Crazy how Slot and Maresca don’t need 3 years
This whole 3 year bullshit started with Ole and hasn't fecked off for some reason.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
This whole 3 year bullshit started with Ole and hasn't fecked off for some reason.
They have inherited better squads to work with.Crazy how Slot and Maresca don’t need 3 years
Our squad is decent this season only. It's not complete yet but the starting 11 is comparable with Chelsea or Liverpool now.
This is Ten Hags 3rd season with a 3rd squad. This season is the one we can judge him properly in the league. He's shown he can win cup competitions and get us to finals.
If we don't compete well against Spurs and Aston Villa it would be a bad sign for him. We have to do better than the both of them to get top 4 this season which should be our aim.
If in a few games we're way off the top 4 then I wouldn't mind INEOS looking at another manager if there was a clear improvement on Ten Hag out there.
I'm not seeing many that I think would be better, possibly Nagellsmann or a Ancelotti if we can get him next season.
The improvements in our play, both defensively and attacking wise are clear to see for those that actually know football. The problem is converting chances and I don't see how changing a manager improves the chance conversion %.
Casuals will not see any improvement in the football.
Spearheaded by Gary Neville for a) blatantly helping a mate, b) based on his managerial experiences even though I think he’s said he doesn’t want to be a manager anymore after Valencia and c) for some reason thinking Manchester United is a completely different entity that’s not like any other football club.
And as everyone probably knows by now, the team he has an ownership stake in averages a new manager every season for the past 5-6 years or so.
Liverpool have a better starting XI by some distance and also Chelsea are improving faster than us.
We wasted too much money on Antony, Casemiro and Mount when we could have signed Rice, Olise and Gravenberch.
We have a midtable team and manager and hence will end up at midtable 8-10th spot.
VAR has been mostly negative in my view. This idea that near perfection quantum mm decisions is better, even when it entirely slows down the game , is nonsense. It absolutely ruins the entertainment and enjoyment of the game.
I approve this post, it’s pretty much exactly how I feel
Agree with this. Was talking about this the other day to someone that couldn’t see clear improvements in our style. We’re not getting blown away by chances like last year, the problem we’re seeing this year is converting chances, which we’ve had a problem with this for a while, if Rashford isn’t on form then we struggle as we rely on him quite a bit, we’re hoping Zirkzee and Hojlund can contribute to goals but scoring isn’t the main part of Zirkzee game which we all know. His hold up play is quality and helps us keep the ball. Like you said a new manager won’t help us score goals with the same players we have. A new manager could implement a better system and tactics though which may help us score goals.
Completely agree. Flawed concept and execution.
How often has Ten Hag finished mid table for you to be able to confirm without reasonable doubt that his level is mid table?
I feel like I’m living in opposite world sometimes reading some of the posts - in what conceivable way is our starting 11 on a par with Liverpool’s??
It pains me to say it but Salah, Diaz and Jota will score more goals this season than our entire team. Even Nunez will probably out score Hoijlund. They have two full backs that will have something like 25 assists. They’ve got a far better goalkeeper, and Macallister, Slobozlai and Gravenberch don’t even seem to need to play all the time to score most weeks.
Sick of the acceptance of mediocrity at United. Ten hag and the clubs recruitment has been appalling and our league position is reflective of it.
We seem to get by on blind optimism rather than reality
It pains me to say it but Salah, Diaz and Jota will score more goals this season than our entire team. Even Nunez will probably out score Hoijlund. They have two full backs that will have something like 25 assists. They’ve got a far better goalkeeper, and Macallister, Slobozlai and Gravenberch don’t even seem to need to play all the time to score most weeks.
Sick of the acceptance of mediocrity at United. Ten hag and the clubs recruitment has been appalling and our league position is reflective of it.
We seem to get by on blind optimism rather than reality
Crazy how Slot and Maresca don’t need 3 years
We are 1 month into the season, mate. I'm neither ten Hag in or out just yet, but this talk is so premature after just 5 game weeks.
