You've made something up that no one has said, I think you just need to own that.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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The cheek of his comment considering last season on here people got warned and banned for being "negative" towards ETH. Moreover, some of the staff thought it funny to censor B@ld fraud. Yet now there's a hate campaign towards him and his coping mates? Nonsense.
Well I'm being name called in this thread and people are making up things that I never said. So you work it out.
Southgate surely? He wants time off, Ratcliffe likes him and so he's willing to wait, plus he saves some of the payoff writing off this season and keeping EtH in place.
Nobody is name calling you or making things up.
Yes, they are.
Literally today if you read the posts.
Absolutely correct.
That autocorrect actually predates Ten Hag and isn't a sympathy vote.
Either way, for everyone: cut out the personal nonsense and get back to posting about Ten Hag. More posts in this conversation and they'll be warned and deleted.
Well one option would be to go with Ruud for the rest of the season. Another would be to make Amorim an offer he couldn't refuse. Just sitting and watching things slide for an entire season seems highly unlikely when you have an entire footballing structure above Ten Hag reliant upon (and in many ways accountable for) his performance. The thing is, we just don't know what was agreed in the summer with Ten Hag, how could we? They may (for instance) have given him assurances that they would give him the first 10 games to allow the new signings to bed in - that would have sounded fair enough back in the summer wouldn't it? Back then the notion of sticking with him and backing him with signings and then sacking him after 7 games would probably have felt unthinkable, however our current form is dragging things into this territory. You don't get to be as rich as Ratcliffe is without being ruthless as feck, you think he's going to want to sit at Old Trafford and look like an idiot if things don't improve very rapidly? The idea that he would spend an entire year very publicly negotiating to buy a hugely expensive chunk of football club in the city that he comes from and then be content to watch that investment go from bad to worse over an entire season without taking any action just seems to stretch the bounds of credulity.
I would literally put money on him being gone within the month. The only scenario I can see where he is still here is if our results are exceptional during that period. History has shown us though that once things get to this kind of point it is nigh on impossible to turn the ship around - it seems to seep into the players and maybe subconsciously (or consciously in some cases) they are ready for a change as well.
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It's set up for him to get the boot after getting beaten by Mourinho next week. That'll be 2 games wasted by the board.
Christ I hope not. I'm hoping for Amorim
This whole 'he has x number of games to save his job' is always baffling.
If we win 4 matches, draw 3, were undefeated, but only take 15 out of 21.
And even then we could still be somewhere like 9th going into december. How does that even make sense
I know its just a headline, but then again, it seems like the FA cup win (one match) saved his job.
Yup, and as a consequence of that, it's gotten to the point that a draw at home or a narrow away loss where the opposition goalkeeper made a few saves is usually perceived by our fans as a positive result.
Yet, United fans think the players are rubbish and not good enough for top 4. I have had posters comment saying... we should expect and accept losing to Liverpool and Spurs 3 - 0 and losing to Brighton because they are tricky...
Like you say, Brighton with a change of manager, playing players that wouldn't make the United squad, harder fixtures than United are way ahead of us.
If people think the players we have are not good enough for top 4... I will say one thing. Go check how Gerrard had Villa playing and what people were saying then to 2 years later... similar group of players but looked at in a completely different light.
Regardless of what agendas people have with players in our team, they are good enough if coached to finish in the top 4.
Not sure why people think he's going now.
Any decent manager is going to want a fresh start, so its summer if you could persuade someone like Zidane I would think.
A change now would almost certainly mean southgate in January.
As bad as ten hag has become, I do not think this would change anything, we would just be poor in a different way. I'm also not sure ineos will risk the backlash of appointing him.
Any decent manager is going to want a fresh start, so its summer if you could persuade someone like Zidane I would think.
A change now would almost certainly mean southgate in January.
As bad as ten hag has become, I do not think this would change anything, we would just be poor in a different way. I'm also not sure ineos will risk the backlash of appointing him.
Be respectful - last warning
New
Obviously he’s on shaky ground but tentatively being kept on. A lot can change if he doesn’t start clocking up wins. These are the fixtures up to end of the calendar year.
Brentford H
Fenerbahce A (Europa league)
West Ham A
Leicester H (league cup)
Chelsea H
PAOK H (Europa league)
Leicester H
Ipswich A
Bodo Glimt H (Europa league)
Everton H
Arsenal A
Notts Forest H
Plzen A (Europa league)
Man City A
Bournemouth H
Wolves A
Newcastle H
Now in the absence of updates there is little to discuss. Some of you are filling this space with endless circular arguments. This creates a toxic thread for everyone else. I would suggest that anyone engaging in that asks themselves why they are doing it and are they prepared to lose access to at very least this thread, perhaps the United forum or ultimately Redcafe itself? Repeat offenders will not get warnings - this is your warning. They will be removed.
