Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

Erik ten Hag

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The subs made seem to be a major issue amongst posters, so what should they have been?
I don’t think they are as pivotal as they are made out. Ten Hag himself accepts the subs didn’t work. He rolled the dice and it didn’t come off, no biggy.

I actually really like the way ten Hag has started rotating the squad, seemingly using different players for specific strengths and building up minutes across the whole squad. I feel the same 11 for more or less every game in the last 2 years has been a problem and resulted in some of the burnout we have seen in the team.
 
3.5 actually.
Yeah I pretty much write off his first season as I think taking over mid-season gives you only a very minimal advantage (or none at all). He was appointed in late December, they won 5 of their 17 games prior to that and were sitting on 22 points, their squad needed an overhaul and he had to wait until Summer (also this being COVID season meant it was only in late July that he could finish 19-20 and start planning for 20-21).

He did actually show some improvement in year 1 as they went on to pick up 34 points from their remaining 21 and won the FA Cup. Slightly improved his PPG in 20-21 again to finish on 61 ponts, and vastly improved their defense which is actually still fundamental in them challenging for PL now (only 39 goals conceded). Then improved more in 21-22 to get to 69 points, and obviously further improved in 22-23 and 23-24 that followed.

His tenure at Arsenal is pretty much linear improvement.

I'm obviously hoping we are going to see 'the Arteta effect' (i.e. any manager is going to become great if you just hold on to them) with ETH and we finish on 80+ points this year and then 85+ next year but I'm not seeing that. Think our best case scenario for this year is repeat of 22-23, i.e. 70+ points, third place and maybe a decent run in one of the cups.
 
I don’t think they are as pivotal as they are made out. Ten Hag himself accepts the subs didn’t work. He rolled the dice and it didn’t come off, no biggy.

I actually really like the way ten Hag has started rotating the squad, seemingly using different players for specific strengths and building up minutes across the whole squad. I feel the same 11 for more or less every game in the last 2 years has been a problem and resulted in some of the burnout we have seen in the team.
I sort of agree, though he probaby should have kept Zirkzee on and taken Bruno off, putting Hojlund and Ugarte on makes perfect sense but he should have put the former on at the same time as Rashford
 
shit people barely stopped using the SAF it seems. The arteta defense still has years left in it ha.
SAF defense is next in line. It's obviously a little invalidated by the fact it happened almost 40 years ago and circumstances were completely different, but we have already exhausted the Klopp defense (we are clearly not making CL final this year) and we are close to calling off the Arteta defense (unless we go on a run now and do indeed compete for the title).
 
The man just can't get a break, win draw lose he's constantly under review.

It's a tough job to be a united manager if Jose with 2 trophies and a 2nd place finish got sacked, he's got no chance here.

I don't understand this view. Any good job should have the manager constantly under review. Ten Hag hasn't achieved what the likes of Ancelotti have to deserve any other feeling. In fact, based on past performances, he more than any manager in the premier league should be under review. The idea that this is a bad thing is what is causing us to have issues imo. How can a manager perform as badly as he did last season and people even suggest that he start with a clean slate. For me, I truly question the ambition of United fans. What do we actually want? Do we actually want to be back to where we belong, or are we so scared to look bad that we're okay taking things slowly. We're not a small club. We have lots of money that we constantly spend. Rebuilds for clubs like ours do not exist, because they should not need to happen in the first place. The amount of money we've spent and been willing to spend, should always amount to an immediate change in status.

What seems to happen at United is that fans seem almost too scared to hold managers accountable. The ride of a rebuild for a club like ours should not even exist. We should not be terming this a rebuild. Even between 03-04 and 05-06, we actually attempted to challenge for major trophies. These were called rebuilding seasons after they had happened, but the aim and the feeling of the fans in those years was one in which we felt capable of winning the league. City may have better players than us, but we do have really good players. Every year that we throw away as a rebuilding year is a lost opportunity to challenge and a wasted year in these players' careers.

The challenge, even this season, is that we're not actually waiting for our players to improve and take their games to the next level. We are waiting for our manager to build a system capable of using the players available well and consistently enough to challenge for the league. This despite having managed us for 2 previous seasons. The onus is on him to prove that he is capable of providing a good system, that allows our players to shine. Ten Hag is that part of the team we have the most doubt over, and after three seasons, we really should not have to have doubts.

This is why, unlike a new manager, Ten Hag has to prove that he can get good results whilst giving consistently good performances for the fanbase to truly believe that he's the guy to lead us forward. He should not simply be given time to prove this either, he has to earn it. If we give Ten Hag time where he's inconsistent, as a club we would have thrown away 2 seasons in which all evidence proved that the manager wasn't up to par. These are opportunity costs of a potential challenge, wasted time that another manager could have used to improve the club, lost fans who won't understand why the club would appear to not care about how we perform, lost new potential fans who won't be attracted by the results or performances we've been producing, lost champions league revenue, another year of decreased status that could affect revenues moving forward and other potential financial costs. This would be worth it with a manager who people believed in. However, Ten Hag has rightfully lost that.
 
feels like 60-70% of people here have trouble grasping the concept of a rebuild. Wouldn't we all want to be instantly perfect..

