Keeping a manager who finished 8th with a negative goal difference on the basis of one off game is something not to like, don’t you think so ?
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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It wouldn't have just been that though. These aren't stupid people, they would have discussed many things.
It seems now sacking is very obvious to us fans, but behind the scenes maybe there's some good reasons as to why we can't do it just yet.
The big plan stupid pleb can’t understand, thanks god we have our rich overlords to think for us.
Glazers had a plan too…
I would have sacked him after the cup final personally.
I’m just responding to the post which questioned why we should be happy about beating city
Don't lose perspective in your rush for drama. They have more data than you. It's arrogant to presume we are as well placed as them to mage a decision. Similarly they would probably be best deferring to you in whatever field you work in.
I'm sure they do, but keep in mind this excuse was also made repeatedly over the years to justify every baffling decision Woodward and/or the Glazers made
And this isn't being talked about anywhere near enough; the damage is not just short-term and "football people" should be well concerned about that, and so too should the financial folk, as this is lowering the potential worth of assets.
Not addressed to me, and part of your response is fair, but until when we go with Ineos know what is doing.
Similarly, Woodward, Glazers and Murtough had far more data than us, so I guess they really didn’t do a poor job and we should have just trusted the process and defer to them. Right?
Not sacking him was a small club reaction, like beating city is a big deal in itself.
It’s not. Being consistent in the league and competing regularly for big trophies is.
I'm not using it as an excuse. Any perspective or context that encourages calm is seen as a defence of someone or something. It's tedious. Read the hysterical post I was replying to.
What possible significant data do you think they could have that goes against all the data that is out there? Other than financial.
Ok, thanks for the condescending response. You’re all ETH in then. Can you explain me why ?
I am too stupid to understand. And don’t give me the corporate response telling nothing concrete and taking me for a fool.
Explain me why football experts who know much better then me are keeping a manager who is doing badly for a long time ? Explain me why the choose to keep him because of a one off game while most of the plan like me could see the writing on the wall back then.
So fans can’t celebrate a win against local rivals, in a cup final?
Well they had longer and eventually made multiple visible mistakes. Ineos are 8 months versus the 18? years of the Glazers. And INEOS have been very proactive in terms of players and structure. So with the data to hand I don't think comparing the Glazers to Ineos is fair.
Also what good does hysterical panic on our part do? We've had weeks of posters on a loop of outrage with zero data. The match going fans, the owners, the players, the new management, the manager. Zero data encourages scattergun hysteria.
Yeah, it’s like experts are denying us the right to think. We know nothing so we should just shut up and believe. We have no brain or logic.
Most things in life require common sense above all.
They really must have manager targets not available at the moment and not wanting Tuchel or any interim manager. It’s not like they seriously believe EtH will be outstanding if given more time?
I'm not. That's my point. I've said his time is up. But unless I'm foaming at the mouth I'm seen wanting him to stay.
If you're not thinking that's solely on you buddy.
Yes they can celebrate. I did.
But fans shouldn’t sign petitions on the evidence of one game. That’s knee jerk.
My comment was about keeping the manager because of one win, which was an absurd and small time decision after the worst season we ever had in the Premier League.
Much quieter today than it was yesterday
Is it established that he’s staying then? I imagine he is but if they had decided to sack, I don’t think they’d have rushed that communication until they’d sorted everything with Erik
Is it established that he’s staying then? I imagine he is but if they had decided to sack, I don’t think they’d have rushed that communication until they’d sorted everything with Erik
I don't think INEOS truly understands the situation if they are taking this long.
Our fanbase has a fundamental problem, in that, when it comes to managers, due to our history of success with SAF, we are naturally passive as a group. A lot of our fans feel its disrespectful to be vocal in advocating for the sacking of a manager, no matter how bad they are. Ours fans and pundits who represent them, will blame every and anyone, before pointing fingers at the manager, this includes the owners.
Despite the feelings of our fans, I have never bought into the notion that the dealings of the Glazers had as much impact, outside of their appointments, on the success of our team on the pitch as people would like to state. Finances were usually made available and the managers always had a big say in who we hired and didn't. What's happened now is that we've understood as a club that manager's can't be trusted with the additional responsibilities that we placed on them, however this doesn't mean that a more serious manager couldn't have assumed those duties and performed well.
