I wouldn't dispute that. But based on what also happens on the pitch, it's fair to say that we haven't appointed particularly well. A bigger problem though, is that we keep underperforming managers on far longer than we should.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I wouldn't dispute that. But based on what also happens on the pitch, it's fair to say that we haven't appointed particularly well. A bigger problem though, is that we keep underperforming managers on far longer than we should.
That's a good point too. If Jose and Ole had been let go after their second place finishes when it was clear they'd taken the team as far as they could, and then the club built on those seasons instead of throwing all the progress away, I think their respective tenures would be viewed much more positively today.
Of course they would, especially Ole. There was positivity around Ole's second place finish but definitely not around Jose's, who had started his transition into a toxic weirdo by that point.
I'm not so sure about that. I suspect that they've all been constantly undermined, Jose and Ole did as well as they could be expected to do. Can we honestly look back over the last 10 years and imagine any scenario where any manager could have done anything respectable? Perhaps bringing in Jose instead of Moyes could have worked but, other than that, none of them have stood a chance.
I'm, reluctantly, in full agreement that it makes sense to ditch ten Hag at this point as there's clearly an issue between him and the rest of the management structure.
Not sure if oppo fan or just delusional.
I do actually think he can be a success here, but it feels like he is dangerously close to losing the players. A lot of his players are still not up to full fitness or played together for a very long time. It's not a surprise our best players have played with each other before (Onana, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Martinez). Defenders don't win you matches when you can't score though, so it's a bit moot. If we can't get the attack scoring and the midfield playing, he's a done for. One positive is that he leaves a very solid defensive base for a new manager to build on.
How anyone can look at the last 18+ months and feel that Ten Hag can be a success here is truly beyond me.
What have you seen that makes you believe in him still? What progress are you looking at? Everything points to the longer he is here the worse it gets.
Amazing stat: In his first 6 games of a season we have never had a positive goal difference
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I'm a bit calmer, or maybe apathy has taken over - but I do feel a bit better about the future. Ten Hag won't be the manager, and I do think the hierarchy are serious about challenging by 2028. We are still only a few months under the new structure, and they are clearly planning for the future - the young signings and stadium plans are evidence of this. Ten Hag will not be our manager within the next month, let's see what the hierarchy are about because this will be their first challenge and they have done well up until now. Remember, Ashworth and Berrada were not involved in keeping Ten Hag, but they will oversee his removal and replacement - they deserve a chance to see what they can do.
I never understood why some people take that obnoxious piece of lard seriously.
Points in their last 15 Premier League games:
Everton: 21
Man Utd: 19
Everton: 21
Man Utd: 19
That's fair enough, but he's shown he can win individual big games, resulting in cups. Which means he has tactical nouse and can motivate a team. Sunday was bad, but I generally think we've not actually played that bad this season, bar our finishing. So I don't think it's particularly far fetched that we can be successful, obviously that requires improvement - which isn't guaranteed at all, but I think our new players will improve and I hope players like Garnacho, Rashford, Zirkzee, Amad, Bruno and Hojlund can start finishing these chances we are creating.
At this point surely it's one person with multiple accounts posting this nonsense? How can there be so many of you?
That's all fine but I'm just wondering how good was actually that Ajax side, has anyone watched them regularly or is it just something people say? It seems like he came here with undisputed reputation of a good coach, but I don't place him higher than Ole. Quite the opposite actually.
They were good enough to win the league and get one deep run in the CL.
For us, Ole did a much better job than ETH has done.
Well if you look at our actual underlying stats or the chances we create during games, we should have scored double the goals we currently have. Our defence looks good, but our midfield hasn't improved. We knew that was going to be the case when we didn't sign Ugarte, who we chased all window, until the last minute. Based on our problems last season, there's been improvement in chance creation, but a decline in finishing. We look a bit better at the back, but just as bad in midfield - mainly as we haven't change the personnel. I want it to be better, but we didn't prioritize midfield in the summer.
I don’t even think anime plots are this convoluted
There’s a saying in corporate “culture eats strategy for breakfast”. So yeah, managers have all ended up “failing” but the rot started at the top (Glazers, Woodward & the type of players they signed etc).
Doesn’t negate the managers performance but there’s a reason Klopp avoided us like a plague. Disneyland. EtH has got to go, but hoping the Ineos bunch get to shape the culture correctly. We’ve celebrated/rewarded mediocrity and failure for far too long.
I'm glad they can stay calm after watching the atrocity on Sunday. Says a lot, too.
He's a serial loser. How can a manchester united manager still be here when he's overseen many heavy defeats over 3 years.
I don't think winning or challenging by 2028 is something you plan for, it's something you should build towards and we haven't done that yet. Very early into their tenure and it looks like we are prepared to write off year 1 after making wrong call on manager in the Summer, and it doesn't seem likely that we are going to rectify this anytime soon - more like we will let him try to fix this time after time, as if his well-being and success are more important than clubs long term success.