People were saying the exact same things last season about Postecoglou, because they had an excellent start. 1 year later, and the mighty November champions didn't even make top 4, and might not make it this season either. And if they will, it will be by scraping 4th.
And the season before last? United were playing alright football under ten Hag, put together a 5 month long run of decent results, and were at one point considered to be in the title race with Arsenal and City for a few weeks in January 2023.
How many people must have said "Crazy how ten Hag doesn't need 3 years like Ole" back then?
Is ETH as ruthless as Ole? I’m not sure. Solskjær would win games like 5-1, 3-0, 9-0. ETH on the other hand is happy with 1 or 2 goals and then shuts up shop by playing possession football. We need to be ruthless and score as many as we can. Get our GD as high as possible. This must come down to managers not encouraging them enough to score more goals. Some managers are happy trying to hold onto leads rather than extend them.
Not just that , but when your team starts wasting chances , then conceding a goal and going a goal down has a bigger impact mentally on getting back into the game.
Bruno and Rashford are our main attacking experienced forward players. Amad, Garnacho and Hoijland are still relatively inexperienced.
I think INEOs are playing the long game and while not totally writing the season off , they are looking for ETH to literally play younger players into experience at expense of the now. Our squad may not be the youngest but I wouldn’t say there’s many top teams starting games with 3- 4 of their outfield 6 players on front of defence being under 21. Mainoo, Garnacho and Hoijland would all prob start when fully match fit. Amad is starting to get more games.
I mean Zirks is only 23 and it’s his first season in EPL aswell. People seem to look at the squad and think “he can’t complain now, he has everything he wants” , yet the whole squad (and club) has changed while he’s been there. Liverpool changed manager but have the same experienced squad that challanged for the league.
In saying all that , he’s running out of time. I can see the improvements and would love to sim the league to December where I’d be hoping we had started to really build up some momentum but the pressure is really starting to ramp up. Feels like we are close to clicking but results eventually become too important to ignore.
I voted sack, and to be honest I felt like he should have been sacked October last year, though I became briefly optimistic after the cup win. Part of me still believes we’re only a couple of huge performances from turning it all around.
He’s got almost a new starting 11 of his choice, he’s got new owners and knowledgeable people above him, he’s had more time in the job than can reasonably be expected. There are some signs of improvement over last season, but he has to show a lot more than that. There is the definite suggestion of a solid defence coming into life, but without the goals it won’t save him.
I think we’ll find out in the next three games what he’s really made of, whether there really is a plan, and whether he has any hope of seeing it realized in time to save the season (and his job).
He’s got almost a new starting 11 of his choice, he’s got new owners and knowledgeable people above him, he’s had more time in the job than can reasonably be expected. There are some signs of improvement over last season, but he has to show a lot more than that. There is the definite suggestion of a solid defence coming into life, but without the goals it won’t save him.
I think we’ll find out in the next three games what he’s really made of, whether there really is a plan, and whether he has any hope of seeing it realized in time to save the season (and his job).
He's a lower than midtable manager, dragging a top 6 squad down.
Hojlund 70m, Zirkee 40m, Antony 80m, Mount 55m and that's 245m Hag has spent on the attack and adding it to Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho, Amad and Sancho when he was here. How we have not scored more than 5 goals with the amount we have spent and what we have available is pretty astonishing.
I'll stick "hope" he turns this around but the evidence is not looking great against him.
I'll stick "hope" he turns this around but the evidence is not looking great against him.
The crazy thing is how far the standards have fallen, we have been irrelevant for 2 years now and so when the team plays slightly better you hear well there is improvement. Guess what it's almost impossible for any manager to do worse than he did last season
Has he been backed on the transfer market?
I won't say he hasn't been, because that wouldn't be true, but at the same time, I feel like the most vehement ten Hag outers are just simply not willing to contextualize anything about the recruitment under ETH, and will just say "600m spent", and it's case closed for them.
However:
Martínez basically missed more than a full season worth of games by now.
Malacia hasn't played since the 2022/23 season.
Mount has barely played.
