Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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Shark said:
Will we? Seriously think about it and come back to me.
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Tomorrow we will win. Ten hag always does just enough to keep himself going on and a win tomorrow probably buys him another month

Don’t think we will beat Mourinho in Turkey though. Players won’t be up for it
 
devilish said:
Patience is indeed needed but in difference roles specifically to the sporting director one. That's why SJR said 'they only started working in July'. Football had changed alot since the 80s and the manager role had been seriously dumbed down. The days when CEOs didn't even know how much salary rival managers were paid are over. These days many CEOs had made their bones in the football world. Then there's the sporting director who take care of the most 'brain' intensive roles (vision, transfer strategy, making all departments work together in an efficient manner). Meanwhile the academy is also made independent from the first team and given its own aims, its own budget and its own people to lead it.

Modern managers focus mostly on tactics and morale. However even in these two areas they are hugely aided. There are set piece coaches who takes care of set pieces, goalkeeper coaches who take care of goalkeepers, assistant managers with huge CVs who aid him in training, technical directors who take care of the technical stuff and help the transitioning of academy players to first team, data analysts who spoon feed the coaching staff with tons of information about the team and the opposition and an army of medical people and psychologists who help him choose the fittest players and to keep morale up. It's nowhere near to the big role SAF had in the 90s were he was the head of the football pyramid with a clueless Edwards being the head of the business and with Sir Bobby acting as the voice of reason between the two.

I am not suggesting that head coaches (cause that's what they are these days) shouldn't be given time. Tactics are sometimes difficult to understand and implement especially if those who brought the head coach in were stupid enough to hire someone whose philosophy goes completely against the strengths of the squad. However it shouldn't take years either. We had zero progression despite having an almost Dutch speaking team. Surely the likes of Onana, De Ligt, Martinez, Mazraioui, Eriksen, Antony and Zirkzee don't need years to understand ETH's 'game'. Same can be said about players he either promoted (Mainoo, Garnacho etc) or he brought in (Casemiro, Ugarte etc). Yet what we're witnessing is the same old injury crisis (with persistent rumors regarding ETH's heavy handed training), the same tumescent style of football and the same diabolical form both in the EPL and in Europe. To add insult to injury we're now reverting to Ole ball with Evans and Maguire which is hilarious considering that ETH had spent so much on that defense to bring his own men in.
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I agree. Well put. I just want to add that also an intelligent and capable manager can contribute immensely to the long term project of the club, ie. transfers and strategy - even if they don’t have the last say. Again, look at Brentford and Frank where there’s clearly a beneficial dialectical relationship between manager and club.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
He has won two trophies and sees that as success. Didn't just winning cups get Big Ron the sack because we weren't competing for the league title?
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That’s so hilarious when he also babbles on about the team needing time, injuries and all that. You can’t have it both ways - either you think it’s a process and you’re evaluated on progress, or you think it’s about short term results. Though I never think it’s the latter, if that’s what ETH wants us to judge him on he really needs to get some results really quick
 
DOTA said:
Score predictions for tomorrow say most people think we'll get the job done. Definite divide there between the views of the majority and the tunnel-visioned pessimism that threads like this cultivate.
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The team playing like dogshit and serving up a series of shit results for over a year contributes far more to pessimism amongst the fan base than a thread on Redcafe to be fair.
 
Roboc7 said:
There is rarely an idea time or scenario to select a manager, they made a mess of it and are now paying the price.

If anything we kept our manager for the sake of it, bringing in someone else would not have been for the sake of it. They chose to go with a manager who was very likely to be favourite for the sack very quickly and who has little credit with players, fans and media.

INEOS could start from scratch, ETH couldn’t and when he almost inevitably carried on as usual it’s straight into a crisis that was as predictable as it was avoidable.

They made a big mistake in the summer, now they need to own the responsibility and consequences of it. Mistakes are going to be made but it’s about getting enough right and correcting mistakes quickly.
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There's rarely an ideal time, but there could be a time that's highly not ideal. The summer in which we were still rebuilding the football department was, at least for me, that sort of time.

