Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

[pocco]

None of that is true though. I recommend to watch the documentary about the bombing and listen carefully to Watzke.

Zodiac Tuchel didn't say anything. He did whine about wanting to postpone the game only after they lost. He could have said something right away, you know as well as I do that he would have gotten all the attention he wanted.

Yes, he looked off, but that is mainly due to one of the explosives going off very close to him. He composed himself very quickly, quite impressive.

That was the beginning of the end for him at Dortmund, he fell out with Mislintat - or whatever his name is - before that (of course he did...) and then got into it with Watzke after the bombing. There was no coming back from this.

The empathy part made me laugh though. Science fiction.

So the crux of your argument is that a) he didn't say anything publicly after the attack, and b) 'he composed himeslf very quickly'. You have no substance to what you are saying, and most credible reports at the time were that he didn't want to go ahead with the game. You think he had no empathy? Is it not empathetic to say that the conditions weren't right for them to have played the game?

Science fiction is quite literally calling him a fecking serial killer, you absolute loon. I'm not interested in helping you peddle your batshit crazy theories so take this discussion up with somebody else.

 

[Sarni]

The perception of team quality will always be correlated with their recent performance. Villa have not actually changed their team all that much since Gerrard days and are now perceived as one of the best 6-7 squads in the league, whereas back then they were relegation fodder - McGinn, Konsa, Bailey, Watkins, Martinez etc. had all been there before yet perceived very differently to now.

We have a coach that makes almost every player worse, so it's only natural for us to think it's a very underwhelming group. Until we see them play under someone that adjusts tactics to players he has at his disposal we won't really be able to tell how good we really are.

 

[stefan92]

So the crux of your argument is that a) he didn't say anything publicly after the attack, and b) 'he composed himeslf very quickly'. You have no substance to what you are saying, and most credible reports at the time were that he didn't want to go ahead with the game. You think he had no empathy? Is it not empathetic to say that the conditions weren't right for them to have played the game?

Not necessarily. He could also have said something along the lines like "We don't have a chance if that bunch of crybabies has to play today".

 

[Leftback99]

You're just shitting on our players thinking other teams have it better.

Onana is a better ball-player and passer than any rival keeper bar Ederson, and even though he wouldn't get in over Vicario or Alisson at Spurs or Liverpool, he sure as hell would start for Chelsea, and probably Arsenal too. Obviously starts for Newcastle and West Ham too. Villa is debatable.

"Our defense is okay": Dalot and Mazraoui are both among the best full-backs in the league, just that both of them objectively cannot be considered the best. Both of them have a good case for being a top 5 right-back though. De Ligt and Maguire are both up there with the best organizer-type CCBs around, like Dias or Guehi. Yoro has best in the world potential. Martínez is probably the best passer (Stones and White being his only competition in this regard IMO), and most press-resistant CB/LB in the world. Shaw is the best traditional left-back in the world when he's fit. Malacia is a very solid inverted full-back rotational player. Which rival teams do you think have a better defense on paper other than Arsenal, City and Liverpool?

Fernandes is the second best #10 in the world after De Bruyne. But casuals will say "Odegaard is miles better" etc. I don't have the energy to argue against these types of posts anymore, with people who don't know what makes a #10 actually great, or just cannot judge talent and players at all.

Mainoo has a case for starting for every single team in the league, even City and Arsenal.

Rashford will be back to his best as well, which is 2nd best LW in the league after Son, as soon as he's not being played far away from the opposition goal as a touchline winger.

Hojlund is one of the few 30-goal per season potential U23 players in the whole world, whilst people are still debating whether he's better than Jackson or not.

The likes of Garnacho, Zirkzee, Amad and Mount would be key players at Villa or Newcastle.

This is why I'm ignoring large parts of posts I'm replying to. Whenever I write long posts and present many valid arguments, I get the same one-liner answer I basically replied to in the first place. What's the point then? These posters likely barely even watched the players they're so confidently talking about anyways. A new manager will likely come in at one point in the next 12 months and we'll see then who was right.

Now this is funny.