Antony shouldn't have been okayed by ten Hag at such a ridiculous fee, but the Glazers shouldn't have interfered with our recruitment either and shouldn't have been willing to pay 3 times the player's real market value to Ajax. ETH is somewhat at fault for this, but it's far from solely being his fault.
Casemiro is another player he arguably shouldn't have accepted, but once again, what was the club thinking? Especially when according to the Athletic, they knew signing him meant no Kane or Rice next summer?
Why did the club tell him it was okay to send Reguilón back to Spurs, as Malacia and Shaw would be returning for the second half of last season?
Yoro hasn't played.
De Ligt, Zirkzee, Ugarte and Mazraoui have just started their United careers.
There's an argument to be made that the only signings ten Hag has managed to regularly use so far are Eriksen, Hojlund, Amrabat, and Onana, but the two Danes have also missed a considerable amount of games due to injury. That's not to say the tactical setup has been optimal, and that with everyone available, we are as good as we should be, but still. 5 players are new and haven't played much (or at all, in Yoro's case), and at least 3 players have missed an unbelieveable amount of games in Malacia, Mount, and Martínez. That's at least 8 signings
However, he can be criticized for Onana and Amrabat.
Why did he buy a technical goalkeeper, just for him to move to an approach that totally concedes control and possession, and goes vertical as soon as it's possible when his team wins the ball?
Why did he buy a double-pivot defensive midfielder, only for him to be used at left-back or as a lone #6, and only get like 5 games as a double-pivot DM all season? It's not a coincidence that Amrabat's best games came in those 5 games as well.
So it has been a mess. Awful decisions from the club as well, ten Hag okaying some of those awful decisions, misusing the players he signed, misusing some of the players he already had at his disposal IMO, etc.
Imagine what would've happened if Rashford doesn't have a great season in 22/23, or that we don't have a Mainoo or Garnacho in the youth ranks?
Overall, the ambition to back him was definitely there from the moment he was appointed, and under both the Glazers and Ineos so far, but he hasn't exactly had a good squad, full of his own players available, up until arguably now, because now we have good squad depth and just a few injuries, so the improvement has to happen very soon.
Crazy how Slot and Maresca don’t need 3 years
Gets said every season about whichever new manager has a good start.
Then they're sacked 18 month later.
2? Try 11.
Why can't he be criticised for Antony? Forget the fee. Just signing him at all.
Or Mount. Again forgetting his injury status. Just not needed, doesn't fit in the team. As most fans said at the time.
Still think we'll win today by virtue of home advantage and being slightly less shit.
He can be criticised for Antony, but we weren't going to sign him until the Glazers personally got involved with our recruitment after the opening defeats vs Brighton and Brentford in August 2022.
Disagree on Mount.
Antony wasnt needed when we signed him as we needed to sign a 20-30 goal a season striker with that money rather than a right winger, Antony did win us the FA Cup last season though.
Remember Mount was dropped last season before the injuries started because the midfield with him and Bruno wasn't working.
8th last season and a poor start to this season. Finished last in the CL group last season and now a draw against Twente. Do you think we have a reasonable chance of reaching top 4 this season? We will have a clearer picture after the Spurs and Villa games. I do not rate ETH as a top manager.
Most fans predicted that it wouldn't work, but not our top manager...
Sancho is the latest humiliation for him. Every piece of information available to us at this point screams that ETH has been a massive failure as our manager. He hasn't improved a single player and players have actively got worse under him.
I think ETH knew Mainoo was ready even before signing Mount, so my belief is that Mount wasn't brought in to start 50 games for us as an advanced #8 next to Bruno, ahead of Casemiro at DM. He was brought in to be an important player, but not an always nailed-on starter at #8. Whenever he's been fit to play, I think he's been often used by ETH, so I don't think this opinion is that far-fetched.
Also, he wanted de Jong to play the same position one year earlier, who's very different to Mount, and much more similar to Mainoo. Meaning that I don't think he ever envisioned a Mount type being his first-choice #8.
