Rashford on, but I would have brought him on as a straight swap for Garnacho on the left.

The Ugarte swap for Eriksen made sense given Eriksen’s lack of legs, but bringing him and Amad and Zirkzee off hurt our ability to retain control and work openings with our passing. You need some of those more technical players on to get the best out of more explosive players like Rashord and Hojlund, IMO. Ten Hag’s changes left us unbalanced and our play became sloppier as a result.

yeah the bruno sub was obvious and staring him right in the face, but he just lacked the balls to do it. Simply bringing holjund on for bruno and dropping zirk into the bruno slot wouldve been the move to do. Then couldve brought on rashford if we needed to make another change after that. Easy call that wasnt made.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

The Arteta Defense is no longer valid, he won 9 out of first 10 games in his third season.

shit people barely stopped using the SAF it seems. The arteta defense still has years left in it ha.

 

[VP89]

The Arteta Defense is no longer valid, he won 9 out of first 10 games in his third season.

3.5 actually.

 

[pocco]

3.5 actually.

Do you think we'd be challenging for the title now if Ten Hag to over instead of Rangnick?