 

[VP89]

We have a coach that makes almost every player worse

Outside of Casemiro I'm curious which players he makes worse?

 

[Ludens the Red]

You're just shitting on our players thinking other teams have it better.

Onana is a better ball-player and passer than any rival keeper bar Ederson, and even though he wouldn't get in over Vicario or Alisson at Spurs or Liverpool, he sure as hell would start for Chelsea, and probably Arsenal too. Obviously starts for Newcastle and West Ham too. Villa is debatable.

"Our defense is okay": Dalot and Mazraoui are both among the best full-backs in the league, just that both of them objectively cannot be considered the best. Both of them have a good case for being a top 5 right-back though. De Ligt and Maguire are both up there with the best organizer-type CCBs around, like Dias or Guehi. Yoro has best in the world potential. Martínez is probably the best passer (Stones and White being his only competition in this regard IMO), and most press-resistant CB/LB in the world. Shaw is the best traditional left-back in the world when he's fit. Malacia is a very solid inverted full-back rotational player. Which rival teams do you think have a better defense on paper other than Arsenal, City and Liverpool?

Fernandes is the second best #10 in the world after De Bruyne. But casuals will say "Odegaard is miles better" etc. I don't have the energy to argue against these types of posts anymore, with people who don't know what makes a #10 actually great, or just cannot judge talent and players at all.

Mainoo has a case for starting for every single team in the league, even City and Arsenal.

Rashford will be back to his best as well, which is 2nd best LW in the league after Son, as soon as he's not being played far away from the opposition goal as a touchline winger.

Hojlund is one of the few 30-goal per season potential U23 players in the whole world, whilst people are still debating whether he's better than Jackson or not.

The likes of Garnacho, Zirkzee, Amad and Mount would be key players at Villa or Newcastle.

This is why I'm ignoring large parts of posts I'm replying to. Whenever I write long posts and present many valid arguments, I get the same one-liner answer I basically replied to in the first place. What's the point then? These posters likely barely even watched the players they're so confidently talking about anyways. A new manager will likely come in at one point in the next 12 months and we'll see then who was right.

Theres a lot of delusion to cut through here..

But the bolded struck me as the most deluded point. I’m not sure on what planet Amad, Zirkzee or Mount would become key players at Newcastle and Villa. Even Garnacho for all his potential is not yet at the level of the options those teams have.

Newcastle scored 85 goals last season. Almost thirty more than Manchester United. In Isak they arguably have the second best centre forward in the league. In Anthony Gordon they have one of the most effective wingers. They also have Harvey Barnes.

Villa have Watkins and Bailey who got 58 goal contributions between them last season. It would be a big surprise if United even scored 58 goals this season as a team.

Mason Mount was a good reliable player three years ago and yeah he’d have walked into most teams. Current Mount however is a nothing player injured 90% of the time.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Taken a giant swig of kool aid there.

Rashford second best LW in the league. Martinez most press resistant CB in the world. Onana a better keeper than Areola or Raya or Pope. Hojlund has 30 goal per season potential. And maybe the best one - Bruno "Flat Track" Fernandes the second best #10 in the world.

I was reading the post and my bemusement kept growing but then i saw the poster

 

[stevoc]

We've a lot of unrealised potential and a few players that have shown better going back two or three seasons. The hope is that the former group start kicking on sooner rather than later, and the latter (where not age related) re-find that form. If that happens, I think we are easily a top four side, but it hasn't yet.

In terms of individuals, I think Casemiro is done. I don't think that's a managerial issue. Whether it's physical, mental, or a combination of the two, he's not got it anymore at this level. I also think Rashford is what he is. He's basically become Lingard, but a rung or two above. He's 27 next month and should be in the peak of his career, but we're still waiting for him to reach that next level and find the consistency that would truly mark him as a top player. His best goal return is 17, which he's managed twice. There was a two season gap between those returns, and his next best returns are 11 and 10 goals. I also think Onana and Antony are lost causes. We can mask the failings of the former with better overall performances, and can probably get away with kicking the can down the road there, but I don't think we're ever getting rid of the inexplicable errors. Antony just isn't cut out for this level.

