They build their fortresses right in the middle of water, so that wouldn't make a difference for them:
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Tactical setup definitely yes, squad building no.
Well if he wasn’t, then why are we giving him shit for not doing it at United? He’s the guy who sets them up tactically to play that way, no?
It's why we need to keep ten Hag for the foreseeable. This crazy mindset about managers won't change until we prove that having many years and a squad full of their own players does not turn someone into Sir Alex.
Sack him now and we'll be hearing the same about the next guy regardless of how poor he is. It will always be "the players got him sacked" even though the majority of the managers post Fergie have had a terrible record with their transfers, but getting them more of their men is supposed to change things for the better.
All the players bought by José that he needed to make his own squad were immediately a problem for Ole, so he needed his own players. Then, all the players bought for him immediately became a problem for ten Hag, so he needed his own players. Now, he's being let down by all the players who were here before him as our best performing players are all of his signings of course, so we need to keep rewarding him with his own players because if we sack him now, all of his signings that have been great business up until this Wednesday will be considered a problem by Thursday because they are not the next guys players. That's how this apparently works. It's not like we've only had one period of decent form under him that lasted a few months out of over two years solely down to a player who's been in the first team since 2016 being in world class form.
Opta prediction after 5 rounds puts us in eighth spot again, sounds about right, maybe a bit positive.
Change now has little sense. Stay with Ten Hag and sign Xabi Alonso next year.
Yes that part is true. I was responding to the second paragraph in the other post where they said "surely they agreed to change the compensation structure" or something to that effect.
The sad part is I'm not surprised anymore if we finished 8th again. Before last season, this was absolutely not acceptable at all. Failed to get top 4 managers were sacked previously.
Nowadays our standards have lowered. It will be aong season again unless Ineos Team take swift action. As things stand, they are worse than Woodward and Murtough in term of football.
Just watch the opening goal vs Liverpool and Tottenham and you'll see the flaw in ETH idea.
The team tries to go forward too quickly and loose the ball, defensive transition happens and we concede.
It's a very unintelligent way of playing, it reflects in his transfers with the profile he signs in midfield. Casemiro, Ugarte, Mount are his big midfield buys. All kick and rush style.
The team tries to go forward too quickly and loose the ball, defensive transition happens and we concede.
It's a very unintelligent way of playing, it reflects in his transfers with the profile he signs in midfield. Casemiro, Ugarte, Mount are his big midfield buys. All kick and rush style.
That was my point mate, their all country is subject to inondation !They build their fortresses right in the middle of water, so that wouldn't make a difference for them:
Agree with this 100%. I thought that he was going to bring that style of play to us. I figured it would take some time as he got in the right players, but was always looking for a sign that we were starting to play differently with more of a structure and plan.
It's the biggest thing at the moment – every team we play seems to have an idea of what they are trying to achieve in possession. I cannot remember the last time we looked like we knew what we were doing, or even looked as though the players had played together before.
I have no idea who should replace him, but we are no closer to turning the corner now after 3 years. If there had been glimpses, then more time might help. But there have been none.
I think a big part of the problem is how cheaply we give away the ball. This of course allows the opposition to pressure us or control the game, so we either can't do anything or are under pressure
Why is the passing so abysmal? What do they DO in training?
We can't score, so we can't make up for the defensive frailties, it's just a complete and utter shit show.
I'd love to know our passing completion rates and where they stand in the league
Mentality is a huge problem still, the opposition score and we fold like a deck of cards, Sunday was especially disgusting, they scored early and its like multiple players just completely gave up despite having a whole game remaining. Embarrassing. It doesn't help he keeps playing under performing players, so there's no accountability they just get picked no matter what.
I had hope when he was appointed, thought we'd finally got the right one. Back to square one and it'll set us further back the longer we draw this out.
Why is the passing so abysmal? What do they DO in training?
We can't score, so we can't make up for the defensive frailties, it's just a complete and utter shit show.
I'd love to know our passing completion rates and where they stand in the league
Mentality is a huge problem still, the opposition score and we fold like a deck of cards, Sunday was especially disgusting, they scored early and its like multiple players just completely gave up despite having a whole game remaining. Embarrassing. It doesn't help he keeps playing under performing players, so there's no accountability they just get picked no matter what.
I had hope when he was appointed, thought we'd finally got the right one. Back to square one and it'll set us further back the longer we draw this out.
Yes, it is terrible we are thinking of 8th as fair prognosis and not surprising. Unbelievable how we have lowered out expectations and standards.
With you on that. The switch on here was incredible to behold. Big Sam or any other manager could have pulled out that one-off performance, so not sure how on evidence of 2 full seasons, people convinced themselves of future success with this manager.
There were shoots of improvement in the first few games, mind, but nowhere near enough. Our form has been wretched for a long time.
What?! We didn't offer him a new contract, did we?
I'm now wondering are they allowing the season to capitulate under Ten Hag to justify raising ticket prices next season to offset no European football.
His Ajax side played some shit football as well and he struggled in his final season although they won the championship. Which is easier in the Eredivisie when you have such a strong group of players he had that year. A lot of people said this from the start. The champions league season was a really remarkable group of players and it all clicked.
Top half of the table? Get in
I think a big part of this is due to the captain and other senior players like Rashford.