Season 3 into the rebuild and we're still going backwards. Simply unacceptable however people try and dress it up.

The time for discussing this is over, wins and good performances are needed now, or he's failed and must go. Another 6 or so games, then it's decision time.
 
Season 3 into the rebuild and we're still going backwards. Simply unacceptable however people try and dress it up.

The time for discussing this is over, wins and good performances are needed now, or he's failed and must go. Another 6 or so games, then it's decision time.
Kind of a side point but this must be the first time we’re actually rebuilding anything.

It was always a buzzword when new managers came in but all that happened was we signed random players and made out like they’d take us back to the top.

Now there’s a new owner and clearly huge changes on the football side. I guess it only took a decade to start rebuilding.
 
Do you think we'd be challenging for the title now if Ten Hag to over instead of Rangnick?
Lord knows. I find it equally as far fetched as people thinking Arsenal can go from finishing 5th to almost winning the title from a frankly ridiculous run.
 
Yeah I pretty much write off his first season as I think taking over mid-season gives you only a very minimal advantage (or none at all). He was appointed in late December, they won 5 of their 17 games prior to that and were sitting on 22 points, their squad needed an overhaul and he had to wait until Summer (also this being COVID season meant it was only in late July that he could finish 19-20 and start planning for 20-21).

He did actually show some improvement in year 1 as they went on to pick up 34 points from their remaining 21 and won the FA Cup. Slightly improved his PPG in 20-21 again to finish on 61 ponts, and vastly improved their defense which is actually still fundamental in them challenging for PL now (only 39 goals conceded). Then improved more in 21-22 to get to 69 points, and obviously further improved in 22-23 and 23-24 that followed.

His tenure at Arsenal is pretty much linear improvement.

I'm obviously hoping we are going to see 'the Arteta effect' (i.e. any manager is going to become great if you just hold on to them) with ETH and we finish on 80+ points this year and then 85+ next year but I'm not seeing that. Think our best case scenario for this year is repeat of 22-23, i.e. 70+ points, third place and maybe a decent run in one of the cups.
Yes one flaw with comparing Ten Hag to Arteta is the fact that the latter had a linear progression. That being said he finished 8th in that midyear then 8th in a first full season and then 5th.

I dont think there's a manager around who is given that level of patience if they were in the United hotseat. Whoever it is, ETH, LVG, Ancelotti or De Zerbi etc. Would need to have a period of giving up previous principles in the hunt of relevancy out of sheer pressure. Plus, we over performed in season 1, which set an even higher bar for season 2.

There is absolutely no denying ten hag fecked nearly everything last season. I think this season is a matter of seeing whether it was a one off given all the background noise, or he's just not the guy to do it. From a performance standpoint I do see a big improvement. But that's not hard to do compared to last season and without results in the medium term it won't be enough either.
 
I have no doubt about that but I agree with @Sarni here. He's loved by the fans no matter what, and that's all that matters. INEOS will want to keep the fans on side and keeping him is an easy win. I said recently I think they'll just get into the "next year is our year" mindset and put up with anything 8th or above, with the belief that one day we'll win something noteworthy. Hopefully he can keep investing big money and make us the best FA Cup/League Cup/EL team around and keep these good times rolling.

For sure. Rumours have it he'll get a new deal if he doesn't lose to Spurs on Sunday.
 
Technically this is Ten Hag's second season.

"Technically"??? This is in fact, indisputably, ETH's third season as manager of Manchester United.

If you're hanging your hat on the argument that ETH wasn't really the manager in his first season as manager then it's an even worse indictment of his management. The squad he inherited, so goes your argument, is the squad that finished third in the PL. The squad he built -- thus, his "first" season -- was a disaster.

The squad he has now, which he has continued to build, is performing even worse in its third season, dropping points to midtable clubs and only comprehensively beating a club that is sure to be relegated and another which is a midtable League One side.

You would be well advised to search for another argument to defend ETH's abysmal performance as manager, which may well have ended with the humiliation at Selhurst Park but there in nothing in performances so far this season to indicate that we will comfortably dispatch any of our upcoming PL opponents.
 
Under the new structure. In 2022 they gave him a bunch of overpriced, unsuitable signings. Unlike Arteta who was properly backed from the start.
Well he's done terrible under the new structure, maybe they're the problem after all?

But seriously, it's literally his third season, the Earth has been in orbit around the Sun a whole two times and a bit since he became the manager. I don't even have a problem with him as a person but posts that quite literally want to deny years of scientific study just to keep a bald bloke who's bad at his job in a job make me want him fired yesterday.
 
Under the new structure. In 2022 they gave him a bunch of overpriced, unsuitable signings. Unlike Arteta who was properly backed from the start.
You’ll just make all sort of excuses, right ?
Most ridiculous thing I have heard in this forum.
In 2022, they gave him what he begged for, Antony for 90 fecking millions. He pushed for the overpriced sh*t players he had.