Brentford H
Fenerbahce A (Europa league)
West Ham A
Leicester H (league cup)
Chelsea H
PAOK H (Europa league)
Leicester H
Ipswich A
Bodo Glimt H (Europa league)
Everton H
Arsenal A
Notts Forest H
Plzen A (Europa league)
Man City A
Bournemouth H
Wolves A
Newcastle H
Now in the absence of updates there is little to discuss. Some of you are filling this space with endless circular arguments. This creates a toxic thread for everyone else. I would suggest that anyone engaging in that asks themselves why they are doing it and are they prepared to lose access to at very least this thread, perhaps the United forum or ultimately Redcafe itself? Repeat offenders will not get warnings - this is your warning. They will be removed.
So you're getting at the point I was originally making, that he's got some sort of assurances or something, that he is untouchable for a certain period at least. That could be a season for all we know. If you were ETH then what would you have done when Ineos came to you after interviewing other coaches and asked you to stay? You'd want some assurance that you have a certain amount of time where you can turn it around. We just don't know what he'll have asked for or how long they'd be willing to give him.
Regarding the second point, yes you are right. But SJR seemingly isn't making the calls now. Rightly or wrongly. Even recent reports said he wanted a change but others resisted.
I find it extremely unlikely that after publicly pursuing other managers during the summer the board would have given Ten Hag assurances that he was safe for a whole season?! No club in the world would do that, even if they'd secured the best manager in the universe.
I do think they might have agreed that Ten Hag deserved some time to bed the players in, but we're talking maybe 3 months (which we're still inside) rather than a season. And crucially, there's no way that this would have been some kind of binding contract stipulation - unless things change quickly he will be toast. If the Glazers were in charge then I'd agree that anything would be possible as we know that they were only really interested in profitability rather than sporting excellence, but Ratcliffe and Ineos have paid a billion quid to secure the remit and responsibility for improving things on a sporting basis - hence all of the appointments they have made like Ashworth, Berada and Wilcox. Why would they undermine all of that by giving some kind of crazy commitment to supporting a manager who was already on decidedly shaky ground at the end of last season? It makes no sense whatsoever.
I don't actually think he's lasting until May regardless of results, I've been saying for weeks I think it'll happen in November. But they'll let things get bad enough that the next manager will have a mountain to climb for top 4.
If that happens the next manager should not be expected to get top 4, at which point it makes no sense to sack ten Hag. I think he's getting full season, and personally I'm also relatively confident he will start next season with us.
I mean this makes no sense at all. The idea would be that you would have appointed somebody who had the potential to take United to the top again and he'd have had the 'free hit' of the rest of the season to lay some foundations. If you just wait out the rest of the season cos 'nobody else will be able to finish top 4 this season now' then you are also wasting a portion of next season. Also, you have a new guy coming in in the summer and wanting a whole new cast of players. Personally I'd like to see somebody else come in and get our current bunch of players playing to the best of their abilities before spunking a whole new wad of cash on the next batch.
Why would you ever believe that ten Hag will be getting the full season, regardless of his performance? This notion is bordering on self-harm now amongst some posters!
Because all the evidence we have from our current leaders is that they are willing to be very patient with ten Hag. Both the extension last Summer and keeping him now despite poor start. I think they are playing the long term game with him, it’s just something fans are reluctant to accept because of how poor we’ve been.
That is also his narrative. He’s adamant that it’s a long process, he’s changing the culture, there’s a plan and that they are all on the same page.
He clearly has no long term future at the club, after what happened in the summer it was clear he is just seen as a placeholder for the season. I imagine they would like him to last the season but they’ve shown at Nice they sack managers and ETH must be on the brink so November does seem like a likely time for him to go.
From the piece:
“But of immediate concern to Ten Gag is Saturday's game”
Ten Gag indeed
If he was going to be sacked this season, he would have already been sent packing. He is staying until the end. Whether that is due to some sort of plan for the summer (i.e. replacing with someone in particular) or not is anyone's guess. The way it was handled during this summer doesn't really suggest the former. But with Tuchel off the market, and seemingly not even contacted, the pool of currently available candidates is dire, to say the least.
It would be comical, a sort of bad joke, if he ends up being replaced by the man he replaced. But it would be on par for the course, so not really surprising.
But why were they publicly flirting with other managers if they are so sure about the one that they have got?