I'm not sure who would have made the appointment in the summer because even if Berrada and Ashworth would have been involved, it could only be behind the scenes. And the new manager would have come into the club that's still in a state of flux. It would have lowered his chances of success as well.

So really, I don't think there was anything ideal we could have done in the summer of 2024, one way or the other. Therefore, I'm guessing they were hopeful that with the right signings and a lot less injuries, ETH would at least justify keeping him at the job for another season in which the new people could get into their roles, stabilize the club and if needed - plan for a new manager later on.
 
He seems extremely confident that there's been absolutely no thought of replacing him. In fact, it sounds like there's been a lot of confidence shown in him to the point where he comfortable to chastise and take the piss out of journalists for suggesting he could be sacked.

To me these are really bad signs that our club is not being run in the right way. The likelihood is that they're somehow happy with this clown in charge and it'll take a lot (more) for him to get the boot.
 
Difficult to see us winning tomorrow. Will just be more of the same of what we saw before the break and the last 18 months. Same manager, same players, same performances.
 
DOTA said:
It goes great with a dash of lemon juice.

It is however the case I believe. Last I looked just over half of the respondents said they think we win tomorrow!
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A majority thinking we're more likely than not to beat Brentford at home is hardly a good barometer of faith in a manager.
 
The only scenario I can image is that the club has decided to part ways with ETH but that the manager they want won’t be available until summer. Apparently, Amorim has a release clause that activates.
 
spwd said:
They're doing a shit job because they won't ask him Wtf he's drinking thinking everything is fine. He deserves every bit of aggro he gets from everyone including the press if they deservedly tore him a new one.
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I’m pretty neutral on Erik. But do find it amusing that he’s getting all the stick for taking the free pass they’re giving him.

If I’m being asked an easy question, I’m going to take the easy option when answering!
 
Amir said:
There's rarely an ideal time, but there could be a time that's highly not ideal. The summer in which we were still rebuilding the football department was, at least for me, that sort of time.
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The ideal time would be before buying many more players that are supposed to fit a system that isn't showing after over two seasons.
 
Zed 101 said:
LVG and Mourinho were very much not at their peak, and neither Moyes nor Ole could possibly be considered the best in class at their peak, actually ETH is the only manager post SAF you could actually point to and say we went for one of the hottest properties in terms of a manager.

The issue I have with your opinion (which I understand and to which your are of course entitled), is that yes the results have not been good enough, you can point at bad stats and yes that is disappointing, but for me the biggest issue is the performance level, in his first season after the terrible start ETH reverted to an improved version of Ole-ball, and we had some good games, but the last 10 games of that season were a struggle, and the final v NU was awful barring the goals, the second season I could point to a couple or three decent performances (including the fa cup), this season we see no improvement in any department, the system that ETH persists with is just not working and hasn't been working since he came, the only time we do anything is when he reverts to Ole-ball, and yet despite the obvious flaws in the system being obvious to everyone and having them pointed out publicly you can guarantee that v Brentford at the weekend we will see the same shite again.

So my issue is, and why I want ETH to be replaced ASAP is there is zero progress, in fact we are generally worse than when we fired Ole, at least under Ole I could not see us finishing 8th and potentially lower with a negative goal difference 2 seasons running, (don't get me wrong I am not saying that we should have Ole as our manager), ETH is making us actively worse, this squad is easily capable of pushing top 4 but ETH has us playing like bottom 4, and I am fed up of hearing trust the process when after all this time we can see there is nothing to show from it.
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I think it's fair to say, though, when Jose and LVG came in, expectations were quite high for them to succeed. At that time, who else was out there available that would have been better in class? I do agree with you that they were past their best but they were still very good quality managers with a wealth of experience.