Antony is definitely a lost cause we should have taken whatever fee we could get for him in the summer. Same with Sancho if Ten Hag had no intention of playing him and invested it into a right winger. Onana I see what everyone else is seeing but for some reason I still think he could come good, or at least be better than he has been. Rashford has a big problem I don't know if he'll ever get over it, he needs help and maybe a change of scenery would be the best thing for him. The likes of Casemiro could still be useful in a different system in my opinion, though granted he's not the player he was 2 years ago.

But despite those issues this squad still has a lot of potential. I personally don't think Ten Hag is getting anywhere near the best out of it.

 

[golden_blunder]

Outside of Casemiro I'm curious which players he makes worse?

Do you ever tire of playing devils advocate?

 

[flameinthesun]

The perception of team quality will always be correlated with their recent performance. Villa have not actually changed their team all that much since Gerrard days and are now perceived as one of the best 6-7 squads in the league, whereas back then they were relegation fodder - McGinn, Konsa, Bailey, Watkins, Martinez etc. had all been there before yet perceived very differently to now.

We have a coach that makes almost every player worse, so it's only natural for us to think it's a very underwhelming group. Until we see them play under someone that adjusts tactics to players he has at his disposal we won't really be able to tell how good we really are.

I'm not ready to say he makes every player worse, after all Rashford had his best season under us (and had started his decline into averageness before Ten Hag). The players who were here before him have underperformed under other managers so there is nothing new there. The players he has signed all have had ups and downs throughout their time here, as has the team as a whole. What I do think is this season he doesn't have an excuse of injuries/the squad not being good enough (which tbf in what was probably our worst ever injury season is a fair excuse). The squad to me is deeper this season whilst not being a top 2/challenge for the title squad. So I would expect us to make top 4 as a minimum this season, which he has done with an equally bad start and a much worse squad in his first season.

 

[Alex99]

So you are judging Onana based on a season where he played for one of the worst teams in the league according to underlying statistics, that ceded possession and control against anyone they faced, even league one sides, and conceded 20 shots every game?

This is basically my whole point, you are judging players based on last season, which is not going to give you true answers.

I'm judging Onana on him regularly looking like a rabbit in the headlights playing for us. Regardless of how many shots were taken, he's conceded a number of very straightforward shots on target.

How else am I supposed to judge players, other than on the most up to date performances? You're judging them on blind hope that they're actually better than what they've shown, because among some of those you've mentioned, there's nothing to suggest they've ever been as good as you seem to think they are/will be.

Antony is definitely a lost cause we should have taken whatever fee we could get for him in the summer. Same with Sancho if Ten Hag had no intention of playing him and invested it into a right winger. Onana I see what everyone else is seeing but for some reason I still think he could come good, or at least be better than he has been. Rashford has a big problem I don't know if he'll ever get over it, he needs help and maybe a change of scenery would be the best thing for him. The likes of Casemiro could still be useful in a different system in my opinion, though granted he's not the player he was 2 years ago.

But despite those issues this squad still has a lot of potential. I personally don't think Ten Hag is getting anywhere near the best out of it.

We've played four competitive games this season. He's conceded six goals from 11 shots on target. Against City and Liverpool he conceded four from four. Obviously that's not a great sample size, but we saw him let in a number of incredibly weak shots last season, and a common complaint is his seeming inability to get to anything that requires any sort of reflex dive.

He's less of a worry than Antony, and our current lack of consistent goalscorer, fit left-back, or back-up midfield options, but it's going to take a remarkable turnaround if he's still going to be here in two or three seasons.

I said up thread that the next four games are basically do or die for Ten Hag. We should not only be winning all four, but we should be getting through them all fairly comfortably if we're to believe that we're actually moving forwards.

 

[SparcMac]

https://
x.com/TenHagEra/status/1833077497409184181

Wait this is an absolute disgrace, whoever published these articles should lose their job.

 

[VP89]

Do you ever tire of playing devils advocate?

Feel free to answer the question.

 

[GoodTimes]

Outside of Casemiro I'm curious which players he makes worse?