More than anythings, our play on the pitch, has been terrible over the decade. In that decade, we've played mostly teams that have inferior squads to us, yet, even in these games, our style of play and patterns were usually non-existant. Good managers, who did not have the backing in the transfer market, would have been able to showcase their quality in these games against inferior competition. An example of this is Arsenal under Wenger. They could beat Everton 5-0 away from home, but didn't have the quality to go toe to toe against the likes of Bayern or Man City. None of our managers have shown that type of quality, yet as a fanbase, we've always given them the time, space, money and support against players to ensure that success should have been feasible. I do not believe that these managers needed such a sophisticated layer of management above them to play decent football on the pitch. That was always just another excuse that fans and the club used to mask managerial failure.
I'm saying this to say, INEOS are going to be the next target of the fans' ire if they don't act fast, even if they sack ETH. The fans have been conditioned to act like this, and part of INEOS' job is to ensure that they make proactive moves to ensure the success of the club. As a club, we need them to be able to make hard decisions, and push us to to modernity, both within the club and with our expectations of managers and players. The media has already shown their willingness to do this by suggesting they hung ETH to dry by meeting other managers in the summer. That's simply a taste of how unfairly they will be blamed if they don't make strong active decisions.
Our fanbase has a fundamental problem, in that, when it comes to managers, due to our history of success with SAF, we are naturally passive as a group. A lot of our fans feel its disrespectful to be vocal in advocating for the sacking of a manager, no matter how bad they are. Ours fans and pundits who represent them, will blame every and anyone, before pointing fingers at the manager, this includes the owners.
Despite the feelings of our fans, I have never bought into the notion that the dealings of the Glazers had as much impact, outside of their appointments, on the success of our team on the pitch as people would like to state. Finances were usually made available and the managers always had a big say in who we hired and didn't. What's happened now is that we've understood as a club that manager's can't be trusted with the additional responsibilities that we placed on them, however this doesn't mean that a more serious manager couldn't have assumed those duties and performed well.
More than anythings, our play on the pitch, has been terrible over the decade. In that decade, we've played mostly teams that have inferior squads to us, yet, even in these games, our style of play and patterns were usually non-existant. Good managers, who did not have the backing in the transfer market, would have been able to showcase their quality in these games against inferior competition. An example of this is Arsenal under Wenger. They could beat Everton 5-0 away from home, but didn't have the quality to go toe to toe against the likes of Bayern or Man City. None of our managers have shown that type of quality, yet as a fanbase, we've always given them the time, space, money and support against players to ensure that success should have been feasible. I do not believe that these managers needed such a sophisticated layer of management above them to play decent football on the pitch. That was always just another excuse that fans and the club used to mask managerial failure.
I'm saying this to say, INEOS are going to be the next target of the fans' ire if they don't act fast, even if they sack ETH. The fans have been conditioned to act like this, and part of INEOS' job is to ensure that they make proactive moves to ensure the success of the club. As a club, we need them to be able to make hard decisions, and push us to to modernity, both within the club and with our expectations of managers and players. The media has already shown their willingness to do this by suggesting they hung ETH to dry by meeting other managers in the summer. That's simply a taste of how unfairly they will be blamed if they don't make strong active decisions.
Are you serious? You think you have access to all the significant data? Wow. So you don't see a need for those expensive executives around the place. That explains a lot.
That’s you telling me to believe the board because they are experts and I am not. So on the basis of what you said, you are the one blindly believing every decision the board take because they are experts and have more data then me.
Honestly mate, I think it is fine to have an opinion that they have fecked up big this decision in summer, and are doing the same now. This idea that suddenly everything is going to click, which to be fair, the majority of the posters who posted in the general thread had until recently, makes as much sense to me as that of Antony suddenly becoming a world class player.
No idea if hysteria and panic helps, but I also think that unconditional support towards clearly wrong decisions also does not help. We have been the most patient fanbase in the world, and I do not think that has been reflected towards success. Other similar sized clubs would not have accepted 1/10th of our fanbase has accepted (just look at the treatment of Koeman at Barca who compared to ten Hag showed far better results, and football).
After 11 years of pure mediocrity, Ineos was seen as the savior and then they lead us to the worst season in EPL history, only to reward the main culprit with another year on his contract, and unsurprisingly (except to some people who act like grown ups in the general thread), we are now having an even worse season.
Like in case of Glazers, Ineos have everything to prove. In fact, so far they have been quite a bit worse than Glazers ever were, results wise.
Rant over.
The problem with being seen as a laughing stock of a club is that no serious manager will want to take over.
EtH was on the up before he came here, for one reason or another he's failed to live upto the billing, but coaches have to see the complete mess we've been with planning for the past 11 years and pause before even entertaining an offer from United.
Why would someone like Alonso come here when his stock is on the rise? I certainly wouldn't as in all likely hood, your career as a manager will come to a screeching halt!