Also, Mount makes us way better out of possession. His pressing intelligence, energy, work rate and discipline is by far the best in the squad IMO.
I honestly think ETH is shit at transfers. And thank goodness INEOS has addressed that by putting a structure in place for future talent spotting and transfers.
Which is why I will no longer use transfers as a factor for discussing ETH’s performance, however terrible it may have been in the past.
The only thing that matters is how we play and the results. We have started the season poorly so far. The loss against Liverpool had highlighted the same tactical deficiencies that our team exhibit last season. At the same time, our season’s narrative would be much better had the strikers finish off the chances. The only thing I’m not sure about is how much of RvN’s influence is that in improving our ability to create chances. If there is no visible improvement to our playing system I think it would be wise to just cut our losses with ETH and appoint RvN as interim until we can get a good manager.
Or we could somehow end up even worse off with Southgate.
You seem to have a caveat for almost every poor signing that somehow means it wasn't on ETH. Speaking to things like the above that you can't possibly know. Or that ETH had no intention of signing Antony. How do you know this?
We can only comment on what we know.
Mount was signed and straight away went into the team next to Bruno. But as almost every fan predicted, it wasn't working. Mount was benched(not for Mainoo). Then injured.
Regarding transfers, I think ETH was correct in identifying Eriksen, Malacia, Martínez, Mount, and Onana as players who are good enough to play for United and to improve us, with all of them being long-term investments too, other than Eriksen. It was also a good decision from him to okay the Hojlund deal. However, Casemiro and Antony are great examples to how panic can make football clubs do dumb things.
I do agree with your paragraph about the results and performances. I think ETH will go with van Nistelrooy taking over as interim, if the performances are bad, and results don't improve either. However, the performances have improved on last season in my opinion, except the Liverpool game.
Where did I say he didn't want to sign Antony? I said that the transfer wasn't going to happen before the Glazers decided that it was okay to overpay for him. Before that, we weren't going to pay up for him and he was going to stay at Ajax. But he was obviously a target for ETH.
Also, does Mount coming in and starting in one position guarantee that there was never any other plan for him, and no competition planned in his position either? I don't think so.
He signed Eriksen, wanted de Jong, wanted Rabiot, and made Mainoo a starter as soon as he could. Four #8s who are totally different to Mount. Also loaned Sabitzer and wanted Gravenberch originally when Eriksen got injured. So that's 6 players he signed/wanted/promoted that disprove your theory that it was always going to be Mount (or another player with his profile) as our mainstay left sided #8 if he was healthy.
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We're at a similar level to Tottenham. Both clubs have had a crap 6 months of PL form. Tottenham do score goals though, we don't score, but also don't concede much.
I do think the game will match well for Tottenhams strengths. We'll have to come out and dominate the ball at home and we're under pressure to get the win. Tottenham can sit back, win the ball in midfield and counter. It actually plays into their strengths.
Our hope is to win 1-0, if it becomes a high scoring game we're boned.
If we lose the next two PL matches to Spurs and AV which is likely, I think we might sack him. Top 4 would already be almost impossible and the new owners wouldn't be able to ignore the failures.
It's a good thing he's being credited with signings that fans have generally been 'ok' with, but its the club that signed those the same fans question.
The hoops people jump through to defend the guy...
I was told by @2 man midfield to jump in here from time to time to remind you guys how horrible it is to watch Tuchels style of football. Watching paint dry would be a lifechanging event compared to the football he sets up his teams to play.
50% of the time at United. With no mitigating factors and well on the way to repeat the same finish this year
Do you really think that this season we've been terrible to watch?
I would completely agree about last season and even as one of his prime defenders it was horrendous to watch.
This season I don't think that's remotely the same from the eye test.
Yes I do think we have a reasonable chance of top 4. Even if we beat spurs and villa I don't think the picture is that clear either but yes generally I do think we stand a good chance.
Its fine to have a view that Ten Hag isn't the right man for us, given last season. But to say his standard is midtable just because he finished below expectations once in his career is also bollocks.