Unfortunately they are the 2 regular senior players, and the rest are rather young. Regardless of his form, Bruno can be a brilliant player when his game is implemented and constrained properly. However, he should not be captain. Way too emotional. His game falls to pieces when things go wrong, sometimes even a perceived undeserved yellow card causes him to lose his head. He needs another senior player to tell him to snap out of it. Rashford incidentally just goes into a sulk.
When we get a new manager, I don't think either should be mainstays, and should play like everyone else based on form. I'd rather the captaincy go to one of the boys in defence but I'm also fully aware that could cause issues in the dressing room.
I've always blamed the player culture at United in recent years for our failures and not the manager.
Even with ETH, I have put the blame on the players for failing another manager but that cannot surely be the case anymore.
A lot of the players that started vrs Spurs where players he has brought in so we cannot solely blame the players this time.
Our shape compared to Spurs where poles apart and that comes down to coaching i'm afraid.
I looked at both line ups before the game and I thought we had by far the superior line up and would win this game but it showed a well drilled side can brush aside a side that has no shape whatsoever.
The players should be ashamed of themselves again but the manager has had enough time by now to address the previous failings.
Even with ETH, I have put the blame on the players for failing another manager but that cannot surely be the case anymore.
A lot of the players that started vrs Spurs where players he has brought in so we cannot solely blame the players this time.
Our shape compared to Spurs where poles apart and that comes down to coaching i'm afraid.
I looked at both line ups before the game and I thought we had by far the superior line up and would win this game but it showed a well drilled side can brush aside a side that has no shape whatsoever.
The players should be ashamed of themselves again but the manager has had enough time by now to address the previous failings.
How is this stuff actually predicted? For example they have City 10 points clear of Arsenal which feels...off.
Not saying this isn't true, but how much of Ajax have you seen? How do we know that they were quite ok tactically and just dominant because the squad was just so much better than the competition?
I find it hard to believe that he was able to coach Ajax and then came up with this shit. Maybe he isn't that good at coaching, or maybe he wasn't even responsible for that in the first place. We did replace the whole coaching squad this summer and we DO see a shift in tactics, that would imply Eric is maybe not really steering this as we've imagined?
His last season at Ajax was a real struggle. They played horrible stuff and struggled in a lot of games they should have steamrolled.
It was the predictions after last GW. It would look different now with us getting smashed by Spurs and Rodri now being out for the season.
I would think we're down at bottom half and the gap between City, Arsenal and City would be smaller based on the last weeks events.
Sure, but what I'm asking are what models do they use to predict each result.
Mitten dropped a piece on Athletic putting some interesting focus on player power. Wonder if we just lost faith in the dressing room at this point.
Not even sure about that anymore. Like you say, it all clicked and probably momentum did the rest. Too much was read into beating an aging Real and Juve.
Apparently he is blaming 'financial restrictions ' on Uniteds predicament ! How much did he spunk on Antony?
I think it should be pretty obvious by now that implementing a strat/style philosophy at Ajax in the Eredivisie is not directly translatable/transferable to a big "chasing" club in the PL. Being the powerhouse in the Eredivisie and being lucky with getting the best generation in ages through the academy makes it easier to succeed. The squad he had at his disposal there was just ridiculous compared to the rest of the league, but would still struggle get top 8 in the PL. That's his problem and it seems it is his only recipe.
It is really hard to believe after how shite they played last yr that 1 game saved him. If they were hoping for Southgate, that is just same manager different face. Regardless, you can put some butter on ETH 'cause he is toast. I would be surprised if it happens before the international break, but fingers crossed. He can take Bruno with him as well!
This team is not as bad as the standings say they are, the catalyst is a poor manager.
This team is not as bad as the standings say they are, the catalyst is a poor manager.
He’s had the most backing out of any manager post Fergie. He’s the one guy who can’t say ‘if only they’d listened to me…’
What, we have to do something really, really stupid for a long time, because that's the only way we can stop being stupid?
Anyone with half a brain already knows that having many years and a squad full of their own players does not turn someone into Sir Alex.
Also, you are exaggerating the issue of inherited players. Some tend to get the axe, but also many don't. Ole stuck with Lindelof, Pogba, Bailly, Matic and Fred. Lukaku and Sanchez were really the only Mourinho signings who were pushed out. EtH has stuck with Maguire, Bruno and Amad, dropping Ronaldo, AWB, van de Beek, Telles, Pellistri, Sancho and Varane. But most of those are due to other reasons than being viewed differently by a new manager.
We need at least some kind of source for this kind of stuff. Otherwise you’ll set the thread off for a load of pages.
He has been the most disappointing manager in the league since SAF that's for sure, we look closer to a relegation side than title contender
I'd love to see a quote on that
No way that's true. I can't believe this guy has gaslighted so many fans for so long with the absolute bollocks he comes out with.
There’s a full season to play for to write off a season in September/early October would be crazy
100%What, we have to do something really, really stupid for a long time, because that's the only way we can stop being stupid?
Short term pain for long term gain.
I agree Iraola is a top coach but I feel "championship level squad" is a bit harsh, they may not have the best depth but they do have some real quality in their starting 11.
The kids know that mummy and daddy are getting divorced. Mummy and daddy are unfortunately still in denial.