The squad is underperforming. Our players have shown in the past, that they are better than what they showed last year, whether at United or at previous clubs. Do you think they just all forgot how to play football overnight, or is it down to the tactical system being subpar, when most players of a team look like shadows of their past selves?
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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The squad is underperforming. Our players have shown in the past, that they are better than what they showed last year, whether at United or at previous clubs. Do you think they just all forgot how to play football overnight, or is it down to the tactical system being subpar, when most players of a team look like shadows of their past selves?
Not to pick on you specifically, but a common argument to bin Ten Hag is the freedom he has (supposedly) had to overhaul the squad to his liking.
A significant number of the players we used in 22/23 have since left the club, and at least a couple of those that remain are not the players they were two seasons ago, simply because of their age.
You say we're underperforming because we've seen these players perform better, but is it not possible that our squad is simply not as strong as it once was?
We've a lot of youth in the side that bodes well for the future, but not necessarily for the here and now.
I rate Anorim but I don't think a back three is in the club's dna to be honest.
Even if Ugarte is a success in whatever system he's trying to implement, being reliant on one player is disastrous. United should have a manager that's able to adapt to whatever situation he's faced with, in order to win games. Especially if you're going for league and European titles. Last season it was Martinez he needed for his system to work, and now he's back.
Exactly. Even if Ugarte turns out to be this magical player that turns our fortunes around and we go on this amazing run to finish 5th or 6th, are we seriously OK to have our team be so reliant on a couple of players? It’s already been established we can’t play well without Martinez, now Ugarte would be the second one and probably there would be a few more.
Meanwhile in Fergie’s days he could make us tick with virtually any squad, we would obviously see decline with many injuries but we would have not ever gone from good to one of the worst teams in the league because of a few injuries. That’s what good managers do.
To be fair XYZ are a cracking side.
I don't think so. Not at all IMO.
You don't think age has caught up, at least a little bit, with Eriksen and Casemiro?
Okay then.
They're obviously not the players I was talking about.
Crucially, they were the players that specific statement of mine referred to.
We've seen Rashford, Martinez and (arguably) Fernandes play better, but who else are you referring to?
How much of their previous form (particular in the case of the former two) could have just been a purple patch?
How much of an influence on their performances do you think tactics has actually had?
Sure, let’s sack him before arguably the most important / potentially most impactful signing this summer has kicked a ball…
I’m not saying let’s back him blindly, I’m saying I think he should get 4-6 weeks with Ugarte in the side to prove he can make a significant improvement on what we’ve seen. I’m not giving him excuses for injuries again, but what was the point in extending his contract to sack him after 3 games into the season.
If however we don’t see meaningful change with 4 out of this summer’s 5 first team signings all available for the first 10 games in the season, then yes he deserves the sack.
I cant believe the negative reaction on ten hag just after 3 games. It appears it is a referendum on him. But come on guys we all know Manutd has a lot to go before catching up with the likes of Liverpool, It was not long ago we lost 4 5 and 7 nil to Liverpool. we have done the first player change on the team signing 5 players and selling 3 or 4 players but it is clear this is not enough. We have strengthened the defense mainly but the midfield and attack has not changed much. Zirkzze is another young player like rasmus and we have not brought any wing player. As for the midfield it needed 2 or 3 midfielders but can only bring one. Maybe it is the ffp rule . If u see against Liverpool it was the same midfield as last year.
In my view Ten hag has to quickly change his tactics and play 4 midfielders Maybe a 4 4 2 or a 3 5 2 formation. He should use the FA cup final as blue print where we played 4 midfielders in amrabat mctominay mainoo bruno and two forwards in garnacho and rashford mainly because our midfield is not strong enough to play only 3 midfielders. We can even try 5 midfielders in certain games . it might be more defensive and we are like acting a mid or lower mid table team but it is a reality. In my view we still short of 3 or more players to compete for Top 4 let alone the Title. I see it as a possible 3 year project with one window done. could it have been better if we chose the chaotic Chelsea way bring 20 players sell 20 players maybe but I am sure lot of fans would be happy if we could have sold more players and bring some more . like a left back. another midfielder and wing player who can score goals and create chances.
Think of Players like casmiro.erikson.mount.onana.lindelof.anthony.rashford..etc we have to possibly clear . See what the attack looks like with the young players . To me it is a midtable team attack. So the bottom line is we unforunatley need time. Can be we do better with another coach yes but he has to be a smart one tacticaly and bring some good players and clear the rest of the bunch.
In my view Ten hag has to quickly change his tactics and play 4 midfielders Maybe a 4 4 2 or a 3 5 2 formation. He should use the FA cup final as blue print where we played 4 midfielders in amrabat mctominay mainoo bruno and two forwards in garnacho and rashford mainly because our midfield is not strong enough to play only 3 midfielders. We can even try 5 midfielders in certain games . it might be more defensive and we are like acting a mid or lower mid table team but it is a reality. In my view we still short of 3 or more players to compete for Top 4 let alone the Title. I see it as a possible 3 year project with one window done. could it have been better if we chose the chaotic Chelsea way bring 20 players sell 20 players maybe but I am sure lot of fans would be happy if we could have sold more players and bring some more . like a left back. another midfielder and wing player who can score goals and create chances.
Think of Players like casmiro.erikson.mount.onana.lindelof.anthony.rashford..etc we have to possibly clear . See what the attack looks like with the young players . To me it is a midtable team attack. So the bottom line is we unforunatley need time. Can be we do better with another coach yes but he has to be a smart one tacticaly and bring some good players and clear the rest of the bunch.
Missing a few there mate.
Like saying it didn't make sense for Kampusch to escape on a wednesday. Like, the week had barely started?! Give the bloke a chance to prove himself.
Really?