Results have been awful there's no defending the results nor the league standings at all. 14th at this point of the season is dreadful. The problem I think when it comes to tactics is teams too easily have a plan to beat us or drag out the game for a draw. Every manager knows more less what the other manager is planning but for a big club like United they are too easily breaking us down. It baffles me, they were able to beat City in a high stakes game at the cup final and then they play against much weaker opposition and they turn dreadful.

Like you said to me, you are entitled to your opinion and I understand where you're coming from.

All I can say is, I'm also sick of hearing the word ''process'' so I am just going to say game plan. I really hope it starts working soon. I think we both agree on that.

My biggest issue is something that it doesn't matter who the manager is. The basic fundamentals the players are struggling with and if you're a professional footballer playing for United, I'm sorry but you can not put that on the manager. My point being, until players use the fundamentals properly I don't think it matters who the manager is. This has been the same thing since Sir Alex left.
 
Did he really say we won last season - maybe you forgot?

Oh my god please I can't take it anymore
 
The only reason it might be okay to be 14th as the manager of Manchester United is if you are playing a team full of 20 year olds and under building half a team for the future, or if you're a new manager who needs a few games to get going.

Neither of these are even close to true for ETH. Long past sack time now
 
Ekeke said:
The only reason it might be okay to be 14th as the manager of Manchester United is if you are playing a team full of 20 year olds and under building half a team for the future, or if you're a new manager who needs a few games to get going.

Neither of these are even close to true for ETH. Long past sack time now
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Agreed but I would extend it to if you are build a highly promising new core. This isn't against these players but if you plan your season and the near future around Bruno, Casemiro and Rashford then you don't deserve time because you clearly chose short term options that have never shown the ability to elevate a team to the desired level.
 
DSG said:
I feel like in a perfect world, this amount of patience is preferable. In a perfect world, you could hire a cab driver off the street and they would win lots of titles. Unfortunately, this is a far from perfect world. There is no guarantee that time is the only reason Ten Hag didn’t win a major trophy. In fact, time has proven to actually negatively correlate to success and results with Ten Hag. So, it is infinitely more probable that he is not the right man for the job.

Frankly, we were spoiled with SAF and we need to understand that he is the exception and not the norm. Even the best managers don’t stay in their position for over two decades. “Finding the next SAF” is a mentality that has hurt us more than it has helped us. The top managers deliver results pretty quickly.

Giving Ten Hag more time and money are resources that we can invest in a manager who MAY be able to deliver. Not guaranteed of course, but we have to try because this is the game we are in. Otherwise you might as well close down the club if you aren’t mentally equipped to face the never ending challenge.
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It's not a perfect world but comparing to Ten Hag as if a taxi driver could do it is kind of funny but ridiculous. I get what you are saying, though! ha

I do agree. Ferguson's tenure was an exception and the norm. The only thing I will reiterate on is United's majority of success came under two long term managers, and Scots! Maybe we need Moyes' again! (Joke).

It makes you think, though, is that a coincidence (two long term successful managers with most of clubs success) or is there something to it?

Nothing in life is guaranteed. Your guess is as good as mine, mate.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Yeah, he's in full self-preservation mode. We'll play like utter dog shite and scrape a win. It's so predictable.
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Your positivity is most welcome. Well, positive in the sense that we'll finally gain a win since Barnsley.
 
Amir said:
There's rarely an ideal time, but there could be a time that's highly not ideal. The summer in which we were still rebuilding the football department was, at least for me, that sort of time.

I'm not sure who would have made the appointment in the summer because even if Berrada and Ashworth would have been involved, it could only be behind the scenes. And the new manager would have come into the club that's still in a state of flux. It would have lowered his chances of success as well.

So really, I don't think there was anything ideal we could have done in the summer of 2024, one way or the other. Therefore, I'm guessing they were hopeful that with the right signings and a lot less injuries, ETH would at least justify keeping him at the job for another season in which the new people could get into their roles, stabilize the club and if needed - plan for a new manager later on.
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Amir said:
There's rarely an ideal time, but there could be a time that's highly not ideal. The summer in which we were still rebuilding the football department was, at least for me, that sort of time.