If he’s not making the players worse, then surely the fault lies with the manager. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Alex99]

The perception of team quality will always be correlated with their recent performance. Villa have not actually changed their team all that much since Gerrard days and are now perceived as one of the best 6-7 squads in the league, whereas back then they were relegation fodder - McGinn, Konsa, Bailey, Watkins, Martinez etc. had all been there before yet perceived very differently to now.

We have a coach that makes almost every player worse, so it's only natural for us to think it's a very underwhelming group. Until we see them play under someone that adjusts tactics to players he has at his disposal we won't really be able to tell how good we really are.

I think everyone generally expected Villa to not be relegation fodder though. I wouldn't have gone as far as firmly ranking them among the league's top squads, but they certainly had the potential to at least compete for a Europa spot.

For what it's worth, I also expect them to drop off this season. They actually started tailing off in the second half of last season, and will now be balancing their league campaign, which will come with increased expectations, with fixtures against the likes of Bayern Munich and Juventus, rather than Legia Warsaw and Zrinjski Molstar.

 

[VP89]

If he’s not making the players worse, then surely the fault lies with the manager. You can’t have it both ways.

I agree. He's to blame for the poor start this season.

I dont think he's making many players worse though. He needs to tweak the set up better to account for habitual team mistakes.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I don't think Chelsea and Spurs do, at all. Liverpool only because of 4 all-timer players carrying them, otherwise the rest of their squad isn't exactly elite either.

But isn’t part of the point we don’t have those world class players? Those of unquestionable quality apart from Bruno?

Our best players (those who if fit would probably make it into most sides):
Bruno
Martinez
Shaw

I say this as someone who likes the direction the squad is moving in and can see the potential in the squad but right now it’s potential and far from a mature and competitive side compared to others.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

That’s on the manager then. He’s brought in the majority of these sub standard players.

I think to lay this at the feet of the manager our transfer policy over however many years is unfair.

This summer window is the first one with a clear direction.

 

[Borys]

Sure, let’s sack him before arguably the most important / potentially most impactful signing this summer has kicked a ball…

I’m not saying let’s back him blindly, I’m saying I think he should get 4-6 weeks with Ugarte in the side to prove he can make a significant improvement on what we’ve seen. I’m not giving him excuses for injuries again, but what was the point in extending his contract to sack him after 3 games into the season.

If however we don’t see meaningful change with 4 out of this summer’s 5 first team signings all available for the first 10 games in the season, then yes he deserves the sack.

I agree with the general statement, although you get the feeling it's always the next player we're missing that might make it work. It was supposed to be Martinez (who was injured last season). Now, it's Mount missing that is preventing us from being able to press. Any team should not be so reliant on single player. I'd accept if that was a difference between top 4 and challenging for title, or at least 2nd spot, but we're a midtable team now.

I cant believe the negative reaction on ten hag just after 3 games. It appears it is a referendum on him. But come on guys we all know Manutd has a lot to go before catching up with the likes of Liverpool, It was not long ago we lost 4 5 and 7 nil to Liverpool. we have done the first player change on the team signing 5 players and selling 3 or 4 players but it is clear this is not enough. We have strengthened the defense mainly but the midfield and attack has not changed much. Zirkzze is another young player like rasmus and we have not brought any wing player. As for the midfield it needed 2 or 3 midfielders but can only bring one. Maybe it is the ffp rule . If u see against Liverpool it was the same midfield as last year.

In my view Ten hag has to quickly change his tactics and play 4 midfielders Maybe a 4 4 2 or a 3 5 2 formation. He should use the FA cup final as blue print where we played 4 midfielders in amrabat mctominay mainoo bruno and two forwards in garnacho and rashford mainly because our midfield is not strong enough to play only 3 midfielders. We can even try 5 midfielders in certain games . it might be more defensive and we are like acting a mid or lower mid table team but it is a reality. In my view we still short of 3 or more players to compete for Top 4 let alone the Title. I see it as a possible 3 year project with one window done. could it have been better if we chose the chaotic Chelsea way bring 20 players sell 20 players maybe but I am sure lot of fans would be happy if we could have sold more players and bring some more . like a left back. another midfielder and wing player who can score goals and create chances.