I don't pay much attention to Erik's narrative. I expect the sporting directors above him have tried to create an environment in which he is most likely to be successful (i.e. offering support and stability), but this whole 'having a shared vision for the club' comes unstuck if there is no visible improvement on the pitch. He's not even their man, so there's not even the sense that might cling on to him because sacking him would be evidence of their own mistake. All those highly paid guys, fresh in their jobs, are relying on ETH to perform and get the best out of the expensive signings as his failure is ultimately their responsibility. Zero chance they just sit meekly by for months and let ETH make them look like idiots.
The evidence says the opposite though, they tried to get rid of him in the summer, failed to back to speak up about him at every opportunity, opted to keeps his extend his contract by a year rather than agree a new one. You don’t go from that to sticking with someone for years, especially when he’s doing a terrible job.
He isn’t the man for the long term, he just hasn’t been sacked yet.
See, the thing is that I'm 99% sure what will happen is this:
International break over, we keep under-performing for a few more weeks.
Then he's finally sacked in late November - or whatever.
And if that does happen, I won't be happy (for being right in my pretty obvious prediction). I will be...whatever. Same shit again, type of thing.
I don't want that, I really don't.
International break over, we keep under-performing for a few more weeks.
Then he's finally sacked in late November - or whatever.
And if that does happen, I won't be happy (for being right in my pretty obvious prediction). I will be...whatever. Same shit again, type of thing.
I don't want that, I really don't.
Honestly, I don't take anything that man says at face value. He's proven to be deluded re: what happens on the pitch, interactions with journalists, etc. No reason to think that doesn't extend elsewhere.
I think it would be helpful if people shifted their lens when thinking about how this is being approached. Managers have been, for a long time, at Manchester United, a singular appointment. You import a coach, his staff (largely), his philosophy, and seemingly to a large degree, his transfer targets. This is why we have lurched from one diametrically opposed appointment to another. A possession coach, to a defensive coach, to a laissez faire counter attacking coach etc.
The purpose of the appointment of Ashworth, Wilcox and co, is to move away from this and have an overarching methodology of playing and recruitment that coaches largely adhere to, rather than shape. Erik is the bridge between those two eras. It’s likely they are attempting to conform him to a club driven methodology, whilst carrying the baggage of his previous autonomy.
What this means is that the next appointment is going to be quite elucidating in terms of how we intend to play in the long run, it also has a lot of significance. Given the multi-year picture this holistic approach necessitates, I don’t find it as odd as some that Ten Hag is still in a job. A much bigger revolution is going on behind the scenes.
I find it enormously frustrating here is still here, and believe fervently that he should have been gone in the summer, but I am not surprised that now the season has started, that we are not quick to pull the trigger.
The purpose of the appointment of Ashworth, Wilcox and co, is to move away from this and have an overarching methodology of playing and recruitment that coaches largely adhere to, rather than shape. Erik is the bridge between those two eras. It’s likely they are attempting to conform him to a club driven methodology, whilst carrying the baggage of his previous autonomy.
What this means is that the next appointment is going to be quite elucidating in terms of how we intend to play in the long run, it also has a lot of significance. Given the multi-year picture this holistic approach necessitates, I don’t find it as odd as some that Ten Hag is still in a job. A much bigger revolution is going on behind the scenes.
I find it enormously frustrating here is still here, and believe fervently that he should have been gone in the summer, but I am not surprised that now the season has started, that we are not quick to pull the trigger.
I think they went through that process because being new to the club they wanted to court their options and see what was out there. ETH proved to be their best option, probably impressing them with his long term vision or something, and they went with him. I think they were going to give him a longer deal but were not able to agree on removing the veto, hence triggered 1-year extension to start with.
They supported him with £200m worth of signings including two of his former players and another Dutch talent which indicates at least some trust in his ability to turn us around.
Maybe we're trying to create our own little competition to keep people tuning in, the "will he or won't he survive the next 3 games" tournament.
He clearly didn’t impress them because they were offering his job to other people. He kept it by default and nothing since then will have convinced anyone to suddenly believe he deserves more job security than any manager in the league.
The fact Berrada made it clear the decision to keep ETH was nothing to do with him is pretty telling as well.
If there was anything there that might...click.
If there was any reason to believe he was on the right track - only beset by ill fortune, injuries, and so forth.
Then sure, yes.
But as it stands - what sort of straws are we supposed to be clutching at?
If there was any reason to believe he was on the right track - only beset by ill fortune, injuries, and so forth.
Then sure, yes.
But as it stands - what sort of straws are we supposed to be clutching at?
So you don't think we could tempt any of those we talked with in the summer? Not Tuchel, Frank, Di Zerbi? You'd hope they didn't all turn us down or we're in bigger trouble than we realise.
The only straw left to grasp is the idea that INEOS actually have an amazing plan that will either unlock the genius of Ten Hag, or they're waiting for a certain coach for another 12 months.
Reportedly being lined-up for City
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