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Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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60 mins vs palace?
I will get behind them with all my heart and passion. Until they lose.
We're reached Top Red stage again. If history is anything to go by at least it means that Ten Hag will be gone within about a month.
Correction; 60 mins vs Palace where we still didn't manage to score or win the game.
We've played 11 games this season including cup games and community shield. We won 3 (Fulham, Southhampton, and Barnsley), drew 4 (Crystal Palace, FC Twente, Aston Villa, and Porto), and lost 4 (City, Liverpool, Brighton and Tottenham). That's a win rate of 27%, a PPG of 1.27, and a goal diff of +4 (thanks to Barnsley).
If we look at across all games last season, starting with the Wolves game on 2023-08-14 and ending with the Final against City on 2024-05-25, our win rate is 48% (25/52), our total goal diff is 3 (
), and our PPG is 1.6.Last season was pathetic, the start of this season is even more pathetic. I feel like I'm making the same post over and over, but we've been terrible for the last 65 games, and we're at one of our lowest points right now under ETH.
Third season in..... aaaaany minute now!
If INEOS cant be bothered, why should the fans. feck this.
I think there have been a couple of games this season where our general performance deserved a better result than what we got, but our attack just isn't firing (which does come back on ETH to some extent, but not completely). Whereas last season (mostly in the first half of the season) we actually fluked quite a lot of results that we really had no right getting, so finished significantly higher than we really deserved. It's the kind of thing that normally evens out over the course of the season, but last season it ended up working in our favour quite heavily whereas this season so far we've been on the slightly unfortunate side.
Basically, last season we deserved to finish 14th-15th. This season so far I feel we probably should be about 10th or 11th. Yay, progress!
Looks like we’ll have to wait a few more weeks. Let’s hope Ruud is ready or those Carrick rumours are true. Atleast he plays good football.
I dont think he's being hard done by much
He's getting to vacation amidst a professional crisis, not many get that luxury when underperforming.
If he ends up getting sacked during or after, he'll get a massive pay-out, if not he gets to keep a job that's out of his depth.
Either way, he really doesn't have it all that bad in the grand scheme of things especially in this climate.
Okay I see, that's why I wanted to know what you had in mind. I share most of the things that you listed but that's why I fell in love with United not why I love the club today because if I'm being honest I am firmly in the till death do us part portion. Most of these things aren't true today, they don't define the club in 2024. To me there is an historic/romantic answer and today's truth each would lead to two different feelings.
They were arguably the best team in the world, what’s not to like?
Oh, oh, always love myself some hypothetical nonsense. Let me do this too!
- We were just a Garnacho open goal miss or a couple of Bruno one-on-ones misses away from securing a 3-0 victory against Fulham.
- We were only a Maguire hesitation on a simple clearance and a couple of very freakish offsides away from 2-1 win against Brighton.
- We were a Garnacho shot off the bar or a Bruno effort rattling the crossbar away from winning over Crystal Palace by 1-0 or even 2-0.
- We were a Bruno free-kick hitting the bar away from taking a 1-0 win against Aston Villa.
This is too easy!
I assumed people meant for our opponents.
Ah yes. And we’ve only got the joint most clean sheets.
I just don't get this reasoning that people put forward, in regard ETH staying, that it will cost the club £17m to get rid of him.
Surely they'll lose a lot more than that finishing mid-table and not qualifying for the CL? What's the minimum a club makes just getting to the group stage these days?
Surely they'll lose a lot more than that finishing mid-table and not qualifying for the CL? What's the minimum a club makes just getting to the group stage these days?
Cynical much!
My answer would be much along the same lines though I can't really explain why, I made that choice when I was about 4-5 years old, much to the dismay of my City supporting Dad and Granddad
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Assuming that things continue as they have for the last 18 mths and things go more south, and then we do end up binning off ETH at the end of this season, then surely in Sir Jim's eyes (as hes delegated all footballing decisions) the position of his superteam of Ashworth, Wilcox et al also becomes untenable. Which makes me wonder why the effing ell would they risk their reputations with the ongoing shitshow with ETH.
So because arteta had good start in his 3rd it's okay, despite dropping off later in the season. And even though ETH has had a poor start but has 31 games to recover its too late?
In his first year ETH beat Liverpool Arsenal Spurs and City. Then beat City and Liverpool to win the fa cup, so not sure where you are getting we are not capable of beating bigger teams from. We are the very definition of being able to beat any team but lacking consistency.