Think of Players like casmiro.erikson.mount.onana.lindelof.anthony.rashford..etc we have to possibly clear . See what the attack looks like with the young players . To me it is a midtable team attack. So the bottom line is we unforunatley need time. Can be we do better with another coach yes but he has to be a smart one tacticaly and bring some good players and clear the rest of the bunch.

Are we back in 2022?
Anyway, what's the conclusion here? We need better players to get better results? And what is the manager's role in that process, if any?

 

[Judas]

I agree. He's to blame for the poor start this season.

I dont think he's making many players worse though. He needs to tweak the set up better to account for habitual team mistakes.

It’s more than a tweak needed though, isn’t it? I think this is what has done my head in with him, he seems to just ignore issues, make the same choices over and over, when things just don’t work. I’m not sure it’s stubbornness or ignorance, or a mix of both.

 

[El Zoido]

It’s crazy we’ve crept up to almost 20% wanting to keep him on the poll here. He’s a great manager unless we have to actually play football matches.

 

[VP89]

It’s more than a tweak needed though, isn’t it? I think this is what has done my head in with him, he seems to just ignore issues, make the same choices over and over, when things just don’t work. I’m not sure it’s stubbornness or ignorance, or a mix of both.

If we go by this season it's a small data set, he looks to have had less of a vertical gap between the midfielders and our pressing was improved. And I don't think he's telling casemiro to go nuts with the passing. But at the same time there was a lot of disjointed moments vs Brighton in the backline, ball hunting etc.

As I say I'm waiting to find out, our backline is half changed. He's really on a last chance saloon with next games.

 

[stevoc]

I'm judging Onana on him regularly looking like a rabbit in the headlights playing for us. Regardless of how many shots were taken, he's conceded a number of very straightforward shots on target.

How else am I supposed to judge players, other than on the most up to date performances? You're judging them on blind hope that they're actually better than what they've shown, because among some of those you've mentioned, there's nothing to suggest they've ever been as good as you seem to think they are/will be.



We've played four competitive games this season. He's conceded six goals from 11 shots on target. Against City and Liverpool he conceded four from four. Obviously that's not a great sample size, but we saw him let in a number of incredibly weak shots last season, and a common complaint is his seeming inability to get to anything that requires any sort of reflex dive.

He's less of a worry than Antony, and our current lack of consistent goalscorer, fit left-back, or back-up midfield options, but it's going to take a remarkable turnaround if he's still going to be here in two or three seasons.

I said up thread that the next four games are basically do or die for Ten Hag. We should not only be winning all four, but we should be getting through them all fairly comfortably if we're to believe that we're actually moving forwards.

Agreed for Erik it's now or never. A lot of people gave him the benefit of the doubt last year because of the injuries. But there seems to be a feeling that most fans won't have much patiences for more excuses this season.

And yeah I wouldn't bet any decent money on the the club/next manager wanting to keep Onana long term.

 

[stevoc]

I think to lay this at the feet of the manager our transfer policy over however many years is unfair.

This summer window is the first one with a clear direction.

So who was directing the last two?

 

[Laurencio]

But isn’t part of the point we don’t have those world class players? Those of unquestionable quality apart from Bruno?

Our best players (those who if fit would probably make it into most sides):
Bruno
Martinez
Shaw

I say this as someone who likes the direction the squad is moving in and can see the potential in the squad but right now it’s potential and far from a mature and competitive side compared to others.

How long are we supposed to wait? A year, two, three? By the time someone like Yoro matures a bunch of other players - including our "three best players" will be declining.

A poor manager will result in poor playing performance, which can and probably will provide us with an inaccurate understanding of the quality this team has or does not have.

Is Casemiro really no longer capable of playing in the premier league, or is he being let down by tactics? Is Shaw's career over, or is the training leading to injuries? Did Mount turn into a nothing player, or is he not being given the framework to perform? Is Rashford done at this level? Are so many of our signings busts, or is there more going on here? Why is Bruno, arguably our best player, not performing at the level he used to? Why is everyone notably worse than they were before they joined us?