He was always going to be starting this season on incredibly thin ice.
While I feel like defeats away at Brighton and at home to Liverpool were always on the cards in isolation, I think expectations were very much that these results would have felt a bit less inevitable.
Going by the "on paper" method of evaluating fixtures, we really should be looking at winning the majority between now and December, and should be incredibly disappointed if we pick up more than two or three defeats across all competitions.
The toughest in the league are Spurs and Chelsea at home and Villa away, and in the Europa it's Porto and Fenerbahce away.
Before any of them, we've got Southampton, Barnsley, Palace and Twente, which really should be four relatively straightforward wins from four, and a nice momentum builder before the run of Spurs, Porto and Villa into the next international break.
Realistically, we're looking at both the Southampton and Palace games being an ordeal, even if we do pick up the points (which is by no means a guarantee).
You just mentioned things that all have a lot to do with the coaching
When you think of the way we turn safe situations into defeats especially last season and at Brighton two weeks ago you can easily find the 10 points we lost needlessly. This, for me, is why he has to go because in the two three games leading to, and the, Cup final he showed that he can be streetwise if wants to be but the careless way in which we got dumped out of Europe and lost points against poor teams is unprofessional to say the least.
No, you don't get it. The other 100 odd games didn't happen, obviously.
Think Villa have a better GK and balanced midfield than us, INEOS would have moved for Watkins when he was at Brentford
I fall very much in the camp of "there's little point in firing him after three games", but that's only because a) we were still signing/bedding in new players and b) two of those three games happened to be among the tougher fixtures we'll have all season.
There's pretty much no excuse after this international break, and the Southampton game is effectively "must-win".
Yes, he hates all of life and that's why he showed so much empathy towards his players after the bombing incident and tried to protect his players. Real serial killer vibes right there!
It's just an example. Perhaps there's truth in the story that he pulled the plug as he wanted a sabbatical.
Don't forget how signing a ball playing GK will unlock his whole gameplan
The other day I saw somebody say we just need a pacey CB next to De Ligt. People just don't learn.
Papa Floro would have sacked Ten Hag 3 years ago
He wasn’t even at the club three years ago!
That's how bad it is!
But really it feels like you've had way too many alcorconazos already.
I don't like the term purple patch. It's not that difficult to profile a player and to judge talent. You don't need to be a professional scout to realize that both Rashford and Martínez belong in top teams, based on the hundreds of matches they've played in their careers so far prior to the start of last season. Sometimes players can overperform massively even for a whole season, according to underlying statistics, but that's the closest thing to a "purple patch" IMO.
Down to 82% now. It’s actually impressive how knee jerk so many of our fans still are about this manager.
Indeed and they only beat us 3-0 last week, so we're definitely progressing. Give it another year or two and we might only be getting beat 1-0 or even snatching the odd draw.
I cant believe the negative reaction on ten hag after just 116 games.
Rashford has had two good and two acceptable goalscoring seasons since his first proper season in the team.
Martinez has basically had three quarters of a good season in a top league.
That might be their limit.
I note you ignored the other questions.
Onana, Mazraoui, Dalot, de Ligt, Yoro, Martínez, Maguire, Shaw, Malacia
Fernandes, Mainoo, Ugarte, Mount
Hojlund, Zirkzee, Rashford, Garnacho, Amad
You don't think this core should be finishing comfortably in the top 4?
We have. I wish we had your standards. feck all the romanticism.That's how bad it is!
But really it feels like you've had way too many alcorconazos already.
The 17 percent who have voted keep are not United supporters. Those who are adding to the tally are A list trolls and WUMs.
A must win and a must win well/ convincingly too.
We have to look and perform as a team. We've had enough scrappy wins under ETH as it is.
If he doesn't get us performing well, even in victory, then I'd want him out. Sounds harsh I know.
No.
We have a noticeably worse squad than City, Arsenal and Liverpool.
We had no hope of overtaking the first two, and the only hope we had of overtaking Liverpool was Slot being their Moyes, which very much looks not to be the case.
Of the chasing pack for fourth (Villa, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle and us), there is absolutely nothing to seperate us to make us "comfortably" the 4th best team in the league.
Onana is easily the worst first choice keeper in last season's top eight. Our defense is okay, probably our best position, but still nothing spectacular. Our midfield, even with Ugarte, is still a bit of a mess, with Eriksen and Casemiro looking finished, Mainoo still finding the stamina required to play 90 minutes every week, and Mount being almost a non-entity with injury. There's a lot of potential in our attack, but it lacks a proven goalscorer and we're relying on someone either kicking on massively, or Rashford finding form from two seasons ago (which seems highly unlikely).
Happy to hear why you might think differently, but I really think people are struggling to come to terms with quite how 'average' our squad is, despite the money we've spent on it.
It's good enough for a challenge for top four, but by no means good enough to "comfortably" finish there without four other teams having off-seasons.
Please just leave and let me get excited about watching us again.
Same here. I just wish for a United that dominates English football and wins the biggest trophies. Winning the FA Cup and the League Cup, as well as the Europa League, was awesome, as trophies have been few and far between. The fact that we went nearly 6 years without a trophy is beyond unacceptable. Nevertheless, we need to compete for the Premier League and the Champions League. We haven’t won the former in 11 years, and the latter we haven’t won since I became a fan of football in general and of United - we of course last won it in 2008, when I was nine years old.
I’d be okay with us not competing for the title if there were any signs of evolution, but there aren’t any, we’re a worse team than we were in his first year. And top it of the football we play is so boring, then you add in a mauling by the rivals every few weeks - it’s just not fun at all.
For me there are 4 better squads in the league and at least 5 better first XIs.
The forward options are far too weak.
This sentence doesn't feel quite right without a 6 in there. Maybe it'll be added in the return fixture.