And to be explicitly clear, the point isn't that because one manager came good after a period of time it means another will. The point is that both took over mishmash squads with huge magnitudes of problems, both on and off the field, which needed to be rectified. That takes time.
There is no guarantee that with enough time ETH will be successful, but without time any manager almost certainly not succeed.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they are a troll. Maybe it's just as simple as that - they don't agree with you.
Thanks for sharing this, really interesting . No that doesn't reflect well, fair enough. It hasn't been good enough.Here is a graph I made a few days ago, of "points per game" averaged over 10 games, for Manchester United since Ten Hag took over, and Arsenal since Arteta took over:
There are moments of better and worse form, but over time, a direction emerges.
Now is the first time I feel like we have balanced squad. I'd like to give that one season, or more than 7 games at least, to see what they can do.
It's possible there is no big mystery or ulterior motive, maybe they just don't agree with your outlook.
Their age is irrelevant, managers develop and peak differently.
I agree about the money. What we've spent under ETH for what we've got is not good enough. However with transfers out of his hands now it is redundant. Those decisions are not the managers now and won't be moving forward.
I agree that arteta has to get over the line. The comparison comes from (as written above) the situations they came into and how much overhaul was required. That was never going to be quick or easy. Not mention compounded by unprecedented injuries last year. The biggest change from those numbers is between years 3 and 4. Did arteta do anything differently, or is it a culmination of a settled and cohesive squad, with the young players developing being able to execute better.
If you are going to judge a manager over a season, then give him the season.
I keep harping on about it but the profile of the squad is so young. Hojlund Garnacho Diallo as front three have an average age of 21. They are going to be inconsistent and that is going to reflect in our performances and results. That is saka/martinelli of 2 years ago.
We are still playing without a leftback with Shaw/malicia to come back. Deligt Mazzroui and Ugarte are still settling in yet Onana has 4 (the most) clean sheets. There are positives there.
For me the chronological answer was that as a kid I was mesmerized by Giggs and loved the narrative around Beckham, Scholes and Neville. I was maybe 6 or 7 years old then I would watch all the VHS or magazines concerning United and fell in love with the pre SAF history of the club.
There's a difference between performances and results, in the sense that you can play well and not get a result or play terribly and get a lucky result. Normally over time results will even out with some lucky and some unlucky, but not always. Last season was one such, where we banked up a lot of results in the first half of the season that we didn't deserve but never had many unlucky results to even them out.We've played 11 games this season including cup games and community shield. We won 3 (Fulham, Southhampton, and Barnsley), drew 4 (Crystal Palace, FC Twente, Aston Villa, and Porto), and lost 4 (City, Liverpool, Brighton and Tottenham). That's a win rate of 27%, a PPG of 1.27, and a goal diff of +4 (thanks to Barnsley).
If we look at across all games last season, starting with the Wolves game on 2023-08-14 and ending with the Final against City on 2024-05-25, our win rate is 48% (25/52), our total goal diff is 3 (
Last season was pathetic, the start of this season is even more pathetic. I feel like I'm making the same post over and over, but we've been terrible for the last 65 games, and we're at one of our lowest points right now under ETH.
We're playing a bit better in general this season, or at least in some of the games. We haven't been as open, we've had a bit more control...basically what we're seeing is the team not playing well as opposed to the completely suicidal tactics of last season. Perhaps the more accurate way of putting my view across is to say that as bad as we have been this season, we were somehow even worse last season.
They were happy enough to even give him another year on his contract hence I don’t think he was really that close to being sacked (even if they courted other coaches).
I think they simply bought into his long term vision talk and will now persist with him for a long time with no regard to results because at the end of it they will think we can become a top 4 club under him. He’s also brought the expectations down so much that even minor improvement will be perceived as significant.
I was of the same view last year and ended up being correct about him staying. I think there are few coaches better than him at promoting himself and talking the talk about how much he knows about tactics and how successful he is. I am also sure he thinks he’s done great here, as he has not been shy to express.
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As you would expect. You do your job until you're told otherwise. Not that it will get to that stage but this did give me flashbacks of Conte taking Chelsea's preseason despite it being clear to everyone that he was going to be sacked. I don't think it's a forgone conclusion and I am expecting ETH to stay for now but even if he goes, the behaviour from ETH is normal.
Yep. Depressing stuff.
We've seen this before, haven't we?