How much of individual player decline is down to the manager?

 

[golden_blunder]

Feel free to answer the question.

I’m curious because you pop up in every thread taking the opposite view to the majority

 

[Sarni]

I'm not ready to say he makes every player worse, after all Rashford had his best season under us (and had started his decline into averageness before Ten Hag). The players who were here before him have underperformed under other managers so there is nothing new there. The players he has signed all have had ups and downs throughout their time here, as has the team as a whole. What I do think is this season he doesn't have an excuse of injuries/the squad not being good enough (which tbf in what was probably our worst ever injury season is a fair excuse). The squad to me is deeper this season whilst not being a top 2/challenge for the title squad. So I would expect us to make top 4 as a minimum this season, which he has done with an equally bad start and a much worse squad in his first season.

Rashford has had one good season and one horrible season under him. Prior to ETH joining he was good up until 21-22 when he was horrible, so if anything he just went back to his form pre-2021 or close (he was fantastic in 2019-20 for instance, possibly even better than 22-23). He's now back to being as useless as he was in 21-22.

 

[Alex99]

Agreed for Erik it's now or never. A lot of people gave him the benefit of the doubt last year because of the injuries. But there seems to be a feeling that most fans won't have much patiences for more excuses this season.

And yeah I wouldn't bet any decent money on the the club/next manager wanting to keep Onana long term.

I said it in another comment, but the only player currently out injured that I'd expect to make a noticeable difference to our first eleven is Shaw, and even then, we seem content with Dalot & Mazraoui.

Ugarte should also help, so with that in mind, and the relatively kind fixture list, there really can't be any excuses for not showing massive improvements.

 

[VP89]

I’m curious because you pop up in every thread taking the opposite view to the majority

Well the majority aren't always right. Especially on the caf.

Anyway, my view is that our problem right now is more down to habitual team errors rather than any standalone individual standards dropping. Can't think of many or any players worsened under Ten Hag compared to where he picked them up from. Bar casemiro that is.

 

[golden_blunder]

Well the majority aren't always right. Especially on the caf.

Anyway, my view is that our problem right now is more down to habitual team errors rather than any standalone individual standards dropping. Can't think of many or any players worsened under Ten Hag compared to where he picked them up from. Bar casemiro that is.

It’s a strange one because I’d argue that he has in fact improved some individuals, or they have improved naturally under his charge. For example Dalot. I also thought that AWB had improved too. We may see those improvements now he’s at West Ham.

However, at the same time I believe that his tactics are holding this group back and in fact making them look bad. Because with this tactic there is no middle ground, win or bust

 

[Laurencio]

It’s a strange one because I’d argue that he has in fact improved some individuals, or they have improved naturally under his charge. For example Dalot. I also thought that AWB had improved too. We may see those improvements now he’s at West Ham.

However, at the same time I believe that his tactics are holding this group back and in fact making them look bad. Because with this tactic there is no middle ground, win or bust

He was a brilliant coach for Ajax, playing sensational football at times and helped the career of a lot of players - he clearly isn't completely incompetent. The good far outweighed the bad for them. That is probably also why so many people are quick to defend him. The problem is that we aren’t seeing enough of that good here.

At this point it seems like the Premier League is just a step or two too much for him. How come he can't even get convicing wins against minnows, is anyone's guess.

 

[VP89]

It’s a strange one because I’d argue that he has in fact improved some individuals, or they have improved naturally under his charge. For example Dalot. I also thought that AWB had improved too. We may see those improvements now he’s at West Ham.

However, at the same time I believe that his tactics are holding this group back and in fact making them look bad. Because with this tactic there is no middle ground, win or bust

Yeah I agree with this. Weirdly though I do think that is starting to change, even if Liverpool did destroy us.

For me it is the Brighton loss that has put him under pressure and pissed me off. If we beat Brighton then a L to Liverpool is palatable, but the same silly mistakes means hes under immediate pressure. And I'm not saying he shouldn't be.