I also think people have projected a lot on Ashworth and Berrada, they still have quite a bit to prove before we can confidently say that they are competent enough to have us challenging for major trophies.
I like him a lot but I wonder about how easy it is to put that style into a top club where the egos are difficult to mould. If you think of some of the really excellent coaches of the last 5 years who kept really poor teams up by being elite pressing and aggressive teams - Iraola, Hasenhuttl, Bielsa I’d argue did wonders with an initially average team - I’m not sure many of the top players we have possess the mentality to go into such a system where off the ball work is so taxing.
Yeah, if our strikers managed to convert the 0.3 xG at half time against Spurs, or 0.1 xG at half time against Liverpool into goals, then we would have been so much better off. All these top chances these fecking players keep missing.
Marcus, see those two white posts over there? ….try kicking the fecking ball somewhere between them.
Ole had the exact same issue. A fair few on here said he played much better football with Molde but couldn't implement it here. The same has happened to ETH so it needs to be a cautionary tale.
Add Bayern Munich with Kompany to that list. I think even Maresca at Chelsea is another one.
Nothing but pure delusion, or as the kids call it these days “copium”.
That's fine but remember that Ole had to put up with Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, McTominay, Fred, aging Matic and half arsed Pogba as the half of the team. He did have stronger forwards but that football was not really worse than what we've seen under Ten Hag, who has much better resources at his disposal.
It was Ole though bought Maguire and AWB, he spent a ridiculous 130m on them.
There has to be a pivotal moment at some point where one game or certain fixtures change the tide.
My view is it wouldn't be the spurs game but given how that went, it's probably a deviation of one or two games around it.
Craig Burley is spot on here
You can’t avoid the fact that Oli pressured the board to sign Maguire as well as paying over the odds for AWB.
Burley isn't a credible source and talks absolute pish...but he's spot on here.
Absolutely nothing against you being a believers, but this whole bullsh*t about our xG is just funny really and needs to stop
our xG is 10.81, putting us 9th (Tott, Arsen, Liv leading by a margin of 5+) our xGA is 13.10 ( ! ) which puts us top 4th worst team after Leicester Ipswitch and Soton and our xPts are 8.63 which implies we are currently slightly underperforming this by one whole position in the league.
People keep saying our xG our xG seem to forget hour xGA which is one of the worst in the league.
We're shite, i dont understand why people cant see it, and i find it more offensive that there are individuals that are willing to defend this atrocity because Zirkzee managed to string 2 passess together in 4 games. We're closer to being a relegation team for 2 years, and we are still delusional.
Yes we could have scored 5 more but there are very few instances of teams that match or surpass their xG (Chelsea being one, on average every team gets 1-3 goals less than their xG in PL), and we could have conceited 5 more, which btw is the highest in the league (by far)
In summary, if we gonna quote stats, we need to be scrutinising the whole dataset and not the stat that makes us look good. I'm sure E10H talks about xG but it's convenient to ignore the goals against. or the 7 points tally. or the xPTS
So if i just take Brighton and Palace, where we should really at minimum be getting a draw and win if we could finish our chances, we'd be on 10 points. I'm not denying the Spurs and Liverpool games were terrible and I think there are varying reasons as to why they were such bad performances, but a large part for me is midfield. That's the area we didn't prioritise this summer, so it's not really a surprise.
I mean, Cook, Christie, Semenyo, Tavernier and Smith. They are very much championship level to me. Iraola would be my choice for a manager in the league, for what it's worth. Something about that region creates quality managers!
The discussion was about stability in the club regarding criticism of fans who believe that a manager can come in, build and stay for a long term period of success like Fergie. My argument was that no manager on the planet could've achieved that under the circumstances. Am I wrong?You guys just get here and say anything
Even that analogy at the end was perfectly put, considering what happened this summer with the "appointment"(or whatever you want to call it) of ETH.
So many here called it, I felt it as well, he isn't the man for the job. But I didn't want to be too negative, so I wanted to give him another chance(silly me I know). But he's proven (once again) he doesn't know what to do with the team anymore.
Also just read a quote from Andy Mitten on X about what players told him after the FA Cup final, which is pretty telling imo, if it's true or not I don't know, but Mitten has been around the team for quite some time, so I do believe him to a certain degree. Can't post media, so I will just copy the quote.
"An hour after the FA Cup final win, I spoke to half a dozen of United players outside the dressing room and asked them about the manager. The words weren’t being recorded. Not one said the manager should absolutely be sacked. And not one said he should absolutely stay. Yet there were clear issues between players and manager about his style.
"One of them said, 'You cannot have teams in the relegation zone like Sheffield United and Burnley coming to Old Trafford and carving us open,'"[The Athletic]
Really?
A billion quid to spend over the last decade, able to attract 90% of the players on the planet, massive fanbase, big stadium.
I'd say its the other way around. There shouldn't be a manager capable of measing that up.