And if history really is anything to go by, we'll see the ETH die-hards show up again when the next guy turns to shit and becomes a legit target for harsh scrutiny:
"Heh! Ezza ten Hazza was a wizza(rd) in his first season!"
("Kinda anyway. Better than this fraud/clown.")
And...so forth.
(Let's hope it doesn't happen. Let's hope we actually have turned a page. Let's hope the people in charge aren't idiots. Let's...hope...)
Last season was rock bottom borderline relegation form for the most part. The only way was up from there and it seems as if we have gone sideways
Ratcliffe obviously wants his own manager and a fresh start under him, but he’s been out voted by Omar and Ashworth. Says it all when Ratcliffe refused to back ETH when he got asked if he as faith in him
Here is a graph I made a few days ago, of "points per game" averaged over 10 games, for Manchester United since Ten Hag took over, and Arsenal since Arteta took over:
There are moments of better and worse form, but over time, a direction emerges.
I appreciate the time you put into this to illustrate where we're headed under Ten Hag.
Down the shitter.
This makes no sense.
Good post and response, and I think that’s where some of the disconnect comes from, as there seem to be a section of fans that seem to still see the club having everything that he described initially, while others like myself think many of those things have eroded over the past decade and are fed up with the lack of progress in trying to bring them back. And then the pompous attitude of “well I’m a true supporter because I’ll always applaud our players and manager at OT” starts to come into play.
I genuinely think he is behind Pep the safest manager in the league. I could probably see the likes of Arteta or Emery getting the boot before we even think about binning the Dutch bald genius.
With most managers a poor run of 15-20 games would probably put them under pressure, with some less. With him it wouldn’t even matter because we’ve had so many embarrassments with so little success and he’s still rolling on.
With most managers a poor run of 15-20 games would probably put them under pressure, with some less. With him it wouldn’t even matter because we’ve had so many embarrassments with so little success and he’s still rolling on.
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it’s so funny watching logic go out the window and people just wetting the bed over their own inventionsWhat? What is hypothetical nonsense? Did Zirkzee's goal against Fulham not make it 3 points gained, instead of 1? It's fact that we got 3 points because of his goal. The Onana save obviously is more debatable but I think most would agree that game shifted from us being outplayed and down potentially 1-0 to Onana saving the penalty, it giving us a jolt of life, then 2 minutes later de Ligt scoring a header and 5 minutes after that Rashford scoring. Onana's penalty save in mine and a lot of other's opinion was the start of a chain reaction response that saw us score 2 goals.
The stuff you posted is mainly Garnacho and Bruno missing. Which they have continually done, so saying "if only Garnacho and/or Bruno scored here" is more hypothetical nonsense than the point I was making. Every match this season you could look at and say Garnacho and/or Bruno should have had a goal. My favorite example of this was one you posted. Garnacho hitting the crossbar and it falling to Bruno with no one around him and the keeper out of poistion and him hitting the crossbar and it going over for a goal kick.
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Should be brought out everytime the ridiculous 'he could do an Arteta' claims are made.Here is a graph I made a few days ago, of "points per game" averaged over 10 games, for Manchester United since Ten Hag took over, and Arsenal since Arteta took over:
There are moments of better and worse form, but over time, a direction emerges.
Worst manager since SAF.
They both weren’t in charge in the summer when Ratcliffe had a chance to sign his own manager. So why didn’t he do it then?
Probably the glazers that seems to slow it down. Ratcliff have been seen enough of this sht.
He spent over 600 mil euros for "rebuild".
Now we have situation where neither of his signings isn't working. If Onana isn't gk, he would be benched probably too.
So, what is the plan now? Replace "his" players for new ones? You can't spend 600 mil euros and in third season be in situation where all your signings are on the bench. That means you wasted 3 years.
Now we have situation where neither of his signings isn't working. If Onana isn't gk, he would be benched probably too.
So, what is the plan now? Replace "his" players for new ones? You can't spend 600 mil euros and in third season be in situation where all your signings are on the bench. That means you wasted 3 years.
It would be something if James "Layoffs aficionado, rule bending extraordinaire" Ratcliffe, told to his employees, "Oh you got me on that one, the rules are the rules."
It's purely hypothetical to suggest we should have 4 points with no wins based on those scenarios. Using the same hypothetical reasoning with the scenarios in my earlier post, I could just as easily argue that we could be sitting on 15 points and that everything isn’t so bad. Do you see where I’m going with this?
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