He's now in a situation where he should be getting 7 pts out of the next 9 in my books. Away to Palace among that with Spurs and Villa. Even those with most patience toward the manager will find out once and for all whether they were onto something by giving him their time, or if the experiment was long past it's end date.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Just me or was this weekend just gone particularly wonderful ?

 

[erikcred]

It’s a strange one because I’d argue that he has in fact improved some individuals, or they have improved naturally under his charge. For example Dalot. I also thought that AWB had improved too. We may see those improvements now he’s at West Ham.

However, at the same time I believe that his tactics are holding this group back and in fact making them look bad. Because with this tactic there is no middle ground, win or bust

What?! Now ETH gets credit for players playing well elsewhere?

 

[Freak]

Just me or was this weekend just gone particularly wonderful ?

I loved it. No disappointments, got some good time with the family and woke up on a Sunday late and happy

 

[Alex99]

Yeah I agree with this. Weirdly though I do think that is starting to change, even if Liverpool did destroy us.

For me it is the Brighton loss that has put him under pressure and pissed me off. If we beat Brighton then a L to Liverpool is palatable, but the same silly mistakes means hes under immediate pressure. And I'm not saying he shouldn't be.

He's now in a situation where he should be getting 7 pts out of the next 9 in my books. Away to Palace among that with Spurs and Villa. Even those with most patience toward the manager will find out once and for all whether they were onto something by giving him their time, or if the experiment was long past it's end date.

As far as I'm concerned, the ice is well and truly cracking under him now.

We've got Ugarte to bolster the midfield, and the injuries to Mount, Hojlund and Yoro really shouldn't affect first team performance that much. Even Shaw, who I think would immediately improve the starting 11, is a player we're seemingly happy to be covered by Dalot/Mazraoui.

If we can't reach the next international break having comfortably brought home 9+ points in the league, 4+ points in the Europa, and cruised through to the next round of the league cup, then he should be sacked.

 

[Sarni]

As far as I'm concerned, the ice is well and truly cracking under him now.

We've got Ugarte to bolster the midfield, and the injuries to Mount, Hojlund and Yoro really shouldn't affect first team performance that much. Even Shaw, who I think would immediately improve the starting 11, is a player we're seemingly happy to be covered by Dalot/Mazraoui.

If we can't reach the next international break having comfortably brought home 9+ points in the league, 4+ points in the Europa, and cruised through to the next round of the league cup, then he should be sacked.

I hope this is right because I can honestly see us getting 2-3 points out of our next 3 league games and people still excusing him with some made up ‘circumstances’.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Our defense is okay, probably our best position, but still nothing spectacular.

What is a spectacular defense?

 

[Shark]

I hope this is right because I can honestly see us getting 2-3 points out of our next 3 league games and people still excusing him with some made up ‘circumstances’.

The goalposts wil just move, yeah. "Can't believe these lunatics are judging ETH after 6 games". He'll need Yoro and Shaw back before we can see his system.

 

[Alex99]

I hope this is right because I can honestly see us getting 2-3 points out of our next 3 league games and people still excusing him with some made up ‘circumstances’.

I was willing to be quite patient last season, because our injury crisis was bad. I had frustrations with the lack of attempt at covering for that injury crisis by persisting with a tactic that wasn't working, and thought the whole "Varane can't play on the left side" thing was an utterly bizarre excuse for leaving him out of the team, compounded by him returning to the team while Evans shifted to the right.

The only noteable injury this season is Shaw, as Zirkzee is in to rotate with Hojlund, Mount hasn't cemented a starting place anyway, and Yoro was always likely to be a rotation option.

If we struggle with this upcoming run of fixtures, I honestly don't know what excuse people can come up with and maintain a straight face.

What is a spectacular defense?

In this context, "spectacular" was just another way of saying special/particularly notable/standout.

I think it's our strongest area of the pitch (if you count the goalkeeper as its own thing), but we have no fit left-back, and our centre-back options are very much reliant on De Ligt finding his feet soon and Martinez refinding his pre-injury form. I'm really not seeing how it's comfortably better than the defensive options at all of Villa, Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle, and it certainly isn't on a par with what City, Arsenal and Liverpool have.