We've put the final nail in the coffins of a few different managers these past 11 years.
EtH was on the up before he came here, for one reason or another he's failed to live upto the billing, but coaches have to see the complete mess we've been with planning for the past 11 years and pause before even entertaining an offer from United.
Why would someone like Alonso come here when his stock is on the rise? I certainly wouldn't as in all likely hood, your career as a manager will come to a screeching halt!
We've put the final nail in the coffins of a few different managers these past 11 years.
As you said if you choose wisely and we choose a manager whose style of play is similar to ETH's (but better) they wouldn't need to replace barely anyone at all. When such drastic change is done, most managers are reasonable and they understand that Rome wasn't built in a day. Take for example Juventus this season (Motta to replace Allegri). They spent 95m euros
Of course that opinion is fine. I just think after 11 years of pure mediocrity (and that's understating it) a quick fix was pretty much impossible.
No, I'm not telling you anything except to stop treating the forum like a maniac on cheap amphetamines would a stressball.
And I'm not believing anything they say, because they haven't said anything. A lot of what exists here to you is in your fevered imagination.
I wonder how did Chelsea found managers where they sacked so many of them, including all time greats during their peak, and young promising managers (AVB was at least sa highly rated as EtH).
I have said many times, but United’s manager job is one of the easiest in football. You need to be very awful for the fanbase to turn against you, you can relegate the team twice and Old Trafford will still sing your name, and your awful results will still not be enough to get sacked until 6 months (or in EtH’s case, a year) before it is clear to everyone with half a working eye that this will end only one way. Even then, lots of fans, all the media and ex-legends will call for you to get more time.
No expectations, no deliverables (especially under Ineos), great salary. We won’t struggle finding managers any time soon.
Yeah, but you are saying nothing but we are unable to understand because we don’t have the knowledge. Your argument is only based on authority of some high placed corporate.
Could tell you that Aristotle believed the Earth is the center of universe and you should not question it because he is a great ***********. It’s the same kind of argument. Worth nothing unless you explain us what are this hidden data and why they will keep the guy based on it.
I just seen the article on the BBC that says Blanc declined to comment when approached by Simon Stone. Now obviously he's under no obligation to talk but I mean, surely he (or someone else) could have just said yeh he's our manager and we're happy, and then it at least provides some well needed clarity.
They aren't stupid and must realize the size and stature of our club, and how the media and us fans whipping ourselves up into a frenzy for the next 2 weeks isn't helping the players, the manager or even ineos themselves.
I still don't know what to think really, the silence seems to imply that he's staying, but I just can't get my head around why they wouldn't release something just to stop all the headlines and the circus? Like I said if they want to keep ten hag then I think someone needs to at least answer a journalists question on the matter (doesn't need to be a big press conference obviously) because despite how shit we are and how awful I think ten hag is, I don't think having 2 weeks of this is going to be of any benefit to the players or manager
They aren't stupid and must realize the size and stature of our club, and how the media and us fans whipping ourselves up into a frenzy for the next 2 weeks isn't helping the players, the manager or even ineos themselves.
I still don't know what to think really, the silence seems to imply that he's staying, but I just can't get my head around why they wouldn't release something just to stop all the headlines and the circus? Like I said if they want to keep ten hag then I think someone needs to at least answer a journalists question on the matter (doesn't need to be a big press conference obviously) because despite how shit we are and how awful I think ten hag is, I don't think having 2 weeks of this is going to be of any benefit to the players or manager
What are you on about?
There is a very large amount of data available to the public which fans have repeatedly used to demonstrate that we performing very poorly under Ten Hag.
What is this magical secret data that only the club has access to which confounds all of that?
Haha, so tell it straight instead of using false arguments.
But you’re right, ETH is getting under my skin. I should stop here.
I do not think that even with SAF as manager, Pep as his assistant, and Klopp as mascot, we would have challenged for title this season. But some decent football, and a comfortable top 8 finish was the least we should get under any manager who is not completely awful.
Instead, we are closer to the bottom than the top in both EPL and Europa League, and are lucky to be so. We have been outplayed by pretty much every other team except a relegation fodder and a lower league club. At some stage, it is probably fine to say enough is enough, and waste some bits in the Internet.
Ok, tell me what was said at the meeting?
Great post. My feelings too.
What false argument? I've barely said anything.
Fans should celebrate any win, let alone a win in a cup final vs local rival.
On the other hand, professional football execs should not consider keeping a manager who's team results in the league and CL were horrible simply because of cup win.
Yes I'm serious. Like what? Give an example of a piece of data that would be so significant in keeping him.
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