I'm not sure who would have made the appointment in the summer because even if Berrada and Ashworth would have been involved, it could only be behind the scenes. And the new manager would have come into the club that's still in a state of flux. It would have lowered his chances of success as well.

So really, I don't think there was anything ideal we could have done in the summer of 2024, one way or the other. Therefore, I'm guessing they were hopeful that with the right signings and a lot less injuries, ETH would at least justify keeping him at the job for another season in which the new people could get into their roles, stabilize the club and if needed - plan for a new manager later on.
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All they’ve done by keeping ETH is waste more time, more money, brought more instability and made their jobs even harder.

The idea they are buying themselves time and it’s helping them stabilise the club by keeping ETH is flawed. It’s has the opposite effect and it was a poor decision which leaves them now having to stick with someone who has been struggling for 18 months, making do with an interim or having even less choice of a replacement.

They messed up, it’s by no means terminal for them and they’ll get lots more wrong I’m sure. But they had an opportunity to avoid this and should have seen it coming.
 
Garnacho Libre said:
It's not a perfect world but comparing to Ten Hag as if a taxi driver could do it is kind of funny but ridiculous. I get what you are saying, though! ha

I do agree. Ferguson's tenure was an exception and the norm. The only thing I will reiterate on is United's majority of success came under two long term managers, and Scots! Maybe we need Moyes' again! (Joke).

It makes you think, though, is that a coincidence (two long term successful managers with most of clubs success) or is there something to it?

Nothing in life is guaranteed. Your guess is as good as mine, mate.
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I don't know if I understand your question but I would see it as luck more than coincidence, in the sense that United stumbled on two of the greatest managers ever but the reality is that it's not the fruit of a sound process otherwise they would have quickly replaced either of them which didn't happen. The Edwards Family needed 18 years to actually replace SAF.
Now there is one organization in Sport that somehow follows a process that saw them get successful long term head coaches one after the other without fail since 1969 and that's the Pittsburg Steelers, 3 managers and they all won the SuperBowl.
 
golden_blunder said:
As you say time will tell, but for me, keeping ETH for longer than necessary is damaging to the club.

We are 14th in the league, following on from last seasons disastrous campaign. Only a matter of time before the players give up on him. The majority of fans already have. Players are getting run into the ground. He is going to kill Mainoos potential.
When do sponsors start getting in the ear of INEOS? There is so much negativity around the club, when it should be a time of excitement.

The mist would lift the minute he goes. Hope would flourish again
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Pretty much where I’m at with triple emphasis on Mainoo.

Don’t think I have ever been this apathetic toward a season or manager; just feels like a complete waste of time, and a ruinous one at that.
 
Roboc7 said:
All they’ve done by keeping ETH is waste more time, more money, brought more instability and made their jobs even harder.

The idea they are buying themselves time and it’s helping them stabilise the club by keeping ETH is flawed. It’s has the opposite effect and it was a poor decision which leaves them now having to stick with someone who has been struggling for 18 months, making do with an interim or having even less choice of a replacement.

They messed up, it’s by no means terminal for them and they’ll get lots more wrong I’m sure. But they had an opportunity to avoid this and should have seen it coming.
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The most important thing for me over the last few months was getting the new people in and building the new structure. The rest can happen later. Part of the thinking is that those new people can make good decisions when selecting a new manager, so why hurry and select a new one when they can only be partially involved at best?

But had we gotten rid of ETH and brought in someone new when we were not ready to make the most in-formed decision over the identity of the new manager, and also not bring him into a ready set-up when it comes to having a CEO, a DOF and the rest of the new structure, we might have found ourselves in the same situation quite soon. I don't think that United of the summer of 2024 was a great place for a new manager to come in, even if he was good and suitable.

Keeping ETH was a risk, but I think that under the circumstances, keeping him for a while and then letting him go would probably be less harmful than bringing in someone else and then having to replace him as well. Or sticking with him even if he's not doing well just because he's new.
 
DSG said:
I don’t like the word “judge’ either. He may be an absolute disaster as a manager, but an incredible human being. Like Gandhi, for example, probably couldn’t coach the team to execute a high press, but he was an admirable human being.

But, you added a vice versa in there that caught me. If we can’t judge whether a person is likeable by their press conferences and also cannot by how they are in person, there really isn’t much left, is there? I agree that an interview is more or less a press conference though.
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Gandhi was not a good man… let alone admirable. Please don’t pivot to Mother Teresa…
 
Von Mistelroum said:
He seems extremely confident that there's been absolutely no thought of replacing him. In fact, it sounds like there's been a lot of confidence shown in him to the point where he comfortable to chastise and take the piss out of journalists for suggesting he could be sacked.

To me these are really bad signs that our club is not being run in the right way. The likelihood is that they're somehow happy with this clown in charge and it'll take a lot (more) for him to get the boot.
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He might be bald but he's not Professor X to be fair. He will be ignorant to the thoughts and discussions on his position that may or may not be taking place above his pay grade. If/when it is decided he's going it's likely he'll only know a matter of hours before the rest of us.

He isn't dumb enough to not realise his position is shaky to say the least. He's just putting on a brave face for the cameras.
 
It astounds me how people still take answers at press conferences at face value
 
While he's not doing a great job, I feel the media have been unfairly relentless on his case.

Every fecking week he's asked about his job credentials. There is no rest.

He isn't the only manager that has fecked up at United.
 
VP89 said:
It astounds me how people still take answers at press conferences at face value
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I see this said a lot but, why not? It's the only chance he has to communicate with fans. Somebody with a bit more intelligence would use the opportunity to get people on side. He's there answering the questions anyway, so why not use his time more productively?

He's the only coach I know that is continuously abrasive in his answers. You'd think he'd want the fans in his corner but he just winds up more and more people.
 
VP89 said:
It astounds me how people still take answers at press conferences at face value
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Personally never cared about press conferences, before or after matches. Because there's nothing a manager or a player can say that matters when they actually play. Who cares what has been said if the team loses, draws or wins? It doesn't change the result of the match.

Only care about press conferences before matches, because of FPL(injury news) and that's about it.
 
Fortitude said:
Pretty much where I’m at with triple emphasis on Mainoo.

Don’t think I have ever been this apathetic toward a season or manager; just feels like a complete waste of time, and a ruinous one at that.
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That just about sums up how this entire season will probably go.
 
pocco said:
I see this said a lot but, why not? It's the only chance he has to communicate with fans. Somebody with a bit more intelligence would use the opportunity to get people on side. He's there answering the questions anyway, so why not use his time more productively?

He's the only coach I know that is continuously abrasive in his answers. You'd think he'd want the fans in his corner but he just winds up more and more people.
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Why not? Managers don't say it how it is for very obvious reasons.

Managers that tend to be frank and give an honest assessment don't last very much in the job. Managing yourself carefully among the media in both good and bad times is essential to the role. No one should be bothered about what is said unless they are talking about injuries (for the case of the fixture), or slagging off players or slagging off owners (this gives a red flag that the harmony isn't there).

Finding him abrasive is subjective. There are pockets of fans who will hate him from 90% of the possible answers he could give.
 
DOTA said:
Score predictions for tomorrow say most people think we'll get the job done. Definite divide there between the views of the majority and the tunnel-visioned pessimism that threads like this cultivate.
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You will probably find that many "tunnel visioned pessimists" as you call them will expect a few wins here and there from a team built with hundreds of millions against dross like Brentford at home. Hardly a proper way to judge the mood.

But I'm sure you know that but wanted to sound a bit clever. That's ok.
 
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